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So now they are saying MJ is "linked" to heart problems

Discussion in 'Medical Discussion' started by Ox45, Apr 24, 2014.

  1. Ox45

    Ox45 Well-Known Member

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    The study was done in France. I always thought they mixed MJ with tobacco out there in EU. I know tobacco is an independent risk factor for heart attacks, but weed? . Anyways, here's the link:

    http://www.latimes.com/science/scie...ack-stroke-marijuana-20140423,0,3208786.story

    Over a five-year period, a government-mandated tracking system in France showed that physicians in that country treated 1,979 patients for serious health problems associated with the use of marijuana, and nearly 2% of those encounters were with patients suffering from cardiovascular problems, including heart attack, cardiac arrhythmia and stroke, and circulation problems in the arms and legs. In roughly a quarter of those cases, the study found, the patient died.

    In the United States, when young and otherwise healthy patients show up in emergency departments with symptoms of heart attack, stroke, cardiomyopathy and cardiac arrhythmia, physicians have frequently noted in case reports that these unusual patients are regular marijuana users.

    Such reporting is hardly the basis for declaring marijuana use an outright cause of cardiovascular disease. But on Wednesday, cardiologists writing in the Journal of theAmerican Heart Assn. warned that "clinical evidence ... suggests the potential for serious cardiovascular risks associated with marijuana use." And with a growing movement to decriminalize marijuana use, they called for data-collection efforts capable of detecting and measuring marijuana's cardiovascular impact among American users ofcannibis setiva.

    "There is now compelling evidence on the growing risk of marijuana-associated adverse cardiovascular effects, especially in young people," said Emilie Jouanjus, lead author of the French study, which was also published in the Journal of the American Heart Assn. That evidence, Jouanjus added, should prompt cardiologists to consider marijuana use a potential cause of cardiovascular disease in patients they see.

    In an editorial published Wednesday in the AHA journal, Drs. Sherief Rezkalla and Robert A. Kloner asked, "Do we really know enough about the cardiovascular effects of marijuana to feel comfortable about its use in patients with known cardiovascular disease or patients with cardiovascular risk factors," including obesity, sedentary behavior, high blood pressure and worrisome cholesterol numbers.

    Rezkalla and Kloner combed the recent medical literature for animal experiments, observational studies and case reports linking marijuana use in close temporal proximity with cardiovascular events. They cited evidence that marijuana use probably increases clotting factors in the blood and that heavy marijuana use may lead to significant changes in the tiny vessels carrying blood to the heart and brain, such that even after clearance of a major blockage, blood flow remains impeded.

    Aside from heart attacks and strokes, case studies linked recent marijuana use in patients seeking care for increased angina, ischemic ulcers and gangrene associated with blocked blood flow to extremities and transcient ischemic attacks, sometimes called "mini-strokes." Notably these complaints often came from patients who were young and had no previous evidence of cardiovascular disease.

    "We think the time has come to stop and think about what is the best way to protect our communities from the potential danger of widespread marijuana use in the absence of safety studies," added Rezkalla, a cardiologist at the Marshfield Clinic in Wisconsin, and Kloner, a cardiologist at USC's Keck School of Medicine. "It is the responsibility of the medical community to determine the safety of the drug before it is widely legalized for recreational use."
     
  2. Newcastle

    Newcastle Stoned!

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    My heart breaks every time I run out!:rip:
     
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  3. turk

    turk turk

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    ...another in a Long...long...series of useless bullshit studies...
     
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  4. Enchantre

    Enchantre A short, pithy statement

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    I pushed my doctor to affirm that mj is not adversely affecting my BP & circulatory issues.

    This one study is just that - one study. I don't see controls put in place to filter out OTHER behaviors that these pot smokers might also be engaging in.

    Correlation is not causation.

    I think with more openness, more patients of ERs will be admitting to mj use, and if that is factored out across the population, really, how different then is the statistics?

    You can lie very, very well using statistics.
     
