The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

[Tranquility]

It takes two to tango.

If there is "gridlock" (And, that is a BAD thing.), why is the blame all on one side of the table? What has Obama compromised on? One's idea's against many's. The One must be right.

Let us review.
Article I: Legislature. Makes the laws.
Article II: Executive. Enforces the laws.
Article III: Judicial. Interprets the laws.

If the Article II or Article III people think the law is not correct, they should work on convincing the Article I people to deal with the problem. It is not for the Article II person to declare elections have consequence and assume that it is only his election that mattered and make up new laws and refuse to accept the other side has valid input.

 

[jay87]

It takes two to tango.

If there is "gridlock" (And, that is a BAD thing.), why is the blame all on one side of the table? What has Obama compromised on? One's idea's against many's. The One must be right.

Let us review.
Article I: Legislature. Makes the laws.
Article II: Executive. Enforces the laws.
Article III: Judicial. Interprets the laws.

If the Article II or Article III people think the law is not correct, they should work on convincing the Article I people to deal with the problem. It is not for the Article II person to declare elections have consequence and assume that it is only his election that mattered and make up new laws and refuse to accept the other side has valid input.

This is why I hate political parties.

This is only an issue because it isn't about whether a law is correct or if an idea has merit, it's about arguing for your party and against the other party.

If Democrats wanted to make a law that saved puppies Republicans would cause gridlock to stop it.
If Republicans wanted to make a law that saved kittens Democrats would cause gridlock to stop it.

Who cares about blaming anyone for stopping the progress, both sides are going to blame the other which in turn will simply create a worse gridlock...

The problem is that these people in Congress are worse puppets than anywhere else in our government, every bill comes with a back room deal and every idea is turned into a partisan argument.

"The Democrats"
"The Republicans"

"The Idiots"

 

[cybrguy]

It takes two to tango.

Ahhhh, but it takes many more than two to tango. Someone had to build and maintain the dance floor and the dance hall. Someone had to write and people have to play the music. Someone needed to teach you and your partner to perform the dance.
You are missing a few steps on your tango...

Wait, is that Trumps campaign on the phone? They are still looking for a few good men with very selective attention. Need a gig?

 

[Tranquility]

If Democrats wanted to make a law that saved puppies Republicans would cause gridlock to stop it.
If Republicans wanted to make a law that saved kittens Democrats would cause gridlock to stop it.

Being a "No Party" preference, I have both dogs and cats. (As of the weekend, fish too.) But, I've always assumed the Democrats were more cat-type people while Republicans were dog-type. Are you sure of who is saving what? I cannot believe Republicans don't love dogs more than they hate Democrats. Vice versa as well. (Well, except for the Trump/Hillary=devil people. They'd let the puppies/kitties die. )

Ahhhh, but it takes many more than two to tango. Someone had to build and maintain the dance floor and the dance hall. Someone had to write and people have to play the music. Someone needed to teach you and your partner to perform the dance.
You are missing a few steps on your tango...

Apparently, you've never been in love. The other things mentioned might be nice. They are hardly necessary. In fact, depending on the goals, they detract from the experience.

Wait, is that Trumps campaign on the phone? They are still looking for a few good men with very selective attention. Need a gig?

Are you,

when people use logic?

 

[Silat]

Hillary Rejects Koch Support -- So Why's She Taking Their Lobbyist Money?

It's a tale as old as time with Hillary Clinton:
She says one thing, yet her actions demonstrate the complete opposite...

When pushed by Karl about whether he could see himself supporting Hillary Clinton, Koch hesitated, “Well... we would have to believe her actions will be quite different from her rhetoric, let’s put it that way.”

You thought Hillary was perfect?
She is not.
But she is a damn site better than any righty.

 

[Tranquility]

You thought Hillary was perfect?
She is not.
But she is a damn site better than any righty.

I hope we're not calling Trump a "righty". Many "True Righty's" (tm) are in the #nevertrump camp.

(Some claim righty's are less bullying than lefty's.)

