BigDaddyVapor
@BigDogJunction
Deflect, Dismiss, Belittle, Ignore... sing it lwien.
Obamacare
- Thread starter Rick
- Start date
Deflect, Dismiss, Belittle, Ignore... sing it lwien.
Tea Party
Boro Connoisseur
No corporation owns you. You have a choice as to whether or not you buy their products.
Now that the feds have a hand in paying for health care costs for a larger swath of the public they will exert their control in the name of low health care costs.
You think New York city banning soda over 16oz was bad, you haven't seen anything yet.
If you like the government controlling your life so much why not move to a country like north korea, there you don't have to worry about any corporations and the great government will protect you!
Bad? Bad? where did i ever say that? In fact, i think it is fucking BRILLIANT! Bloomberg just keeps getting better and better.
Tea Party
Boro Connoisseur
You honestly believe the government telling you what you can and can not put in your body is a good thing?
BigDaddyVapor
@BigDogJunction
Let the wannabe socialists rejoice, TP.
They'll learn, too late.
They'll learn, too late.
dequelo
Plant Abuser
no I do not
but sadly
they are telling us more and more every dayall the best and stay free
Dequelo
aesthyrian
Blaaaaah
I'll go ahead and use your stupid line "Deflection noted."
Should I call you fascist too? That's a great way to further a conversation. But lwien already pointed out how you don't actually want discourse, just vitriol, and I'm all out of that.
At the end of the day the conservative supreme court agreed that it's constitutional. Blame Bush, he appointed Roberts...
since i'm now on the financial hook to pay for healthcare, if peeps are too stupid to know not to drink high fucktose corn syrup, they should be told not to --- or at least make them get just a little exercise for their second helping, eh?
BigDaddyVapor
@BigDogJunction
Another twisting of the truth. They deemed it a tax. Have fun with that, the economy the deficit, unemployment and a lame duck president. Same goes for you Vicki and lwien.I'll go ahead and use your stupid line "Deflection noted."
Should I call you fascist too? That's a great way to further a conversation. But lwien already pointed out how you don't actually want discourse, just vitriol, and I'm all out of that.
At the end of the day the conservative supreme court agreed that it's constitutional. Blame Bush, he appointed Roberts...
See you all in November.
Big shit storm heading your way.
Vicki
Herbal Alchemist
WTF???? I have said nothing since my last post because I said what I needed to get off my chest, NOTHING POLITICAL. Why do you keep trying to bait me into an argument?? I have never bad mouthed you, yet you continue to come after me. Now, you are just being a bully, and I refuse to speak to you anymore about this. I will not sit here and be ridiculed and baited into yet another argument over politics, again, just because I am happy I can't be dropped from my insurance now! IT'S FUCKED UP!!!!
BigDaddyVapor
@BigDogJunction
I was replying to your agreement.
I also challenge you to back up, any of your accusations.
I've told you repeatedly, you don't know what's in the law. If that hurts your feelings, suck it up.
You all have been slinging the party line deflection, dismissal, belittling, ignoring. Sorry if exposing it, hurts you.
I hope you find treatment for you pre-existing condition.
Save your sob story of being singled out and persecuted, for someone else. Why the fuck should I respect any of your opinions, when you won't even educate yourself on the two thousand page "healthcare" law and I'm just some heartless, tea-bagging fascist. Btw... You all started the name-calling, so spare that one to.
I also challenge you to back up, any of your accusations.
I've told you repeatedly, you don't know what's in the law. If that hurts your feelings, suck it up.
You all have been slinging the party line deflection, dismissal, belittling, ignoring. Sorry if exposing it, hurts you.
I hope you find treatment for you pre-existing condition.
Save your sob story of being singled out and persecuted, for someone else. Why the fuck should I respect any of your opinions, when you won't even educate yourself on the two thousand page "healthcare" law and I'm just some heartless, tea-bagging fascist. Btw... You all started the name-calling, so spare that one to.
