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Oh yes, it's this one again (Sleep problems)

Discussion in 'Vaporization Discussion' started by ThisIsBrutus, Feb 12, 2014.

  1. ThisIsBrutus

    ThisIsBrutus New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Hello FC! :DMy first post in this awesome forum. I've been following you for a few weeks, and this seems like a genuinely nice place to be! Sorry for the long post, but in order for you to help me I really feel like I need to explain my situation in detail - so I hope you'll spare me 5 minutes of your time. Recently got into the world of vaping with a brand new Arizer Solo. I love everything about it and vaping in general. The high, the stealthiness, the health aspect, the flavor and the economical part of it as well. I've had it for 2 weeks and I can already say that it's changed my life pretty drastically. I come from a bit of a different background than most of you. I'm from Denmark, and while absolute top-quality bud is available, so is some of the best hash you can get your hands on. We have a bit of tradition of smoking hash here in Denmark. We mix it with tobacco and put it in joints or a bong, and while it is something that is frowned upon by many people, we enjoy it this way. I have been smoking daily for the past 4-5 years (joints with tobacco and hash), and I very much look forward to that last strong joint of the day to put me to sleep.I have, however, wanted to go all-green and quit the tobacco for quite some time, so I finally splurged for the solo (expensive as shit here, I think i paid upwards of 600 dollars for it, but worth every single dollar I might add).I was pleasantly surprised, and the high I get during the day is far better than the couch-lock I'm used to. I get so much more shit done now, it's amazing!But no matter what I just can't fall asleep. I've pretty much had insomnia since I got this thing (with remarkably few side effects though, which I do find kinda strange. I just haven't been tired at all). I quickly narrowed it down to either the missing nicotine or the indica-type high from the hash. I started smoking a cigarette together with my go-to-sleep vape at night, which didn't work either.
    I changed to a heavier, stronger indica strain.I turn up the heat on the solo to 7 to get everything out of the bud. I even got PVHES stems and the GonG to use it in my bong. This definitely gets me high as fuck, but not tired at all.Nothing helps.It's probably down to a year-long addiction/dependency, but since I've ruled out nicotine, I don't really know what is causing this. Could it be that my body/brain is so dependent on something as specific as hash? And that cannabis (generally) just doesn't do it for me anymore?I might add I tried making some brownies with some ABV that knocked me on my ass for 14 hours straight - so the strain/bud is obviously good(enough) for putting me to sleep, but is it possible that the vaporizer simply can't extract the amount of CBD(?) that I'm used to from the hash?I hope you got some great ideas or at least some answers, because I'm getting quite desperate here and I am not letting go of that vaporizer, it's here to stay! ;)Edit: Holy crap. I've spent some time writing this post so that it looked somewhat organized, and the second i press the "post" button it fucks everything up and end up with a wall of text.
     
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  2. DDave

    DDave Vape Wizard

    Messages:
    1,249
    Hi and Welcome ThisIsBrutus,

    You've definitely come to the right place. Much good advise to be had!

    Great choice on the Solo! With what you've stated, couldn't you grind up some hash and make a herb sandwich in your Solo stem (herb/ground hash/herb)... Then vape at 7? I guess dependent on the consistency of the hash... At minimum, if at least some of the hash got vaped along with the indica, you could look for a difference in effect that was closer to what you felt when you smoked hash?

    Good Luck! I hate insomnia!

    Normally my posts are longer, but pressed for time this evening.
     
    grokit likes this.
  3. grokit

    grokit power cosmic

    Messages:
    5,285
    Location:
    the north
    Welcome @ThisIsBrutus!
    I think I caught $600 for a solo, you must be out there :o
    Anyways just enter some carriage returns, it will be a lot more readable.
    Oh yeah mix that hash with flowers instead!
    :tup:
     
    DDave likes this.
  4. ThisIsBrutus

    ThisIsBrutus New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Thanks for the quick replies. Actually I have tried hash in the solo with a somewhat limited success. The amount of hash you can fill in the solo without clogging it up is very minimal, and it takes cleaning to a whole new level. I'll experiment with it a bit more, but I would really like to only smoke herbs. Yes 600 for a solo is ridiculous, but everything here is insanely expensive. Cars are just outright insane, I checked the other day, and a BMW m3 (which is a very nice car and all) costs the equivalent of 300.000 dollars, so i'll live with 600 for the solo. And I just checked my calculations - It's more like 500 but that's still crazy expensive.
     
  5. DDave

    DDave Vape Wizard

    Messages:
    1,249
    Sorry to hear about the limited success with hash in your Solo! Experiment with different grinds and combos/ratios, something may click.

