Hex-Nail (HN-01) - RIP

[nickmo]

How's the first run going!

So far so good. Didn't have much time to play last night, but I've got the next 3 days to get well acquainted!

Any pics @nickmo ?

 

[ensabbahnur]

So far so good. Didn't have much time to play last night, but I've got the next 3 days to get well acquainted!

(as Saul Bloom from Oceans 11) ..........Thats the sexiest thing Ive ever seen.

LOL @ #globmode

Did you have any hiccups or issues during setup?

 

[nickmo]

As Ava just mentioned, setup was a bit frustrating for me initially. I am on Android, I was able to connect to the Hex-Nail AP just fine, but I couldn't get to the setup page in my browser (Chrome). It is noted in the included instructions that you may have to turn off mobile data. So I put my phone in Airplane Mode and only turned Wifi back on (effectively turning off the cellular connection / mobile data). I entered the address in the browser again, it hung for a moment, and took me to a Chrome warning page, I had to expand the advanced details and "Proceed at my own risk" or something like that which was fine, it brought me to setup page. Once on the setup page I was able to choose my Wifi and enter the password, it hung for a moment, and displayed a weird message in the log, but as advised in the setup I power cycled as it still may have worked. This time it started blinking and then went to solid Cyan (blue). I was up and running!

So far I have only tried my Liger v3 16mm w/ SiC insert. The 20mm + sapphire setup got an overnight ISO soak heading into the long weekend and I need my 25mm coil from the girls to try out my new opaque bottom banger. So I'm practicing on the 16 this morning. I should also add that I am using a High Five adapter for their coils as that is all I have until the rest of my order ships.

I started by using the Equipment settings 16mm coil and 16mm Liger w/ SiC, set at 525. First few dabs were fine. I did notice that the temperature fluctuates a lot more than I am used to. With my High Five Omron LCD ambient temps would maybe swing +/- about 3 degrees, and when I dab it would dip by 5 or more. On the Hex my ambient temps are swinging +/- more like 20/30 degrees. I'm not sure if it has something to do with my settings or not yet. But earlier in the thread I saw reference to a “unit tracking” setting (coil vs nail) but I don't see where that is. I also saw a post and video by @YabbaDABBAdo about adjusting his Tunings to get his fluctuation down to within 5 degrees, I want to get there!

So many dabs today in the name of science!

 

[muunch]

I am on Android, I was able to connect to the Hex-Nail AP just fine, but I couldn't get to the setup page in my browser (Chrome). It is noted in the included instructions that you may have to turn off mobile data. So I put my phone in Airplane Mode and only turned Wifi back on (effectively turning off the cellular connection / mobile data). I entered the address in the browser again, it hung for a moment, and took me to a Chrome warning page, I had to expand the advanced details and "Proceed at my own risk" or something like that which was fine, it brought me to setup page. Once on the setup page I was able to choose my Wifi and enter the password, it hung for a moment, and displayed a weird message in the log, but as advised in the setup I power cycled as it still may have worked. This time it started blinking and then went to solid Cyan (blue). I was up and running!

Should have specified this was my experience as well with android when getting started. Including that chrome page where you need to "proceed at your own risk"

I almost always get the connection error when setting up on a new network ... and powercycling the unit (a simple switch on/off - you don't need to unplug etc etc) usually fixes and it somehow ends up connected

It works fine for me just to click off mobile data and leave wifi on when attempting to get setup btw and also, you also need to use chrome - Firefox (whether on pc or mobile/etc) does not work.

Cheers, hope to hear more from you as you get dialed in. There are 3 temps displayed - one is coil temp, one is set temp and one is the calculated nail temp. I tend to disregard everything but the nail temp really (which ironically is the most well hidden of the 3 currently, with no way to change this afaik)

 

[nickmo]

There are 3 temps displayed - one is coil temp, one is set temp and one is the calculated nail temp. I tend to disregard everything but the nail temp really (which ironically is the most well hidden of the 3 currently, with no way to change this afaik)

Coil temp is the big one, set temp just below it, and nail temp is bottom right corner, correct? I just did a test with my Thermocouple to try to get a reading on the temps during one of the ambient temp swings. No dab, just reading the temp.

