The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

ReggieB

Well-Known Member
Yes now I see the beauty of the 'all candidates are the same' position. It is not necessary to take in any evidence about the fitness of any candidate, whether he or she be extreme in their views and positions, whether there is anything in their character or experience which might qualify (or disqualify) them for the job of leader of the most powerful nation on earth, indeed any one detail about the candidates whatsoever - not necessary, as the system is rigged and all candidates are the same. There is a certain hermetically sealed quality about this view of life which must be comforting, much like the hole for an ostrich's head.
Nice try buuuuutt you seem to think that I or people like me haven't taken the time to judge those qualities, I certainly have and always will which is why I always come back to the same position, none of the above are good enough because the system is fatally flawed, you should aim higher, unfortunately you can't because that's not what's on offer. It's never great living between a rock and a hard place.

Adversarial politics will always cause conflicts, which is a shame when these are supposed to be the best and the brightest that could make a difference, they're still fighting each other, life shouldn't be a constant battle and doesn't have to be. The system is flawed and stacked against the people it's supposed to serve, it's divisive.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Adversarial politics is at the very core of the American Democracy. It is the guiding principle on which our whole government rests. It doesn't really matter whether you like the idea or not, I don't see (or in any manner wish for) it changing any time soon. It usually works quite well. At least until one of the parties decides to try and break it...
 

Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
Accessory Maker
Nice try buuuuutt you seem to think that I or people like me haven't taken the time to judge those qualities, I certainly have and always will which is why I always come back to the same position, none of the above are good enough because the system is fatally flawed, you should aim higher, unfortunately you can't because that's not what's on offer. It's never great living between a rock and a hard place.

Adversarial politics will always cause conflicts, which is a shame when these are supposed to be the best and the brightest that could make a difference, they're still fighting each other, life shouldn't be a constant battle and doesn't have to be. The system is flawed and stacked against the people it's supposed to serve, it's divisive.
Adversarial politics, notwithstanding, we could've used a candidate pool with the intelligence, integrity, temperament, and emotional maturity demonstrated by the likes of Ben Carson, Ronald Reagan, Barack Obama, and Abraham Lincoln. Do we know anyone of our generation with similar attributes all rolled into one? I'd like to see political campaigns that demonstrate adversarial positions solely based on qualifications and attacks on ideological principles, not personality and prick size.
 
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Snappo,
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ReggieB

Well-Known Member
Personally, I'd rather see solutions than problems, a change in system and mindset is a big solution to come up with and I'll applaud the people that do it but I certainly won't celebrate a broken system (it's broken all over the world so don't take it as a uniquely american problem, it isn't).
 

lwien

Well-Known Member
I certainly won't celebrate a broken system (it's broken all over the world....

That's because people are broken. We're flawed (ego, greed, etc etc) and so.........we build flawed systems. It's kinda the nature of things, but here in the US, the system is designed to be adversarial. Our founders believed that an adversarial system provides balance but there is no doubt that there can be a lot of pain and suffering in seeking that balance.

The way I see it is that it is a system still in it's infancy and still going through it's growing pains. Of course, the same thing can be said for civilization as a whole, eh?
 

Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
Accessory Maker
That's because people are broken. We're flawed (ego, greed, etc etc) and so.........we build flawed systems. It's kinda the nature of things, but here in the US, the system is designed to be adversarial. Our founders believed that an adversarial system provides balance but there is no doubt that there can be a lot of pain and suffering in seeking that balance.

The way I see it is that it is a system still in it's infancy and still going through it's growing pains. Of course, the same thing can be said for civilization as a whole, eh?
Good perspective! The great visionary, Gene Roddenberry, would have made a Great world leader, with Captain Kirk & Spock riding shotgun.
VDa8WHH.jpg

L4IMGqD.jpg
 

ReggieB

Well-Known Member
After a few thousand years, politics is still very flawed but if there isn't the will for change there never will be change. I wonder if they envisioned a filibuster as a good thing or had the foresight to see the trouble it would cause?
 
ReggieB,

grokit

well-worn member
After a few thousand years, politics is still very flawed but if there isn't the will for change there never will be change. I wonder if they envisioned a filibuster as a good thing or had the foresight to see the trouble it would cause?
Filibusters don't always cause trouble, sometimes they prevent it.
:sherlock: Yes it's imperfect, but as @lwien mentioned so are we.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Without the filibuster the minority would be at the complete mercy of the majority. The filibuster has become wildly overused over the last decade or so, but it is crucial to protecting the rights of the minority. Its use needs to be curtailed, but should not be eliminated.
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
We have really important issues that are at stake in our country. The right for a woman to have an abortion. The right to marry whoever you want. Medical and legal cannabis is at stake too. Protecting our environment which is more global.

