Consuming non-medical cannabis and the risks associated

[PhishCactus]

I am a non-medical cannabis user. From time to time I have received either 100% medical grade cannabis and cannabis products, as well as what I have known to be 100% organically grown cannabis from the supplier.

This all brings me much peace of mind when I consume said product. However, and unfortunately, the majority of the time the cannabis I consume, albeit very high quality and dense with THC, is not regulated by anyone other than the grower.

This is one of the many downsides of the cannabis black market that many users are forced to purchase from. Lacing aside, we all know people don't like to give away free drugs, so for the most part, cannabis users don't need to worry about accidentally consuming other drugs while intending to consume cannabis.

However, this doesn't protect us from irresponsible handling, growing, and curing. To my knowledge there are certain protocols that make it safe to use non-organic fertilizers, I know that this involves a flush of some sort before harvest, and that this is generally accepted to be not too harmful for those who consume cannabis treated in this way.

But what about those who don't comply with these methods, are we harming ourselves by inhaling or eating cannabis that isn't grown or treated properly?

My first assumption was that if someone is sophisticated enough to grow high quality cannabis like I and many others use, then they most likely smart enough, and carful enough to treat their plants in the correct way and responsibly prepare their product for the consumer.

I know this assumption is certainly not 100% valid and to trust other humans who I don't in any way know is ridiculous. I know that high power fertilizers can be used to grow what looks like potent cannabis, still leaving traces behind.

Again, a lot of what I am writing here in this post is derived from my own assumptions and information that I believe to be factual to a reasonable extent. I am guessing, , that for the most part the majority of my, and others cannabis falls somewhere in between, not 100% organic and safe, nor is it dipped in PCP and coated with animal droppings before I use it.

I would love to hear others opinions, and more importantly concrete knowledge about this topic. I did want to cover general cleanliness of packaging and transport of marijuana and that health impact, as well as the implications of eating vs. smoking herb that is not organic or treated properly.

Note: This whole post was ignited by my wanting to use my ABV to its maximum efficiency, I felt weird eating cannabis that I did not know the source of. Would you eat cabbage handled by drug dealers and shipped across state line? This made me more inclined to extract oil and inhale it, less gross maybe, but more healthy than eating? I have no clue, and still haven't decided how to use my ABV in the most efficient, and more importantly, safe manor.

Thanks for reading and I look forward to hearing your responses.

 

[Irie]

IMO, nutrients are nutrients. If it is flushed, it will taste, look, smell and burn better. These chemicalsnyou speak of are plant food, there is nothing in them that will hurt the plant or you, IMO, if applied at the correct rates.
Now bugs on the other hand, are becoming epidemic. There are certain pesticides and antifungals that should be used at certain times of growth cycle. Ie, flower vs non-flower, some all the way through with very short half life.

All in all, it is best to know your source though I would prefer not to use, inhale, eat, anything that I did not know what was applied to it, sometimes there is no other choice.

Long story short, you will be fine but you may as well learn to grow your own.

 

[nr-cole]

Won't say too much on the general topic, except that I'm fairly sure that if there are things in your bud that you don't want to have in your body, it's probably safer in your stomach than your lungs.

 

[hereatlast]

But what about those who don't comply with these methods, are we harming ourselves by inhaling or eating cannabis that isn't grown or treated properly?

There are too many variables here to answer definitively "yes" or "no" IMO. Further, even 'master' or very seasoned growers will vehemently argue about what constitutes a "proper" treatment or grow process.

I personally think much of the same science and logic applies in this context as does for the treatment and growing practices of the produce we consume (especially if we're talking about the oral ingestion of cannabis, post-vaporization or otherwise). Whether you want to eat produce that is grown in the grandiose fashion of commercial agriculture (usually pumped with artificial fertilizers) or smaller-scale (and possibly local) organic produce* is ultimately a personal choice. That said, there are clearly some very compelling arguments for the consumption of more naturally grown products (beyond those ethical and life-style preferences that many organic produce consumers adopt).