• Set point at 490
• Coil temp reading goes as low as 471 and as high as 520, about +/- 20 degrees
• Temp reading on the Tehrmocouple goes as low as 425 and as high as 467 (EDIT: my readings were in Kelvin)
  
• Calculated Nail temp reads anywhere from 397 and 492

The calculated nail temp doesn't seem very accurate to me, at least not on the 16mm Liger profile I am set to. The coil temp was reading a lot closer to my Thermocouple. And it does appear to be trying to stick to the 490 set point, when the coil temp got down to like 470 and the reading on the Thermocouple was like 492 it ramped itself back up to the point where coil temp was 520 and the Thermocouple reading was 515, it them brought itself back down. This is how it has been fluctuating, I'm going to ask for advice from the support@hex-nail.com see what they think, any user advice on settings/Tunings to try?

 

[ensabbahnur]

Coil temp is the big one, set temp just below it, and nail temp is bottom right corner, correct? I just did a test with my Thermocouple to try to get a reading on the temps during one of the ambient temp swings. No dab, just reading the temp.

• Set point at 490
• Coil temp reading goes as low as 471 and as high as 520, about +/- 20 degrees
• Temp reading on the Tehrmocouple goes as low as 492 and as high as 515
  
• Calculated Nail temp reads anywhere from 397 and 492

The calculated nail temp doesn't seem very accurate to me, at least not on the 16mm Liger profile I am set to. The coil temp was reading a lot closer to my Thermocouple. And it does appear to be trying to stick to the 490 set point, when the coil temp got down to like 470 and the reading on the Thermocouple was like 492 it ramped itself back up to the point where coil temp was 520 and the Thermocouple reading was 515, it them brought itself back down. This is how it has been fluctuating, I'm going to ask for advice from the support@hex-nail.com see what they think, any user advice on settings/Tunings to try?

Ive not been able to get my 02 unit fully up and running yet, going on 4hrs of solid trying, but I can say those fluctuations in temp are EXACTLY what my 01 unit has done since day 1 of me having it, my set point right with what Im dabbing today is 495 but it goes from 470-520, usually it can get semi stable around+-10 but very very rarely does it ever rest on my set temp or even +-5

 

[muunch]

I am used to having my coil set for around 570 and seeing a nail temp of 405~ using the settings @mutten840 gave me for 25mm bangers - this seems accurate for the performance I'm getting but I could be full of shit. I will try my thermocouple in just a sec. I had tried it previously (and posted my results here in the thread I believe, and it wasn't as much of a difference as you're currently noting)

I would assume the settings are just algorithms by which the nail temp is calculated... so that also opens the can of worms as to whether the nail temp is even an accurate measure to go by, or whether it's just there to look pretty and it's actual use is completely arbitrary...

So, regardless of the #s displayed, how are your dabs? Have you tried messing with the settings much beyond just setting the liger profile?

 

[HexNailAva]

Coil temp is the big one, set temp just below it, and nail temp is bottom right corner, correct? I just did a test with my Thermocouple to try to get a reading on the temps during one of the ambient temp swings. No dab, just reading the temp.

• Set point at 490
• Coil temp reading goes as low as 471 and as high as 520, about +/- 20 degrees
• Temp reading on the Tehrmocouple goes as low as 492 and as high as 515
  
• Calculated Nail temp reads anywhere from 397 and 492

The calculated nail temp doesn't seem very accurate to me, at least not on the 16mm Liger profile I am set to. The coil temp was reading a lot closer to my Thermocouple. And it does appear to be trying to stick to the 490 set point, when the coil temp got down to like 470 and the reading on the Thermocouple was like 492 it ramped itself back up to the point where coil temp was 520 and the Thermocouple reading was 515, it them brought itself back down. This is how it has been fluctuating, I'm going to ask for advice from the support@hex-nail.com see what they think, any user advice on settings/Tunings to try?

The combos you'll end up seeing the most fluctuation with are most likely the 16mm and 20mm Ligers. They're admittedly our roughest tunings and the dish temp accuracy is definitely still off.

One thing I'd actually suggest is try using just the coil tuning by itself and report back. Meaning in the tunings menu select 'No Nail' and see if things improve. It will wash your dish temp (but they need work right now).

If you feel like giving the PID tuning values some tweaks and find something that beats our current tuning by all means send it our way and we'll implement it for everyone. We even want to eventually start a program to incentivize folks to send us tunings that best our own. Remember one of the things we finally added in OS/2 was the ability to edit / save / override our tunings. It was a big one a few people have been looking for.

Some of the systems in place in OS/2 have definitely stabilized some things and we implemented some tunings that we received over the last year or so from members of the community but we've been wanting to improve these for awhile.

