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sap/wax turns buttery

Discussion in 'Concentrates' started by jdgdtt, Feb 11, 2014.

  1. jdgdtt

    jdgdtt Member

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    14
    So lately after sitting for a few days my BHO turns from a nice clear sap to an opaque butter. This has happened to my last 3 runs. IT takes about 3-5 days to turn. I have been making the BHO the same way for about a year although I have been making BHO for 15+ years. Most of them using a plastic pop bottle?!?!?! Now I use a glass tube, run 1.5-2 cans through 35-40 grams of quality trim & popcorn bud, blast in to a pirex dish floating in hot water and let most of the butane evap before a high heat purge (-200) on a hot plate. I know that a lot of people would not do a high heat purge but I have seen it done and done it my self many times with very good results. There is a good video on you tube showing the process over a 12 hour period. My first 10-15 runs using this method produced some of the best sap/shatter and I was really enjoying it until now. The only variable I can find that has changed is the out side temp. I run out side for obvious reasons. I cant think of a logical reason that would cause this result. I'm stumped. I imagine there is a small amount of residual butane left but I figure it was there in my past runs too and they never did this. Any thoughts??
     
  2. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

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    My experience is that water is responsible for this...
     
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  3. Roger D

    Roger D Vapor Wizard

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    1,178
    Higher temperature : more water can suspend in the air before saturation
     
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  4. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    thanks Roger,

    you just connected a dot for me there ;-) never quit figured out why summer runs would get buddery and winter runs always staid more stable...sometimes you are in so deep you forget about the obvious...:)
     
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  5. Roger D

    Roger D Vapor Wizard

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    1,178
    Thanks man :) When you run, you're creating a cold point, it's a humidity trap, like a dehumidifier works, creating a cold, large surface to get the humidity from the air to condensate. Maybe you guys could watch out the humidity outside with a hygrometer before you run.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2014
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  6. DabComa

    DabComa Stuck in Dab Coma

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    Location:
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    I've had a large success solving that problem and keeping my end product more stable for longer by freezing everything before the run, the tube, the herbs, the Pyrex, and the butane. At least an hour or two. Keeps my product looking like pure amber till the last drop. See if that helps.
     
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  7. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

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    893
    Location:
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    good tip, I do the same, freezing everything first
     
  8. jdgdtt

    jdgdtt Member

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    14
    Thanks for the advice. I do agree it is trapped water. I do not know exactly how it is getting in there. My starting material and tube are kept in the garage so they are pretty much frozen. It is clod as **** outside so I don’t think it is extra moisture in the air causing the problem. I'm wondering if floating the pyrex in the hot water bath while blasting is the source of the extra water. That said I went to this method because I had a run come out buttery. Thinking I will do my next run in to cold pyrex and then do the hot water bath after I'm done blasting and see if that helps. I'm really stumped here. I did multiple runs while it was warm and even one when it was cold that came out perfect. I'm missing something here...
     
  9. next level

    next level Well-Known Member

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    Same material every time? If not I would guess that is the main problem. Extra moisture in the buttery batch. You can put the material in the oven for a little bit to make sure its dry.
     
  10. jdgdtt

    jdgdtt Member

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    [​IMG] Well this time I did not float my pyrex while spraying in hopes of not creating any steam to get caught in the oil... FAIL, when I brought the dish in with the butane and oil inside and did the hot water bath I could actually see the water in the mixture. No clue how its getting in there. As you can see the oil is already turning opaque. It was crystal clear yesterday. If previous experience holds true it will be butter in 1-2 more days. Oh well it still smokes the same...
     
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  11. deadheadbill

    deadheadbill I can see clearly now the smoke is gone...

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    Location:
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    I blast into a already warm glass crock pot insert. After spraying, I return it to the crock pot on low for a little while. Using no water, so none can get into the product.
     
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  12. jdgdtt

    jdgdtt Member

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    14
    I have run into the exact opposite situation. My summer runs come out as stable as any I have done. This winter has been a nightmare trying to get a stable end product. :\
     
  13. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    do keep in mind butane will always have a small percentage of water in it. So maybe it also depends on the amount of tane used...
     
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  14. farscaper

    farscaper Well-Known Member

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    Instead of water try sitting the dish in oil (cooking oil such as sunflower oil) then you wont have to worry about evaporation of h2o contaminating your product... Or try using only a hot plate and dish.

    Also as stated above, use as little tain as possible when running.
     
  15. mackiv

    mackiv New Member

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    11
    I live in California, and this happens to me all the time! In my opinion its actually do to under purging. Not under purging the butane mind you, but the water/moisture everyone else is speaking of. I always cold purge my shatter once I think its done, just to be sure. I noticed that if your trying to purge the water/moisture while adding heat(I.e. a hot plate under the vac chamber) the water simply bonds to the wax and can even darken the color.

    A 2 hour cold vac and directly to the freezer should do u some good bud!
     
