1. What does SSTB mean? See our glossary of acronyms.
    Dismiss Notice

The auto-magic super rZToaster, or something like that..

Discussion in 'DIY' started by rz, Apr 3, 2017.

  1. Joaon

    Joaon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    210
    Location:
    France
    More and more interesting @rz !
    Count on me for the first batch :cool::D
    And congratulations to Mama and you :):tup:
     
    GreenHopper and rz like this.
  2. rz

    rz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    131
    Thanks @Joaon! Whew.. 3 kids.. so.. yeah, had to take a break from the proj for a bit. Between work and fam and as much QA on my V0.1 as I can get, where'd the f'n time go?? I even missed one of my logistic opportunities so now my colleague is here at work with us with a bunch of my electronics back at his place in CA. DOH!. Anyway, more opportunities will come. . patience... must.. keep my ...

    Anyway, we're all loving the lil man:love: He's growing and getting stronger and we're on the road to getting his tof all fixed up soon :tup::tup::tup:

    Meanwhile, QA goes on:brow: This thing just keeps ticking. I love it. thank god for cannabis. And air conditioning. Gotta stay chilled.
     
    Copacetic, Prolusio, Summer and 6 others like this.
  3. rz

    rz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    131
    PCB design wasn't really final, but good enough for me to prototype with, so... I DID IT.

    PCBWay has received your payment.

    :science::worms::D
     
    Prolusio, Joaon, The Beagle and 2 others like this.
  4. GreenHopper

    GreenHopper 20 going on 60

    Messages:
    1,401
    Nice, how's the kiddie doing?
     
    rz likes this.
  5. rz

    rz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    131
    Considering everything, he is doing great! He is VERY fortunate to currently have a balance between the increased pressure in right ventricle due to the VSD, and increased pulmonic obstruction from stenosis. Due to this balance, he is mostly asymptomatic, and has been developing and growing really well. We still have to check his oxygen saturation twice a week and go for a full cardio checkup every two weeks. His surgery is scheduled for 10'th of September and all being well it looks like he will only need one op for now. We are really fortunate to have one of the top hospitals for this just 40 mins away and are confident that we're in good hands. So, we're hanging in :) Tnx for checking up :tup:
     
  6. GreenHopper

    GreenHopper 20 going on 60

    Messages:
    1,401
    That's all great news :tup:so very glad to hear he's well and that he doesn't have to go through too much trauma to get back to 100%.

    Keep on hanging in ;)
     
  7. rabidnz

    rabidnz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10
    Mind blowing work! Please sign me up ! Any idea on ballpark final price? Clearly gonna be more than my M cost ;)
     
    The Beagle, rz and GreenHopper like this.
  8. rz

    rz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    131
    Tnx. No idea on price yet. I have chosen some good component$ and I'm still prototyping some features.. haven't even thought of final form factor (I may get it working well with just two batteries, for instance). So, a little more than the M ;) I think once I have my printed PCBs working I'll report back for some feedback here and work on PCB V.2. Also, I'm not really geared to mass assemble these things, though I'll gladly go through the exercise of getting the PCB's pre-assembled with most components if there is a high enough demand which will make final assembly much easier. Maybe @Pipes will adopt it as a base platform for future versions???hintnudge:brow:.

    Currently, the first (prototype) PCB's have been manufactured and are on their slow way here (to Israel) from China. I made a little logistics mess up with my components order, and they've been sitting at a colleagues house half way across the world while he's been on vacation. He just got home so now I need to get them to me somehow. I worked day and night to get my first proto working before my third kid was born, and have been a bit busy since so I'm fine with things being slow on their way here allowing me to can actually do what I need in the meantime. Once everything arrives I'm sure to get something assembled ASAP... So, don't hold your breath, but I'll def. keep you all updated. Open to discussion / ideas in the meantime..
     
    muunch, Prolusio, marduk and 6 others like this.
  9. GreenHopper

    GreenHopper 20 going on 60

    Messages:
    1,401
    All Sounds good to me fella, slow and steady wins the race :tup:

    Regarding the PCB layout, @phattpiggie has managed to separate one of @Pipes Skeletor's modules so that the battery compartment and the heating tubes exist as two separate components joined by a cable.