I think particularly in the case of medicinal cannabis, there is a strong argument for organic growing processes. While these may be many, the one that jumps to my mind (and I've mentioned it in other posts on this site) is the extra security that organic pot can provide to patients with diminished or frail central nervous systems: artificial fertilizers can be taxing on the body and certainly dangerous if not properly flushed. These patients are generally much safer consuming an organic batch than exposing themselves to potentially harmful extras IMO (though this is scientifically founded, its certainly not a fact that can be safely stated in isolation IMO).



I think another point re: "medical cannabis" is worth noting and/or questioning. What makes cannabis medicinal? By law (to my understanding) it must be legally prescribed. Using the term "medical" as a marker or reference point for quality however can be misleading. After all, not all the cannabis found in (semi?)legally operating cannabis dispensaries would meet everyone's criteria for quality or safety. Surely a medical patient that uses 'low-quality' (safely grown or otherwise) herbs can still benefit from that usage and experience relief. Particularly in the black market, "medical" has become a sometimes deceptive buzz-word IMO. Ultimately, "medical grade cannabis" seems to be a very loosely defined term: if its sold legally for medicinal usage then it fits the bill.

unfortunately, the majority of the time the cannabis I consume...is not regulated by anyone other than the grower.

Hopefully you're regulating as well. Obviously its not always easy to find a product that reaches your standards of quality, but, I think the end-user's standard and discretion can act as the last line of regulation. If you feel unsafe with the product, don't buy it. All my opinion and

 

[Egzoset]

Here's a short analogy for a long post: think of what mushrooms feed on and tell me they're not comestible for that reason... In other words, vegetation processes decayed or inorganic matter and the product can be consumed by higher forms of life, e.g. us!

Sorry, i wish i could have written it in a better way but that's all the time i got at this minute!

Nice topic in any case.

 

[djonkoman]

the fkushing is really more for the harshbess/smoothness and for a smaller part the taste
sadly with commercially available weed I often wonder of the grower ever heard of flushing
I've even had weed that was so harsh that I didn't want to smoke it, I ended up mixing it with my own harvest(outdoor and completely organic, smoother then almost anything I've ever had from a coffeeshop, with the only exception being some afghan a friend got that was almost as smooth as the vapor from my own harvest from my vg when combusted, and about equal to the average coffeeshopweed in my vg)

 

[tranceporter]

I've thought about this myself as I have been using mj for the past ten years. I don't really know who grows the bud or even how it was grown. For now I just deal with it and hope for the best until I can start my own grow.

 

[Nycdeisel]

Its a big deal to me, because I use for medical purposes in a non-medical state. I dream of the day I have access to regulated herb. Ideally I would like it to be tested for pesticides and fungi, like I know some high end dispensaries take strict measures with. Otherwise regulation doesnt mean a lot to me because you STILL wouldnt know where it came from OR whats in it. I recognize the high risk for bacterial and fungal contamination as well as improper cultivation, harvesting, and curing.

For now i deal with whatever crap may be in my weed, but I ALWAYS aim for the highest quality while buying in this black market.
I didnt read the other responses here yet but I may or may not edit this post after I have.

good morning

 

[9Samurai]

I think the biggest risk is definitely bacteria and fungus. I have bought weed before that, when broken open, released a huge cloud of spores. Luckily I live in a small town and I am good friends with the suppliers so I can basically tell them where to shove it

As for artificial ferts, nobody has ever been able to scientifically explain to me why they are bad for us or the plants (hey man, they're made in a lab funded by corporations, who are purposefully using evil science to kill the plants and scorch the earth because they hate life and want power and money )
A plant needs nitrogen, and surely nitrogen is nitrogen right? Being an element and all....
Whether it comes from worm castings or as a purified "artificial" element wouldn't, as it appears to me, affect how the plant turns out.

I appreciate that commercial use of artificial ferts causes runoff and is damaging to aquatic organisms in high enough concentrations, but if used in an indoor recirculating hydro setup it isn't really going anywhere other than into your plants.

As for flushing, I can't really tell a difference between bud that has and bud that hasn't (I have tried both) - if it isn't over fertilized I don't think it's much of an issue. Though I will concede outdoor bud does seem to taste better and smoke smoother (though I grew it with artificial ferts ). Maybe because it has less throat tickling crystals?