Vicki
Herbal Alchemist
Every human being deserves respect, and you have not hurt my feelings. But it is you that is belittling me, and everyone else, just because their/my opinion differs from yours. It's mean and nasty!! I have never bad mouthed you or attacked you, in any way, EVER, and I never EVER called you any names. Why do you keep coming after me????? I have accused no one of anything!! All I have EVER said is that I am happy I can no longer be dropped for a pre-existing condition, and you keep attacking me for saying that. What is wrong with you??????
t-dub
Vapor Sloth
Now, we are getting somewhere, the masks are finally starting to come off . . .
Actually socialists and fascists are quite similar, thats why the Nazi flag was on a red field, they were the "national socialist" party after all, so I believe calling him something a little further to the right might be what you were aiming for . . .
aesthyrian
Blaaaaah
They sure did. And a constitutional one at that. How's the truth twisted?
Haha dude I was using Fascist sarcastically after you began calling everyone a Socialist. I tried to make that obvious in my post. But if you want to "twist the truth" and say we are calling you a Fascist.. well whatever man. Or does twisting the truth only work when applied to other people?
And seriously Vicki, stop your fucking sobbing, just shut up and deal with it like BDV does...
t-dub
Vapor Sloth
I just want to remind you guys that when the government is paying for your healthcare they can insist on a piss test when you get services. What are you going to do when the government denies your benefits because you test positive, or worse yet, throws you in jail . . . then there is this vaccine you NEED to get, in the interest of public health of course, since WE are paying for your care after all . . .
Medical cannabis patients are getting thrown out of public housing I hear . . .
Public Housing Discriminates Against Marijuana Patients
And lets not forget the enforcement and collections division . . .
Medical cannabis patients are getting thrown out of public housing I hear . . .
Public Housing Discriminates Against Marijuana Patients
And lets not forget the enforcement and collections division . . .
Vicki
Herbal Alchemist
And seriously Vicki, stop your fucking sobbing, just shut up and deal with it like BDV does...
Who's sobbing? I'm just happy I now have protection, that's all.
jackmormon
Well-Known Member
Good point t-dub! Another tell tale sign of things to come:
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/heal...-denies-transplant-medical-marijuana-patient#
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/heal...-denies-transplant-medical-marijuana-patient#
BigDaddyVapor
@BigDogJunction
Happy Dependence Day!
http://pjmedia.com/andrewklavan/2012/07/02/happy-dependence-day/
3... 2... 1...
Before some socialist cradle to grave entitlement Ozombie, dismisses because of the source.
We're only supposed to believe Dan Rather, Walter Cronkite (oops, he's worm food) and Keith Olbermann.
Oops, forgot Ed Schultz... The bastion of truth. Maybe I'll tune into MSNBC, so they can tell me, what revisionist history July 4th means now.
http://pjmedia.com/andrewklavan/2012/07/02/happy-dependence-day/
3... 2... 1...
Before some socialist cradle to grave entitlement Ozombie, dismisses because of the source.
We're only supposed to believe Dan Rather, Walter Cronkite (oops, he's worm food) and Keith Olbermann.
Oops, forgot Ed Schultz... The bastion of truth. Maybe I'll tune into MSNBC, so they can tell me, what revisionist history July 4th means now.
WatTyler
Revolting Peasant
America's actually not such a bad place- it got fairly rigorous due process in place and a fair level of transparency and scrutiny of public affairs. It's far from perfect, but comparatively it's not so bad. Whilst it's perhaps true that in theory some of that stuff could happen, but what makes you so sure or even afraid that it will? It's not hard to keep healthcare separate from other government activities. The USA isn't going to crumble into some kind of North Korea like nation just because of a few changes. Americans won't let it. Let's face it- they've had to be dragged kicking and screaming to get this far.
