Dynavap VapCap

[chlorophyll_man]

When I first got the fmj it fully extracted fully for me at the second click.
I've pinched it a few times since then, to get it to grip the cap better but also to allow it to still unscrew smoothly from the tip. What I find now works best for full extraction is to count the time between clicks (my cap clicks twice), then add that time on after the second click. So now I go beyond the second click.
Could be that the cap is less (EDIT: or more!) in contact with the tip now, or that the fmj sits a bit further away from the snap discs, but it needs to go beyond the clicks now. It's still easy to get replicable results so I'm very accepting of this.
Where do others position their fmj on their caps? I have mine so the top (if the 'S' is the bottom) of it sits flush with the lip of the bowl. So just before the crimp basically. Now I've got used to it where it is I don't want to experiment moving it further away from the snap discs, anyone else tested moving it's position?

 

[Bad Dog]

is the fmj not supposed to go to the bottom of the cap??

 

[ezpz]

its definitely obtainable, my captive is a little tamer then my unbranded....

Gonna try this when I get home. I have 2 older caps and a low temp cap. I didn't try the fmj on those since a lot of people say to use the captives. I had to buy the captive cap brand new since I've never owned one. Just gotta be careful I guess.

Where do others position their fmj on their caps? I have mine so the top (if the 'S' is the bottom) of it sits flush with the lip of the bowl.

Gonna try this also. Makes sense.

Thanks for the tips gang.

 

[Bad Dog]

@iDRINKBLEACH @ezpz here is that first attempt with the captive on my 19m. you'll have to pardon the very poor narration and the lack of the final avb shot, had issues getting the fmj off after the second hit and that's where those cat comments happened

Watch d9slbo | Streamable

Watch this video on Streamable.

streamable.com

 

[iDRINKBLEACH]

I kid cause I love my feline friends

https://imgur.com/a/u5zjsVL

Haha your cat seems to have the same demeanor as mine. I’ll take some pics and a vid of my cap later of where it’s sitting. I am using 20 dynavap phantoM cap and tip

 

[Bad Dog]

Haha your cat seems to have the same demeanor as mine.

she was truly a special lady but this was much more her relationship with everyone

https://imgur.com/a/p7Yzzzg

 

[TheThriftDrifter]

My wife suggested that maybe I'm blowing smoke out my ass. I tried enlisting her, but she refused to check. Thoughts?

I'm sure there are other forums out there where you can enlist people to perform these type of smoke checks.

how are you torching?

It's not a very good idea to use any open flame torches while performing the type of check ezpz mentioned in his post!

 

[hinglemccringleberry]

@coolbreeze @Bad Dog

I’m still of the opinion that these mods enable the Anvil style hits through an increased convection capability

Try hitting it with and without airflow restriction (air THROUGH the hot tip and FMJ) and you’ll find the results to be fairly different.

This shouldn’t really be the case with a primarily conduction based extraction means, which leads me to believe that passing air IS being heated to vaping temps and does have a significant role when you’re going for an RTL hit

Right, I do think there is convection but on a DV I would think that the chamber being heated to conduction temps means that any convection taking place during the hit is only a fraction of the total heating, making it a conduction-heavy hybrid device.

 

[My_50p_worth]

Right, I do think there is convection but on a DV I would think that the chamber being heated to conduction temps means that any convection taking place during the hit is only a fraction of the total heating, making it a conduction-heavy hybrid device.

Yes I agree, when hitting it without the FMJ. The convection aspect is minimal and the conduction I’d go as far to say is 90% of what’s going on

With an FMJ though? Try and hit it fully open and then try and hit it fully closed, something weird and “convectiony” happens with this FMJ that doesn’t happen without it

 

[ezpz]

Took the advice from @Bad Dog and @Mushroomturtle. Took the fmj off my captive cap, and put it on my older cap. Moved the fmj towards the bottom of the cap (digger side) just a little. Counted to ten between clicks, so heated after the second click for a ten count (not 10 seconds, just counted to ten in my head).
And...... Nailed it.

Tried three more times to make sure it wasn't a fluke. Same results. Very happy with this $10 accessory, just need to figure out the timing of my captive cap with my IH now. Thanks again gang.