 

[Nycdeisel]

Flushing is important no matter what is used to grow the plants.

and in regards to fertilizers, commercial ferts dont contain near what a plant ideally needs. also plants need microorganisms only able to thrive in soil to really thrive themselves!

im not expert on this, I dont have experience growing myself, but I can tell what what was flushed, what seems pure and what seems like it was loaded up with chemicals.

and remember that if a plant isnt flushed properly, there are toxic salts and other crap that will stay in the plant and will go into your body! when I think about this I often compare it to food, which even though is legally regulated and has tons of restrictions everywhere, still has lots of problems in those areas(bacteria, fungi, nutrients and fertilizers)

edit: cant forget drying and curing! ok thats enough rambling on my end.

 

[WatTyler]

I don't necessarily think it's the flushing that's important, rather the removal of food. It can't really happen effectively in outdoor grows planted direct in to the earth. Flushing as such is used in pots to remove the build up of salts (fertilisers) within the soil matrix and wash out any left overs. And a flush alone would do nothing if the plant were not left alive to metabolise for a period after the flush. Some organic nutes (such as Bio Bizz) don't recommend an actual flush, just 'feeding' plain water for the last week or two. This way the plant uses up any nutrient contained it's cellular stores- these are the salts NYC mentions (although they're not necessarily 'toxic' by any means, but some can be harmful. There was a discussion on high ammonia in vapor somewhere on here, which could maybe come from ferts sources)

And for me personally I'm not so bothered about the absolute cleanliness of my herb, within sensible reason of course. I know that sounds gross and unhygienic, but I really don't think it is. It's a plant that comes from outside in nature, which is inherently 'dirty'. But then 'dirty' is a completely subjective human condition, and a lot of it is cultural rather than real. In our modern lives we've become so very adverse to the concept dirt and bacteria, even though they're part of our natural environment and we're quite able to deal with most of it. Driven largely by cleaning product manufacturers and law makers. The point IMO of the various regulation and legislation ensuring cleanliness standards is designed really to protect the most vunerable, like the old, young and infirm, rather than the fit and healthy who have nothing to fear. For most of us exposure to these commonly occurring things is pretty harmless, within reason.

Birds take a dump on my veggies in my garden (they do occasionally). Oh no! Histoplasmosis, Cryptococcus and Ornithosis I just wash it off as humans have done for millennia, and try to forget. (so who's coming round mine for a meal? )

I can understand why medical MMJ patients with reduced immunity should be bothered about high bacterial counts, or a bit of insect poo on their buds, but I don't think it's really that relevant to me, or many of you reading. Except psychologically. But then if you think too hard about our food etc and cleanliness you would probably end up unable to consume anything ever again. It's actually probably best not to know. I've worked with shellfish farms- organic and natural- but it's put me off bivalve shellfish. And like Egzoset says, mushrooms grow in shite. Just rest assured that unless you're weak or infirm that you'll probablybe fine.

It's all personal hangups really IMO. I'll eat a piece of toast I've dropped, as long as it's not too hairy and dusty! My partner however throws it straight in the bin if it's been anywhere that wasn't intentional. But I'm right and she's wrong!

All this said, I've been dealing with a vary reliable contact for years now and know exactly where it all comes from. If I were forced back into the black market might feel a little differently- until recently at least there was still loads of the glass grit weed going about the UK. Not so much poorly grown or unhygienic as blatantly adulterated. Maybe I've just forgotten the frustration of being forced into buying sub-standard bud.

To conclude this ramble, after re reading the OP, I concurr with nr-cole and expect that your body would be better able to cope with any adulterants through eating than you would by vaping.

 

[djonkoman]

indeed dirt is unavoidable, there are also often spiders living in my weedplants(outdoor) and birchseeds(at least I believe it's from birches) in my buds
berries straight from the bush are also delicious, laying in the soft grass on a nice summerday and everytime I want a berry I just stretch my arm to the branch above/besides me.. sadly it's constantly raining now(only do that in the garden btw, not in the 'wild' , since foxes could've pissed on it, mostly the case with blackberries)
indeed it's the removal, I don't flush my plants at all since they're outdoor in full soil, but I also don't give them ferts, except some homemade fertilizer from nettles in veg
the collecting of salts in the soil is also the main reason to repot cacti, they grow so slow that by the size of the pot you could g very long without repotting, but best is to repot at least once a 2-3 years since otherwise there is too much salt-buildup