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/152293480726/the-bully-party

Team Clinton has succeeded in perpetuating one of the greatest evils I have seen in my lifetime. Her side has branded Trump supporters (40%+ of voters) as Nazis, sexists, homophobes, racists, and a few other fighting words. Their argument is built on confirmation bias and persuasion. But facts don’t matter because facts never matter in politics. What matters is that Clinton’s framing of Trump provides moral cover for any bullying behavior online or in person. No one can be a bad person for opposing Hitler, right?​

 

[Baron23]

Hi guys - just curious....340 pages in this thread....do we think anybody has changed their initial mind about candidates or issue positions based on all of this wonderful rhetoric?

I live in Washington, DC and after a while all political talk just sounds like yada, yada, yada.

Ok...ding, ding....round 20, go.

 

[TeeJay1952]

@Baron23 It is not about changing minds but rather about expressing oneself. I have thoughts on these subjects and by writing them I can see how they look through others eyes. If you think, then by extrapolation others think. What do they think. Can I understand them? Can I feel their pain, or soar on their hopes? Do we share commonality? Where do we separate and how far?
I wanted Bernie and voted so. Carried my state. I have always held Trump in contempt and am aghast at his rise. I feel the majority of it is people screaming loudly "I am mad as Hell and not going to take it anymore!" I feel HRC
s sins are common, minor and do bear watching but in no way disqualifying.
I hope for better days. But I hope.

 

[cybrguy]

The Meme About Clinton That Won’t Die
by Nancy LeTourneau
October 26, 2016 3:11 PM

Harvard’s Institute of Politics released a poll today with the headline: “Clinton In Commanding Lead Over Trump Among Young Voters.”

A new national poll of America’s 18 to 29 year olds by Harvard’s Institute of Politics (IOP), at the John F. Kennedy School of Government, finds Hillary Clinton leading Donald Trump by 28%. Clinton captured 49% of likely young voters’ support while Trump received 21% in a four-way race. Gary Johnson garnered 14% and Jill Stein received 5%, with 11% remaining undecided. Clinton is also polling ahead of President Obama’s 2012 polling numbers among key groups within this demographic…

49% of 18 to 29 year olds indicate that they will “definitely be voting” in this election, one point higher than the 48% who indicated the same in 2012.​

You would think that might finally put to rest this idea that Clinton is having trouble wooing millennials, wouldn’t you? But that is not what Yamiche Alcindor of the NYT took from the poll.

Hillary Clinton has strengthened her position slightly among young voters, but she has struggled to take full advantage of Donald J. Trump’s rising unpopularity, a new poll shows…

The results show that Mrs. Clinton will have to convince many young people that they should trust her to grapple with some of the nation’s biggest issues.

Mrs. Clinton has had problems attracting millennials throughout her campaign. Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont outperformed her among young voters in the Democratic primary, and many of them are shunning the two major political parties in the general election.​

This is quite interesting. On the one hand, Harvard IOP sees a “commanding” lead for Clinton among millennials with turnout likely to be equal to, if not better than, 2012. On the other, Alcindor looks at exactly the same data and sees Clinton struggling, while needing to “convince many young people that they should trust her.”

That is the power of narrative. Once you buy into the idea that Clinton is having trouble with millennials, it is almost impossible to break out of it. In the back of Alcindor’s mind, she has to do better than a 28 point lead to be successful with young people. Who knows how high that bar is?

 

[Tranquility]

Hi guys - just curious....340 pages in this thread....do we think anybody has changed their initial mind about candidates or issue positions based on all of this wonderful rhetoric?

We're the ill-informed making illogical conclusions based on faulty premises well outside of our expertise concentrated down to a few paragraphs at a time (And, I suspect, some of those take place when stoned.) and you don't think we've convinced anyone? Don't you like Brawndo? Its got what plants crave.

By the way, has anyone in the forum convinced you yet your favorite vape actually sucks? Or, with additional information, any vape you thought sucks is actually great?

 

[His_Highness]

@Baron23 - I changed my mind .... after I lost my mind.