    Was wondering if your design offers any potential for a similar form factor?
     
    muunch, Summer, rz and 3 others like this.
  10. rz

    rz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    131
    Technically possible, though a little more cumbersome wiring needed since the IR sensor needs a few extra conductors. Also, since the whole thing may end up a bit smaller than a portside, I'm less inclined to thinking of breaking it up.

    The 'bulk' of the design is the coil and capacitors - these can be arranged inline more or less in the shape of a 18650 cell. Most other circuitry is pretty compact and can be moved around a little on the board. This means the final design can be derived from thinking of a 3 or 4 battery configuration without much additional bulk, eg:

    2 battery design with coil+caps more or less shaped like a battery, so the whole thing wouldn't be much bigger than just 3 batteries in an enclosure, either inline or in triangular configuration, depending on how much other board space I need. Display and button placement is flexible. I've even thought of moving the display, buttons, and microcontroller onto one board, and everything else on a second board. This modularization will help shift bulk around and keep it compact, and make it easier if anyone else would like to design around the whole driving board module..
     
    Prolusio, GreenHopper, Joaon and 2 others like this.
  11. GreenHopper

    GreenHopper 20 going on 60

    Messages:
    1,401
    That sounds cool to me fella, if the device is smaller then I can see that there is no need to separate out the heater from the rest of the unit.

    This is all very cool stuff man.

    I'd definitely love a chance to try one of these out.
     
    Joaon, rz and Vap O matic like this.
  12. b0

    b0 Cloudy...

    Messages:
    1,901
    Location:
    Another spaniard in UK
    Count me in, definitely interested :D
     
    Hogni, GreenHopper and rz like this.
  13. Vap O matic

    Vap O matic Member

    Messages:
    8
    :clap:me too :tup:
     
    Hogni, GreenHopper and rz like this.
  14. Hogni

    Hogni Honi soit qui mal y pense

    Messages:
    1,522
    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Any thoughts about pricing?
    Or did I miss this info?
     
  15. rz

    rz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    131
    Nope didn't miss anything on this slow boat. I'm still a few hardware iterations away from anything I'd send out.

    I still need to build and test my first (ever) PCB design, along with a bunch of relevant experiments on the first board. Then will hopefully be able to finalize form factor and enclosure, some part changes, modify the board design, get prototype 0.2 manufactured, shipped, built and tested..

    Since each board needs a whole bunch of teensy little components soldered to it along with a bunch of hand assembled bits, I'll probably only build one or two at these stages. I think the only way I could get enough of these out is if I get most of the little components assembled along with the board manufacturing, then I could possibly handle assembling a larger batch with just a few extra hand assembled components. This will need a little more design and time before such a production run.

    My family and work are obviously my priorities and they're both currently keeping me busy, so this project is kind of locked up in my patience box. It's probably the coolest thing I've built though, so I really want to keep it moving along. My next goal is to clean up the piles of god knows what that have accumulated on my lab desk :\ so that when I do eventually get the parts for the next step, I'll have the place to work on it. I've received some new OLED displays I could get started playing with too. Also got some glass tubes I need to cut, and the narrower field of view IR sensors arrived :) I've joined in a weekly lecture on machine learning. Really interesting stuff! I need to do homework for that, but fuckcombustion, need to live too :D

    I'd love to be able to send a whole bunch out say, in about a year. I'm not sure how wishful that thinking is though. As for pricing.. dunno.. I hope to minimize the extra work overhead each unit will eventually need, and this R&D is kind of my getaway when I'm lucky, feels dirty to charge for that:science::leaf::brow:. However, it all piles up somehow.. I'd love to keep it under 100$. Not sure by how much though..