    Ok, now I'm gonna do something I never thought I would.... Recommend a T-Break... :nod::doh::cry::ugh:

    Maybe it's time to reset your internals regarding THC? Take a break for a while... When you return, everything will pack much more of a punch!

    For me, some good purps or OG, solo on level 7 and I'm :zzz:

    Good Luck & Vape On!

    Edit: Crud, forgot! Need to arrange travel, purchase 1000 Solos, a BMW M3, and some Oreos..... Denmark here I come$$$$$$$

    Oops... the "$$$$$$$$" above were supposed to be "!!!!!!!" HONESTLY! I don't care for the money!!!!
     
    Nevertheless1090 likes this.
  6. sasNW

    sasNW SmartVape all day

    Messages:
    580
    Location:
    Seattle
    Welcome and definitely keep trying hash in the solo. Works great in a sandwich between ground bud, you probably just need to work on the ratio.

    I definitely had the same problem switching to vaping and quitting tabacco. I too mixed mine with hash and flower as me and my buddies have done this since our teens. Give it a bit more time for your body to adjust and you will be good to go IMO. Or try smoking a bit of just hash to ease your way into only vaping. Will at least help a bit with the nicotine withdrawals. Best of luck!

    O ya just thought of edibles as well, definitely helped me when I quit
     
    grokit likes this.
  7. djonkoman

    djonkoman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,611
    do you try going to sleep right after vaping? in that case it may help to wait 30 min. or so, so the first 'rush' is gone.
     
  8. Lo

    Lo Combustion free since '09

    Messages:
    2,838
    Location:
    Earth
    Hmm... not sure if it will help but I find that the higher range stuff induces sleep for me. Much of the time this is left behind in lower temp vaping. Can consider revaping ABV (gross I know but a thought) at high temps. Some would just eat the ABV as well (firecrackers maybe). I make a tincture out of most of my ABV and that has the high range, sleep inducing stuff. I think finding a way to get at the goodies at the higher end of the spectrum should help.

    I hope you find a way to get your sleep schedule on track. Insomnia SUCKS!
     
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  9. ThisIsBrutus

    ThisIsBrutus New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Actually I end all my sessions at 7, so theres nothing vape-able left in there. I do save it and use it for edibles though.
     
  10. PNWMMJ

    PNWMMJ Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    74
    Location:
    PNW
    Welcome to the forum!

    I had horrible insomnia for about a year while the doctors had no idea what was wrong with me, only got 2-3 hours a night if I was lucky. Still have problems sleeping, but am getting 5-6 now.

    I dove into and researched everything I could, Found a sleep mantra that worked some, burned incense, have thunder storms and ocean beach sounds going all night. Learned some relaxation techniques that helped. Started drinking herbal teas that promote sleep and mental/physical relaxation. Meditation, yoga and acupuncture was my next step and I am still going to pursue these avenues once I get my house sold and have the time.

    Good luck, of all the hell and shit I've been through health wise in the last decade, with the exception of not knowing what was wrong with me, sleep deprivation was the absolute worst.

    Good luck.
     
  11. Lo

    Lo Combustion free since '09

    Messages:
    2,838
    Location:
    Earth
    Good advice from @PNWMMJ :D I actually have a machine that plays pouring rain sounds all night and it made HUGE difference in my sleep. I even ended up getting a portable to take for travel.

    Fingers crossed for you.
     
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  12. oklahomie

    oklahomie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    70
    I've been battling insomnia for years, so I'll tell you the things that have helped me out. I think insomnia is definitely different with everybody though, so I would do your own experimenting.

    First off I would try a lower temperature on your solo. I think this goes against what a lot of people would recommend because of the more combustion-like effects of using level 7, but I find that high temp vaping stimulates my anxiety a bit more. I get a little more of a rush which is welcomed in some situations, but sleeping is not one of them. I usually vape a full stem on level 4 about an hour before I want to try to sleep. I try to watch TV or do something mindless during that hour to help slow down my brain. Level 4 gives me the right balance of high + relaxation.

    If you're dedicated to using hash, I have had pretty good results breaking up hash into small pieces and mixing it with grinded flowers with the solo on about level 5. I think with a good 50/50 ratio you get nice airflow, and it definitely packs more of a punch. Kief is also a good way to help strengthen a solo bowl, and the Solo vapes kief beautifully.

    I've always been told to not eat a few hours before trying to sleep because it's harder to fall asleep when your body is digesting. I don't really know if it's placebo effect or not, but I think this is true in my case. Sometimes I just can't help it and I have to get up out of bed and get some late night munchies. After my snack sesh I'm generally much more awake then I was before I got up.

    I feel like I could probably think of some more tips, but I'm having vape induced writers block. Just know that when you're up late at night there are tons of people out there goin through the same BS.