I was an independent until this election and then I heard the sound of Trump-ets. Now I'm a registered dem. Prior to Trump I could be found on this site pissing folks off with my middle ground positions. Sometimes I supported a republican talking point sometimes a democratic one. Surprisingly enough I became a Bernie backer in the end. Now I'm backing HRC.

I think you'll find there are many here who aren't voting for HRC so much as they are voting against Trump. Or to coin another well used phrase.....I'm holding my nose when I pull the lever for HRC.

 

[CarolKing]

I guess you will have to decide what party best fits your important issues in life. Is it the Republicans or the Democrats?

Would you like America to be great again vote for Trump. Remember when it was OK to discriminate against color, race and religion? When it was OK to discriminate against Gays? Let's make abortions illegal again too, shall we? If he's your guy by all means vote for the rich guy that knows how to make businesses work and to lower what the billionaires pay in taxes.

I was for Bernie. He's not running anymore, the next best thing is all your getting. I think we realize what our choices are.

When I hear folks at work and they still don't know who they are voting for? I don't understand what there is to think about?

Edit
I think most of us in the thread have decided who we are voting for. I don't think anything said is going to change anybody's mind at this point. Some of us have been posting since the beginning of the presidential thread back in spring of 2015. I want to thank those that have worked on keeping your anger in check and not posting just to irritate others. I think it was an important factor in keeping this thread open without it being shut down. Thanks to the mods too for nipping things in the bud.

Only 2 more weeks!!!!

 

[Silat]

I hope we're not calling Trump a "righty". Many "True Righty's" (tm) are in the #nevertrump camp.

(Some claim righty's are less bullying than lefty's.)

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/152293480726/the-bully-party

Team Clinton has succeeded in perpetuating one of the greatest evils I have seen in my lifetime. Her side has branded Trump supporters (40%+ of voters) as Nazis, sexists, homophobes, racists, and a few other fighting words. Their argument is built on confirmation bias and persuasion. But facts don’t matter because facts never matter in politics. What matters is that Clinton’s framing of Trump provides moral cover for any bullying behavior online or in person. No one can be a bad person for opposing Hitler, right?​

Yes he is a righty.
His words spout the same agenda as the rest of the right.
He is not an outlier.
That is just a fact.

 

[grokit]

The Meme About Clinton That Won’t Die
by Nancy LeTourneau
October 26, 2016 3:11 PM

Harvard’s Institute of Politics released a poll today with the headline: “Clinton In Commanding Lead Over Trump Among Young Voters.”

A new national poll of America’s 18 to 29 year olds by Harvard’s Institute of Politics (IOP), at the John F. Kennedy School of Government, finds Hillary Clinton leading Donald Trump by 28%. Clinton captured 49% of likely young voters’ support while Trump received 21% in a four-way race. Gary Johnson garnered 14% and Jill Stein received 5%, with 11% remaining undecided. Clinton is also polling ahead of President Obama’s 2012 polling numbers among key groups within this demographic…

49% of 18 to 29 year olds indicate that they will “definitely be voting” in this election, one point higher than the 48% who indicated the same in 2012.​

You would think that might finally put to rest this idea that Clinton is having trouble wooing millennials, wouldn’t you? But that is not what Yamiche Alcindor of the NYT took from the poll.

Hillary Clinton has strengthened her position slightly among young voters, but she has struggled to take full advantage of Donald J. Trump’s rising unpopularity, a new poll shows…

The results show that Mrs. Clinton will have to convince many young people that they should trust her to grapple with some of the nation’s biggest issues.

Mrs. Clinton has had problems attracting millennials throughout her campaign. Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont outperformed her among young voters in the Democratic primary, and many of them are shunning the two major political parties in the general election.​

This is quite interesting. On the one hand, Harvard IOP sees a “commanding” lead for Clinton among millennials with turnout likely to be equal to, if not better than, 2012. On the other, Alcindor looks at exactly the same data and sees Clinton struggling, while needing to “convince many young people that they should trust her.”

