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Different strains different vaporization time?

Discussion in 'Vaporization Discussion' started by Edward Hyde, Dec 16, 2012.

  1. Edward Hyde

    Edward Hyde Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    437
    i have realised that some strains finish in a session faster than others...i mean when i use a friends vapor genie i have seen that when i put a full bowl of northern lights it finishes after 4-5 good hits.when i put an outdoor mid quality weed it still produces vapor after 7-8 hits and its not that dark too...always i pull almost identical hits with the genie because i full my lungs with every hit with my technic.

    anyone has a clue if different strains (sativa,indica,low quality,high quality,early harvested etc) produce different amount of vapor?
     
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  2. djonkoman

    djonkoman Well-Known Member

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    1,611
    yes. the darkness in abv I get can also change with strain, while vaping at the same temp.
    sometimes it keeps on giving vapor, another time it could be like 'was this it?'
     
  3. ictus

    ictus Well-Known Member

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    154
    definitely. I had one strain a few weeks back that would barely vaporize at ALL with my INH004... get a good hit or two but zero browning or anything.

    I actually thought something was wrong with the INH. I was able to get some vapor out of it using the Volcano but still not much.

    That was really weird because usually my INH vapes material far more thoroughly than my Volcano... but it seems certain material may favor certain vapes even (ie, one vape is more conduction vs convection might make a subtle difference).

    also sometimes if its a bit wet, letting it sit after a grind will help. maybe stir it every hour or so for a couple hours.
     
  4. darkrom

    darkrom Great Scott!

    Messages:
    3,537
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Absolutely.

    2 words. Moisture Content.

    Can vary between buds, never mind batches or strains.
     
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  5. Titamius

    Titamius Developing Connoisseur & Vaporist

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    132
    Location:
    Canna-da ;)
    Moisture for sure, but I would say the other factor is the amount of trichomes. One time I got this good smelling blueberry, dry but not too dry. I didnt know it was premature at the time but I put some in my EQ and it gave mabye 4 thin hits and it was lighter brown still but wasnt producing vapor. Later I looked through my 420Scope (a small microscope for herb) and noticed that it had barely any trichomes.

    I also find that when you add kief to your load it lasts much longer, with all thick hits.
     
  6. ShipDit

    ShipDit 1%

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    I have definatly noticed the diff. between strains. But I think there a lot of variables at work here.
    Sometimes you can try the same exact strain,but grown by different growers,and get very diff. results.
    The way it was dried and the way it was cured can make a world of difference IMHO.
    But to me that's half the fun! Just experiment and use an analytic mind and you will be well on your way to "Connoisseur" status!
     
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  7. weedemon

    weedemon enthusiast

    Messages:
    2,754
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    moisture contents is a definite factor, but I would also like to say that potency of the strain is a factor too. if it run out of vapor then maybe it's actually cashed earlier than another strain due to a combination of potency and available water vapor.
     
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  8. fubar

    fubar Ancient and opiniated inhaler

    Messages:
    100
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Interesting thread and AFAIK, not widely reported - my 2c - full disclosure, I'm a scientist so I like to think about the physics and chemistry of the process of getting THC out of the plant and in to my head:

    ABV: In terms of colour/smell, once the volatiles have departed, any carbohydrates (sugars) will have been 'toasted' and that's what probably gives the colour (if you've ever made caramel you'll know what I'm talking about) and characteristic smell. Higher temp/longer exposure gives darker browning IMHO. Carb content depends on the variety, the growing conditions, the growing cycle time the bud was picked and the way it was cured and stored. If the plant was full of sugars, I'm guessing the ABV will brown faster, darker and smell more like caramelised sugars.

    Water: If the bud is wet, most of that water will probably need to vapourise first - the boiling point at sea level (100c) is much lower than that of THC and other terpenes. So if the material is wet, first you'll get moist air without much obvious vapour until most of the water is gone - escaping water will tend to keep the temperature of the material capped to down around 100c no matter how hot the passing air - google "latent heat of evaporation" - so the THC won't get vaporised until the material is dry enough for the temperature to get to where the terpenes start evaporating.