if I drop something I look at how it looks, are there hairs then I wash it under the tap and eat it(if that is possible), or blow it of in the case of a dry item if it's not too much hair

probably not such a bad habit either, lately more and more news is appearing that kids that are exposed to more dirt and allergens(for example kids on the countryside vs. city and kids with pets at home vs. without pets) are less likely to develop allergys, asthma and auto-immunedeseases
there are even results that say that worms in your intestines help against auto-immunedeseases and other errors with the immune system(allergys)

buds grown under any condition will contain bacteria and spores, here in the netherlands the only licensed company that makes medicinal weed(wich is sold at pharmacies but is re expensive as in the coffeeshops and often insurances don't cover it) shoots the weed with radiation when it's ready to elliminate all spores, this is necessary because of the regulations concerning medicines(wich are designed for pills and chemically made drugs, not for natural occurring herbs)

 

[crawdad]

im with WatTyler on most of what was said. i take various herbs and veggies to either deal with sickness or to simply maintain health and im rarely concerned to the extent of wanting to know what ferts were used or if the plant was flushed properly. i prefer organic in everything however that term i think has not quite the same meaning to the growing industry (not just herb, but all food) then it does to me so its possible that the "organically grown" foods have various things id rather not have processed by my organs as well as the non organics.

fertilizer and pesticides indeed remain in the plant, that has been proven...and its also been proven that it will be in your body. (study link here) while it may not kill you or even mess you up to eat just one piece of fruit that has it in it or down a few bowls of herb, id just rather not if given the choice...seems unneeded, we have the mental capacity to do better for ourselves and grow things without it.

 

[Irie]

Those whom are under the impression that medical grade cannabis is regulated or under any rules of production, treatment or storage are incorrect.

This field is completely unregulated and medical has become the buzzword that people just assume means product has been treated a particular way.

 

[SF Giant]

Those whom are under the impression that medical grade cannabis is regulated or under any rules of production, treatment or storage are incorrect.

This field is completely unregulated and medical has become the buzzword that people just assume means product has been treated a particular way.

^this
Yesterdays illegal grower or "drug" dealers are todays dispensary providers and operators, there is nothing at all separating "medical" herb from the herb you bought from tom the weed dealer. Sure if the weed looks/smells/smokes shitty then the dispensary may not buy it but id think you wouldnt either

 

[PhishCactus]

So i guess the main thing we have learned is that medical cannabis is not regulated, and that weed is often dubbed medical to attract buyers. If i ever have to option to buy medically supplied cannabis, ie. through a dispensary, I will buy organic cannabis, unless cannabis dubbed organic is not regulated enough to ensure that it is actually organic.

 

[hereatlast]

Legally, cannabis in the U.S. cannot be advertised as organic as of now (I should have posted this in my initial post in this thread as I was tossing the term around. Sorry!) This is not to suggest that there isn't "green" green, just that the regulations (put forth by the USDA) for 'organic commodities' does not include marijuana in this country.

Obviously the term can still be used productively (if not falsely very often I'm sure) when describing pot, it is still worth being weary of these claims (in a dispensary) IMO.

This field is completely unregulated

This isn't true. Private regulators have and continue to be employed by dispensaries, growers, etc. providing varying certifications for the final product and growing processes in medical friendly zones. You can bet that dispensary employees (and growers I would assume) boast about these certifications when in salesman mode (and rightfully so!).

 

[Irie]

This field is completely unregulated

This isn't true. Private regulators have and continue to be employed by dispensaries, growers, etc. providing varying certifications for the final product and growing processes in medical friendly zones. You can bet that dispensary employees (and growers I would assume) boast about these certifications when in salesman mode (and rightfully so!).

what private regulators? I have never heard of this and if it is true they must be involved in the fringe only as I have never heard of anyone's situation being "regulated".
Some dispensaries will analyze the ratios of thc, CNN, (edited to correct auto iPad spell check...typed cbn) etc. But I have never heard of any other herb specific analysis or certification.
I could be wrong, I honestly want to educated if I am.
What certifications for growth processes and final product and in what state(s)?