    Good luck! :zzz:
     
    grokit likes this.
  13. ataxian

    ataxian California

    Messages:
    5,980
    Insomnia I have.
    My personal method:
    SOLO level 3 GDP

    Relax!
    This works well.
     
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  14. syrupy

    syrupy fumed

    Messages:
    1,487
    Insomnia sufferer for a long time now. Tried the relaxation techniques, no stimulus like tv close to bedtime, try to keep regular hours, herbal teas, white noise machines, keeping bedroom cool and dark. warm baths, valerian, triptophan, melatonin, indicas, etc. None of them work that well for me. I have some uk cheese shatter that will put me down for the count on a ti nail, but only some of the times. Ambien worked OK but got tired of popping a pill every night. Mostly I just learned to live with it.

    Edit: I forgot, edibles seem to do the trick.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2014
  15. PNWMMJ

    PNWMMJ Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    74
    Location:
    PNW
    Was going to add this stuff later, all good advice syrupy. :tup:

    Also, remove the clock from your bedroom or cover the time readout. Watching that damned clock while you can't sleep is not good and will drive you nuts.

    All of the above helped me get another hour or two on top of the hour or two I was getting.

    Been two years since my worst insomnia, I can get 4-6 hours sleep pretty regularly now. On the odd night I will get 8 hours and feel fantastic that day, but then sleep like total crap for about 3 days. It's a wicked cycle. But oh well. Such are the cards I've been dealt. Still walking and talking so I can't complain. :peace:
     
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  16. arf777

    arf777 No longer dogless

    Messages:
    669
    Location:
    In the Shadow of the Beast
    I'm a chronic pain patient and a lifelong insomniac. Got really bad last year when I got off all my pain and other meds (they weren't helping the pain, but they did help me sleep). I used my Solo a lot before I got my original Cloud (now have that and an EVO). For sleep, I crank the EVO all the way max, and even with sativa strains, it helps me sleep. And i ain't had a t-break in over 5 years cuz of the pain.

    I think the European version of the EVO is supposed to be available soon. If you can afford it, get one. With either hash or flowers it way outperforms both of my solos, especially when it comes to pain and sleep.

    Also want to ask- are you using bubble has or old-school hash? If the latter, try 'fluffing' it before gaping (that's what it's called here, don't know what it'd be called in Denmark). Fluffing old-school hash us heating it slightly with a lighter and then flattening it. Increases surface are significantly. Not sure what the heating does, but even combusting, it made hash more effective. Never had to try it with bubble- it always worked fine as-is.
     
  17. ataxian

    ataxian California

    Messages:
    5,980
    [​IMG]
    before bed with SHATTER
    [​IMG]
    To keep on a even path!
     
  18. mvapes

    mvapes Surrounded by the healthy!

    Messages:
    4,456
    Location:
    On Shakey Ground
    And the Persei's match the Rolex! :razz:
     
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  19. SecretVapor

    SecretVapor New Member Retailer

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Providence, RI
    2-3 hours sound so familiar. I'v had insomnia pretty bad for the last few years. It's the most depressing thing. Glad to hear you're getting 5-6 now! good for you. Doesn't sound like much to most people but when your only getting 2-3, 6hours feels incredible. Are there any teas in particular that you found worked well?
     
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  20. SecretVapor

    SecretVapor New Member Retailer

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Providence, RI
    What was Ambien like? I got a prescription for it but never filled it. I'v heard some sleep walking and people getting pretty wiped out off of it.
     
  21. arf777

    arf777 No longer dogless

    Messages:
    669
    Location:
    In the Shadow of the Beast
    Personally, I had persistent sleep behaviors with Ambien, even months after ceasing to use it. In my case a lot of sleep cooking and eating. Actually gained 20 pounds because of it. Did some surprisingly good cooking in that state though.

    Lunesta was, in some ways, even worse. Had such vivid and freaky dreams on it, I started fearing going to sleep. Still haunted by some of the Lunesta-induced nightmares.

    Restoril (temazepam) helped with sleep and didn't have the other weird effects, but leaves me droopy the next day.
     
  22. herbivore21

    herbivore21 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,055
    From a fellow insomniac my friend, there are a few factors at play here.

    The carcinogens from combusting your weed before would have contributed to the narcotic, sleepy feeling you got. The biggest issue I had at first changing from smoking to vaping was my reappearing insomnia (part of the reason I use MJ in the first place!).