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  5. Magic9

    Magic9 Plant Enthusiast

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    That "study" is shit. For one, their numbers are off.
    http://blog.norml.org/2014/04/24/new-study-tells-nothing-about-marijuanas-role-in-heart-disease/

    Also, they forgot to mention that out of all 35 people who had an issue, 60% smoked tobacco. Who knows how much meth they may haved smoked in the past. Did they even smoke meth? Nobody knows.

    This is not even news. It's almost as if there was something behind this "report". That would be crazy right? Perhaps knowing who funded this would offer some answers.

    Financial support for the study was provided by the French InterMinisterial Mission for the Fight Against Drugs and Addiction (MILDT, Mission interministérielle de lutte contre les drogues et toxicomanies) and the French drug agency (ANSM, Agence Nationale de Sécurité des Médicaments).
    The study authors and the editorialists disclosed no relevant relationships with industry.

    http://www.medpagetoday.com/Cardiology/AcuteCoronarySyndrome/45396

    Now I'm not French, but that seems to be the equivelant to our NIDA and DEA.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2014
  6. pakalolo

    pakalolo RoboMod v3.17 (ticking) Staff Member

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    This is not a study, it is a summary of data that were originally collected for purposes other than to determine the claimed relationship. The methodology is deeply flawed and the authors even admit that indirectly. For one thing, such a conclusion is unwarranted without a control sample. The authors not only do not compare their results against people who did not use cannabis, they make excuses why this comparison is not possible—but not without scare-mongering while they do it. As the NORML article that Magic9 linked points out, there is an excellent chance that the incidence of heart trouble is actually lower in cannabis users.

    I'm not one of those who believes that cannabis is completely safe, but "studies" like this are complete bullshit designed to fight against the growing pressure to strike down the prohibition. I expect to see a lot more disinformation like this in the coming months, especially as the US vote draws near.
     
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  7. btka

    btka Well-Known Member

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    Would be nice to know who funded that study.... in my opinion it s propaganda... maybe pharma industry... also two german doctors (i think) this year stated that two young people died of heart problems because of the use of mj... but that waS very questionable... because they linked the heart problems without checking for other reasons directly with mj... yeahhhh i love this fucking disinformation society.... lobbying ....
     
  8. pakalolo

    pakalolo RoboMod v3.17 (ticking) Staff Member

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    From their paper:

    Now for your morning laugh:

     
  9. btka

    btka Well-Known Member

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    side note as i was searching this study in google there where also a lot finds in google which stated mj is good for your heart.... funny... but my first impression as i read in the german, austrian newspapers writing about this study, was that it is propaganda and after seeing that in america mj becomes accepted and in some states legal they fear that europe will do the same so they paying for such missinformations...


    here is the german study:
    "Sudden unexpected death under acute influence of cannabis"
    Abstract
    The acute toxicity of cannabinoids is said to be low and there is little public awareness of the potentially hazardous cardiovascular effects of cannabis, e.g. marked increase in heart rate or supine blood pressure. We describe the cases of two young, putative healthy men who died unexpectedly under the acute influence of cannabinoids. To our knowledge, these are the first cases of suspected fatal cannabis intoxications where full postmortem investigations, including autopsy, toxicological, histological, immunohistochemical and genetical examinations, were carried out. The results of these examinations are presented. After exclusion of other causes of death we assume that the young men experienced fatal cardiovascular complications evoked by smoking cannabis.

    http://www.fsijournal.org/article/S0379-0738(14)00054-1/abstract



    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=117399 (

    Study: Pot Increases Heart Attack Risks) Boston's Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center and Harvard Medical School)

    An ultra-low dose of tetrahydrocannabinol provides cardioprotection.