Businesses can't go back to the polluting practices of years past and that's what Ted Cruz wants. Even though things aren't perfect sometimes you have to choose between what is worse and go the opposite.

Trump is still tweeting crap about Megyn Kelly. Fox is pissed about it. It just goes on and on. It would be funny if it wasn't so serious.

Edit
Really looking forward to Real Time with Bill Maher tonight.

Edit again - So hilarious Bill Maher called Donald Trump the white Kanye West.:lol:
 
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Say No Go
By D.R. Tucker

I’d like to nominate, for next year’s John F. Kennedy Profile in Courage Award, every prominent Republican who has declared, unequivocally, that they will vote for a candidate other than seemingly-inevitable GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump in the general election—including former New Jersey Governor Christine Todd Whitman and neoconservative writer Max Boot.

Granted, it’s fair to ask why these anti-Trump Republicans didn’t abandon ship years before, considering the wingnuttery that existed in the Republican Party long before Trump’s rise. On the other hand, when it comes to severing ties with the radical right, better late than never.

Do you remember the “Obamacans,” the legions of conservatives and Republicans who declared that Barack Obama, not John McCain, was best suited to become the 44th President of the United States? Christopher Buckley and Colin Powell were the two most prominent names on the list of “Obamacans” who were courageous enough to acknowledge that McCain’s selection of silly Sarah was too sickening to stomach.

The anti-Trump Republicans remind me of those brave “Obamacans.” They also remind me of the Republicans who embraced ex-Republican third-party candidate John Anderson in the 1980 presidential election; while I wish those Republicans had set aside their grievances with President Carter, at least they recognized the radicalism of Ronald Reagan—something a majority of the electorate did not.

I imagine that many of these anti-Trump Republicans were simply in denial about just how pathetic their party had become. Maybe they thought the Tea had cooled off. Maybe they thought there was still some semblance of reason and rationality on the right.

The rise of Trump has been a rude awakening for them. They now realize that in today’s GOP, reason is considered treason. They now realize that the party is so far gone that even Jesse Helms would be branded a RINO if he were around today. They now realize that the virus of viciousness is spreading—and that it’s far more dangerous than Ebola or Zika.

Granted, not all of the anti-Trump Republicans deserve to be considered brave. Former George W. Bush speechwriter Peter Wehner embraced the politics of cowardice earlier this year when he suggested that he would remain neutral in the general election:

Beginning with Ronald Reagan, I have voted Republican in every presidential election since I first became eligible to vote in 1980. I worked in the Reagan and George H. W. Bush administrations and in the White House for George W. Bush as a speechwriter and adviser. I have also worked for Republican presidential campaigns, although not this time around.

Despite this history, and in important ways because of it, I will not vote for Donald Trump if he wins the Republican nomination.

I should add that neither could I vote in good conscience for Hillary Clinton or any of the other Democrats running for president, since they oppose many of the things I have stood for in my career as a conservative — and, in the case of Mrs. Clinton, because I consider her an ethical wreck. If Mr. Trump and Mrs. Clinton were the Republican and Democratic nominees, I would prefer to vote for a responsible third-party alternative; absent that option, I would simply not cast a ballot for president. A lot of Republicans, I suspect, would do the same.
I guess Wehner never heard the words of the late historian and activist Howard Zinn:

I don’t believe it’s possible to be neutral. The world is already moving in certain directions. And to be neutral, to be passive in a situation like that is to collaborate with whatever is going on.
As for the anti-Trump Republicans who will not remain neutral but who will take their votes elsewhere, we should welcome them with open arms into the reality-based community. We should praise their willingness to stand up to the scorn of social media and the abuse of angered allies. We should also respectfully ask them: “Hey, what took y’all so long?”
 

Adobewan

Well-Known Member
Say No Go
By D.R. Tucker

I’d like to nominate, for next year’s John F. Kennedy Profile in Courage Award, every prominent Republican who has declared, unequivocally, that they will vote for a candidate other than seemingly-inevitable GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump in the general election—including former New Jersey Governor Christine Todd Whitman and neoconservative writer Max Boot.

