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PBW & the Chemistry of Clean

Discussion in 'Glass' started by t-dub, Dec 8, 2012.

  1. ramram

    ramram bamboozled

    Messages:
    57
    Just jumping on this magic trio now, nace with distilled water and citric acid. All but the nace has arrived so far, cant be much longer now though.
    This is a great thread, i would never have thought if even using anything other than tap water so big thanks from me!
    Will pick up some pbw soon too :rockon:
     
  2. sokesleezy

    sokesleezy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    142
    If there is a tiny amount of PBW caught somewhere in your piece and you use it, will it clump up with vapor buildup?
     
    CuckFumbustion likes this.
  3. MoltenTiger

    MoltenTiger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,187
    Location:
    Down down under
    There shouldn't be any trapped in a piece as it rinses away entirely. It's definitely not a good idea to vape through PBW solution no matter the concentration, but PBW shouldn't be able to get trapped and cause any problems if enough rinsing is done
     
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  4. sokesleezy

    sokesleezy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    142
    Thanks, I just got it so im still trying to figure it all out. I'll be sure to rinse more.
     
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  5. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,954
    A couple of pointers you might find helpful:

    1. Mix your PBW with VERY hot water in a cup before pouring into your piece.
    2. Not much PBW is needed. For a cup of just shy of boiling water, I use maybe a 1/4-1/3 of a tsp.
    3. The PBW in the cup should be dissolved into the water completely before pouring into your piece. If it hasn't, your water is not hot enough, or you used to much, or both.
    4. Pour into your piece and add additional hot water until full
    5. I don't leave it in there more than 10-15 minutes. Better to run multiple washes, IMO, than to try to get more cleaning power by just leaving it soak.
    6. Rinse your piece well when done.

    If you do this, you definitely should NOT find any pieces of PBW in your piece. If you do have pieces of PBW stuck in your piece, I would try very hot water to dissolve it then rinse well.

    Cheers
     
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  6. little maggie

    little maggie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,742
    I've been trying to read this thread and I'm starting to feel overwhelmed. Is there a wiki or somewhere else that explains the differences between PBW, alconox, and any liquid cleaners?
     
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  7. t-dub

    t-dub Vapor Sloth

    Messages:
    7,434
    Location:
    Oregon
    Not that I am aware of, however the people at Ecologic Cleansers have a nice "geek" section, see below.

    PBW is basically a mix of oxyclean and trisodium phosphate (TSP) substitute. Its actually good for the environment because it puts oxygen back into the water. The other cleaners like it on the market are Straight A and One Step from Ecologic Cleansers. I highly recommend going under the "Geek Stuff" menu and reading "The Essentials of Cleaning", and "The Role of Chemistry in Cleaning".

    http://www.ecologiccleansers.com/the-geek-stuff/the-essentials-of-cleaning/

    http://www.ecologiccleansers.com/the-geek-stuff/role-of-chemistry-in-cleaning/


    The MSDS info on Alconox says not to let it get into waterways which means you shouldn't put it down the drain. This makes it a no go for me plus it is expensive. Someone started an Alconox thread here but it didn't get very far.

    Other cleaners like Simple Green are alcohol based and can damage some lower quality plastics. Grunge Off is just a mix of ISO and d-limonene (orange oil).

    If you are considering another cleaner just ask and we can find out what it is etc.
     
  8. ataxian

    ataxian PALE BLUE DOT

    Messages:
    10,544
    Location:
    SURF CITY
    I use everything without bias.

    PBW I like and use as well.

    It's a good product.[​IMG]

    I need to clean my MOUTHPIECE from www.oregonglassblower.com


    The HOLIDAY'S have been crazy! (no time to clean?)

    I always rise with LIMES after cleaning!
     
  9. little maggie

    little maggie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,742
    I went to Amazon to order PBW and they have a product by the same company called star san. Is that comparable to PBW or does it have a different function?
     
