first album of beatles to listen to?

[macbill]

Right, and then conversely there's so much vacuous musical product - every decade you say it can't get worse but it does - stuff we hate and it's the same stuff that defines the lives of millions.

I don't believe it gets worse it just evolves. The Pop stuff changes - always looking for a new angle. Granted, to us older-eared folk, it SEEMS worse, but mostly, our fathers and mothers thought the Beatles sucked back in the day, too.

For example, many white, middle class people can't relate at all to rap. I don't own any rap, but I can see how the big beat and story-telling lyrics are a pull. And it is dance-able.

If you're into the singer/songwriter craft (formally known as folk) it is still alive and strong and pooping out good shit all the time. Indigo Girls, Dar Williams, Lyle Lovett, ad infinitum.

 

[jeffp]

I was thinking about the same thing - our parents generation by and large hated the Beatles - "it all sounds the same."
I like *some* rap - Gil Scott Heron comes to mind, so does Eminem. I'd be interested in hearing new rap that is jazz inflected in the vein of Heron.
Alot of rap videos are far more entertaining and funnier than rock videos.
Ice Cube's "It was a good day" is a great rap song and a great video, in my opinion.

I think the general aversion older generation people have with newer music is the "washing out" of blues. Like after the sixties the feeling was that a lot of popular sappy music was like rhythm and blues without the blues - rock and roll elevator music (AOR) and then into the eighties where music tended to sound decidedly plastic and the dominance of electric guitar was often replaced by cheesy roller rink sounding Casio type keyboards or Yamaha DX7's.

At the same time there has always been and will always be great new music - and it's easier to find today than ever before because of the internet.

 

[macbill]

Pop music embraces the "new". Look what was included in Pop back in the day: The Archies, The Monkeys, The Partridge Family, the Bros Gibb, KC & the Sunshine Boys. They are not in my present-day rotation, nor my olden day rotation (athough there is a few Monkey's songs I liked). Pop doesn't always stand the test of time. But some Pop stuff becomes classic. The Beatles. The Allman Bros. The Stones.

If we look to our musical cast-offs through the decades, we'll find plenty we disliked. Unless you leave a cake out in the rain. So it is today.

What will become the Pop Golden Oldies of Tomorrow?

 

[lwien]

If one accepts the following definition of pop music:

"Music of general appeal to teenagers; a bland watered-down version of rock'n'roll with more rhythm and harmony and an emphasis on romantic love"
-----Princeton Edu

then I surly wouldn't put The Beatles, the Allman Bros or The Stones in that category. I just have a hard time putting "Whipping Post" "Elenaor Rigby" or "Gimmie Shelter" in the pop cateory. But The Archies, The Monkeys, The Partridge Family, the Bros Gibb, KC & the Sunshine Boys definitely does fit, and in that vein, I've always abhorred pop music. We used to call it Bubble Gum Music and it made me cringe as much as Disco but there's no denying that this kind of music had a very wide universal appeal. It just never resonated with me. I've always been more of a Jazz (Miles and Coltrane, etc), blues and rock and roll kind of guy.

 

[jeffp]

Actually I do not fully agree here. The Monkees and the Bee Gees were amazing to my ears. Brilliantly crafted and executed pop music.
Even the soundtrack to Saturday Night Fever is very high quality even though the vibe of the whole disco thing was a turn off.
But the Monkees - they were created as product but they defied being puppets and went their own way and made some phenomenal records.
Ever hear the soundtrack to "Head"? Or before that, "Headquarters." Real good stuff.

 

[lwien]

Actually I do not fully agree here. The Monkees and the Bee Gees were amazing to my ears. Brilliantly crafted and executed pop music.
Even the soundtrack to Saturday Night Fever is very high quality even though the vibe of the whole disco thing was a turn off.
But the Monkees - they were created as product but they defied being puppets and went their own way and made some phenomenal records.
Ever hear the soundtrack to "Head"? Or before that, "Headquarters." Real good stuff.

And this is what makes music such a universal language. While we may disagree on what we like and what we don't like, one thing that we can agree on is that music can have a profound affect on us, eh?

 

[jeffp]

one of my favorite Zappa quotes is, "Music is the only religion that delivers the goods."

 

[lwien]

one of my favorite Zappa quotes is, "Music is the only religion that delivers the goods."

This made me smile. Thanks Jeff.

