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Gear Health Stone Glass - Vapor Slides

Discussion in 'Concentrates' started by Mr. Smoke No More, Dec 11, 2010.

  1. SalamiCity

    SalamiCity Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    147

    Uh... Do you know what you're talking about? Combustion means fire, burning, you're not burning anything, first off. When you do oil on TI, Quartz, or glass, you're getting it hot, then dab, it's called flash vaporization, NOT combustion. There is no combustion, and if you bring it too close you'll just heat it up too hot and it will probably just boil off, do you combust water when you heat it? No it vaporizes. You should use your torch away from the stone, and it will heat up and flash vape. The only argument you have is if the oil has plant matter in it, which is probably the case with the one dude who had "ash." Sometimes when I dab I get some particles, but it depends what I make it out of. There is a clear difference between combustion and vaping, if it was combust, you would know.
  2. MikRoOrganix

    MikRoOrganix Erlhead!

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    Location:
    Midwest
    There is a method to clean the stone on the Vapor Genie website. Basically it involves turning on a shop vac, holding the stone gently with pliers over the suction and using a torch to make the stone red hot. This should not be needed unless the stone becomes full of soot which is usually only caused by a bic and having the flame pulled directly into the stone which leaves behind a soot deposit.
  3. OO

    OO Technical Skeptical

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    Paraphernalia Museum

    what?
    [​IMG]

    water is a product of the combustion of hydrogen, it's already fully combusted, so of course it won't combust, there's no energy benefit to bond another oxygen.

    at least not through combustion.

    but oil on the other hand can combust, and result in a more stable product as a result, making it a favorable reaction.

    do YOU know what YOU'RE talking about?
  4. SalamiCity

    SalamiCity Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    147
    http://witcombe.sbc.edu/water/chemistryelectrolysis.html

    Combining molecules is combustion now? You need some form of energy to combust something, like in this link I sent you. There is nothing to combust, you're flash vaping. Another person argued the same as you, saying when you're vaping you're "combusting" triches, but you're not, there is nothing to combust, unless you make shitty oil, but that's your fault. You can taste combustion, and feel it, compared to vaporizing, do you realize this or not?
  5. OO

    OO Technical Skeptical

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    Location:
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    let me educate you, because you haven't spent the time or money to get a good one yourself.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combustion

    oxygen is an oxidating agent. (I.E. oxidant).

    the energy you spoke of is present in the form of heat being generated by torch flame.

    hash oil is a crude hydrocarbon mixture, the chemicals present don't ignite like a volatile fuel like most people are used to seeing.

    trichomes are absolutely combustable, they're comprised of hydrocarbons which can exist in a more stable state when combined with oxygen and releasing energy.

    nowhere have i said that when vaping you are combusting trichomes.
    if you're combusting the trichomes you may be vaporizing some of them, but you are also combusting others. that all depends on the efficiency of the burn.
    if you're vaporizing them properly, there shouldn't be any burning.
    [​IMG]
  6. SalamiCity

    SalamiCity Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    147
    Obviously, you said you combust by combining them lmfao, but okay. Obviously you can combust triches, but that's when you combust the entire plant itself lol. I've already spoken to a Scientist, and he's on here, refer to NTD-Sensei.

    K that is called "Flash Vaporization" again there is nothing to combust, stop using combustion as a scientific term, as it's not burning anything, there is no residue left over, unless you have particulates in your oil, which then you suck ass, there is no combustion, and you cannot combust oil, unless you're saying every method combusts then, because it's the same thing chief.
  7. OO

    OO Technical Skeptical

    Messages:
    1,167
    Location:
    Paraphernalia Museum
    [​IMG]
    combustion is a scientific term.
    i will continue to use it as such as long as it supports my argument.
    the gaps in your logic are ginormous, as is the confidence the you are exuding in the thought of yourself being correct.

    you do not know what you are speaking about, so please quit now.

    you can combust oil.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activation_energy

    it takes far more energy to activate the reaction between hash oil and oxygen than it does to initiate the reaction between the propane and oxygen composing the flame in the picture.

    this does not mean that it is impossible to achieve this level of energy, in fact it is easily achievable, you have the ability to do so with a lighter, which releases heat.

    your assumption that anything that is combustable must combust in the presence of heat is false.
    you need to overcome activation energy first.

    prove to me that this activation energy has not been exceeded, and you will have won the debate, that the hash oil has not been combusted.
  8. MikRoOrganix

    MikRoOrganix Erlhead!

    Messages:
    63
    Location:
    Midwest
    Your mastery of thread pictures and scientific principles cannot be denied. ;) Respectably I would limit this conversation to the applications of vaping bud or oil. Yes oil can be burnt or lit on fire; it is physically possible.

