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Dr. told me I should quit

Discussion in 'Medical Discussion' started by Newcastle, Jun 4, 2014.

  1. Newcastle

    Newcastle Stoned!

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    I went to an Endocrinologist and he told me its a little known fact that marijuana causes low testosterone. In turn that can cause depression. So the question is, did marijuana cause my problems or are they helping me get through them? It's the chicken or the egg question. I can't eat without my mmj so without it I would be worse off. Or I should listen to the Dr. and quit. What do you guys think? Have you ever heard this before?
     
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  2. Deja Vu

    Deja Vu i don't ever wanna go to bed

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    Vape or make a tea of these 2 herbs. They are the best natural testosterone boosters.
    Horny Goat Weed - http://www.australherbs.com.au/shop/category/?search_custom_tsv=horny goat weed
    Tribulus Terrestris (this is a powder, so make a tea out of it or add it to your smoothie every morning)
    http://www.floridaherbhouse.com/tribulus-terrestris-powder-bulk-organic-p-1221.html

    Qualifications & degrees? It's based on 1000+ years of remedial usage in countries that have always practiced traditional herbal medicines :) Fuck his western medicine diagnosis


    (and it's not the first time that weed has been blamed for depression. i'd take it with a grain of salt and not let it impact your enjoyment or remedial/recreational usage of MJ)
     
  3. Wizsteve

    Wizsteve Active Member

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    this is just a scare tactic the doctor meant well i am sure but did not check the sources of the studies
    and herb does not make one depressed, alcohol does however
    .they used to say herb would make you go
    crazy but that was debunked ,Deja Vu listed a couple of herbs to try they do help to increase testosterone.I would also use L-Argentine L-arginine is converted in the body into a chemical called nitric oxide. Nitric oxide causes blood vessels to open wider for improved blood flow. L-arginine also stimulates the release of growth hormone, insulin, and other substances in the body..

     
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  4. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

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    It may or may not lower testosterone, but it is well known that it WILL make you uncontrollably use different colored fonts in the same paragraph with the ultimate danger of using a blue font against a black or green background that makes it almost impossible to read. User beware..... !!

    And then there's this: "The most potent ingredient in cannabis, also known as marijuana, is tetrahydrocannabinol (THC). When you smoke, vaporize or otherwise ingest it, there's an immediate increase in testosterone levels, says Dr. Ostad."
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/06/marijuana-and-skin_n_4214041.html
     
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  5. SD_haze

    SD_haze MMJ Vaporist

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    My GP doctor tried to convince me that cannabis was going to give me testicular and brain tumors.
    Instead of living in that fear, I decided to live life life happily and and enjoy every day :D

    One thought is, couldn't you get tested for testosterone levels? If it was indeed low, then it might warrant consideration. I definitely don't believe it's a black & white equation "cannabis use = lower testosterone", one's body chemistry can cause different reactions from cannabis.

    :2c:
     
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  6. syrupy

    syrupy fumed

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    1,500
    Two possibilities I see. One is that the doctor, taking into account the patient's current health and conditions, specifically recommends against ingesting cannabis. The other is that the doctor is giving generic advice based on studies they've come across. I'd put a lot more weight in the first situation than the second.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2014
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  7. RUDE BOY

    RUDE BOY Space is the Place

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    I've had low 't' for a couple of decades and have a script for marinol , I also have never hidden or kept secret my love of MJ.
    My Doc has told me it's not an issue or in contradiction to any of my RX medications or Health problems as long as I don't smoke which may affect my lungs due to past damage and the beginnings of COPD.

    Sounds like misinformation to me.
     
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  8. Deja Vu

    Deja Vu i don't ever wanna go to bed

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    Do you live with a girl or spend a lot of time with her? Her pheromones can effect your testosterone levels as well. If she is horny it can boost yours just by being around her. Get her to enjoy a Damiana tea with you next time you guys hang out and I guarantee you will meet in the sexual realm.
     
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  9. tuk

    tuk Well-Known Member

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    Firstly, ask your Endocrinologist what this little known fact has to do with you specifically?

    Secondly, request links to the relevant studies.

    ....& lastly inform him of the well known fact that medical practitioners have traditionally pulled "facts" out of their ass when it comes to Marijuana.

    A good question for your Endocrinologist. Whatever the answer, be sure to ask what evidence(specific to your case) is supporting his conclusion?
     
  10. PoisonousHydra

    PoisonousHydra MMPR Patient

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    I hate to be blunt, but if I were told to quit by my doctor, given my personal health issues, I would quit seeing that doctor.
     
