Is an 'isolated air path' really important?

[OF]

The topic of the (known?) advantage of an 'isolated vapor path', or even better an 'isolated air path' being an important feature comes up from time to time. Currently WRT Solo II. In the past I've questioned this on various vape threads from time to time when it was a popular topic, asking for any scientific evidence of it's importance. I'm not even sure what the supposed risk is, some mysterious vapors from hot electronics?

I've pointed out that the computer I use certainly is a bigger threat if it's real, being on longer, using more power and having a fan to blow the offending vapors around the room. Like the vents in TV sets and monitors must also do?

I've been unable to find any documentation of this risk, nor has anyone pointed to any. I think if it was a real risk makers would be using it a LOT in advertising to claim their vape was safer than the competitors. But that needs identification of the risk and testing of different models. Or the very real risk of law suits would block such claims? If, OTOH, the risk was not legitimate we'd end up just where we are......

So I've decided to ask what I hope is a broader audience here. Does anyone have any proof, or even evidence, that this is a risk worth our attention? Otherwise I fear we may have a 'red herring' scare driving health concerned Members away from otherwise excellent vapes they might explore.

Anyway, does anyone know, specifically, what threat to our health may exist here?

TIA. Best wishes to all for a healthy, happy and productive New Year.

OF

 

[lookhigh]

I think isolated is better for taste , you know warm microchip flavor.
When the vape has a isolated airpath it does sound more appealing.
Not sure if there are any health benefits.

 

[shredder]

It could be no one has done any credible studies on vaporisers.

I think we know metal fumes and plastic fumes are bad. And then there is off gassing of vape materials.

Electrical fumes? I guess you'd have to know exactly what they are. My guess would be from wire insulation.

With all the negativity concerning vapes in general because of e juice vapes, it's probably a good time for complete testing. Even though govt testing makes me nervous, and up to just lately they've ignored us.

We ussualy compare vaping with smoking. Maybe that's the wrong way to look at it.

 

[ensabbahnur]

So wait, you're really saying you do not see a benefit to say an all glass air path vs a metals/oxidization/circuitboards/wires/plastics/glue/anyotherrandomindustialchmeicalleftontheelectronics air path? Im not sure if you're trolling for the new year, but ill bite.

Comparing vaping air paths to a PC is, well horrible, but I get what you're trying to say. The vape air path is going to run hotter then most realistic warm exhaust your breathing from your PC, and perhaps more to the point, you can have a clean, isolated air path on your vape if you so choose, I don't know of many glass (using that as its easy to say its a healthy and clean air path material) sealed PC power supplies or flat screen TVs or the like.

If you're looking for a doctor or scientist to come out and certify that an air path with next to zero possible contamination from the air path material itself is better then an air path industrial materials obstacle course crap shoot........I don't see it happening as I don't really see its needed.

Unless Im totally misreading what you're asking.

 

[blackstone]

For me it is sometimes about flavor, sometimes about component failure and these days it shows a manufacturer is aware of where the game is at lately or maybe what people desire.

If you made a desktop vape and had 3 choices of where to take air from, do you take it from the middle of the room, outside the window, or inside the back of a TV?

I owned a Puffit 2 before that failed 6 times, many times in fault condition it was unable to read or process the temperature being measured and kept suppying heat to the oven until it combusted the load inside and melted/burned half the components and structural parts nearby as I inhaled until I noticed a problem through taste.
While it would be hard to isolate fully for that incident, it's nice to know that an airstream is outside many possible problem areas.

I thought the Solo 2 would be not too bad after all, but I have heard of people who have a broken OLED screen in there and still use the vape. That would make me think.

Then you had solder with lead and other potential debris.

Of course it's just expected that we should orientate some parts so they won't get too hot for what they're made of and if they do that no inhaled air should pass by them.
Those are my thoughts

 

[OF]

So wait, you're really saying you do not see a benefit to say an all glass air path vs a metals/oxidization/circuitboards/wires/plastics/glue/anyotherrandomindustialchmeicalleftontheelectronics air path? Im not sure if you're trolling for the new year, but ill bite.