    If you limit this debate to the application of dabbing oil onto hot TI, quartz or glass I would vigorously debate that the oil is boiling and not combusting. This is the argument that I feel is most crucial to the so-called 'oil vape debate'.

    I feel we have established that when using a torch over a HealthStone it is possible to combust the oil if you contact the oil directly with the flame of the torch. I also feel I have made my point that when using only the heat, not the flame of the torch, I am vaping the oil. I am confident no combustion is occurring.

    I only posted here because I felt the HealthStone was getting a bum rap when no one had ever even bothered to try the device. No first hand user experiences was being represented at all! I am not here to debate basic principles of vaping vs smoking.
  9. SalamiCity

    SalamiCity Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    147
    YO billnyetheclownguy you need to chill out over there man. No one gives a crap about all this science you're trying to prove. You're wrong, just face it, it's vaporization NOT combustion. You can obviously combust oil, but it's not this oil, you're wrong, it's not combustion, and you can taste it, but you're crazy and think you will combust, so you should just go back to your PD, wait an hour for it to heat up, and enjoy your combustion.

    mod note: I think you need to chill out yourself. Either discuss the topic in a civil manner, or post elsewhere.
  10. OO

    OO Technical Skeptical

    Messages:
    1,167
    Location:
    Paraphernalia Museum
    [​IMG]

    ^great game series btw, the monsters sub series blew pokemon away.


    mod note: Calling another member a troll is considered flaming, and against the rules, as you should know.
  11. djonkoman

    djonkoman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,608
    everything I was going to say OO already said
    only thing I can still say wich is maybe good to repeat another time is:
    combustion/burning is just a chemical reaction, one that requires an activation energy(flame), and it's an oxidationreaction(by wich I mean that combustion is oxidation, but oxidation doesn't have to be combustion)
    as OO said boiling(and vaporizing) is only possible if the chemical can't be oxidized, or if the boiling point(wich is also the vaporisation point) is below the combustion temp. (wich is the temp at wich the activation energy is big enough to activate combustion)
    in the case of weed this second is the case, so heating to a very high temp(redhot stone) will always result in some combustion, altough I think that the absorption does help to lessen the combustion, but it will never be the same as pure vaporisation
  12. Persona Non Grata

    Persona Non Grata turn on, tune in, hulk out

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    88
    Location:
    Canada
    [​IMG]

    I'm not smart enough to pretend to understand this flash vaporization vs. combustion argument. which could make for an interesting debate in a separate thread.

    I think with proper use this health stone glass would be vaporization, but what do I know.
    aesthyrian likes this.
  13. x-sploit

    x-sploit Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    19
    Regarding that a torch tastes like butane,it doesn't,when i use a torch i taste NO butane at ALL. The butane is being burnt off,unlike a bic lighter. I even use a torch when combusting and i still find it tastes way better than a bic,especially when you hold it away from the bowl,theres no way your getting butane.
  14. captainhits

    captainhits Well-Known Member Retailer

    Messages:
    210
    Location:
    CA
    ive used one and it makes your killer wax taste like burnt shit (because youre combusting it). Whoever dosent think you can combust something with no plant matter needs to take a torch to some and watch it burn and smoke. There is a huge difference between direct heat and direct flame, that being combustion.
  15. aero18

    aero18 vaporist

    Messages:
    776
    Location:
    Seattle WA

    It is a lipid.
  16. jay253

    jay253 Active Member

    Messages:
    5
    I love this health stone bowl.... but i should have got a clear one in 18 mm for more surface space heres why...... ,I tryed some very good quality bho like in the utube videos it was to smokey for me,....so i put a screen inside it and some full melt bubble that was ground to a powder in a coffee grinder and then used it like a vg vape... works great.. its like 10 to 20 percent smoke and vapor the rest, Depending on the distance from the torch. You can use herb smothered in keif too...... dont use keif alone though turn it into bubble first is the best... ,this HS gives a great flavor and makes the bong smell hella good its different from my budda and box type vapes in flavor and more similar to the light bulb method in flavor... the bubble tends to fallinto the center of the screen so the 18mm version would hold more giveing a bigger vap i get one or two tokes then i scrap off the yellow oil and cook with it or have a friend who smokes use it you could get many many tokes from it but it requires more heat after a couple times so its a little harsher even when i smoked i would load small to get a green flavor almost every time my friends just didnt get it and would load a bag in two bowls and you only get 2 tasty hits and alot of stuff to finish off.
  17. Extraction

    Extraction Active Member

    Messages:
    1
    The ceramic filter is the same size on the 14mm as it is on the 18mm

