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Cold Turkey

Discussion in 'The Vapor Lounge' started by Rick, Nov 17, 2013.

  1. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,573
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    Two days a week I don't vape at all and on those nights that I don't vape, I have very vivid dreams as well, but thankfully, none of them have been, what I would call, fucked up. Last nights (this morning actually) I had one that was just (the only way I could describe it)...............wonderful. And the really nice part is that I remember every bit of it..........every last detail.

    Dream started with me on a long straightaway watching my friend taking a speed run in a brand new shiny red Lamborghini. The sound made my bones tingle..............sooooo nice. He made a u-turn, came back and said, "Your turn". I got behind wheel, ran her through the gears.........wow. Next scene was we were in a small service garage in Italy (which was out in the country side) who just service Italian exotics. The Lambo, for some odd reason, just wouldn't start. Kept cranking the starter and nothing. The owner of the shop said that he needed to keep the Lambo in the shop for the day so he could work on it and he handed us the keys to his car if we needed some transportation. They were Ferrari keys. He said the only issue was that his car was at his house which was a few miles from his shop and said, "Just go outside and take a right up the road". Well, that walk was just as nice, if not more so, than the ride in the Lambo. We walked through some of the most gorgeous landscapes in Italy. Unbelievable. When we finally got to his house, we were invited in by his wife. He had 2 kids, and his mother and grandmother lived with them. The grandmother said that her grandson called and said that he'd be running a bit late, and then she insisted that we stay for dinner. His wife poured us some glasses of wine while his grandmother retired to the kitchen. We sat down on the couch, sipped on our wine, and the smells that came from that kitchen were simply................amazing.

    Than I woke up. FUCK !!!! Not only did I not get eat that dinner, but I never did get to drive that Ferrari.
     
  2. vapirtoo

    vapirtoo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    594
    Hey Zap, I've always found that being "straight" is as interesting a high as being perpetually stoned.
    Enjoy your farm work!
     
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  3. Vitolo

    Vitolo Vaporist

    Messages:
    6,604
    Location:
    The Vapor Trail
    While I have never taken an Official T-Break from MJ, (except while in hospitals under observation), I do take breaks from my other drugs.
    I do this against the advice of some physicians, but my personal Doctor is aware of my routine.
    Every 90 days, I stop taking the Diazepam that I take for Spasticity, for 72 hours, and I "rough it" with spastic jerking and taut muscles for those days.
    Every 6 months (2X a year) I stop taking Narcotic Drugs (Oxycodone) for 72 hours, and I do the same "rough it", routine (with pain)for 3 days.
    Yes, it does cause discomfort intestinally, and On those days I rely upon MMJ more heavily than ever.

    I can handle the physical pain that comes from not taking the Narcotics better than I can handle facing the Nausea that comes when I do not receive Herbal help.

    DREAMS:
    * I Use MJ all day every day, and my dreams are VERY colorful, and details very clear, and easy to recall.
    *During the five 72 hour Medication breaks per year (3 for Valium, and 2 for Narcotics), I have even MORE colorful and vivid dreams than I normally do.
    *The few times that I have stopped using MMJ... (Hospitalizations, and in for Testing Procedures), I had no dreams at all... until I vaped again, and the dreams again were vivid.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
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  4. basement farmer

    basement farmer My face is melting...

    Messages:
    405
    This topic should be a sticky.

    I think a lot of folks could stand to learn a thing or two from it as it's so motivational.
     
  5. Caligula

    Caligula Maximus

    Messages:
    6,894
    Location:
    SB420 Land!
    I totally thought this thread was going to be about something completely different... given the holiday and all.

    Tough luck OP. Sorry to hear about your troubles.
     
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  6. basement farmer

    basement farmer My face is melting...

    Messages:
    405
    Yeah me too. I was thinking it'd be about cigarette cessation or maybe even Thanksgiving dinner.
     
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  7. Rick

    Rick Zapman

    Messages:
    1,216
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Really neat to hear all this stuff. Some very good contributions that all help me and others I am sure.

    Funny that I do not have cravings for my friend of so many years. Surely much of it is because I know I have to do it but now it is different. It has been well over two weeks and I look forward to every new day and night. Some of my dreams are also very vivid with details that are easy to remember. My dreams are a menagerie of old and new, often triggered by recent events. Like the road work that has been going on since September on the State highway a mile from our place. They are supposed to be finishing for the winter, or so we were told. A stretch of one lane that holds everyone up for 10-15 minutes or so(culvert replacements). So I am heading down highway 3 on a Moped that is very hard to steer. The work crews are all partying everywhere because they are almost done for the winter. Not one flagger anywhere. Chaos but I keep going. Pat shows up out of nowhere with a couple bolts to fix my moped but the threads are all stripped and they do not work. Wake up. Lots of neat stuff.