  16. DabComa

    DabComa Stuck in Dab Coma

    Messages:
    243
    Location:
    NY
    That's exactly what I was going to say, and I even tested and verified it with a test run. I did my run as usual but this time I wanted to make it butter since normally I have a solid stable consistency. In order to do this I pulled the dish out after maybe an hour of purging, much sooner then I usually would. Normally I bathe until I can stick my finger in the wettest looking spot, and either pull it out clean with leaving a fingerprint, or with slight residue on my finger, that upon cooling to my body temp, is very handle able. This time pulling out early, scraping is very messy stringy and a pain in the ass, as compared to a full purge, where scraping is easy and not messy or stringy at all. After you scrape with the razor, you should be able to pick the chunk up cleanly and easily off the blade. If you can't do that or are afraid to for the mess and product loss, you are not purging enough. This is my experience running flower... Some leaf runs just refuse to stiffen up...

    I took subsequent pictures of all my findings and day to day photos of two oils from the same bud run both ways as described, and you can watch in the photos as the under purged product slowly butters, while the properly purged product remains stable and consistent.

    You could that is if I had internet at home and didn't have to use my HTC One to get on the net. I can't upload the photos from my phone for whatever reason, so I'll have to wait till I can post my internet bill and use my PC lol.
     
  17. jdgdtt

    jdgdtt Member

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    14
    Well another run yielded some interesting results. This time it went butter right while I was doing my purge. I panicked and pulled it from the heat. I took a small glob and put it on higher heat and after a while it finally melted and went back to oil. Once it went back to oil butane started purging out again; after a long purge over pretty high heat (Learned this on a youtube video, its was a good watch) I finally ended up with a nice sap. It came out darker , sticky, and clearly a little decarbed but it tastes great and has remained stable for a few days now. I now think that my problem has been poor purging the whole time. In an effort to get a more stable end product (without a vac since I can afford one right now) I kept turning down the heat trying to get a shatter rather than sap. I think this caused the oil to stop bubbling before all the butane was gone and I incorrectly believed that it was done. Oops!! Clearly I will never get shatter till I winterize or vacuum purge. I do think I'm a little closer to getting the best you can using this process though. This really tastes good I little less heat and a little more time should produce a nice blond crystal clear taffy like sap. The funny part is I nailed it almost by accident a while back. Tried to get cocky and make it better and I ended up with some buttery stuff. :/

    This stuff tasted so good I had to bust out the torch and glass rig, Made from mid grade Chocolate Chunk buds.


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. DabComa

    DabComa Stuck in Dab Coma

    Messages:
    243
    Location:
    NY
    Ok I've got the pics to go with my last post now so here goes :

    roughly 1 day after run, was amber like but is slowly beginning to change, shown next to the same bud ran the way I always do it, that remains stable even as the test run begins buttering.

    [​IMG]

    And then the next pic is a week later, with full on butter effect throughout...


    [​IMG]

    You can see the small darker spot in the bottom left hand corner, if i dug that out, it still has a shatter like consistency, so it almost fully buttered not quite fully throughout
     
  19. farscaper

    farscaper Well-Known Member

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    1,728
    Oxidation.
     
  20. mackiv

    mackiv New Member

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    I wouldnt quite call that budder yet tho my dude, it still looks to be just a bit under purged. U need to thin out the layer of oil as thin as you can in the vac chamber to keep it from turning to wax. Also you must ad heat to the topside of the oil slab as well so the heat added from below doesn't trap itself in the wax, causing autobuddering
     
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  21. farscaper

    farscaper Well-Known Member

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    1,728
    What type of tube closure do you use? Coffee filter, stainless steel mesh?

    I noticed in my own production that the two biggest factors in wax or butter is heat.... and plant matter. Now you may have super light color, but that does not indicate that the oil is matter free. In fact the name wax is quite literal in this case cause if you do not have fine mesh or coffee filter you probably have increased levels of fats, lipids and waxes. Since the butane actually dissolves the trichome these materials will inherently end up in your oil. Winterization is the best method of removing these and stabilizing your end product.
     
  22. mackiv

    mackiv New Member

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    11
    Honestly your best bet for filtering would be 2 layers of ≥50 micron screens. They last forever.
     
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  23. jdgdtt

    jdgdtt Member

    Messages:
    14
    so I finally got a vac chamber and my first run came out nice. pretty much a shatter, it does get sticky after you hold it for a min. Nice though. My second run... not so good. it auto buddered right in the vac chamber. No clue why. I tried to purge with almost no heat figuring I would end up with a better product. No luck after about 20 hours in the vac some turned to budder. Figured at this point I would let it go. we are about 30 hours in and it is all budder and starting to get a little harder. I’m lost here anyone have any comments or suggestions?
     
  24. mackiv

    mackiv New Member

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    11
    More heat will force the extract to lie flat and thin, refusing the viscosity's integrity against the vacuum pull. Get a heat gun ($15 at home depot) and ad heat from above then vac till it clears up.
     
  25. jdgdtt

    jdgdtt Member

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    14
    I will try this. That said I have it spread pretty thin...
     

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