    First vaporizer, first review, first post. The Health Stone Glass. :o

    The very first thing I tried was placing a filter on the bottom of the bowl and loosely packing some grind-ed herb on top of it below the ceramic filter (like a Vapor Genie as someone mentioned above). I put the HSG bowl into a bubbler for a smoother vapor hit. Using a torch lighter (single torch, I'm waiting on a triple torch to arrive) I heated the ceramic filter for only a few seconds, and then continued to inhale, after the torch is turned off, producing incredibly smooth and large vapor hits. There is a bit of practice/learning curve to get this to work properly however. It's easy to over heat the ceramic filter causing the herb to turn black/combust, so being conservative with the torch pays off. Mixing of the bowl is necessary between every couple of hits, but the bowl packed may be small or large. I was able to create mostly ALL golden brown vaped herb on my very first attempt using this device, so the learning curve isn't outrageous. I am very pleased with the results so far.

    I decided to try some full melt on top of the ceramic filter as the device is sold/intended for, and let me tell you it did not disappoint. I have used glass/Ti nails and swings and the HSG seems to be so far the easiest and direct method for a quick oil hit that I have tried. The taste is nice and the vapor is thick/satisfying. However, as with most common methods of using oils, there is usually some smoke/combustion, so my next attempt will be to place a liquid pad filter on the bottom of the bowl (similar to how I vaped the herb) in attempt to vaporize the oil completely. Seeing as others have already tried this with success with the HSG, I am sure I will be pleased with hose results as well and I may not even use the top loader function as much as this "added bonus feature"/"hack" of bottom loading the Health Stone Glass.

    Do the people at HSG know that their top loading pipe works great (for vaporizing herbs and oils) as a bottom loader too? It almost seems like it was designed with that versatility in mind, but not marketed as such. Whatever the reason, I am happy to be owning and using it. The versatility of this vaporizer makes it fun and the simplicity makes it quick to use (no waiting, traditional bowl loading style, ect). There is also a great deal amount of control (heating temperatures) left up to the user which makes this piece something rewarding to experience as one gets "better" with it. This is my first vaporizer and it will be one I will be using for a very long time to come. Two thumbs up.

    :peace:
  18. oilman420

    oilman420 Active Member

    Messages:
    1
    Wow, I read through this whole thread just to hear 99% of you argue about what constitutes vaporization of oil. No plant matter, no combustion. You can feed me science all day long, but when I see oil smoke, it dissipates quickly and to me is vapor. And all that matter to me is what I experience ultimately. Only one person on here has actually used one of these, well make that two as I have a slide I use on my Strato. I think I have been using it incorrectly and now understand that the oil needs to be melted into the stone and then heated (from the side and not directly to the stone?) Either way, it gives a great hit and tastes better than my ti curve. The only better tasting concentrate vape is the Vaaap Nebula which uses 4 dram vials and is a true vapor hit. I still think that the health stone bowl should be a combination of something like an Illadelph concentrate slide with a round bottom and slits on the side of the bowl with a health stone so that when the oil hits the bottom of the stone it can hit a little pool and give it a chance to be heated more before running through. But then it might just be the oil in the "smoke" that just turns back into oil once it hits the water. I get a similar amount of goop using the Ti Curve as well.

    Anyway, I'm new here and not trying to piss anyone off, rather would like to stop the argument and get on to experiences with the Health Stone.

    I have a lot of experience making bho and wax using the vac purge (took a while to get here) and am as stoked with what I make as anything people have brought into our collective in Mendocino. But I'm still trying to learn the tek that makes wax in large batches (not the whipped budder method).

    Peace!
  19. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    735
    The health stone and ti curve aren't vaporizers and you're doing a disservice to real vaporizers by calling them that. They are just holders of oil so nothing will be wasted like using a screen or herb. Real vaporizers allow temperatures to be manipulated so nothing is burned which will happen with health stone and ti curve because the temperatures are so high that the lower temperature essential oils will burn when exposed to such high heat and this creates tar and carcinogens while vaporizers allow you to vape each oil at much lower temperatures and gradually raising the temperatures which burns nothing if you start low then go high.

    Don't get me wrong the health stone and ti curve are good for what they do but don't go so far as to call them vaporizers and your vaporizing when using them because you're not and in fact if you burn oils too much(have too many sessions) it may not be good for your health in the long run to to oils/full melt hash having so much more essential oils then bud that you are burning a whole lot more that may affect your health because those oils can get converted to benzene faster than bud which has more plant matter than oil and is less carcinogenic even though it still isn't good to over do smoking herb also. Just because you don't see residue on a pad doesn't mean nothing was burned because substances such as benzene boils at 176f so it won't be on the pad but because the temperature was so high it will definitely be made. Benzene has been shown in vaporizers which starting temperatures around 396f due to the burning of these oils so what makes you think using a torch or ti curve won't do this AND you're using oil which will give much more benzene than bud will.


