Does Cannabis mess with our natural “normal” brain rewarding system?

[TheFatBastard]

Hi everybody,

I’ve been reading about how Cannabis can affect to our daily perception when you are not high, and how it can mess with our natural brain rewarding system. I remember watching the “Amy” (Winehouse) documentary when she got the Grammy, and instead of enjoy that exciting unique moment, she said something like “ oh, everything is so boring without drugs….” to a close friend. That made me think about how some activities I used to enjoy back in the past that now doesn’t seem to be so rewarding because I’d rather do them while high.

I found this article quite interesting:

A Neuroscientist Explains What Weed Dependence Feels Like

"After I got sober, it took me a little over a year to go a single day without wishing for a drink, but it was more than nine years before my craving to get high abated."

www.menshealth.com

From the article: “Also unfortunate is that chronic exposure leads to substantial consequences. The brain adapts by downregulating the cannabinoid system so that without copious amounts of pot onboard, everything becomes dull and uninspiring”

I know this is the oppinion of a heavy addict, personal experience, etc, but sometimes I feel like I don’t enjoy certain activities that I use to do when vaping cannabis (hear music, watch a movie, play an instrument…) that much when I do that activities totally sober, which I used to enjoy before. Or maybe is just perception, because everything seems to be better when you enhance it with weed.

I’d like to hear your personal experiences, about the loss of interest in the “cannabis unenhanced world”, if you think that cannabis can mess with our naturally appreciation and enjoyment of life, making us craving for weed to have the same rewarding sensation from certain activities that were good enough to enjoy them without being high.

 

[bhasma]

Interesting article, but I don't use Cannabis to relieve boredom, and I don't agree that it's use "makes the user more suitable for jobs that don’t require creativity or innovation".

 

[davesmith]

I think its almost gone the other way for me. Not vaping and doing stuff seems like the “high” and is very enjoyable. Lightly stoned is my base state most of the time, although i do take breaks occasionally (on one atm)

The only issue i have is repetitive tasks. My work for example. Without safety breaks i get very bored at work, after an hour or two i burn out. Taking a vape break every hour allows me to do full days of repetitive stuff. Otherwise my breaks get longer and im more easily distracted.

I do believe that i over indulged slightly in my life though and wpuld recommend others to have a less constant consumption pattern. I am a medical user but only in the past few years. As a youth i was definitely over indulging in recreational use.

Dont feel ive done much damage but ive also had a lot of damage from worse things than weed, so i suppose it also depends on your experiences with other brain altering experiences, trauma, intoxication etc etc

 

[Radwin Bodnic]

I’d like to hear your personal experiences, about the loss of interest in the “cannabis unenhanced world”, if you think that cannabis can mess with our naturally appreciation and enjoyment of life, making us craving for weed to have the same rewarding sensation from certain activities that were good enough to enjoy them without being high.

I haven't read the whole article but from your summary, I don't recognize myself in getting less enjoyment from activities while sober.

My first example is sex. It's been a while that I hadn't sex while high but I definitely can remember how particularly good it was. But I never felt that sex couldn't be that good while being sober. These are different ways to enjoy the moment but I think that I now prefer doing it sober. Although it can help some people to be less inhibited, when you are in a relationship from a very long time, inhibition almost doesn't exist anymore.

Second example is snowboarding. I lived a big part of my life in the Alps at 6000 ft and I used to go riding more than 80 days a year. While I often enjoyed a sunset (or full
Moon) ride in a relaxed style while being stoned I certainly never would have enjoyed it when doing serious stuff in steeps or risky terrain.

Everybody is just different I guess but in my experience, only very boring stuff like deep cleaning the home are enhanced by the use of cannabis. Activities that are otherwise enjoyable and involving are altered by cannabis use but in a very neutral way regarding to the intensity of the experience. (I must add that I've been into very intense activities in my life...)

And lastly, I must say that the less inhibited state brought by the cannabis high isn't suitable to some of those activities.