That is the power of narrative. Once you buy into the idea that Clinton is having trouble with millennials, it is almost impossible to break out of it. In the back of Alcindor’s mind, she has to do better than a 28 point lead to be successful with young people. Who knows how high that bar is?

Problem with "millennials" is that while they are great at networking online and sharing their feelings about an election, they don't actually show up and vote. We saw this happen during the democratic primaries.

www.google.com/search?q=millennials#q=millennials+don't+vote

 

[Tranquility]

I guess you will have to decide what party best fits your important issues in life. Is it the Republicans or the Democrats?

Would you like America to be great again vote for Trump.

Fair enough. Done.

Remember when it was OK to discriminate against color, race and religion?

The Republicans stood up to the Democrats in those battles then, I suspect they will do the same today.

Let's make abortions illegal again too, shall we?

Could we? That would be great. At least then we won't have to discuss when the 14th amendment attaches to the...things. Discarded tissue or baby should be the question asked long before worrying about the legality.

If he's your guy by all means vote for the rich guy that knows how to make businesses work and to lower what the billionaires pay in taxes.

You think Trump is the candidate of the 1%? Follow the money.

I was for Bernie. He's not running anymore, the next best thing is all your getting.

Other than Carson (Who would not have made a good president.), I think he is the truthiest of the candidates in this election. If it was between he and The Donald, I'd feel the Bern as well.

 

[grokit]

Democratic Pollster: Surveys with Clinton Way Ahead Are Distorted
Says 'I've never seen the media more anxious to call an election over than this one'

Updated 24 Oct 2016 at 6:39 PM

Democratic pollster Pat Caddell says some of the polling he is seeing is biased and overweighted against Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump.

“I’ve never seen the polls so out of whack,” said Caddell Monday on “The Laura Ingraham Show.” “I mean, so not universal at this stage … The tracking polls all show Trump about even … You have the ABC poll, which is a really distorted sample, of course. Nine points Democratic, which has been seized upon to continue to drive the narrative of this election that it’s over. I’ve never seen the media more anxious to call an election over than this one. Usually, they want to say it’s a contest because they get more attention and they get higher ratings — but not this one.”

Patrick Hayward "Pat" Caddell (born May 19, 1950) is an American public opinion pollster and a political film consultant who served in the Carter White House, and he has worked for Democratic presidential candidates George McGovern in 1972, Jimmy Carter in 1976 and 1980, Gary Hart in 1984, Joe Biden in 1988, and Jerry Brown in 1992.

“I’ve never seen the media more anxious to call an election over than this one.”

Caddell was referring to a weekend poll from ABC News that garnered major media attention. The poll showed a 12-point national lead for Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.

The ABC poll found Clinton at 50 percent, Trump at 38 percent, Libertarian Party candidate Gary Johnson at 5 percent, and Green Party candidate Jill Stein at 2 percent.

The poll had a margin of error of plus-or-minus 3.5 percent.

Most surprisingly, the poll had an odd partisan breakdown of 36 percent of Democrats, 31 percent of independents, and 27 percent of Republicans.

LifeZette Editor-in-Chief Laura Ingraham asked Caddell about “oversampling,” which became an issue last week when WikiLeaks unearthed emails among Democrats talking about inflating poll numbers of key Democratic constituencies. The apparent aim was to get polls to show Democrats outperforming reality to boost excitement in the ranks and depress turnout among Republicans.

Caddell said there are some legitimate reasons for oversampling — but added he suspected oversampling this election season is done to slant numbers against the Republicans.

Some pollsters look for Democrats or Democratic-leaning respondents to inflate their numbers, Caddell said.

Caddell says the race is closer than public polls show.

"I think the [presidential] race is about 2 to 3 points," said Caddell. "And with a lot of [voters] floating around ... The volatility in this electorate is higher than everything I have seen at this late date."

 

[CarolKing]

It looks like Evan McMullin is going to take Utah they are saying. Both sides shouldn't count anybody out at this point. It's a race to the very end. With McMullin, if Utah votes for him that does make it harder for Trump.