    Abstract
    Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the major psychoactive component of marijuana, is a cannabinoid agonist that exerts its effects by activating at least two specific receptors (CB1 and CB2) that belong to the seven transmembrane G-protein coupled receptor (GPCR) family. Both CB1 and CB2 mRNA and proteins are present in the heart. THC treatment was beneficial against hypoxia in neonatal cardiomyocytes in vitro. We also observed a neuroprotective effect of an ultra low dose of THC when applied to mice before brain insults. The present study was aimed to test and characterize the cardioprotective effects of a very low dose (0.002mg/kg) of THC which is 3-4 orders of magnitude lower than the conventional doses, administered before myocardial infarction in mice in vivo. Three regimens of THC administration were tested: single THC application 2h or 48h before the induction of infarct, or 3 weeks continuous treatment before MI. All protocols of THC administration were found to be beneficial. In the case of THC treatment 2h before MI, fractional shortening was elevated (37±4% vs. 42±1%, p<0.04), troponin T leakage to the blood was reduced (14±3ng/ml vs. 10±4ng/ml, p<0.008), infarct size decreased (29±4% vs. 23±4%, p<0.02), and the accumulation of neutrophils to the infarct area declined (36±10cells/field vs. 19±4cells/field, p<0.007) in THC- compared to vehicle-pretreated mice, 24h after MI. ERK1/2 phosphorylation following infarct was also inhibited by pre-treatment with THC (p<0.01).

    CONCLUSION:
    A single ultra low dose of THC before ischemia is a safe and effective treatment that reduces myocardial ischemic damage.

    Copyright © 2013 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23537701

    Cannabinoids Lower Blood Pressure to Normal Levels

    http://medicalmarijuana.com/medical-marijuana-treatments/Hypertension-High-Blood-Pressure-

     
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  10. Krazy

    Krazy Active Member

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    "clinical evidence ... suggests the potential for serious cardiovascular risks associated with marijuana use." Would be funny if it wasn't sad. Insulin is "associated" with diabetes; therefore, insulin causes diabetes.
     
  11. Curiousone

    Curiousone Well-Known Member

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    Thought I weigh in...

    A few years back a good friend of mine with whom I combusted insanely with during college refused to smoke after not seeing him in a while. I asked if he'd quit and he said yes because his doctor said it was not good for his heart.

    I thought he was joking, but he was dead serious. It didn't make sense to me then and still doesn't but it was enough for him to cut down dramatically. I will say this, he was a regular almost pack a day combuster too (I think this is more telling)
     
  12. pakalolo

    pakalolo RoboMod v3.17 (ticking) Staff Member

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    Combustion isn't good for the heart, especially if done excessively. The by-products of pyrolysis include things like carbon monoxide that can have serious implications if you have an existing heart problem.

    On the other hand, one or two joints or bowls a day probably won't have serious implications. When I was having angina and went to the hospital, I told the doctors (including my cardiologist) that I smoked one or two joints daily and they didn't seem to care. It was never mentioned again, although I had a double stent angioplasty. If they felt there was a problem I'm sure it would have been brought up.

    I think you're right that the cigarettes had far more to do with it.
     
  13. Phydeaux

    Phydeaux New Member

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    I know this is an old thread but I felt I needed to to create an account to reply to this with my own experience.

    I don't think that there is a cardiac link per se but I do think there is a correlation in that MJ acts as a vaso-dilator. I've read that this dilation is what causes the munchies as the blood vessels and the stomach itself enlarge a bit making emptiness more apparent and amplifying hunger.

    What I've found with myself is that I get rapid or irregular heartbeat from MJ when I'm dehydrated. I attribute this to having a history of low blood pressure. My reasoning is that since I start with low pressure, any time I'm dehydrated my blood volume is also decreased putting me at a disadvantage from a pumping efficiency perspective. Once the MJ kicks in, the dilation occurs and effectively increases the size of my circulatory system. This rapidly makes the ratio of blood volume to vessel size even worse and my heart freaks out trying to compensate.

    It also gives me fairly severe anxiety until things calm down a bit. This makes me wonder if a similar reaction might be the cause of anxiety in others. They say a sign of heart attack is a feeling of dread for seemingly no reason and while this is not a heart attack I feel that the anxiety may be generated from this failure of the ciculatory system signaling the brain that something is wrong.

    For what it's worth, I have found that since I've discovered this in myself I make sure I stay well hydrated and don't experience anxiety anymore.
     
  14. HerbalHealing

    HerbalHealing Active Member

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    Welcome to the board!
     
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  15. grokit

    grokit power cosmic

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    Bottom line is stress is the worst thing for your heart, and nothing alleviates stress like thc.
    Just ask the federal department of veteran's affairs :tup:
     

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