    I am learning some stuff about the system. My sentencing Judge "imposed no restrictions on alcohol as you do not seem to have a problem with that". Cool I think even though alcohol had much less appeal without my MJ buddy. I then found out my PO is the real boss and I am not allowed to have alcohol as those are the rules for supervised probation. No biggee I found. Head clearing so nicely. That internal connection between me 'n The Master Flow is getting so exciting and so strong. I find myself contemplating and intertwined with whatever It is so much more these days. What a rush. Sometimes the happy tears just keep flowing, like today when I held my 24 day old grandson Ari for the first time. It was like our two souls were connecting in a way I could never imagine. I held him so close and he held me. What a gift for me.

    I am interested in others way more. I have more stamina. I am stronger, lifting 50# grain bags like I was back in my '30s. I am losing weight. I am eating less. No more peanut butter with real butter sandwiches without the bread. I used to love that combo but the craving for it has disappeared magically. I am drinking much more water. I am nicer to Pat. I am more understanding of others and interested in their life. I still smile all the time. I cry more. In short, I am loving this. I plan to do some writing as the words come so much easier now and I have always wanted to do some writing. I am giving my family a much better example of who I am. I am being challenged in a new way because folks in the system see me as just another cog in their never ending gears of folks that are fucked up and on bad drugs with many DUIs. I love that because I am going to show them the strong man that I am. I am an oddball in the system. I had my first 'group' in counseling yesterday and I loved it. I really think I can help a few of these kids who have fucked up bad. Not sure how yet but I know The Universe will guide me along with my counselor.

    This is fun. Sure there will be challenges but I look forward to them and will deal with them positively. I look forward to finding the same guy I have always been but without the fog. Humans are incredible animals with unlimited potential, especially when the connection to something greater is clear and direct. I have not even started my community service yet. God knows what fun I will run into during that adventure.

    This thing that happened is a proverbial blessing in disguise. I am loving each day and so is my love of almost 50 years. R&P hooked in the fall of '64. I am such a lucky man to have her. She has put up with so much over the years and stuck like glue. It is a new beginning like never imagined.

    Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and words. Your are helping big time. I honestly thought I would be a Marijuano my entire life and am so glad I was wrong.

    More stories to come. There are many and they are good ones.

    Don't get me wrong here. Marijuana was given to us by The Master Flow. It has its place in our evolution. I am sure many of us would have turned out not so good at all without it. It also tricks us, mostly in a good way. Peaceful, non violent, honest, good, loving, hungry, happy, horny. I have no regrets about my past. If marijuana tricked me, I sure as hell am happy with the guy who was tricked. But I love the untricked Rick even more.

    As for the longer term future, I have no clue except that I am looking forward to it like never before.

    Edit: Today was the best Thanksgiving ever. Son Ben and wife Suey with kids Coco and Ari and smoked Turkey and dogs playing at their place. Hugs that lasted so long with so many squeezes and kisses. All hugs are not equal. Long ones are so connecting.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
  8. Maine420

    Maine420 GROOVY GRANNY

    Messages:
    185
    Location:
    Right Coast
    Rick, thanks so much for sharing your journey. One of us may be walking down the same path you are on, please keep journaling!

    Peace is with you, Rick.
     
  9. Rick

    Rick Zapman

    Messages:
    1,216
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Anudder thing is needing less sleep. Poor Patty. I get up to pee and stoke the fire 4-5 hours after going to bed. In the past i would go back to bed and sleep another 2-3 hours. Now I am too excited to go back to sleep so I keep rattling away about this or that and keep Pat awake. Going to have to get that one worked out as she needs her beauty sleep. She is such a beautiful lady and she will soon be 70. She looks way younger than her age, way younger. She acts it too.

    I want to say a word or two about real MMJ users. They need marijuana. It tricks them in a very good way. Like Vito says, the nausea is the worst thing he experiences. He can handle pain and spasticity for a few days to clear his head of the heavy man made drugs but the nausea is a minute by minute zapping of his Eternal Now Moment. He has commented on that in the past and maybe he will post a link to his best treatise on the subject. It is a mindblower, what happens with constant nausea. Marijuana takes that away from him and so many people. Call it tricking, call it whatever but the bottom line is it works. Vito is an incredible man with incredible life experiences. Getting run over by a truck while on the sidewalk by an uninsured driver was the biggee that would have sent most of us to the hereafter. Not Vito. He survived and turned his life into amazing grace. I could go on and on with just the few stories I have heard from him but he does it way better. He is such a fine example of human durability and turning shit to flowers. One that sticks with me is that he lost his father at a very young age. As I recall from my fuzzy days, his father was killed in an explosion of a boat at sea. Somebody thought he was a communist and assassinated him. This happened in the good old '50s. Vito went on to be raised, in part anyway, by a fine old Jewish lady.