    Now if you eat a lot of green leafy vegetables, do strenuous work or exercise and take herbs daily then you may be able to counteract the affects but if not you may actually keep more benzene in your system due to benzene attaching to fat cells and slowly being released overtime which can build up and cause problems for you as you get older. Hash and oil are very good products when taken right and vaporizers are wonderful for it(if you have a good one) but just smoking them with high heat all the time I don't think is good for your health.
  20. smokum

    smokum The Guy Your Mother Warned You About

    Messages:
    1,444
    Location:
    Canaduhh
    The difference between vaporizing or combusting any product is decided by the distance of your heat source.

    I VAPORIZE using my HS with a glass glow rod heated red hot and slowly applied starting for a distance until the concentrate is absorbed into the stone, then bringing the rod directly in contact with the stones surface. IT IS NOT COMBUSTING(tion).

    The same can be done with using a torch "at a distance" making sure to not contact the concentrate directly with the flame (or so close enough that the flame is drawn into the stones causing the concentrate to burn).

    My experience, my belief, my life............
  21. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    735
    smokum, that is a good way to prevent too much heat on your oil/hash BUT unless you know the exact temperatures you're working with, you're still burning some of the low temp essential oils because using a glow rod and torch will give a VERY high heat.

    This is what makes vaporizing so wonderful, specifically a good digital one, you can control your heat source to exact temperatures, or near it, of boiling points of different substances which will prevent ANY burning. Again you are burning oils when you use such high heat because even if it isn't directly on the oil/hash the heat is so high that it can still burn those low temp oils and just because you don't see a cherry or flame doesn't mean nothing is being burned. Those light oils boil at such low temperatures that going to high WILL burn them, turn them into benzene and maybe other carcinogens and you will inhale them.
  22. impurecough

    impurecough Active Member

    Messages:
    9
    ^ good info. thanx.

    <- doesn't know much but...

    compare the burning of concentrates to the burning of fuel in a car. most people be smoking like their driving some first edition hummer, or a bugati with the peddle to the floor at all times. i think there was a commercial on how a certain brand of car is now dispersing smaller amounts of fuel to burn making it more efficient on consumption... so how is that any different than this? might not be.

    makes you wonder how much THC these people are actually absorbing in their system in these videos.

    but basically it comes down to getting fucked or being just as high or higher than the time before... and the way these people are doing it definitely will do that.
  23. Xchadb

    Xchadb LongSlowDeath Glass Blower

    Messages:
    971
    Location:
    Amendment 64 & 20!
    HSG > Ti nails :science:
    559stonerr and Fully Melted like this.
  24. smokum

    smokum The Guy Your Mother Warned You About

    Messages:
    1,444
    Location:
    Canaduhh
    Basis ?
  25. Xchadb

    Xchadb LongSlowDeath Glass Blower

    Messages:
    971
    Location:
    Amendment 64 & 20!
    Healthstones tastes better, i think of it more like a ceramic nail. spreads my errls farther, i go thru WAY less medicine, and spend twice the amount of my day being medicated. Every hit is tailored to how long you really want to hit it, unlike a dab, where if you dont choke the whole thing down you're wasting expensive errls that burn up. Take 10 small hits, or choke it down to replicate a dab. Heathstones use WAY less butane, my little 5 dollar ronson torch is the most bulletproof pocket torch, the tiny flame barley uses any butane, and also heats your concentrate more gently, tastes way better IMO.

    no more...

    waiting for nails to heat
    worrying about nail losing heat\not enough
    cleaning sticky male to male, sticky 4 nail pieces, sticky dome joints.
    seized up domes onto sticky joints
    errl rings all over your table from setting dirty domes\dabbers down
    wasted errl on your dabbers
    trying to heat a nail then pass it to a clumsy friend
    teaching first timers how to dab, resulting in wasted errls and broken dabbers.
    burning yourself on ti\quartz
    keeping your eye on a flame while it heats instead of TV
    cracking male joints from improper heat transfer
    having dabs fall off the dabber\miss the nail when throwing a chunk


    100% of your product is being used with a stone, when it melts down, melt it back into the stone, done.

    other setups, so much oil gets stuck on the nail, male to male adatper, lip of the dome, inside of the joints, it just gets everywhere, instead of your body. just put that hash onto the stone, and done, never gotta worry about it.
    doctor_benway likes this.

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