And why should increased government input on public health care mean a loss of ethical consideration leading to forced vaccination or denial of services? On the contrary IMO. The role of ethics is mandated and increased. I have never been forced into any vaccine by my government, nor have I ever had any services threatened to be denied. I will be treated unconditionally, equally and fairly by the health service to the best of their ability regardless of what I do
Yeah, that's a private company doing that. And they're being a bit preemptive- the feds didn't offer any instruction for action, just that they could evict if they wanted to. And they are a lot more free to make that asshole choice than the government (just like with healthcare); surely the government could never implement such a policy of eviction on a broad scale in its own name- there would be outcry at the amount of people denied access to housing through such a direct policy, and it would create a huge social problem. This is a bit different to raiding a dispensary. It would alienate the electorate by pushing them too far from their true feelings towards MMJ. This current way it's enabling the private sector to lever the persecution on behalf of the feds in a less overt and probably more effective manner.
BigDaddyVapor
@BigDogJunction
Brilliant minds... "I won't ever have to worry about seeing a doctor again..."
Remind anyone of that famous viral video? "I won't have to worry about putting gas in my car, or paying my rent..." Famous last words, before reality.
Oh yeah... No one bothered to take on my point that the right consistently and overwhelmingly gives more money AND time to charity and those less fortunate... leaving the left pathetically in the dust. Historical fact.
I can understand not wanting to touch that one, after firmly lodging your keyboard in your mouth.
Remind anyone of that famous viral video? "I won't have to worry about putting gas in my car, or paying my rent..." Famous last words, before reality.
Oh yeah... No one bothered to take on my point that the right consistently and overwhelmingly gives more money AND time to charity and those less fortunate... leaving the left pathetically in the dust. Historical fact.
I can understand not wanting to touch that one, after firmly lodging your keyboard in your mouth.
WatTyler
Revolting Peasant
Don't knock it till you've tried it. A lot of people would rather be in that que than suffering- it might well save their life. Wait a little, or nothing.....?
And which wing of the spectrum has the most disposable money hoarded? Average age? Don't pretend there's not much more to it than just left or right. Not sure exactly what point you're trying to make. (edit: also, what's the study? How did they define left/right, or is this a party political thing? I cant be bothered to pick holes in it, but would like to read for interest).
But the hard fact is charity does NOT fill the gap and is uncertain. The left elects to do something real and concrete about it.
aesthyrian
Blaaaaah
I was kidding, of course. I just couldn't believe that was actually said.
Vicki
Herbal Alchemist
NateHevens
Rises, The Dark Knight
EPIC MULTIQUOTE POWERS! ENGAGE! (part 1)
You know what? You're right. I'm sorry I made that comment. It was wrong and needlessly belittling.
Not as an excuse, or a defense... but I've dealt with a lot of dogmatic, small-minded people who make claims like "I used to be an atheist" and "I used to be a liberal" in the hopes that it will make them look like they know what they're talking about when they start bashing either (or both, in a lot of cases) with insults, invectives, and a lot of untrue bullshit. I've become quite cynical, quite misanthropic, towards such claims, and find them harder and harder to believe.
But I apologize. I was wrong to say that to you, out of nowhere. I hope you can forgive me.
But I still want to know what you (and others who are more conservative/libertarian) think of the point I made about how there are no liberals in US politics. I still stand by that statement and the more I look at the US government, the more it is confirmed to me. The US is just too damned conservative to allow true liberals to get into office.
Exactly right. Although I do like Rachel Maddow, MSNBC really is the liberal Fox. I actually get my news mainly from the Internet, the Daily Show, and the Colbert Report. I also watch the Young Turks, and occasionally the BBC. I watch Bill O'Reilly (He's the least annoying on Fox, IMO... although he can be insanely stupid... we can't explain the tides? I mean... seriously? We figured that out back in the fucking 1800's... come on now, Bill) and local Fox news, as well, every once in while.
The internet is becoming the best source for news, now... which is actually rather sad. To make things worse, Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert are the most trusted name in the news and the most trusted pundit consecutively in this country right now, especially amongst young people. Now, I love both of them and watch their shows religiously, but if that isn't pathetic, then I don't know what is.