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  11. SunnyHours

    SunnyHours Well-Known Member

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    What I hate is that doctors tell me to quit on my first visit...without even taking a global look at the symptoms and skipping to "you need to quit" as if that's the only and main source of any and all problems... That's what grinds my gears :p
     
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  12. spoutti

    spoutti Well-Known Member

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    Montreal
    As for mj use causing depression. My personnal exp is I consume more when depressed, not depressed because I use more. But vaping a lot helps maintaining my depression. Im still experimenting, but small doses and physical exercices are key to my well being. Vaping gets me lazy, but succombing to lazyness is the depression way, not vaping. This is all imho. Im not a doctor or an official patient.
     
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  13. SunnyHours

    SunnyHours Well-Known Member

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    Montreal, Canada
    @spoutti nice to see another vaporist in the region of Montreal.
    What's your experience with Montreal doctors?
    Also, where did you buy your vapes if you got them locally?
     
  14. PoisonousHydra

    PoisonousHydra MMPR Patient

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    I find it very interesting to discuss this with others, and now consider myself extremely lucky to have gotten my card. While Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder is almost universally known as a condition which can be treated with cannabis, this evidence is almost entirely anecdotal, provided by those with the affliction, and there is very little actual scientific research on the matter.

    The vast majority of medical professionals took the tack of initially questioning my cannabis use, but I found that it took very little to convince them that functioning without it was nigh on impossible for me. In fact, the only person who ever made any suggestion that I quit was an addictions counselor: this was after she had determined that I do not have an addictive personality by nature. Her primary concern was that I will build up a tolerance to the cannabis, and then have nothing to assist me with my coping. I reflected that, after ten-plus years of daily use, my tolerance has probably already peaked, and while the intoxicating effects are fleeting, the medicinal ones are still far more effective than anything else which has been prescribed to me. In fact, she insisted that I not attempt to modify my cannabis use in any way unless I enroll myself into an inpatient facility. When I explained to her that this would be essentially impossible due to my anxiety issues, she was quick to agree with me.

    Like many of the people on here, I also have family who are adamantly against it: my mother is convinced that it caused my brother to have a schizophrenic episode, and while I agree that it can be a trigger, I have explained to her many, many times that in his case it was clearly the lack of sleep and other psychotropics he was experimenting with which finally sent him over the edge. Her attitude is that I am only biding my time until I have a complete psychotic breakdown like he did. Little does she know that this probably would have happened years ago, without the medication.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2014
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  15. spoutti

    spoutti Well-Known Member

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    Montreal
    My experience is mostly limited to pediatric medecine, when mom was taking care of it :). I went to see my father's doc once at 25, and im 35 now.

    As for the vapes, I buy online. Mostly planetvape, and perfectly satisfied with puffitup as well. PV prices are in CAD, delivery is 24-48h.

    Irl shopping is almost always more expensive.
     
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  16. SunnyHours

    SunnyHours Well-Known Member

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    But seriously, how can you tell me that 0.130g, that's 130mg a day, that this is abuse and I should think about going to detox. I feel it's not only ridiculous to think that and I feel it's a shame people get treated like that. As if as soon as there is pot involved, it's considered abuse. No matter the amounts. :uhoh:

    I'm trying to imagine what would of happened if I told her I smoke 3.5g a day hehe They probably would of committed me right away :lol:

    When I received the report of my psychoanalysis or whatever they call it. The report said that I should stop abusing Cannabis (said marijuana) and should be put on Seroquel or Seroquel ER. :shrug:

    I was looking at the dosages and they were fairly high even though I don't recall the specifics. So, I should stop using Cannabis and getting stoned in favor of taking Seroquel and getting Zombied the Fuck Out! :doh:
     
  17. PoisonousHydra

    PoisonousHydra MMPR Patient

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    160
    Location:
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    @SunnyHours - I am not, in any way agreeing with what these doctors told you, and I believe that I have made my personal experiences and opinions on medicinal marihuana use clear through both my words, and actions (hauling on Da Buddha as I type this) but I believe that the reason they may have suggested you enter detox is because they were well aware of the fact that you were not being honest concerning your usage.

    Again, I am not saying that you should undergo detoxification of any sort, but if I suspected that a patient (but I'm not a doctor; disabled, in fact) was minimizing their usage to the tune of turning grams into milligrams, detox might be at the top of my list. Just trying to offer an alternate perspective :D.

    I have also been "recommended" Seroquel, but I am hesitant enough taking my Clonazepam, so I will also never be putting that crap into my body. I know my fiancee was on it when I met her around eight years ago, and "Zombied the Fuck Out" was indeed the perfect description of its effect. I told my doctor that I think I am fine with the cannabis, eltroxin, clonazepam, and CPAP machine all working together to tackle as much of my anxiety issues as possible, and I made it pretty clear to her that I'm not interested in adding another chemical into the mix. She is fine with that "for now", which means that I am fine with seeing her "for now" :D.