    When I speak of what is happening to Pat and me, I am speaking from the perspective of relatively healthy 'normal' human. Vito was in a coma for a long time because of the sidewalk accident. Vito and millions of other MMJ patients do need marijuana to function in a way that they can get through life daily and keep their sanity. Vito is a dog guy, a bird guy, a (past life) martial arts guy and today is a very giving and loving human who helps so many people in so many ways. We are all so lucky to have him participating on this forum. He is an inspiration for us all.
    Thank you Vitolo. I have much incredible love for you. Keep on keeping on. I am so glad you have the herb to help you through every day.

    Groovy Granny, thank you for finding this thread and your good wishes. We started in '67. I was 21 and Pat was 23. Grandkids are so cool. That is another thing about "clean and sober" as they say in group. I love and hug and give more attention to those little ones. They need it, especially now days with the world in a mess and parents often still kids with their head up their ass.
     
  10. Vitolo

    Vitolo Vaporist

    Messages:
    6,604
    Location:
    The Vapor Trail
    Thanks for all of that Rick.
    I love you too.... and Pat too!
    Reading your post made me cry. You are very kind to say such nice things.
    Truth is you are responsible, in no small part for me being bold enough to go in public and speak to people about Vaporization. My spreading the word about Zaps, took me from the isolation of my 4 walls, and gave me cause to go out and do demos... and even (for the 1st time in a lifetime) allowing patients into my home.
    Indeed my wife, Patty credits Zapville and Rick himself with making me feel whole.

    Rick Harlow and AromaZap gave me the courage to allow other cardholders into my home to present disabled patients with... "The Vape Show", and to let others see my now slightly less functional form.
    I owed the universe a very large debt, for giving me back my life.. and letting me after a lifetime alone meet the woman of my dreams...
    I paid this debt for years in a virtual "Metaverse".
    I then began to pay my debt in RL (real life.... a term used by residents of Second Life).. by helping combusters stop smoking.. tobacco and "meds" and teaching folks up close to vape, providing a positive vape experience.

    Anyone that knows me should be aware:
    I was not always disabled.
    I was not always homebound, and ill....
    I was not always financially limited.

    *I also... was not always happy.
    *I am a happy man, and I thank the Universe for the way things have fallen.

    Thank you Rick for everything!
    The Universe did me a kind turn by letting us cross paths.


    Dogfather of SL is a blog written by Steven Dragovar, who was one of the people that interviewed me about Second Life and my Real past. Help yourself if you wish to read it.
     
  11. Steele Concept

    Steele Concept Transformer Tubes Manufacturer

    Messages:
    574
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Glad to hear you are doing well Rick and best of luck in living your new life and finding success in sobriety :). Your Zap was my re-entry into vaporization and FC. I purchased 3 zaps/CRZ for myself and my loved ones - they all got good use! I am an MMJ patient and have used your zap through some rough times where it seemed my world was caving in. I suffer from Ulcerative Colitis (similar to Crohns) and the zap has definitely provided some relief at times when the suffering was at it's greatest and we all thought I would have to get my large intestine removed.

    I'm happy to hear you are finding a newfound peace in sobriety and the labor involved with tending your land. I've been through a very similar rough patch like yourself and it is very humbling - I'd say actually quite good for the character. Vitolo, it seems you are quite familiar with what a life changing event can do for your perspective. I have a close friend and family member who had bad accidents involving coma, traumatic brain injury and were lucky to make it out alive. I can only imagine how difficult the whole process is but it really puts things in perspective for myself and also makes me grateful for my good health and fortune.

    Ahhh this universe throws us some crazy curveballs sometimes but these difficult events speak volumes to the human spirit and our ability to overcome.

    Some tips I'd throw out there for MMJ cessation folk:

    1. Hard exercise for the muscles and lung is natures best cure for relieving anxiety/depression. Chopping wood is perfect for getting the blood pumping and muscles working, good looks Rick.

    2. Find some time for mindfulness, whether it be meditation, morning reflection time, yoga etc.

    3. Enjoy hobbies you may not have explored for a while due to some excessive Cannabis consumption. Focus in these areas you enjoy and grow.