As soon as things stabilize a little from Round 2 we'll actually have time to use the new tech we have for testing and re-do the tunings. It should end up being more like the new 25mm tuning we added with OS/2 (which is kinda my baby it's the first I really locked in solo / manually).

EDIT: My first suggestion for trying your own tuning will be pull down 'kP', wait for it to stabilize (2 minutes or so) and go from there. Try turning off D completely, too. It can be...touchy?

EDIT 2: Looking at the emails from some folks now and will get Liz on some responses now.

EDIT 3: Just to confirm guys, AP Mode is for SET UP ONLY right now. The patch / app update coming for the HN-01 will also unlock AP Mode for regular use on the RQ.

 

[nickmo]

Thanks @HexNailAva, I'll try No Nail see how it goes.

I don't know how I would approach these tunings though! Anyone have any input on the impact of changing these values?

 

[ensabbahnur]

A few pics while I wait for assistance in getting her working, such a sexy unit in person, makes the hot to trot Kube look kinda plain even with its lights.....and thats impressive indeed

 

[muunch]

@ensabbahnur what issues are you having? you can pm me if you want


sweet setup btw!

I definitely prefer the looks of the HN-02 to the cube. Don't like the flashy lights - the lightbar is more than enough, and the small footprint on the HN is preferred as well!

I might have to hunt for a HN-01 eventually though, they are really really nice looking

 

[thezatokid]

When I first received my kube I was somewhat surprised at how small it seemed. In hind site I can't imagine it being any larger, and the hn-02 looks small next to that kube! (@ensabbahnur love that natural finish.. walnut is looking sweet as well)

 

[nickmo]

Thanks @HexNailAva, the "No Nail" setting seems WAY more stable for me on my Liger already. Coil temp is now resting within 2 degrees of the set point and the calculated nail temp is no longer showing. Now for a few test dabs to see how it reacts, in the name of science!

 

[HexNailAva]

We're happy to announce the coils should arrive Monday!

This weekend is going to be a big one for us & we will be sending out a bunch of tracking numbers throughout. Come Monday there will be quite a few folks with units on the way.

This also means that those of you that ordered a 25mm coil will be getting your numbers as well. I'm going to try to get them in the mail by Tuesday.

Thank you all again for your patience!

​

 

[just_the_flu]

First few dabs were fine. I did notice that the temperature fluctuates a lot more than I am used to. With my High Five Omron LCD ambient temps would maybe swing +/- about 3 degrees, and when I dab it would dip by 5 or more. On the Hex my ambient temps are swinging +/- more like 20/30 degrees.

...this was my expierence with any nail setting... in the master settings i turned off the 'steadystate compsnsator' and that seemed to help somewhat...

 

[pxl_jockey]

Moment of Easter Randomness

When my kids were little, the reboot of Scooby Doo happened and they were way into it, and watched it the way kids do. One of their favourite episodes features a female goth-rock trio called The Hex Girls, they were also an actual, factual mini-coven of witches with an eco agenda. EcoWiccans who will rock your face off!

Because I was subjected to all of this "enhanced interrogation-style", I still remember one line from one of their "hits". I don't want to remember it; but here it goes:

#'Cause we're the Hex Girls, and we're gonna put a spell on you!#

Whenever I see or think of HexNail or @HexNailAva or @HexNailLiz this little snippet is instantly played inside my dome. I'm not calling you ladies witches or anything, just that in my mind, you guys rock!

 

[ensabbahnur]

Moe size comparison shots, now with Errlectric

 

[muunch]

@ensabbahnur I take it from the light ring that you're still having issues?

 

[pxl_jockey]

Can we all come over (in small groups of course) and play with all your toys, I mean tools. This is some seriously serious scientific research equipment, is what I mean. You could set stations up around the crib. @ensabbahnur and his High Desert research facility! Maybe some government grants in your future?

 

[ensabbahnur]

@ensabbahnur I take it from the light ring that you're still having issues?

Sadly we are still working through them, Im almost there I feel, its like the internal server doesn't like me or something, I can almost get it to work remotely but the local AP setup isn't connecting right at all.

I have faith as Ive seen it work in the vids posted earlier and it has heated up a coil (much to my surprise)

Did I mention how sexy it is in person??? I know YOU know but its worth rementioning

 

[muunch]

Dang, was hoping I would have been of some help. Hope you get setup soon.

It's definitely one of the nicest pieces I have. Makes me realize how crappy looking the default controller that comes with the flowerpot is.