    For what it's worth, when I was in high school many moons ago, I devised a simple system for determining drug addiction (as long as one is honest, since it works on the honour system). Are you controlling the drug, or is the drug controlling you?
     
  18. tuk

    tuk Well-Known Member

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    Seroquel sounds lovely....

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quetiapine#Adverse_effects

    Annual sales are approximately $5.7 billion worldwide, with $2.9 billion in the United States
     
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  19. SunnyHours

    SunnyHours Well-Known Member

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    151
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    At that time I was using 1 bowl from the Solo per day, which I've weighted to be 0.130g (130mg).
    But you do kinda make a point...maybe they thought they just thought that I was blowing smoke up their ass because nobody smokes as little as 130mg of weed per day.

    I already have a few of the symptoms from the "Common side-effects" so what the hell eh?

    Have you ever seen someone on a high dose of Seroquel? It's quite scary...they have a very particular way of looking at you and moving kinda. It's like they have their own version of the 1000 Yard Stare...we should call it the 1000mg Seroquel Stare :p
     
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  20. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

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    God, if that's the case, their heads would have exploded if I told them how little I vaped a day. :brow:
     
  21. PoisonousHydra

    PoisonousHydra MMPR Patient

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    160
    Location:
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    Another point worth mentioning, is that, at least in my experience, not a single medical professional I came in contact with was aware of what a vapourizer is. I was especially astounded that an addictions counselor, who is supposed to specialize in helping people manage their usage of, say cannabis, or tobacco had no knowledge of any such device, even when I explained to her the principles behind vapourization. At least she made a note on her clipboard to "look into it".

    I think this may have something to do with it. I know, for example, that every time I told any professional my dosage (general practitioner, psychologist, psychiatrist, sleep doctor, social worker , et cetera) they all initially questioned / attempted to correct me. The assumption was automatic: I say 0.25 grams is a session for me, and I must have misplaced the decimal. It was only after I told them that I do not combust, and then alleviated the initial confusion of "what's a vapourizer" that they were willing to accept my answer. I'm just curious if you ever discussed methods of intake with any of these people.

    At the end of the day, I agree with what has been said here: the majority of "medical professionals" on this continent need to stop living in the "reefer madness" era. This is not helping their patients, and it isn't helping their credibility as practitioners of medicine: it is no wonder that so many people are seeking alternative, or holistic medicines these days.
     
  22. JCat

    JCat Well-Known Member

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  23. PoisonousHydra

    PoisonousHydra MMPR Patient

    Messages:
    160
    Location:
    Canada
    @JCat - in spite of knowing this, I suppose at the time I figured that I may be in the subset of people for whom they can actually be useful, and was partly pressured by family into giving them a shot. I have tried Paxil, Cipralex, Effexor, and Wellbutrin, all of which made me feel worse rather than better. Go look up withdrawal from Effexor (Venlafaxine) if you want to know what quitting heroin is like ;). I was pretty hesitant to take the benzos at first, and while Ativan was useless for me, Klonopin actually does make me calmer, more focused, and seems to cause me to panic less.

    I may be taking for granted the fact that I live in a country with "free" (as in, taxes) healthcare, but testosterone levels can be determined through a simple blood test. All of my blood hormone levels were tested, and the only one that was low was my thyroxine (malfunctioning thyroid). At least in my case, 10+ years of daily cannabis use have not contributed to any lowering of my testosterone levels.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2014
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  24. Newcastle

    Newcastle Stoned!

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    296
    Location:
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    So I went to my MD and she says.......when were you going to tell me that you smoke marijuana! I said great I already regret telling the endocronologist that I smoked. He put it in the notes and she read them obviously. I went to the endo because I was having problems with Gynecomastia. That is an enlarged breast in men if you didn't know what that was. I didn't. The funny part is, the endo DR. said marijuana was causing my depression. I go to my MD and she says marijuana is causing breast enlargement. :doh: I stopped taking testosterone, which they want me back on! Fuck That! I still toke and my breast is going back to normal. SO ITS NOT MARIJUANA ITS TESTOSTERONE! DUH! On a side note I have started taking Fetzima for my depression and I am only on day 3 but my energy level is way up. I hope I like it as much in a few weeks. I love my MD and understand she is not on board with my marijuana use. She will have to get over that! They peddle shit with a list of side effects and think that is okay! BULLSHIT!
    I just wanted to give a little follow up on my experience with doctors. It was quite shocking to have my MD bust me. She said that I shouldn't worry about insurance or the man because of HIPAA.
     
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  25. Ox45

    Ox45 Well-Known Member

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    137
    Careful with the low-t medications. I work in mass tort law firm and we're currently getting lots of leads from men who used low-t medication and now are suffering really bad side effects and want to sue the pants off the drug manufactures.
     
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