    4. Adjust your diet accordingly, you are not eating ravenously due to the munchy factor. Get in those greens, healthy fats and proteins. Perhaps look into the Paleo Diet (I dig The Paleo Blueprint), This book is gorgeous as well http://www.amazon.com/The-150-Healthiest-Foods-Earth/dp/1592332285.

    5. Benedryl makes a lot of people groggy in the morning, if you are having difficulty after modifying your diet and doing some hard exercise try some Valerian tea. Sleepytime Extra is good stuff w/ chamomile+valerian. Valerian is the real deal and acts on our GABA receptors bringing on some sedation and anxiety reduction.

    God bless guys, if you aren't religious like that then peace with the Master Flow, etc. :peace:
     
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  12. Rick

    Rick Zapman

    Messages:
    1,216
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Such good stuff. Thank you Vitolo and Steele Concept. It is very helpful to get tangible solutions to help us through our changed life. Not to mention some compliments about our past life.
    Our life sure is changing too. Day by day, one day at a time. Please excuse some repetition but some of the changes are so intense, I cannot help but repeat them.

    One is "out of self". I am feeling and acting much less selfish than the old days. We all tend to be that way....me, me, me. Who knows what starts it...childhood, culture, ego, being part of the Oneness greater than us. I never gave it much thought as my past life has been pretty smooth. I could BS my way out of situations and things smooth over or more likely get forgotten. Marijuana is good for that as it allows us to ...."oh well, whatever......Let it go....smile and hug and laugh". Surely that is better than get mad and argue and maybe get mean and angry like happens much more often with alcohol than MJ. But we still often leave communication dangling with no finish. Real communication is so cool. I'm OK, you're OK but we have differences that often do not get resolved. We are all so different yet so much alike. We all want to be accepted and loved and not hurt but often we ourselves do not do that so we "get what we give". I am finding myself telling Pat so much more that I love her and I never want to hurt her because she will react to me as though I am hurting her. I could ramble on and on about so much that is going through me these days which would be a bore for most folks so instead I will try to do it in outline form. We are well on our way now with no MJ and no booze. I want to say "several" weeks but it is just several days more than two weeks. Simple statements, short and sweet.

    1. Surely getting closer to that 'Thing' I have always loved. Call it God, Universe, Master Flow or whatever IT is that is greater than us. I feel much more connected as does Pat. That enhanced connection is the real biggee that leads to so much else that is good. What follows is related to numero uno.
    2. I want to give to my family, friends and especially grand kids so much more than in the past. My grandsons mother is the one who 'did this' to us a year and a half ago. She is having some real tough times which are all her doing. Her two boys still living with her are suffering. They have no home of their own because she has no home. She is capable of changing that but for some reason keeps in the same rut of relying on her family that cannot say no to her. So they live in chaos and confusion every day. Today I had a short but very real chat with Mike about the subject offering to help in any way we can. It could mean our sweet life will be interrupted much more and our little money will go faster but those boys need help. In the past, we let it go, mainly because mother would never, ever allow sons 2&3 to live with Mike. Son 1, Riley, now 13, has been with Mike for 4 years and is doing fine. Less selfish on our part, a very good thing. We will not and cannot go through the court system for this change but we will try our best which is all we can do.
    3. Thankfulness. I have always been that way but it is growing day by day about everything and everybody. Resentment is the opposite of thankfulness. You cannot have them both at the same time. Resentment is a killer of our soul as it takes us out of our Eternal Now Moment. We go out of today to be resentful. Today is all we have.
    4. Cop out words are popping out. Kinda, maybe, could be, try, etc. We need to try to eliminate those words from our vocabulary as they give us an out. We need to be more definite with our words so that we will do things or not do things, period.
    5. No problem with stopping MJ or booze.........I want to say yet but yet is another cop out word as it leaves the future open for failure.
    6. Expectations. Do not expect failure or negativity, period. Know that the Universe or whatever you call it will give you the strength to deal with those issues if they happen. This relates to "thoughts are things". Expect positive, love, good. That is the best way to experience life IMO.
    7. Know that your connection to whatever IT is is very real. God is and we all are a part of that. We are directly connected to something greater than us. We have to know that though. We cannot just act like it and give it lip service. We have to know it with all our heart, mind and soul.
    8. You are stronger than you THINK you are. If you have doubts and are not sure about solving problems in your life, relationships, etc, you really are stronger than that if you give it a chance.
    9. Life is the Book of Changes. Embrace that reality. We get caught up in our ruts and they are comfy so change is difficult sometimes.