No, I'm totally serious. There is no "all glass air path" I know of, do you? Metals, wiring, even the Lead in solders have never been shown to be a health issue at the temperatures the electronics run at (that I know of), or certainly the guys who work 40 hours a week in 'server farms' where there are thousands (millions?) of times bigger exposure would all be dead by now?

If you're looking for a doctor or scientist to come out and certify that an air path with next to zero possible contamination from the air path material itself is better then an air path industrial materials obstacle course crap shoot........I don't see it happening as I don't really see its needed.

Unless Im totally misreading what you're asking.

I agree, I see no need for such either, but research money being what it is it's sure to have been questioned? Such circuits work in vacuum systems without polluting them, I'd also expect vapor pressure and other statistical evidence there.

I think we're on the same page. Thanks.

For me it is sometimes about flavor, sometimes about component failure and these days it shows a manufacturer is aware of where the game is at lately or maybe what people desire.

If you made a desktop vape and had 3 choices of where to take air from, do you take it from the middle of the room, outside the window, or inside the back of a TV?

Then you had solder with lead and other potential debris.

I don't think it matters where the air is drawn from, provided the air you breathe 24/7 isn't. You're right, it's what the customer wants to hear.....and he's the guy who's always right?

As I said above, Lead at these temperatures has an unmeasurable vapor pressure (I know, I looked it up in CRC), the risk is mechanical, you get it on your fingers then put them in your mouth, smoke cigarettes or eat without washing. Guys working side by side on bullet casting machines or Linotype Operators who work 24/7 (around hundreds of pounds of melted Lead) sometimes get 'Leaded' (elevated Lead in the blood) while the guy next to them doesn't. It comes down to hygiene. I don't recommend licking PCBs.

Modern commercial solder is Lead free these days anyway. Tin and Silver now.

Thanks to you to for your 'take' on the issue.

OF

 

[shredder]

I agree, I see no need for such either, but research money being what it is it's sure to have been questioned?

If I'd just purchased a volcano hybrid, I'd sure like to see (independent) testing.

Probably a good idea to test Chinese made vapes too. The rep for shoddy materials being the reason.

 

[ensabbahnur]

Sure there are all glass air path vapes, pretty much any banger setup, the Smokestack that Rogueguy makes, Mobius Flowerpot, etc, unless I I don't understand what you mean by stressing AIR path, but all the examples I listed are totally source to end all glass.

Id be more concerned with the various plastics, glues and polymers used, also any possible residues left over from whatever possible things can be used in the industrial manufacturing process. Is there a guarantee any of these things are "not healthy", I think its all relative as referencing your example, some folks would be cool casting bullets for 40 years and others would not, solely based on perceptions of health. Some folks still like using a red hot chunk of titanium as their go to for dabs, some refuse to use anything but Healthstones and the like or all quartz setups(shrugs).

Im pretty firmly in the camp of non tin foil hat wearers that figure, if you can remove a potential risk, why not do it? And again, it comes down to the individual to decide whats healthy enough and whats practical enough.

 

[blackstone]

There is no "all glass air path" I know of, do you? ...........
........I don't think it matters where the air is drawn from, provided the air you breathe 24/7 isn't. You're right, it's what the customer wants to hear.....

There is the Elev8 but I think it has stainless screens, and it can be heated electrically with a coil.
Then the Flowerpot would be only titanium. But yeah for electronic portables, maybe only some of the convection wooden ones do that?

It's my belief that when you're drawing through a stem or air passage that is directed towards potential sources of anything, be it in normal, fault, or somehow deteriorated conditions that it then becomes an issue of parts per million inhaled. Compared to being in an open, larger, partially ventilated area with the same sources.
That might be why it's desirable to me.

I do see a point where someone might go too far in certain directions with inhalation safety, like I recently remembered my metalwork classes years ago! And later messing about with engines, welders and grinders. And I think the new generation are more aware or cautious than the old were.

My father is OK with his young grandson using a roaring handsaw with no safety gear or ear muffs, but I would stop that and get the earmuffs and gloves if I saw it.
Motorcyclists historically had difficulty with wearing of helmets, and drivers with seatbelts. But if you fall of a bike or are knocked off without a helmet on...?