Anything can happen between now and Nov. 8th. Trump is whining because the press mentioned Hillary was at an Adel concert last night. The media isn't giving him enough good press - poor Donald. He has his own online news station. He can make up the news the way he likes it. He can live in his own universe.

I was watching the guy who wrote one of Trump's books. Trump doesn't have any real close friends he was saying. He knows a lot of people though. I think Trump is a sad and angry person. He was sent off to military school when he was a young man. They said that it had a big effect on him. The rest of the children in the family grew up at home. He was the only one that was sent away. I would imagine Fred Trump was a difficult man to have as a father from what I hear. There is a reason that Trump is such a fractured person.

 

[jay87]

Being a "No Party" preference, I have both dogs and cats. (As of the weekend, fish too.) But, I've always assumed the Democrats were more cat-type people while Republicans were dog-type. Are you sure of who is saving what? I cannot believe Republicans don't love dogs more than they hate Democrats. Vice versa as well. (Well, except for the Trump/Hillary=devil people. They'd let the puppies/kitties die. )

You may be right and if so you're only furthering my point.

Republicans would forgo their love of dogs and block Democratic attempts to save puppies out of partisan principle.

Democrats would forgo their love of cats and block Republican attempts to save kittens out of partisan principle.

 

[GetLeft]

Hi guys - just curious....do we think anybody has changed their initial mind about candidates or issue positions

Not on the Trump/Clinton issue. But I'm here to say that this is where I became decided to vote for Bernie!

 

[Baron23]

By the way, has anyone in the forum convinced you yet your favorite vape actually sucks? Or, with additional information, any vape you thought sucks is actually great?

Not for 340 pages worth. LOL

Remember when it was OK to discriminate against color, race and religion?

HI Carol - I'm older so yes, actually I do. I remember segregation in the south....when most of those states were owned by the Democrat party. I also remember significant elected members of the Democrat party being racists and bigots....Byrd comes to mind initially.

I'm just saying, no...I certainly do not support discriminatory policies, but the sin of that in the past that you mentioned needs to be spread around a good bit, I believe.

Look guys, I'm not trying to squelch the conversation at all. Please, go on for another 340 pages. I'm all about free expression. I was just wondering because it often looks like the same people making the same statements over and over. I'm with @lwien, I think its great that its stayed reasonably polite all this time.

Cheers

 

[Tranquility]

You may be right and if so you're only furthering my point.

Republicans would forgo their love of dogs and block Democratic attempts to save puppies out of partisan principle.

Democrats would forgo their love of cats and block Republican attempts to save kittens out of partisan principle.

I think the Democrats will discriminate against some dogs.

But, I can't see Republican support. I mean, its obvious who to save:

 

[His_Highness]

I don't like HRC or Trump enough to want to go to dinner with either of them. If Trump asked me to dinner I'd be unavailable. If HRC asked me I'd be like....Damn! As long as she's paying but how many times will I have to hear her flip flop on the dinner order and tell Bill to stop staring at the waitresses.... all for a free dinner!

Another way to say it would be....I had to decide between..... the liar who will guard my daughters right to decide what should happen to their own bodies or the liar that I wouldn't allow to be alone with my daughters.....ever.

 

[jay87]

I think the Democrats will discriminate against some dogs.

But, I can't see Republican support. I mean, its obvious who to save:

Typical right wing propaganda resorting to personal attacks in a vain attempt to avoid the issues.

 

[lwien]

New poll..........Clintons lead cut in half nationally. It's now 3 points nationwide....

And, Trump is now leading in Florida and Clintons lead has narrowed almost in half in NH.

Trump's got some momentum going here from this Obamacare fiasco..........

 

[grokit]

Trump's got some momentum going here from this Obamacare fiasco..........

That's part of it; but it also has to be said that killary's wikileaks distraction (trotting out the allegedly felt-up ladies from drumpf's past only reminded voters of bubba's proclivities over the years) really backfired.