  10. MoltenTiger

    MoltenTiger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,187
    Location:
    Down down under
    I believe that is a sanitiser and is not comparable. It's used to sterilise brewery equipment after a PBWing

    Edit: Here's some better info
    I don't think it would be of much use/recommendable for vaping equipment, it's intended mainly for industrial use
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
  11. t-dub

    t-dub Vapor Sloth

    Messages:
    7,434
    Location:
    Oregon
    Star San is a sanitizer only. PBW is NOT a sanitizer. One Step, by Ecologic Cleansers, is both a cleaner and sanitizer in one. I have been experimenting with it and it works well for our purposes. Its no where near PBW or Straight A for cleaning power though.
     
  12. CuckFumbustion

    CuckFumbustion Lo and Behold! The transformative power of Vapor.

    Messages:
    1,686
    Location:
    Cuckfumbustion Central
    Found this thread and considering using PBW as a weekly cleaning instead of ISO. @t-dub showed us his earlier setup with the silicone hose plugged into his hydrotube. I have access to restaurant cleaning supplys and within walking distance from a restaurant supply store.
    So I might get other cleaning 'things ' for this project. any rec'd items, methods or practices before I dig in.

    Want to get into a weekly setup of cleaning all my glass with as little hassle as necessary. Like I do with my screens.
     
  13. t-dub

    t-dub Vapor Sloth

    Messages:
    7,434
    Location:
    Oregon
    @CuckFumbustion - It sounds like you know what you are doing. Please keep us updated on your progress. You might want to get a lab scoop or Scoopula for putting PBW in your glass. They are handy.

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,954
    I will say this...I use PBW, I learned all I know from the thread @t-dub started, and I like it a lot.

    I looked around for stuff to make a hose system like T-dubs but my sink faucet is not ameanable and I found it was not necessary.

    I did get some plugs from Delta 3D Studios. I also have some soft rubbery artificial wine stoppers that work for some openings also.

    Key for me is to heat the water well in microwave, THEN add the PBW, then pout in piece, top off with hot water from sink, plug and let sit.

    I have found that with concentrate type reclaim...you know, the honey looking goo from dabbing...does not respond to PBW as well as herb residue. I have found the need to use a bit of ISO when I get some gobs like that followed by PBW bath. The ISO just melts that kind of reclaim while the PBW wasn't touching it really.

    Cheers
     
  15. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,954
    Mod's - sorry, can't edit and combine with above

    All - just thought I needed to expand what I posted above just a bit

    Key for me is to heat the water well in microwave to just before boiling
    I use a small pyrex measuring cup​
    THEN add the PBW
    When in doubt, use less
    You want all PBW to dissolve. Stir it.
    If you still have particles, you used too much​
    Then pour in piece and top off with hot water from sink
    Plug and let sit
    I don't let it sit in there for more than 10 minutes. Multiple soaks seems to be the key rather than long soaks
    Hope this is helpful.
     
  16. Kozzmozz

    Kozzmozz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    102
    Location:
    Belgium
    @mandelbrod
    What an incredible transformation! I read you bought with a EU seller, which one was that?

    Thanks in advande and thanks @t-dub for the suggestion!
     
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  17. mandelbrod

    mandelbrod Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    41
  18. CuckFumbustion

    CuckFumbustion Lo and Behold! The transformative power of Vapor.

    Messages:
    1,686
    Location:
    Cuckfumbustion Central
    Just dropped in again. I use citrus cleaner for other uses and would like to hear more of the magic trio. I'm starting to get into making my own detergent for laundry and other things. So there might be a crossover of information.
    O.K had my PBW arrive today and I already just made a mess of my HT when the cap to my ELB didn't bother to stay on.:bang: SO, no time like the present. :D

    LSS, I didn't get tot scientific first time out. more like rolling up my sleeves and diggin' in.

    Anyway, I have a 2 liter nalgene bottle I no longer use to drink from and a rubbermaid tub and my bathroom tub for all the spillover.