Happy new year to you too bud! Thanks for all the wisdom on here!
Do you look forward to new releases from Arizer or any others this year?

 

[KeroZen]

So you are seriously asking if there are issues with VOCs in general and in particular with electronics and mass produced products ? I'll just quote the intro of the wikipedia article: "Harmful VOCs typically are not acutely toxic, but have compounding long-term health effects. Because the concentrations are usually low and the symptoms slow to develop, research into VOCs and their effects is difficult."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volatile_organic_compound

Actually it is studied and there is indeed stuff coming out of your LCD flat screen so I don't think it was the best analogy, see for instance >> https://www.fujitsu.com/global/Images/vol45-1-paper14.pdf

I also find that shoving my nose on the vents of my screen just stinks, and I would definitely never do any kind of chronic inhalation deep inside my lungs like we do with our vapes...

If you want to see what comes out of electronics components found on your average PCB, there are plenty of studies too, like >> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22239061

Many component packages are polymers, often plastics. Plastics are known to off-gas and leach their plasticizers over time, no need to remind you the BPA and phtalates disasters, those are getting banned whenever possible but it's just the tip of the iceberg...

Apparently there's even stuff coming out of the PCB material itself, at least when you try to dispose of it, but who knows if really 100% of it stays trapped inside under normal conditions? I wouldn't bet on it >> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22142243

And you mention the poor factory workers who should be exposed to that shit, but indeed they are, this is why strict measures are taken to filter the air, using carbon scrubbers and other advanced equipment, ex >> https://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=11055

I'll second what someone said above: if health is not a provable issue, then at least smell and taste alteration definitely is. We discussed this to death already in the Ascent thread where we demonstrated that obviously some people have less sensitive noses and are perfectly fine for instance with silicone whereas I just can't stand it and find that disgusting.

How many vapes are compared to "that new car smell" when unboxed? You know, we even like to call that the "robot fart" smell over here. Where do you think it comes from if not from VOCs used in manufacturing, coatings / paints, glues, electronics and packaging. If you smell it then it's off gassing. When you don't smell it anymore, you have inhaled it all lol.

No thanks! I prefer my entire air paths as clean and isolated as possible because I'm a flavor snob and I want to taste only my plants, not foreign compounds with hard to study potential toxicity and compounding long-term effects we don't really understand yet.

 

[Poostuff]

I think it’s important for longevity of the vaporizer. The air & vapor path puts out second hand vapor both ways & also some very fine AVB leftovers. I’d rather not have this on the electronics if it can be avoided.

I also agree with others & their likening this to taking a deep stinky breath from your computer vents, yum. While I don’t think it’s quite as bad as that it’s in the same vein.

Removing electronics & even more so all adhesives from air paths of vaporizers would be a great move in my view, to me that just seems like common sense.

Have we confirmed anything electronic with an isolated air path yet? I’d assume the Evo is after owning one for a while but I may be wrong.
The air is drawn from underneath via a glass tube separate from the electronics, so as long as it’s not sitting on a dusty table it should be clean.

 

[C No Ego]

Well I have used Fury vapes the last few years and that is isolated air path ... just a stainless steel air tube with an heater in there... electronics on the outside of heat tube ETC.... even with that people still complain about the material of heater in Fury2 , nichrome... the Fury edge has a stainless steel heater in that one

 

[Hippie Dickie]

considering how much i use my vaporizer, i wouldn't consider using a vape that doesn't have an all glass air path/vapor path … and temperature control. which is why i made one. and, hopefully a lot more than just one, real soon now.

 

[Shit Snacks]

I agree with others who focus on the taste and purity of the vapor, but also from my own experience with the original solo if there is not an isolated airpath there is indeed a risk: my first solo was defective and the board got fried in use, so as someone else said I was forced to inhale toxic vapor not realizing until I could taste the horrible plastic... Ever since then I always felt like my solo and air began to taste worse over time, and I believe it to be related to the non isolated path, personally... Thankfully there are so many other glass stem based vapes available now that are not only much more powerful and efficient, but also worlds more pure than Arizer's