    Vapour: Physically, AFAIK vapour is a visible cloud composed of tiny droplets/particles of volatile materials that escape out of the plant cells and trichomes as the hot air wafts past while you inhale. I would guess that even if the conditions (air temperature/velocity and the amount of exposed plant material surface area - big chunks have less than a fine powder eg) are identical, different varieties of herb will likely make very different volumes of vapour. One thing I've noticed is that high skunk content bud tends to keep producing obvious vapour longer than high sativa varieties but that's a subjective impression clouded by a lot of vapour - oh and skunks tend to make a more cough inducing vapour in my experience too. Sativas seem to make nice minty vapour that's not so irritating but most of it seems gone after a few good pulls...

    I always give my herbs a long, slow, low temperature drying as soon as they arrive -they crumble better (more surface area to evaporate those yummy terpenes) and that water doesn't need to evaporate before I get a decent hit. Bonus - dry material is less likely to be a nice place for fungi to take up residence and might retain potency longer under any given storage conditions because oxidation tends to be more active in the presence of moisture....

    As always, your mileage may vary...
     
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  9. ShipDit

    ShipDit 1%

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    Location:
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    Well that beats my theory that the 2012 prophecy is involved.
    Those tricky Goddamn Mayans!
     
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  10. hooligan

    hooligan New Member

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    9
    I am new here and to vaporization as a whole but my understanding of it leads me to the fallowing assumption. I believe that the quantity and quality of your vapor is dirrectly related to the quality of the material you are vaping. I don't believe the moisture content of your herb is going to effect it with the exception of the length of burn. CBD and THC are not water soliuble. Strain specifics will definately help with the felt affects. Some strains have a higher trichome content. Quality genetics and cultivation techniques make premium herb for a reason.
     
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  11. fubar

    fubar Ancient and opiniated inhaler

    Messages:
    100
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Hooligan, absolutely agree that the quality is crucial but I invite you to try a 'controlled' experiment and let us know what you observe: split a gram of good herb into two parts - dry one lot slowly at low temperature so as not to lose any terpenes until it's really dry and moisten up one half (fresh lettuce leaves in the airtight container overnight do a nice job). Compare how many pulls it takes to get a good stream of milky vapour with the dry vs the moist material.

    I'm willing to bet you'll change your view! I formed my own views when I realised that moist herb was not a good choice with my MFLB because I'd drain the battery and get dizzy from hyperventilating before seeing much vapour if the herb was moist to start with. With a plugin it's not so obvious but the physics of the situation ("latent heat of evaporation") seems likely to keep most of the material cool until the water is mostly gone - but as always, YMMV.
     
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  12. weedemon

    weedemon enthusiast

    Messages:
    2,754
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    very interesting idea about sugars in the plant material left over. hadn't really ever thought of that, but that theory makes sense to me! :)


    I also didn't know that about he water effect. neat! thanks for sharing!

    I also noticed that sativas tend to become cashed earlier than some of my others. Durban poison for example. also noticed this with the strains that have a delicate fleeting taste to them they also cash early (lemon haze for example).


    thanks for weighing in on the subject you shed some light on some great things for me today! :)



    I totally agree with you about the quality point. more thc, cbd, cbn, etc is going to = more production of vapor. without a doubt.

    i agree with you too. water content makes it take longer to get the marerial vaporized.

    totally. I like to think of growing as a wooden barrel where each slat making the barrel is a factor, water quality, ferts, light, genetics, growers ability and attunement to the plants etc. what ever is the weakest link is where the barrel will begin to leak from, and that's where improvement must take place in order to produce better plants.

    welcome aboard btw! :)
     
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  13. hooligan

    hooligan New Member

    Messages:
    9
    I am confused are you saying that you think a moist herb is better to vape with or it is not. I was saying that moist herb would take longer to vape then dry because it would take longer to get to the point of vapor and water vapor has no dirrect effect on the active ingredients we are looking for. If you are indeed saying that moist herb is a better vape then.
    I accept. It may take me some time as the most cruicial part of the experiment is missing. Good herb. I got boned on my last set up. My guys guy was out and had to find a new supply. Needless to say sub quality. God I hate buying. But thats another rant all together.
     