 

[macbill]

If one accepts the following definition of pop music:

"Music of general appeal to teenagers; a bland watered-down version of rock'n'roll with more rhythm and harmony and an emphasis on romantic love"
-----Princeton Edu

Yes, I'd have to agree, if that were the definition of Pop music. To me, Pop music means "Popular", and Pop is driven by what sells. The people who buy more music are young people. So, you are right in saying youth drives Pop. So the Beatles were Pop. Sam the Sham and the The Pharaohs were Pop.

But taste is subjective, with no right answer for all.

I really haven't listened to the radio since the 70's, relying on my own music collection and what others share with me. This has meant that sometimes, it takes me a while to find "new" artists, like Talking Heads or Smashing Pumpkins. I often find groups long after they themselves are gone.

I have no idea what groups are popular today.

 

[mattybass]

Haha, I took a University course on the History of Pop, music from the 21st century.

Strictly speaking, The Archies weren't a real band... that goes for all of the Bubble Gum music. These bands were organized for direct-to-radio play with no intent on touring or anything of the sort. Their hits were intended solely to sell records... That explains why songs like "Sugar, Sugar" repeated the title throughout the song a hundred times. This Bubble Gum music of the 60s can't be compared in terms of style to anything like the Stones or The Beatles, other than that they fell into the vein of pop music slightly. I guess one could make the argument that The Beatles became a Bubble Gum band when they continued making pop hits and stopped playing shows

 

[SSS]

the post hamburg, pre-rubber soul beatles were pop through and through.

 

[jeffp]

I've been turned onto some great fairly recent music by some tuned in younger friends - such as Massive Attack and Portishead.
I think in general I resonate with music from California, starting with surf - "The Ventures In Space" and so on down the line including San Fransisco - The Dead, Quicksilver, Jefferson Airplane.
One very interesting aspect to music in a cosmic sense is that you can sort of hear WHERE something comes from - so much so that for example when Eric Clapton recorded 461 Ocean Boulevard, you can inexplicably *hear* a sense of Miami, Florida permeating through the music.

 

[lwien]

I always wondered what it was that formed our musical tastes.

As an example, I've always really liked long free flowing jams like The Allman Bros, Whipping Post and dueling guitar and lead bass jams like Cream did on Crossroads, or Voodoo Chile (Hendrix and Stevie Winwood), which was like 15 min. long, and yet I hated songs like the 17 minute behemoth of In-A-Godda-Da-Vida and yet that Iron Butterfly song was loved by many.

 

[macbill]

the post hamburg, pre-rubber soul beatles were pop through and through.

It seemed new and exciting at the time. Consider other hits of the era: "Blame it On the Bosa Nova" (one of my 1st singles), "Rhythm of the Rain" by the Cascades (another one of my purchases at 12 or 13 yrs old) vs "I want to Hold Your Hand", "She Loves YOu". All Pop, but Beatles seemed new and different (to me).

 

[SSS]

the post hamburg, pre-rubber soul beatles were pop through and through.

It seemed new and exciting at the time. Consider other hits of the era: "Blame it On the Bosa Nova" (one of my 1st singles), "Rhythm of the Rain" by the Cascades (another one of my purchases at 12 or 13 yrs old) vs "I want to Hold Your Hand", "She Loves YOu". All Pop, but Beatles seemed new and different (to me).

i can certainly see that.

i guess it's more accurate to say that particular era of the beatles is the one that spawned much of the insipid pop that came afterwards. thankfully, bob dylan got the boys stoned in a bathroom and changed the course of history.

 

[jeffp]

Regarding Dylan, never has a man gone so far without combing his hair.

 

[lwien]

 

[jeffp]

 

[lwien]

 

[jeffp]

 

[macbill]

Hair today, gone tomorrow.

 

[NoSmoke]

 

[jeffp]

 

[NoSmoke]

this is fun huck huck huck

 

[SkeletonLips]

Sometimes, really good music gets popular, but not as much as music that is designed by record labels. A lot of bands design themselves after whatever is being designed by the record labels as well. This is what is normally regarded as pop. Since "pop" music is created by taking whatever the most popular "underground" genre, and watering it down, and making it safe for the masses, of course it is not gonna be as good as real music from someone's soul, who is doing it just because they love music, and since music has done so much for them, they decide to do something for it. A true musicians ear doesn't rely on pitch, or meter, so much as soul, and feeling. Like they are channeling it from somewhere, and it's using them to get out. A true musician listening can tell when other artists are "real". Most true musicians I know can't play a note on any instrument. Music is my religion, and when people ask me if I'm christian, or buddhist, or athiest, I tell them I'm a musician. And I have to admit, that everything I listen to, every song I've heard, there is something I find I like about it. Even if I can't stand the song as a whole.

Revolver, to answer the op. Then the rest of their albums..