Also, green LED will definitely heat up coil. I guess it's useless if you can't see temps/anything etc, but you can definitely dab off it when it's green LED (I have) but I guess if you haven't gotten in at all yet, you don't even know what temp it's at.

 

[lazylightning]

I received my HN-02 yesterday afternoon and spent about an hour getting it set up. I sat in my living room about 20' from my Apple Extreme router and had to power the Hex-Nail off and on a few times when things hung, but I got everything set up with pretty minimal hassles.

I ordered the Walnut finish but think I received Cherry? Anyone who's good with woods might be able to tell from the pic below. The background surface is a walnut finished table.

So far the Liger 20mm with sapphire preset at 580 seems to give the best hits with my .03 to .04 rosin dabs. When I look at temps they are frequently pretty far off the set point. With the Auber I just took a hit when I felt like it but now I find myself kind of obsessing about the coil and nail temps when they vary 20-30 degrees from the set point.

Do I start a hit when the coil temps are 20-30 degrees higher or lower than what I want or wait a minute or more sometimes for them to get at least within 10 degrees of set point? Do I start a hit when temps are under set point and rising or over set point and falling? What is the point of uptemp if temps are always rising and falling pretty quickly anyway?

When I try the 10 degree uptemp mode, I watch the timer count down and the temp doesn't change more than 5 degrees so I'm not sure how much value there is to that. Maybe the Liger settings need more tuning or maybe I need to be educated about how to use the Hex-Nail. It seems to work as well as my Auber but so far I'm not feeling like it's really better in any way.

 

[ensabbahnur]

I received my HN-02 yesterday afternoon and spent about an hour getting it set up. I sat in my living room about 20' from my Apple Extreme router and had to power the Hex-Nail off and on a few times when things hung, but I got everything set up with pretty minimal hassles.

I ordered the Walnut finish but think I received Cherry? Anyone who's good with woods might be able to tell from the pic below. The background surface is a walnut finished table.

So far the Liger 20mm with sapphire preset at 580 seems to give the best hits with my .03 to .04 rosin dabs. When I look at temps they are frequently pretty far off the set point. With the Auber I just took a hit when I felt like it but now I find myself kind of obsessing about the coil and nail temps when they vary 20-30 degrees from the set point.

Do I start a hit when the coil temps are 20-30 degrees higher or lower than what I want or wait a minute or more sometimes for them to get at least within 10 degrees of set point? Do I start a hit when temps are under set point and rising or over set point and falling? What is the point of uptemp if temps are always rising and falling pretty quickly anyway?

When I try the 10 degree uptemp mode, I watch the timer count down and the temp doesn't change more than 5 degrees so I'm not sure how much value there is to that. Maybe the Liger settings need more tuning or maybe I need to be educated about how to use the Hex-Nail. It seems to work as well as my Auber but so far I'm not feeling like it's really better in any way.

That definitely doesn't look like mine, sexy as F, but definitely not Walnut.

Does your Airport do class A or C ips?

Have you had a chance to get AP mode working at all?

Is your tray metal or plastic?

As far as uptemping with the Ligers go, I can't see how a 10 second boost will do anything at all due to the mass of the nail, I have mine set to 30 and still don't see things hitting exactly (on HN01)

 

[lazylightning]

That definitely doesn't look like mine, sexy as F, but definitely not Walnut.

Does your Airport do class A or C ips?

Have you had a chance to get AP mode working at all?

Is your tray metal or plastic?

As far as uptemping with the Ligers go, I can't see how a 10 second boost will do anything at all due to the mass of the nail, I have mine set to 30 and still don't see things hitting exactly (on HN01)

My Airport router assigns class C IPs.

What's AP mode? Guess I don't have it working.

My tray is plastic.

Once you pointed out the futility of uptemping a mass like the Liger it made immediate sense. I'll have to try that with my 25mm quartz banger tomorrow.

 

[ensabbahnur]

My Airport router assigns class C IPs.

What's AP mode? Guess I don't have it working.

My tray is plastic.

Once you pointed out the futility of uptemping a mass like the Liger it made immediate sense. I'll have to try that with my 25mm quartz banger tomorrow.

AP mode is where the Queen isn't connected to your wifi at all and you instead connect to its wifi (the Queen will flash green) and internal server. This is what I intend to be my primary mode of usage, while I like all the iot features it has, they shouldn't be mandatory and Im fairly certain they are not.