I would like to be educated and learn what you or anyone you know has experienced or believes is true as I have never heard of any of this.
If it is opinion, that is one thing and please cal it such so this is clear, if you are speaking of factual information I would appreciate some proof and what state this is associated with.
Peace, love and education.

Shams should not be pulled over the medical card holders eyes or those outside a medical state that are under the impression that the medical scene is something that it is not. There are plenty of "providers" that care about the product and plenty that don't, people need to know there is a difference is my belief.

 

[Stu]

In California at least the field is totally unregulated. I've spoken with dispensary owners about having their buds tested and they have told me that it's too costly to ship a sample to a lab, and await the results that come several days later. So any testing is purely voluntary.

I don't know about other states, though.

 

[hereatlast]

Irie, I'm happy to provide some relevant links.

Following are two (popular) examples of private certifiers (I should have said certifiers instead of regulators in my previous post but the point was still made I think/hope since it was in the context of the certifications they provide):

http://www.cleangreencert.com/index.php
"Clean Green Certified is an agricultural process review and certification program based on the non use of synthetic chemical fertilizers and sprays, and the building of consumer confidence that their agricultural products are produced in manner that is both healthy and safe for the environment."

This certifier lists certified operations on their website (growers and handlers I think). They also provide distinct certifications, for example, here's another one:

"Best Practices Certified is an agricultural process review and certification program allowing the limited and responsible use of synthetic chemical fertilizers as well as Clean Green allowed methods for pest and disease control. This program assists in the building of consumer confidence that their agricultural products are produced in a responsible and sustainable manner."


http://steephilllab.com/safecannabis/
"Steep Hill Lab offers comprehensive medical cannabis safety screening and an independent certification system including the SafeCannabis certification seal...[which] assures the patient that the medicine is pure, pesticide-free, and properly measured for potency."


I'm sure with some (not so creative) Googling you can find more information.

I have never heard of this and if it is true they must be involved in the fringe only as I have never heard of anyone's situation being "regulated".

You haven't heard of them so they must be in the fringe?

If it is opinion, that is one thing and please cal it such so this is clear, if you are speaking of factual information I would appreciate some proof and what state this is associated with.

Happily (see above). I hope you can hold yourself to the same standard in the future (e.g. "This field is completely unregulated").


As for the states that such certifiers operate in (I bet the two links above have specific info about those programs and their locations) it seems likely in any medical friendly zone.


One more semi-relevant link (since I did initially use the term regulator):
Seattle Approves Medical Marijuana Regulations
"The City Council voted on Monday to establish a municipal licensing and regulation system for medical marijuana distribution in Seattle under a new Washington state law that takes effect later this week...'We're saying, 'You're already here, now we need to regulate you,'' Seattle Councilwoman Sally Clark said."
(Note: less about the final product and more about the regulation of the market, ordinances, etc. Point is, its not just the Wild West in all places.)

 

[Irie]

Hereatlast,
I am sure your intentions are good, as are mine. I was discussing regulation of the mmj system on the whole in any one state. A system being regulated. Currently the methods, production, treatment, product or distribution is not regulated (by some authority). What you posted is completely voluntary participation and really only effects CONSUMERS who know to look for this certification.

I actually think it would be great if regulation could be discussed for the sole purpose of protecting peoples health. I don't thing this is possible, the market is too large, unless it happens on the dispenseries dime in states that have them.

Just trying to make people aware. I am not sure of your intention, I would hope it is not to just argue. My goal was to clear up a misconception earlier in the thread that regulation is the norm for mmj.

Edited for clarification.

 

[crawdad]

as with food, you must grow it yourself to know for sure. fwiw, id speculate there is more harm in the grocery store isle than in your baggie. im shocked daily how its been demonized in our culture. ive had stuff considered medical, stuff from the woods, stuff direct from dispensary, etc...and all of it made me very happy. its actually a great thing this plant is what it is, over nutes kill it, over water kills it, got to just let it do what it does and thank your farmer.