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  14. fubar

    fubar Ancient and opiniated inhaler

    Messages:
    100
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Seems to me we all have a lot to learn about the physics and chemistry of vaporizing.
    Ideally we do controlled experiments to try to refute testable hypotheses like the one I suggested for Hooligan above. You can tell I think Karl Popper (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/popper) got it right.
    Unfortunately in my experience, scientific rigour goes out the window once the experimenter has had a few good lungs full!
     
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  15. weedemon

    weedemon enthusiast

    Messages:
    2,754
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    no i i always dry my herb before storing it in mason jars in the dark.

    moist herb is in a waste of time (because it take's longer to start vaping.) and is a waste of money paying for water like that.

    I haven't found a vape yet that works better with moist/wet herb... dry is best, and it also preserves your stash properly.

    I agree with you.

    in my fist post in this thread i was only saying that moisture content is a factor in regards to the time it take to vape that session. (as it will take longer) i apologize if that was confusing. :)

    yes I want to see more science in the field of pot. I went to school for environmental technology, and if i could work in the field researching pot that would be a dream come true! :D but that's besides the point...

    i agree it's harder to stay on track, but for me personally it's totally situational. if i'm doing a lot of math I want to be clear headed, but if it's anything that is more about the creative or laws of nature sided then being lightly medicated actually puts me more in tune with it.

    side note: I believe that there is a real link between the spiritual(not religion, there is a distinction imo) and the scientific. and one day they will be able to explain each other.
     
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  16. hooligan

    hooligan New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Thank you for the welcome.. I happened upon this site the other day when I was doing so research. I have already found many of the threads great reads and very informative.
    I completely agree with you. In the spring my op will be running again. Life changes forced me to shut down for a year.
    Ok back on topic
     
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  17. fubar

    fubar Ancient and opiniated inhaler

    Messages:
    100
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    I think that's entirely a question of taste so not something I'm laying down the law on - not trying to tell anyone which is 'better' for them - but the laws of physics are always operating so if you rely on a battery, dry herb will probably mean your battery will give you more hits than moist herb.

    My preference is for very dry crumbly herb for reasons of storage, surface area and the amount of time it takes me to get ripped.
    YMMV - that's the wonderful thing about something as personal as getting ripped.
     
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  18. hooligan

    hooligan New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Understood. Absolutely I am not trying to say that some ones personal preferances don't rule above all. Not to mention I think we all agree that a dry herb is easier to vape.
    My point is that if your herb is dried and cured correctly then quality is really all there is left. Quality really comes down to thousands of factors.
     
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  19. fubar

    fubar Ancient and opiniated inhaler

    Messages:
    100
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Amen to that.
    Most of those thousands are outside our control, but we can and do control some things like temperature and moisture.

    We optimise our technique for more consistently memorable results. Just like eg making espresso or cooking omelettes. The ritual. The physics. etc.
    So vaporising is more than physics and chemistry (once the grower has done her thing) - I'm voting art.

    It's interesting to see agreement that moisture slows down access to the good stuff - it's not something I've seen in FAQ - but it's probably there somewhere....
     
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  20. djonkoman

    djonkoman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,611
    I can confirm your hypothesis on moist herb. 2 years ago I vaped weed fresh off the plant, since I was trimming my own outdoorharvest and so had plenty of fresh weed available, but I finished my previous harvest a few weeks before.
    it's pretty wastefull, but the taste is very good.
     