I live in Boca Raton, FL. My dad is one of the Hazzans at Bnai Torah congregation. Those members I've talked to seem pretty evenly split between liberal and conservative... and there's no predicting it, either. There's no way to tell who's liberal and who's conservative just by looking at them, as the splits seem (in my statistically insignificant experience) pretty much even in both old and young people in the congregation. so you have to really talk to them to get their political views.
And if I can't afford to, because the place I'm working for doesn't offer any and they aren't paying me enough to afford it?
What then? I'm fucked?
I don't think it's possible to disagree with you any more than I do right now.
Health Insurance ties in to the right to life that every living being on this planet by default has.
In another few years it will be quite simple to argue that the internet is a basic right because it's one of the most effective communication and education tools around.
Seeing as how one simply cannot survive without a cell phone in first-world countries today, I think they are becoming a basic necessity, at the very least.
And a college education?
Are you kidding me?
Fuck the past. I'm sorry, but fuck it. I really don't give two rat shits if people from the 1950's got by with a GED. The world has changed. You will, in less than five years, see that a fucking Bachelor's is required to flip burgers at fucking McDonald's. It's getting to the point that a person cannot make a living without at least a Bachelor's. College is becoming a mandatory necessity, whether you like it or not.
Back in 2010 I lost a position at Starbuck's as a cashier to a woman with a Master's degree in Business and a second one in Accounting. Granted, she now manages all the Starbucks in West Palm Beach, but that doesn't detract from the point I'm making.
This is how a college education is becoming unavoidable. If a young person wants to get by in this world today with enough money to get themselves into an apartment as opposed to a mobile trailer, then they have to go to college. They literally have no choice.
Sorry, but this is simply what a growing number of companies are expecting from its workforce, now.
I agree with you except... Hannity a moderate?
Please tell me you're joking. A moderate?
If Hannity's a moderate, than so is Olbermann.
It's called "Liberal Libertarianism". I'm an economic liberal and a social libertarian, in that I don't want the government telling me what I can do with my own body and my own life, and I also don't trust the free market... like, at all... to regulate itself, or... really... do anything ethical... without being forced to. Left to its guns the market will not help to protect the environment, it will not look into cleaner energy, it will not give a flying fuck about the consumer. Left to their own devices, CEOs will do everything in their power to do one thing: make shit-tons of money by basically stealing from everyone else; creating monopolies, lying about their products... that is what the market does unless told it can't. Corporations have to be forced to act ethically, otherwise they won't.
So yeah, I'm an economic liberal, because the only way we'll ever see competition in the market is when corporations have no other choice.
It doesn't hit business. Business will just drive up the price of oil and make us pay for it. I'm with Obama in wanting to find cleaner energy, but driving up the cost of the energy we already use is fucking stupid. Green energy could create a boatload of jobs. This is how an energy policy should work... not by raising energy costs.
Yeah, I think it's about time the US got off gasoline and moved to electric cars and other fuel, but that will not be achieved by driving up prices. It's achieved by a) not taking anymore money from corporations like Exxon and BP (who will do everything in their power to keep us on gasoline and gasoline alone for decades to come), and b) basically creating a whole new industry to investigate, harvest, and create greener energy solutions, like electric, algae, wind, solar, and so on.
You know what? You're right. I'm sorry I made that comment. It was wrong and needlessly belittling.
Not as an excuse, or a defense... but I've dealt with a lot of dogmatic, small-minded people who make claims like "I used to be an atheist" and "I used to be a liberal" in the hopes that it will make them look like they know what they're talking about when they start bashing either (or both, in a lot of cases) with insults, invectives, and a lot of untrue bullshit. I've become quite cynical, quite misanthropic, towards such claims, and find them harder and harder to believe.
But I apologize. I was wrong to say that to you, out of nowhere. I hope you can forgive me.
But I still want to know what you (and others who are more conservative/libertarian) think of the point I made about how there are no liberals in US politics. I still stand by that statement and the more I look at the US government, the more it is confirmed to me. The US is just too damned conservative to allow true liberals to get into office.