    In the meanwhile, anyone not yet in on the induction action should def. check out @Pipes stuff if they can. It's a perfect mate with the VC. :clap:
     
    GreenHopper, Prolusio, b0 and 8 others like this.
  16. Hogni

    Hogni Honi soit qui mal y pense

    Messages:
    1,522
    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    I'm in. I'm missing my PIH so much. I killed it last weekend. Let it stay on my patio desk overnight. I was rainig and it filled my open Skeletor enclosure up to the top with water. Let it dry for 4 days but it seems to be dead. I could cry :rip: :(
     
    GreenHopper, rz and Summer like this.
  17. bhawkins94

    bhawkins94 Active Member

    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    Louisiana
    I look forward to checking in for progress. Looks awesome, recently jumped on lists for a skeletor and portside so looking forward to trying some induction.
     
    GreenHopper, rz and Vap O matic like this.
  18. Hogni

    Hogni Honi soit qui mal y pense

    Messages:
    1,522
    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    It's so awesome you don't want to miss it anymore.
     
    GreenHopper, rz and Summer like this.
  19. marduk

    marduk daydreamer

    Messages:
    633
    Location:
    in the matrix
    Wow, this rzToaster thing is looking pretty impressive. Please add me to your list!

    Since you're soliciting discussion/ideas... How about a SLOW + SET mode where you warm to a lower set temp quickly, ramp up slowly to a second set temp as in SLOW mode, but instead of stopping the process there, hold that second temp for a set number of seconds before quickly heating to a set max temp? The purpose of this mode would be production of big clouds on the first hit...
     
    GreenHopper and rz like this.
  20. rz

    rz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    131

    I currently have three power settings and two modes.

    The power settings are currently a cap on duty cycle (percentage of time that the Induction Heater is actually powered on). Each power mode has it's own PID setting to compensate for the behaviour after fiddling a bit. It's kind of like using single/multi jet litgher. I mostly use the MID setting until the batteries get low and it gets too slow, then I use HIGH. I plan to do away with the max duty cycle limit in these power modes, and improve the PID settings to get the desired faster/slower behaviour.

    The two modes are SET temperature, and INCremental temp. In incremental mode, you set the start temp, and each insertion/removal of an object will increase the set point a few degrees for the next insertion. This allows a slower session with a more flavourful start.

    No point in me temptating with further usage experience yet, it's not fair since it may be a while till I get these out..

    MEANWHILE... I got my first PCB boards in today! In my 'just order them already' moment, I didn't select a cool board color but I did make sure to order LEAD free. Board looks good :) I'm still missing MOST of the components though. That shipment will find it's way to me somehow soon I hope. In the meanwhile I'll start fiddling with the OLED, buttons, coil and IR module bits.. I've already cleaned my desk up a little :)
     
    Squiby, GreenHopper, Prolusio and 4 others like this.
  21. marduk

    marduk daydreamer

    Messages:
    633
    Location:
    in the matrix
    Hmm... there was an earlier post where you had three modes including SLOW, where you warmed quickly to one temp and then increased one degree per second to a max temp. So you got rid of the SLOW mode? Was it not working to your satisfaction or did you just figure that INC was basically accomplishing the same thing?
     
    GreenHopper, Hogni and rz like this.
  22. rz

    rz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    131
    My PID tuning was lacking at the time, and it was a good way to limit the temperature increase rate. Since then I've found that PID tuning and max duty cycle gave me the rate limiting I wanted. This is regarding how fast/slow it gets to a set temperature, and it'll just keep it there till you puff, basically pumping in enough heat to overcome the loss of heat as it spreads into the rest of the VC. I can just leave it there for a few seconds after it's ready.

    The INC feature sets the temp per puff rate. Start low and tasty and end up with full extraction higher temp. It works but I usually keep it in 'manual' - at a set temp.

    Regarding what that set temp is, well, I find it meaningless. For instance, a shiny cap may appear hotter to the IR sensor than a golden cap, so a different temp would need to be set for the same results, so it's hard to know the exact temp without other calibration means. What I find more important and the key feature is reproducibility for a given cap. I may as well just give it a temp range from 1->100 and instead of say 160-220 deg (c).
     