 

[My_50p_worth]

So what’s the general consensus so far on the ideal FMJ setup?

I know Austyn recommends a 5 fin Ti and captive cap, but surely an SS tip would give even better roasts

 

[Planck]

Thinking about @mccringleberry and @My_50p_worth above posts about conduction vs convection I'm compelled to do some mathing while high.

I'm interested in surface area since that is where the reaction takes place. The speed of the heat transfer from the cap to the air stream remains the same with or without the copper. The copper only adds additional heat storage and perhaps increases temperature uniformity across the tips surface.

~surface area of a DV cap = 456 mm/sq

Let's compare that to a baller since I think most would agree they are near 100% convection. My B1 has 170 3mm balls each having a surface area of 28.28 = 4807.

In addition to 10x the area the ruby balls have nearly 3x the thermal conductivity and 50% higher specific heat capacity. Without even accounting for how much more air and thus heat one can pull through a B1 this is like a top fuel dragster vs a peddle bike.

The copper is adding only heat capacity, the extra time to the click can only increase the temp of the tip and thus the conduction heating. It would seem that adding copper and heating past the click while drawing would be the same effect. Similar to dip and sip. From memory @TommyDee does this or a variation there of.

An interesting thing to try would be heat a copper cap to click then place that on the cold tip and draw. That will be mostly convection. don't burn your fingers. I wager it will be a thin hit.

 

[My_50p_worth]

Thinking about @mccringleberry and @My_50p_worth above posts about conduction vs convection I'm compelled to do some mathing while high.

I'm interested in surface area since that is where the reaction takes place. The speed of the heat transfer from the cap to the air stream remains the same with or without the copper. The copper only adds additional heat storage and perhaps increases temperature uniformity across the tips surface.

~surface area of a DV cap = 456 mm/sq

Let's compare that to a baller since I think most would agree they are near 100% convection. My B1 has 170 3mm balls each having a surface area of 28.28 = 4807.

In addition to 10x the area the ruby balls have nearly 3x the thermal conductivity and 50% higher specific heat capacity. Without even accounting for how much more air and thus heat one can pull through a B1 this is like a top fuel dragster vs a peddle bike.

The copper is adding only heat capacity, the extra time to the click can only increase the temp of the tip and thus the conduction heating. It would seem that adding copper and heating past the click while drawing would be the same effect. Similar to dip and sip. From memory @TommyDee does this or a variation there of.

An interesting thing to try would be heat a copper cap to click then place that on the cold tip and draw. That will be mostly convection. don't burn your fingers. I wager it will be a thin hit.

It’s interesting you say this, as others with a similarly advanced level of understanding have said much the same thing. On paper it is totally correct, too.

What confuses me, and makes me think there’s something more to it is how the amount of air going through the tip seems to be the defining variable on the final extraction level.

This shouldn’t be the case in a primarily conduction based system, where cold air passing over something you’re trying to keep hot is only going to take heat and not add it. Kind of like how a PC has a load of fans and airflow holes to keep the temps down

It is however the case in a convection system, where more hot air (at the right temp of course) equals more extraction.

It is also interesting that the DV with FMJ now has the majority of its thermal mass on the outer sleeve, just like the anvil. Without the FMJ it is the opposite, and when setup this way performs exactly as a conduction vape would do

 

[vapacap]

Let us give the guy who invented the titanium cap sleeve 2 years ago some kudos! 420 engineering at its best- https://420-engineer.blogspot.com/2020/05/heating-sleeve.html
I have a copperwrap for over a year or so and it works fine, thx to the guy ! Why Simrell did not copy it 2 years ago?

 

[Bad Dog]

a little FMJ'ing in some better light, bed time session lol

Watch FMJ'ing | Streamable

Watch "FMJ'ing" on Streamable.

streamable.com

@Planck I tested your premise of heating then placing on a cold tip and I got a hit, probably within the realm of the first heating cycle of a low temp cap.

Watch 5mqd66 | Streamable

Watch this video on Streamable.

streamable.com

 

[Farid]

Getting vapor from heating a cap separately does not necessarily indicate convection heating is taking place. It could just be vapor being produced from heat conducting to the tip after the cap is placed.