 

[Nosferatu]

I feel much safer smoking my organically grown outdoor cannabis than I ever have when I was going to these expensive dispensaries and buying that top shelf medical marijuana. I got sick alot using when using it, my tolerance was sky high because its simply too strong. And all the artificial additives had my lungs and heart going nuts. And its true what people say, besides the one or two dispensaries that actually get their bud lab tested, your're just buying from who used to sell on the streets. We are going through an age where people are scared of nature, thinking its dirty and unsafe, and everything needs to be man made and lab tested. But the truth is if it wasnt for man thered be much less sickness and toxicity. Nature has a way of purifying itself, and I'd never worry about smoking outdoor herb grown by a trusted person.

Another thing, small amounts of germs make you stronger, if you where to isolate your self from all natural toxicities and germs for a very long time, then re released yourself in to nature, you would probably die. As we get sick naturally at a young age or eat and breath germs, we are building immunity to them. Its good to be the guy that eats food off the floor and doesnt mind a little dirt in his veggies, it makes you stronger!

Iv'e been feeling like superman since I started eating organic food and only smoking outdoor bud, my nancy pantsy lab grade days are over, its all a hoax.

 

[obelisk]

Re quote below: perhaps referring to private regulators in a market that isn't legal, or whose legality is questionable, doesn't really say much. it would seem, to me, that, at the end of the day, the statement "this field* is unregulated" is more communicative of reality as it currently is nation-wide than your post below.

*medical marijuana field i.e.

Irie, I'm happy to provide some relevant links.

Following are two (popular) examples of private certifiers (I should have said certifiers instead of regulators in my previous post but the point was still made I think/hope since it was in the context of the certifications they provide):

http://www.cleangreencert.com/index.php
"Clean Green Certified is an agricultural process review and certification program based on the non use of synthetic chemical fertilizers and sprays, and the building of consumer confidence that their agricultural products are produced in manner that is both healthy and safe for the environment."

This certifier lists certified operations on their website (growers and handlers I think). They also provide distinct certifications, for example, here's another one:

"Best Practices Certified is an agricultural process review and certification program allowing the limited and responsible use of synthetic chemical fertilizers as well as Clean Green allowed methods for pest and disease control. This program assists in the building of consumer confidence that their agricultural products are produced in a responsible and sustainable manner."


http://steephilllab.com/safecannabis/
"Steep Hill Lab offers comprehensive medical cannabis safety screening and an independent certification system including the SafeCannabis certification seal...[which] assures the patient that the medicine is pure, pesticide-free, and properly measured for potency."


I'm sure with some (not so creative) Googling you can find more information.

I have never heard of this and if it is true they must be involved in the fringe only as I have never heard of anyone's situation being "regulated".

You haven't heard of them so they must be in the fringe?

If it is opinion, that is one thing and please cal it such so this is clear, if you are speaking of factual information I would appreciate some proof and what state this is associated with.

Happily (see above). I hope you can hold yourself to the same standard in the future (e.g. "This field is completely unregulated").


As for the states that such certifiers operate in (I bet the two links above have specific info about those programs and their locations) it seems likely in any medical friendly zone.


One more semi-relevant link (since I did initially use the term regulator):
Seattle Approves Medical Marijuana Regulations
"The City Council voted on Monday to establish a municipal licensing and regulation system for medical marijuana distribution in Seattle under a new Washington state law that takes effect later this week...'We're saying, 'You're already here, now we need to regulate you,'' Seattle Councilwoman Sally Clark said."
(Note: less about the final product and more about the regulation of the market, ordinances, etc. Point is, its not just the Wild West in all places.)

 

[hereatlast]

Sorry for the miscommunication but I hope the point is made clear. Despite the place of the private certifiers and the seeming lack of wide-scale regulation of the final commodity, the field is still not unregulated. The black market may be unregulated but the very legal status (however conflicting the federal and state medical marijuana laws may be) of marijuana dispensaries means that they are regulated.

Note: "Regulation is administrative legislation that constitutes or constrains rights and allocates responsibilities." (from the ever trust-worthy wikipedia Regulation)

If dispensaries are operating under (state) law than they are by nature regulated. Am I crazy or is this not the case? It seems to me an unregulated field would suggest one that in its very nature operates outside of the law.

Again, I apologize for my initial misuse of the term but please note that I still wrote that they "are employed by dispensaries, growers, etc. providing varying certifications for the final product and growing processes" and not required. Simply, if the medical marijuana field was unregulated then anybody could open a dispensary in a legal state. This is not the case. and