Granted, it’s fair to ask why these anti-Trump Republicans didn’t abandon ship years before, considering the wingnuttery that existed in the Republican Party long before Trump’s rise. On the other hand, when it comes to severing ties with the radical right, better late than never.

Do you remember the “Obamacans,” the legions of conservatives and Republicans who declared that Barack Obama, not John McCain, was best suited to become the 44th President of the United States? Christopher Buckley and Colin Powell were the two most prominent names on the list of “Obamacans” who were courageous enough to acknowledge that McCain’s selection of silly Sarah was too sickening to stomach.

The anti-Trump Republicans remind me of those brave “Obamacans.” They also remind me of the Republicans who embraced ex-Republican third-party candidate John Anderson in the 1980 presidential election; while I wish those Republicans had set aside their grievances with President Carter, at least they recognized the radicalism of Ronald Reagan—something a majority of the electorate did not.

I imagine that many of these anti-Trump Republicans were simply in denial about just how pathetic their party had become. Maybe they thought the Tea had cooled off. Maybe they thought there was still some semblance of reason and rationality on the right.

The rise of Trump has been a rude awakening for them. They now realize that in today’s GOP, reason is considered treason. They now realize that the party is so far gone that even Jesse Helms would be branded a RINO if he were around today. They now realize that the virus of viciousness is spreading—and that it’s far more dangerous than Ebola or Zika.

Granted, not all of the anti-Trump Republicans deserve to be considered brave. Former George W. Bush speechwriter Peter Wehner embraced the politics of cowardice earlier this year when he suggested that he would remain neutral in the general election:

Beginning with Ronald Reagan, I have voted Republican in every presidential election since I first became eligible to vote in 1980. I worked in the Reagan and George H. W. Bush administrations and in the White House for George W. Bush as a speechwriter and adviser. I have also worked for Republican presidential campaigns, although not this time around.

Despite this history, and in important ways because of it, I will not vote for Donald Trump if he wins the Republican nomination.

I should add that neither could I vote in good conscience for Hillary Clinton or any of the other Democrats running for president, since they oppose many of the things I have stood for in my career as a conservative — and, in the case of Mrs. Clinton, because I consider her an ethical wreck. If Mr. Trump and Mrs. Clinton were the Republican and Democratic nominees, I would prefer to vote for a responsible third-party alternative; absent that option, I would simply not cast a ballot for president. A lot of Republicans, I suspect, would do the same.
I guess Wehner never heard the words of the late historian and activist Howard Zinn:

I don’t believe it’s possible to be neutral. The world is already moving in certain directions. And to be neutral, to be passive in a situation like that is to collaborate with whatever is going on.
As for the anti-Trump Republicans who will not remain neutral but who will take their votes elsewhere, we should welcome them with open arms into the reality-based community. We should praise their willingness to stand up to the scorn of social media and the abuse of angered allies. We should also respectfully ask them: “Hey, what took y’all so long?”
Seems they are continuing to look out for their best interests.
Trump winning means they have no control of the office, no different than a Dem winning. I doubt there was any altruistic revelation on their part here, that they're doing this for the "greater good". I imagine if it were one of their own getting Trump's numbers, with these antics, they would embrace him.
All that matters is winning the seat of power.
 
Adobewan,

little maggie

Well-Known Member
A friend of mine read an article- not sure where- that took some of Hitler's speeches and put Trumps name on them. She said they were pretty much the same.
I understand Panama is a good country to move to.
 
little maggie,

kellya86

Herb gardener...
If I was American I would go and put a 20 quid bet on the next president to be assassinated...
I don't think your government will let trump have power for long, if he gets in...
I wonder what the odds are on that???
 
kellya86,
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Yeah, I'm not sure I'd even quote it... ;)

Oooo... Waffles...
 
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cybrguy,

kellya86

Herb gardener...
Congratulations. Your addition to NSA's database has just been raised a notch.

Ha I'm not an extremist nut job, they can check me all they want, we are all entitled to an opinion...

I'm sure your not all nieve enough to think governments don't get rid of people...
 

howie105

Well-Known Member
When the primary medium of communication was mail it got raided regularly by all the black, gray and white hats and people bitched. When phones came around all the hats were still there doing their thing, people bitched and the government responded with lip service. In the here and now guess what, the government continues to invade privacy, lip service has turned to justification the white, gray and black hats are still destroying our privacy and bitching is now pointless. Most folks recognize all this but fewer people get the fact that it took the collusion of all the political parties to get here over the decades.
 
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