I still think focusing on convection vs conduction is not telling the whole story. The reason people like the flavor from convection is because the herb is heated very rapidly. With a very rapidly heating conduction vape you could preserve flavor pretty well. I've not used one, but I believe the vapman is an example of this.

 

[Bad Dog]

Getting vapor from heating a cap separately does not necessarily indicate convection heating is taking place. It could just be vapor being produced from heat conducting to the tip after the cap is placed.

I still think focusing on convection vs conduction is not telling the whole story. The reason people like the flavor from convection is because the herb is heated very rapidly. With a very rapidly heating conduction vape you could preserve flavor pretty well. I've not used one, but I believe the vapman is an example of this.

I'll be the fist to say I don't have all the answers but I will say this, based on how fast vapour appears I believe it to be mostly convection because I don't believe the heated separately fmj is hot enough to heat the tip via conduction that fast, and vapour only got so thick before dying, it didn't look to me that it got any thicker after vapour first appeared. and the fmj clicked faster than if it was heated to a tip. I don't think I could get vapour as quick as I got it even if I were heating and hitting a cold cap with a torch while spinning???? many questions but there are many smarter people here than me who will have their own theory's.

 

[iDRINKBLEACH]

Here’s a vid. You can see where I placed the cap and my regular torch spots on the cap. I also hold my flame at a -45 degree, how relevant that is with copper idk but it helped my vapor production without with the heat splashing down so it’s just habit now.

Watch 31b51r | Streamable

Watch this video on Streamable.

streamable.com

 

[oneiros.]

Got my FMJs and Shortex yesterday, and wow they hit hard, quite the improvement indeed, both the amount of vapor and also the flavor. I do think there is less conduction and more convection going on, and this gets highlighted with the VonG TI tip.

Without the FMJ, I can go for a fully extracted first hit by aiming the lowest possible on the cap and going beyond the click, however it inevitable tastes too toasted and I realized its because the herb at bottom of the chamber where you are pointing the flame gets too dark due conduction, so I get the herb on top looking lighter than the one closest to the screen, which gets darker.

With the FMJ it's the total contrary, even if going past the click for like 5-10 seconds while still pointing to the bottom-est part, I never gotten the ABV near the screen looking as dark as the one on top closest to the cap, and there is a fade in color from top to bottom as if the main heat sources was coming from top (but overall everything it's more even), so I get a better flavored and a more consistent hit.

 

[My_50p_worth]

With a very rapidly heating conduction vape you could preserve flavor pretty well. I've not used one, but I believe the vapman is an example of this.

Oh yes it is.. especially with hash



Big talk but I prefer the flavour to even a Tinymight

 

[StringTheorista]

So what’s the general consensus so far on the ideal FMJ setup?

I know Austyn recommends a 5 fin Ti and captive cap, but surely an SS tip would give even better roasts

It’s been working well for me using a 21 M tip in a VonG. Half bowl

 

[Baboose1948]

Anyone use the FMJ with a dynacoil?

 

[Smokey McVape]

I'm the odd one out!
I still get consistently better results WITHOUT the FMJ on all 14 of my tips by heating low on the cap.
The FMJ takes too long to heat for lesser results plus the fact that you still have to heat past the click to get a 1 hit extraction so I really don't see the point - still easy money for Austin with another unnecessary accessory - the best thing he has made is the Masterkey which works perfectly.

 

[Bad Dog]

I'm the odd one out!
I still get consistently better results WITHOUT the FMJ on all 14 of my tips by heating low on the cap.
The FMJ takes too long to heat for lesser results plus the fact that you still have to heat past the click to get a 1 hit extraction so I really don't see the point - still easy money for Austin with another unnecessary accessory - the best thing he has made is the Masterkey which works perfectly.

I can't get anything but 1 hitters??? I even tried the low temp cap, heating to the first click for the first hit and a little past for the second hit and the second hit is always a let down.

 

[Shorner]

I can't get anything but 1 hitters??? I even tried the low temp cap, heating to the first click for the first hit and a little past for the second hit and the second hit is always a let down.

Where have you placed the fmj on the cap,?? I was struggling but now I have put the fmj lower down slightly over lapping the digger outer so the fmj is away from the caps clicker...I'm getting much better results now.