 

[Canna Chameleon]

Guns, motorcycles, and power tools should not be operated while using cannabis. All three very fun, and much safer without weed.

 

[davesmith]

Guns, motorcycles, and power tools should not be operated while using cannabis. All three very fun, and much safer without weed.

Ill agree generally but also Ive driven safely for 20 years stoned and also operate some pretty dangerous tools at work all day.

*touches wood

 

[budski]

I do struggle with apathy and procrastination, mostly from chronic daily use,but my personality is like that anyway.
this fits me to a T.
"One of my favorite moments was shortly after coming to consciousness in a new day and seeing for an instant the vast bleakness of life before me and then suddenly realizing—just as newlyweds might reach in excitement and hope for a spouse beside them in the bed—that I could get high. The first few hits of the day were reliably comforting as the gray dust of reality was blown away to reveal beauty and meaning in everyday encounters.."
Having a loaded vape/dose caps in my pocket heading out for any activity does get me more excited about doing it.

 

[Farid]

When I was a frequent user, I treated it like a cigarette smoker would - every few hours or so, I'd crave a hit.

If I was ever in a situation where I couldn't use for an extended period, I'd get a bit antsy, but if whatever I was doing was a big enough distraction then it would be easy enough to forget about. But the instant I was back to having free time I'd crave it again.

But it's easy to avoid this by just putting enough time between sessions. Even if you have one or two session a day, that's a large enough gap in time to avoid cravings ime. I just went 4 days without, and it never even crossed my mind.

For me, this even applies to the much more addictive nicotine. If I don't use it multiple times in a row I don't feel any cravings for it whatsoever. But I make a very conscious decision to avoid this, as it's infinitely more addictive than weed. With nicotine I leave at least a few days between uses to be safe.

 

[Razhumikin]

I feel similarly to this. I am incredibly heavy marijuana user, but I only really crave it when im bored. I dont find that it leads to anhedonia when im not stoned, im perfectly capable of enjoying things sober. It does make it hard to eat enough on days I dont use though, and it definitely impacts my sleep. However, everyones biochemistry is different, and whats true for one person may not be true for another. I used tobacco everyday for almost a decade and was able to quit cold turkey with no withdrawal, so what applies for me may not apply for you.

 

[darbarikanada]

I think the reason you'd 'rather do them (activites) while high' has to do with the endocannabinoid system. put simply, your body's ability to create endocannabinoids (which make you feel happier) gets lazy if you're regularly dosing yourself with cannabinoids (THC).

my understanding of the endocannabinoid system is minimal, but from what I've read, our bodies produce endocannabinoids as part of homeostasis - to keep things in balance. but balance of what? given THC's effects, I'd venture to say the balance is mood-related (probably other stuff too), I.e. the endocannabinoid system kicks in when we feel crummy. if you frequently introduce cannabis into your system, maybe your body almost gets out of practice - it isn't using its cannabinoid-making skills, so that ability atrophies.

cannabis use reportedly reduces the number of cannabinoid receptors (which are all over the body); they eventually get back to normal levels, but this mechanism would go a long way to explain weed tolerance: the body 'thinks' "I don't need so many receptors since I'm getting plenty of cannabinoids", and with fewer receptors, you need more THC to get the same high.

this fits my experience (fwiw). when I was a heavier user, I noticed that I only laughed heartily when I was high - never while sober. when I got my use down, the sober laughter came back - but it took some months to happen.

I've also noticed that my mood dips a bit on about the 2nd or 3rd day after I get high, then recovers over the next few days - it doesn't return to 'baseline' until ~5-6 days have passed. I suspect this is the same mechanism: on day 2 there's still THC in my system (so my endocannabinoid system's not needed), and when it dissipates, it takes a few days for the endocannabinoid system to start functioning properly again.

just my $.02

 

[causticmango]

It's entirely possible I do not use cannabis frequently enough or in sufficient quantities to have noticed this effect.

I will say that cannabis definitely changes experiences, but I wouldn't say it makes those experiences less enjoyable without it. Watching a show or movie while high is definitely a different experience, so is eating, or just going shopping. But I've never felt like "I don't enjoy this thing I used to like any more without cannabis".