  21. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    815
    I don't understand why some think having some moisture in the herb is a waste?. It gives more flavor to me. As long as you raise the temperature, it will be gone anyway by the time you want to release thc, and other cannabinoids, being that water starts to evaporate at 212f. The cannabinoids boil efficiently starting at 365f degree. All you have to do is vape for 2-3 puffs to get the flavor, then take the herb out and regrind the herb for better extraction of the cannabinoids since moist herb doesn't grind too well.

    I do think it a problem if you use too much in the bowl, as this will lower the temperature in the bowl too much and if there is moisture in it, it will stay low for too long.
     
  22. fubar

    fubar Ancient and opiniated inhaler

    Messages:
    100
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Nooooo....this is not how the physics of vapourization works! It's a common misconception so please excuse the following rave:

    Yes, water starts to boil at 212f at sea level but any surface of ice or water will have individual molecules vaporizing randomly - yes, even ice - that's why your ice cubes will slowly vanish if you leave them a few weeks in the freezer - they definitely never reach boiling point but they sure do evaporate or vapourize in there unless they're stored airtight.

    There's a distribution of molecular energies in a liquid or solid at any given temperature and some of them achieve escape velocity at the surface and evaporate at any temperature greater than absolute zero.
    eg: a pan of water left overnight will undergo obvious evaporation even though it's way below boiling point.

    That's why you don't need to wind your thermostat up to the melting point of THC to vaporize it - most of it will eventually vaporise even well below - eg I typically use 180c.
    The point I'm making is that when the herb is wet, latent heat of vaporization (google it!) will tend to prevent the temperature of the bud rising above 100c until most of the water is gone - then you'll get THC really flowing. Some think of it as a waste of time - others might view it as a part of their ritual.

    The good news is that they're both "right" but it's worth clarifying what is going on from the point of view of physics IMHO since that's science and is pretty well understood.
     
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  23. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    815
    I know this, and I should have said it for water as I stated it for cannabinoids using the word efficiently. You will be vaping too damn long, if you don't be near or at the boiling point, and since we vape with machines that give us temperature control, you might as well get to the temperature. If you go too slow you might as well eat the cannabis. At least you will get more bang for your buck.

    As long as you use proper temperatures, and load your bowls right, trust me, the water will be gone from your herb after 2-3 puffs. If it is fresh, it may take a little longer depending on the temperature being used. I think the problem is when people use moist bud, they don't grind up the herb properly after the moisture is gone from the herb which means you won't get good vaporization due to low surface area. This is why regrinding after 2-3 puff is important, as well as raising the temperature if it needs to be done.

    Using moist herb is best if you want the most flavor. Since you use a mflb, try this out. Vape your dry herb by letting the vapors fill your mouth before you inhale it. Your mouth should look like it is filled with food. You will see you get WAY MORE flavor then if you were to inhale it straight. This is because the water soluble flavors attach to the moisture in your mouth, and let you experience the flavor better. Drinking some water right before each puff will give even more flavor because more moisture is in your mouth. Try it out and see.

    Also, when I mention moist bud, I'm referring to bud that have just enough to give flavor with the use of boveda packs or humidors, not fresh off the plant bud. That is too much water to vape with for me.

    I appreciate your input though, so don't think I'm disagreeing with you just to argue.
     
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  24. bleak

    bleak Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    199
    Location:
    Nairobbery

    I can answer that one. Its because many people are buying their herb by weight.

    There are some commercial growers who deliberately under-cure their weed, leaving water inside the buds so they are heavier. I've seen extreme examples with condensation inside the baggy!!! :puke:
     
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  25. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    815
    Yeah, I don't agree with that, but that is a different subject. That is more about buying as opposed to using which is what I'm referring to. If you buy herb you should buy it dry as possible, to prevent mold problems as well as buying less for more. You can always add you own moisture when needed.
     

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