    First a very small amount of PBW and 1 liter of warm water in the nalgene and enough centrifugal shaking to breakup the crystals and foam thing up. All the glass pieces are already sitting in the tub. Ready to be cleaned. Then I proceed to very slowly pour the weak PBW mix into the mouths of each piece. And continue to fill the nalgene with warm water and shake a little and repeat pouring slowly into the mouths of each and repeat until there is overflow into the tub.

    I let them all sit for 5m, then warm rinse all the stuff that wants to come out. Next batch was the same nalgenes 1 liter's worth, but more PBW, more setting, more of a chemical reaction occuring, then I flush out as much as I can.

    Before I went for the third and final application, I try everything else that seemed to work at the problem. (The hail-mary pass/stage.:haw:) The ISO was able to melt the gobs and stubborn spots with a lot less effort. I did use a little shaking, and other older techniques. Perhaps next time out it will just be a small amount of ISO for the small globs and no shaking or overworking. Did try to run water straight through like it was a piece of glass plumbing enough times. Which is more in line with how it was meant to work.

    Third time, I put crystals directly in the pieces and added water. allowed for the reaction, shake a small amount to get the crystals to break up inside. Rinse, break up the heavier crystals, allow for the reaction, pour a little out and repeat. Rinsed out everything being careful to get any residual fine particles of PBW and hard water stains out.

    I tried to use warm water instead of hot when it worked well enough, and slow soaking over the practice of flushing of gallons of water when I could get it to work for me, and was pretty meticulous cleaning the glass first time out. All forms of cloudiness is gone. The ISO worked where the PBW didn't and was able to work better at those concentrated areas. Not bad for a first time out. Now to actually read the thread more closly and get with how to do it, CORRECTLY!!:haw:
     
  19. MoltenTiger

    MoltenTiger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,187
    Location:
    Down down under
    I am finding very hot water (boiled from kettle) mixed with a modest amount (1tsp:<0.5L) and left to soak for 10 mins is effective for PBW.
    Bung joints to avoid tide-lines.

    If there are globs on the glass walls, ISO pre-rinsing is beneficial (and reclaimable, I guess)

    Cold rinsing seems to be as effective as hot water post PBW
     
  20. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,954
    I'm with you....hot water is better than warm.
     
  21. scalescliffs

    scalescliffs cashed

    Messages:
    212
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Just wanted to say thanks to everybody on this thread. I used my sous vide cooker at 180*F with a few spoonfuls of PBW and just threw my glass in the pot. Came back 45 minutes later and they are cleaner than the day I got them. Really outstanding.

    This alone is worth having found this forum.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
  22. t-dub

    t-dub Vapor Sloth

    Messages:
    7,434
    Location:
    Oregon
    You are welcome. Vape on and try some cranberry extract in your vaping medium.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
  23. Squiby

    Squiby Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,861
    I've seen references to cranberry extract before. Why do you recommend this and where do you buy it? Is this a health food item like an essential oil? Or just a fruit juice concentrate?
     
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  24. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,954
    Here you go, @Squiby :

    http://www.botanicchoice.com/liquid-extracts/Cranberry-Liquid-Extract-1-oz.axd

    You want alcohol free and most of it out there has alcohol.

    The purpose of the cranberry, as I understand it, is that it will help slow/decrease amount of reclaim building in your glass. I have found, however, that using the cranberry also necessitates pretty frequent changes in bong water as the cranberry will grow mold/bacteria if the water is left standing for too long.

    Cheers
     
  25. Squiby

    Squiby Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,861
    Thanks for the explanation! I am just exploring the idea of adding a water tool, likely a bubbler to my Vapcap vaping. I know nothing about water tools; the devices themselves or the techniques for use or maintenance, so please excuse my silly questions....

    I imagined that with every water pipe session, the spent herb as well as the used water would be discarded. If not, how long can you typically use the same water?
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017

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