For things like movies, shows, & music, I do find my emotional response is much more intense. Much more likely to laugh or cry while high than not.

That being said, sometimes it will make things that I would otherwise dislike or find boring less so. I can wash dishes & clean the kitchen like a fool & have a great time doing it while high.

I am also much less likely to get into an argument or get angry about things while high.

 

[Grass Yes]

You smoke on weekends or at parties... I get high to fold my laundry.
We are not the same.

 

[GoldenBud]

it's 100% individual as people already mentioned.
i suffered a lot from avoiding THC, some people felt nothing is wrong.
you will find dozens of people with PAWS, and dozens of people with 0 side effects.
just try avoiding THC and see what you feel..

 

[bhasma]

I think that "the brain adapts by downregulating the cannabinoid system" is an oversimplification that could lead to misunderstanding. The various receptors work in concert to maintain the body's balance. An open receptor is one state and a filled receptor is another, and there is headroom for modulation up and down. If the system is flooded with an active molecule the receptors will take up what they can and the excess will be metabolised and excreted or perhaps stored (as THC is retained in fatty tissues). The endocannabinoid system has a natural function, and if the receptors are constantly filled by extrinsic molecules then the body will gradually produce more receptors (not because it craves more of the drug but because it is trying to balance normal functioning). And then if the cannabinoid supply is suddenly withdrawn there may be too many open receptors and the system is left unbalanced.

 

[GoldenBud]

The endocannabinoid system has a natural function, and if the receptors are constantly filled by extrinsic molecules then the body will gradually produce more receptors (not because it craves more of the drug but because it is trying to balance normal functioning).

that's right, but the THC is much more potent than the natural compound which is called Anandamide

 

[bhasma]

Anandamide and THC are both cannabinoids and some similarities have been shown in their effects on brain reward processes, but the two molecules are quite different in their structure and other aspects of their function - e.g. anandamide is intimately involved with programmed cell death.

https://www.nature.com/articles/4401284

 

[GoldenBud]

Anandamide and THC are both cannabinoids and some similarities have been shown in their effects on brain reward processes, but the two molecules are quite different in their structure and other aspects of their function - e.g. anandamide is intimately involved with programmed cell death.

https://www.nature.com/articles/4401284

The Endogenous Cannabinoid Anandamide and Its Synthetic Analog R(+)-Methanandamide Are Intravenously Self-Administered by Squirrel Monkeys

Anandamide, an endogenous ligand for brain cannabinoid CB[1] receptors, produces many behavioral effects similar to those of Δ[9] -tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the main psychoactive ingredient in marijuana. Reinforcing effects of THC have been ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Compared with THC, anandamide has a different chemical structure, a lower potency at cannabinoid CB1 receptors, and a much shorter duration of action in vitro and in vivo as a result of rapid two-step inactivation by reuptake into neurons via presumed membrane transporters and subsequent intracellular degradation by

 

[bhasma]

This paper has been posted before, and if monkeys are trained to inject THC or anandamide in both cases they will choose to do it again and again.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

I know this is the oppinion of a heavy addict, personal experience, etc, but sometimes I feel like I don’t enjoy certain activities that I use to do when vaping cannabis (hear music, watch a movie, play an instrument…) that much when I do that activities totally sober, which I used to enjoy before. Or maybe is just perception, because everything seems to be better when you enhance it with weed.

Enjoyment is a matter of subjective perception, so if you perceive something to be less enjoyable, then to you, it is. Unfortunately, our dopamine system is set up in such a way that it tends to be affected by relative levels of stimulation (if you are used to intense dopamine spikes, smaller ones won't feel as good).

Getting used to augmenting already pleasurable activities by adding some extra dopamine (doing them while high) can make the original, sober versions less enticing/enjoyable.

 

[darbarikanada]

if the receptors are constantly filled by extrinsic molecules then the body will gradually produce more receptors (not because it craves more of the drug but because it is trying to balance normal functioning).