    The guys here are on the right track. If you were using hash before, your tolerance is probably huge (like mine). Take a T-Break (difficult, I know, I need one of these to kill my mammoth tolerance too), or, use hash in your solo. As an owner of an all glass vapor path PNP, and trusting the temperature settings on that unit. I would suggest cranking the Solo to the highest setting (similar to my highest setting that I use on PNP), using a bowl filled at the bottom with reasonably well ground bud, then in a separate container chopping up your hash and bud together until it is a finely cut mixture of bud and flakes of hash. So long as you sit this mixture on a bed of buds to stop the hash from melting back into the solo, you'll be sorted!

    I have found this to be far and away the most efficient way to extract ISO based hashes/bubble hashes in a vape. Prepare for neverending bowls! :)

    EDIT: Use the Solo facing upside down into your bong to further stop the oils leaking back into the unit :) Remember, it goes in this order for packing your bowl:

    Heat element ----> bed of ground buds ----> mixture of very well chopped (I use manicure scissors) buds w/ hash
     
  23. grokit

    grokit power cosmic

    Messages:
    5,285
    Location:
    the north
    Sleeping pills are the worst. The newer ones only give me a few hours unless it's time-released like ambien plus. Valium works best but it has a half-life the next day. For myself I just settle for flexeril since I have muscle spasms anyways, I've never used anything else long-term. I read once that valium is a muscle-specific relaxant while flexeril is a whole-body relaxant, interesting I suppose. The flexeril works best if I take it before dinner because it also has a half-life the next day if I take it too late in the evening.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2014
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  24. herbivore21

    herbivore21 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,055
    I was holding out on making my 100th post so I could get the trophy for 200 likes to 100 posts, but had to chime in here.

    Fellow combustion fuckers. Please, please, do not use benzodiazepenes (Valium, Xanax, Temazepam, etc...) to get to sleep. These are all very addictive drugs! The withdrawals are similar to alcohol withdrawals (any hardcore junkie will tell you this is far worse than coming off heroin!).

    If you guys are anything like me. Your sleep is both rare, and so important. Hash is what I have found is the solution to insomnia. Right before bed time, I hit my special sleepy vape mixture. Here are the instructions to make this:

    1. Own the following
    - 100% Isopropyl alcohol
    - Pyrex measuring jug
    - A glass
    - Pyrex pie plate/dish
    - Unbleached coffee filters
    - Titanium grinders, glassware, GonGs, wands (the filthier the better) or AVB
    - good bud, preferably indica

    2. If you are reclaiming from filthy glassware etc:

    Wash all of your unclean stuff in ISO in as large a diameter glass as you can find, thoroughly, until spotless. Use as little ISO as possible. Once finished, pour the ISO through the coffee filter into the pyrex jug. This will take a while to drip through, but this is ok. You may notice a load of kief/AVB catching in the filter, don't worry, we'll rescue this later!

    What you have in the pyrex jug should be an amber coloured ISO solution. It may get a little green (if it gets green, you have soaked plant material from your grinder in ISO for too long, don't do that!).

    If you are using AVB or fresh buds:
    Do the same as above, but wash your AVB (or fresh buds, ground or whole to your taste) in the ISO glass before filtering this through the coffee filter into the pyrex dish for evaporating (Step 3).

    3. Take pyrex pie plate. rest this on top of a large cooking pot filled with water and bring the water to a boil on the stove. DO THIS IN AN EXTREMELY WELL VENTILATED, CLEAN AREA, AWAY FROM SOURCES OF IGNITION! I DO NOT RECOMMEND USING A STOVE UNLESS IT IS A CERAMIC STOVE TOP (The kind with a solid glass pane over all of the heating elements so nothing spills inside).

    Eventually, the ISO will evaporate completely, smell the oil stuck to the bottom of the dish. If it doesn't smell like ISO anymore, you are ready to get the hashy goodness out of the dish.

    4. Take a nice, dense, firm bud of your favourite 'erb. Rub the bud into the hash on the dish and get as much on the bud as possible. Repeat with other buds until clean. Put the resulting hashy buds into a container. Chop finely with scissors (I use manicure scissors, seems to not get so much hash/kief caught on them). Voila, you have Herbivore21's patented sleeping slurry, ready to vape! Put a very small bed of clean ground buds in between the heating element of your vapes and the sleeping slurry (TM). Enjoy!

    Hope my 100th post was worth it! :)

    Go do it, it is 4:20pm here right now, that's as good an excuse as any!
     
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  25. wisherly

    wisherly Active Member

    Messages:
    109
    Location:
    San Francisco Bay Area
    I'd recommend staying away from the pills as much as possible and exploring herbs. Valerian root was mentioned. I also use Calea, lotus flowers and stamens, skullcap, kava kava, marshmallow root, and probably some others I'm forgetting. Oh, and cannabis. :) I mix these up and vape them, or make tea, or in the case of Valerian Root I put it in capsules and swallow. I recommend experimentation with different amounts and of course researching everything first.
     
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