    GreenHopper, Prolusio, Joaon and 3 others like this.
  23. jimt0r

    jimt0r Active Member

    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Oz
    This is sounding good, I'll be interested in one of these too, be it in kit, naked or finished form
     
    GreenHopper, Joaon and Vap O matic like this.
  24. toofluff

    toofluff New Member

    Messages:
    2
    I just want to say how much I love this project and wish you all the best with it! I'm more on the software/firmware side but make electronics too.

    When you're ready to have more of these assembled for you, try DirtyPCBs.com who are pretty great guys and the boards are silly-cheap. I get many of my prototypes boards done with them. They also have a service though called "DirtyBOM" where you can upload a BOM/parts-list with your PCB and they'll quote you and be able to produce 100 or whatever units for small/medium-sized manufacturing. I've done a few runs with them so far and they came out great.

    This is just a suggestion BTW and I don't mean to advertise them or anything, but they're just an awesome service so thought I'd tell you about it.

    You're already doing a fantastic job with this, but if you end up needing any help with the firmware or just a second set of eyes on the PCB's, let me know and I'd be happy to help out. I'm doing machine learning stuff too on the side these days, mainly following the fast.ai youtube courses which I think are great. Recently even built my first PC from scratch in over 12 years to have hardware and not pay Amazon for those hourly instances!

    Keep up the great work!
     
    Prolusio, Summer, Hogni and 5 others like this.
  25. rz

    rz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    131
    Tnx @toofluff , and welcome to FC! :)

    Dirty PCB looks good. I checked out a few places. PCBway worked out well for this specific order (I only need 2~3 boards at this stage of proto, with some upgrades like LEAD-free. So far my BOM is all ROHS except for maybe the OLED.).

    I still don't have most of the parts, though what I do have, I put on - The MCU, OLED, buttons, and IR sensor which all work so far :)

    Click to play YouTube Video


    Top priority now is getting my box of parts over to me somehow..

    (@toofluff) I'm currently using a teensy MCU which is certainly overkill but gets the job down. Once I've built this proto I'll try patching in a simpler/cheaper chip like ATmega328. Staying with Arduino for now since it was easier to get going with all these components and their available libraries. A design change I may take on the HW is to move the microcontroller to underneath the OLED. This will modularize the work+sensor board from the control+user interface board and help reduce size. This would make using the work+sensor module pretty easy for someone to use and adapt to their needs. I'll have to do some tests first of course cause I'm not sure how much interference an induction heater would create for an MCU in certain positions. Kind of why I haven't deviated from my first prototype design much. I first want to make sure the circuit is design well enough, then figure out orientation etc..

    I would like to open source this sometime, though I want it to mature a bit more first. For now I'm enjoying the design and it's challenges and am glad to discuss all aspects.

    I may be able to provide a naked version of this that would require a bit of DIYing to assemble before diving into form factor, enclosure selection/design, etc. That may be a good opportunity to jump on board and see if you can contribute firmware on a more custom-fit MCU. I'd like if anyone with enclosure design experience could jump on board and design a custom case for this thing. If I do all of this stuff it'd take ages before I get to ship a well rounded device. Till then, I'll probably be able to assemble a few prototypes along the way, maybe a small batch, before getting everything ready for larger scale production. I'd love to get this to a point that'll require minimal after-manufacturing assembly (like getting all the SMD parts soldered onto the board in China) since I doubt I'll be able to sit and assemble too many of these on my own. However, I'm hesitant of scaling up production too much, liability wise, business legal wise, etc. I'll have to re-evaluate demand once this matures enough cause it'll be a nightmare to release an induction heater as a product. If I do have to limit production, I'll certainly crawl this thread for commenters for dibs.

    My DIY electronics background (involving SMD parts, at least) took off with some high-end headphone amplifier builds about 10 years ago. I participated in some early testing stages and a bunch of group buys for parts and boards. Back then, there were a few builders who could assemble these DIY projects for a wider market, so providing a kit with board and harder to source components along with a digikey/mouser BOM may just be how this ends up.. build it if you can, or beg someone else to build it for you :p

    Anyway.. enough for now.. gotta get back to work..
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
    Kermitt, Prolusio, Joaon and 10 others like this.

Support FC, visit our trusted friends and sponsors