I watched a Nova/PBS program about cannabis a while back, seem to recall it saying the opposite, that cannabis use lowers the number of cannabinoid receptors (and that the number goes back up when cannabis use goes down). this makes sense to me: if there's an artificially high quantity of cannabinoids in the body, the endocannabinoid system would be 'flooded', would 'think' "I don't need as many receptors".

 

[bhasma]

My description of the receptors was informed by what I have read about opiate addiction, and I assumed that cannabinoid addiction would be similar. I am interested to know the details behind the brain's decision to reduce the number of cannabinoid receptors in response to THC, which would make the normal functioning of the receptors even more difficult. Cannabis use certainly lowers the number of available (open) receptors.

 

[darbarikanada]

I am interested to know the details behind the brain's decision to reduce the number of cannabinoid receptors in response to THC

I'm pretty sure I heard about this here: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/video/the-cannabis-question/

(btw: my understanding is that there are cannabinoid receptors all over the body, not just in the brain)

 

[bhasma]

The narrator says "when the brain is repeatedly flooded with T.H.C. it reduces the number of cannabinoid receptors" but no details are given.

More generally, responses to reward-seeking stimuli are complex and individual experiences will vary.

The Brain’s Reward System in Health and Disease

Drugs of abuse share one common mechanism: they raise dopamine levels in the brain, which elicits reward, driving vulnerable users to seek more drugs.

This publication reviews the influence of dopaminergic reward pathways on the circadian system and the implication of this interplay on human health.

Studies have shown that reward is subjective and is highly influenced by the chemistry of the individual, homeostatic state and genetics, as well as by the environment and epigenetics. Indeed, how, when, and where rewarding stimuli are experienced can have a profound influence on reward-related behaviors, as a result of activation of several circuits located in the striatum as well as in other brain regions responsible for encoding and storing memory of events.

The reward system is composed of brain structures that are responsible for mediating the physiological and cognitive processing of reward. Reward is a natural process during which the brain associates diverse stimuli (substances, situations, events, or activities) with a positive or desirable outcome. This results in adjustments of an individual’s behavior, ultimately leading them to search for that particular positive stimulus. Reward requires the coordinated release of heterogenous neurotransmitters. However dopamine plays a critical role in mediating the reward value of food, drink, sex, social interaction, and substance abuse.

Natural rewards, such as eating, drinking, and mating are necessary for survival and maintenance of a species. At its core, the reward system determines the valence of a stimulus and signals whether it is to be avoided or approached, as well as assigning the priority of one stimulus over another. Substances of abuse hijack the mesolimbic system by offering a reward without an obvious biological function.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8992377/

And I just found:

Reversible and regionally selective downregulation of brain cannabinoid CB1 receptors in chronic daily cannabis smokers

This study from 2012 found downregulation of cannabinoid receptor 1 in some regions of the human brain, which may be due to receptor affinity or receptor density (number). "Although our results suggest changes in CB1 receptor density, our PET measurement cannot distinguish a change in receptor density and affinity. However, rodent studies suggest a change in receptor density rather than affinity ... In conclusion, we report for the first time decreased CB1 receptor binding in cortical, but not in subcortical, brain regions in chronic daily cannabis smokers, and that this downregulation is reversible after ~4 weeks of abstinence."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3223558/

 

[GoldenBud]

However dopamine plays a critical role in mediating the reward value of food, drink, sex, social interaction, and substance abuse.

THC is much potent than all of these... except than drinking alcohol XD (if you meant it by "drink"... not sure )
sex, sugar, anaerobic exercise, will make you feel "high" for minutes... even less.. vaporizing 0.2gr weed rich in THC can get you high for dozens of minutes..

 

[sickmanfraud]

This article is very interesting.

Alcohol vs. cannabis vs. tobacco: Doctors answer which is worst for you

We posed the question to three doctors. They didn’t all agree on which was the worst, but they all agreed on which was the least harmful.

thehill.com