Exactly right. Although I do like Rachel Maddow, MSNBC really is the liberal Fox. I actually get my news mainly from the Internet, the Daily Show, and the Colbert Report. I also watch the Young Turks, and occasionally the BBC. I watch Bill O'Reilly (He's the least annoying on Fox, IMO... although he can be insanely stupid... we can't explain the tides? I mean... seriously? We figured that out back in the fucking 1800's... come on now, Bill) and local Fox news, as well, every once in while.
The internet is becoming the best source for news, now... which is actually rather sad. To make things worse, Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert are the most trusted name in the news and the most trusted pundit consecutively in this country right now, especially amongst young people. Now, I love both of them and watch their shows religiously, but if that isn't pathetic, then I don't know what is.
I live in Boca Raton, FL. My dad is one of the Hazzans at Bnai Torah congregation. Those members I've talked to seem pretty evenly split between liberal and conservative... and there's no predicting it, either. There's no way to tell who's liberal and who's conservative just by looking at them, as the splits seem (in my statistically insignificant experience) pretty much even in both old and young people in the congregation. so you have to really talk to them to get their political views.
And if I can't afford to, because the place I'm working for doesn't offer any and they aren't paying me enough to afford it?
What then? I'm fucked?
I don't think it's possible to disagree with you any more than I do right now.
Health Insurance ties in to the right to life that every living being on this planet by default has.
In another few years it will be quite simple to argue that the internet is a basic right because it's one of the most effective communication and education tools around.
Seeing as how one simply cannot survive without a cell phone in first-world countries today, I think they are becoming a basic necessity, at the very least.
And a college education?
Are you kidding me?
Fuck the past. I'm sorry, but fuck it. I really don't give two rat shits if people from the 1950's got by with a GED. The world has changed. You will, in less than five years, see that a fucking Bachelor's is required to flip burgers at fucking McDonald's. It's getting to the point that a person cannot make a living without at least a Bachelor's. College is becoming a mandatory necessity, whether you like it or not.
Back in 2010 I lost a position at Starbuck's as a cashier to a woman with a Master's degree in Business and a second one in Accounting. Granted, she now manages all the Starbucks in West Palm Beach, but that doesn't detract from the point I'm making.
This is how a college education is becoming unavoidable. If a young person wants to get by in this world today with enough money to get themselves into an apartment as opposed to a mobile trailer, then they have to go to college. They literally have no choice.
Sorry, but this is simply what a growing number of companies are expecting from its workforce, now.
I agree with you except... Hannity a moderate?
Please tell me you're joking. A moderate?
If Hannity's a moderate, than so is Olbermann.
It's called "Liberal Libertarianism". I'm an economic liberal and a social libertarian, in that I don't want the government telling me what I can do with my own body and my own life, and I also don't trust the free market... like, at all... to regulate itself, or... really... do anything ethical... without being forced to. Left to its guns the market will not help to protect the environment, it will not look into cleaner energy, it will not give a flying fuck about the consumer. Left to their own devices, CEOs will do everything in their power to do one thing: make shit-tons of money by basically stealing from everyone else; creating monopolies, lying about their products... that is what the market does unless told it can't. Corporations have to be forced to act ethically, otherwise they won't.
So yeah, I'm an economic liberal, because the only way we'll ever see competition in the market is when corporations have no other choice.
It doesn't hit business. Business will just drive up the price of oil and make us pay for it. I'm with Obama in wanting to find cleaner energy, but driving up the cost of the energy we already use is fucking stupid. Green energy could create a boatload of jobs. This is how an energy policy should work... not by raising energy costs.
Yeah, I think it's about time the US got off gasoline and moved to electric cars and other fuel, but that will not be achieved by driving up prices. It's achieved by a) not taking anymore money from corporations like Exxon and BP (who will do everything in their power to keep us on gasoline and gasoline alone for decades to come), and b) basically creating a whole new industry to investigate, harvest, and create greener energy solutions, like electric, algae, wind, solar, and so on.