    General......Another chronicle about dreams to come later. Lets just say two nights ago I slept 12 hours with only two pee breaks. The last two hours were absolutely unreal, similar to lwiens Italian car dream. It was almost a nightmare but not really. It was so real that it took me a few seconds after waking up to realize it was a dream. So real but still crazy. I came downstairs and asked Pat..."are we still OK??????" I cried and cried in the dream and after I woke up. Gotta be good for me. My daughter in law said the dreams in a heavy long sleep are very hard to get out of.
    Also, with no booze I can smell it like a hound dog(or would that be a probation officer?) She came to our place yesterday BTW and we were in town. Luckily Mike was home and zipped over to let her in and make her call. Had to use our land line as all the fancy telecommunication equipment she packed would not work here in our boonies........"411.....in progress, etc". They have to do that because so many of their 'clients' are really bad people. They never know. She looked around a little and said she would be back........."You are welcome any time Monica".............

    Still doing great and loving every minute. Sometimes in the evening I get a little down without my old friends but that is rare. I have always been able to "sleep it off" as my Dad would do.

    Mo later. Gotta feed my Bovines and get ready for 42 degrees going to 10 degrees in about one day.
    Thanks so much for the help. FC is a great forum doing so much good for so many people.
     
  13. PanicFreak

    PanicFreak Theo

    Messages:
    126
    Location:
    Down South
    Isn't it amazing how vivid the dreams are while being sober? Early this morning I had one that I was on a cruise with a bucch of old college friends headed to a black crowes concert. I even went overboard and still made it to the sandbar that the concert was taking place. Some strange lady in a polka dot dress got into a argument with me which I still have no ideas what the argument was over. Gotta love the imagery my brain is producing while I am detoxing.

    I plan on taking another test here at 49 days and I am hoping I will have passed all toxins from my system. I am ready to start a new career, only thing is new career will conduct randoms. I just feel this is another chapter in my life and I must press on and leave something's behind. I still have all my zaps and accessories though because ya never know. I do love em so, it's a shame they have not been plugged up in over a month. I guess I could use then for aromatherapy, be better then seeing then have no life at all.

    I admit I do miss the mj, it was great! I have thoroughly enjoyed being sober too. Having a clear mind and being able to connect is a plus. I do enjoy company more now than before. I feel a closer connection to family as you do also, Rick. On a recent waterfowl hunt I was more alert than my fellow hunters. I was spotting birds faster and hitting the right notes on the calls. I was very accurate and not wounding birds. I even stayed after my hunt was done and scouted new areas I have never hunted.

    Rick, from a personal experience the sleep should get better. I have noticed vivid dreams are not as easy to pass. My sleep was totally jacked up in the beginning. I appetite was really messed up too, I lost a considerable amount of weight in the first couple weeks. After three weeks my appetite picked up and I actually think I weigh more now than when I was munching all the time. Glad to you see you are still on the positive side with your situation. A great attitude and stearn outlook is what it takes, it's mind over matter. You got this!
     
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  14. Maine420

    Maine420 GROOVY GRANNY

    Messages:
    185
    Location:
    Right Coast
    Thanks for sharing, @PanicFreak. I'm finding this thread helpful, as I am trying to cut down on my usage. All of Your comments have been encouraging!
     
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  15. PanicFreak

    PanicFreak Theo

    Messages:
    126
    Location:
    Down South
    @Maine420 thank you for the kind words friend. One thing that has always intrigued me about the fc community is the support and gratitude from other members. It's like one big family, of course we all have bickered some time or another but at the end of the day this community stays positive. Glad this thread is helping you and I hope you reach your goal. You will be amazed what you can do once you put forth the effort.

    @Rick I have not been so strong with the booze, actually I have substituted the mj for wine and high gravity beers. Also have some homemade distilled spirits I made that has mellowed real nicely with age. As most know I am from the southern part of the country and some "redneck" informed me the other day that you could not make whiskey without "granulated sugar!" What a joke, I argued only for a short time before I realized how stupid it was to argue with such a ignorant person. This person also wants to open a distillery, obviously he is clueless because the Feds will not allow whiskey to have granulated sugar in the recipe. Gotta convert starches, that's what makes the good stuff. I plan on laying off the booze as much here shortly, I really don't care for it as much. Just a moderation thing.

    Couldn't wait for day 49 so after a few trips to sauna these past couple weeks and some workouts I decided to see if I could pass a DT. The bottom line was visible for the first time. It was so discouraging when not passing after 42 days but now I have some confidence. I am not a fat guy but I guess I had so much accumulated in me is the reason it has taken so long. Glad to be near the end, hopefully soon I will getta call from a prospective employer. Ready for a new job, the one I am looking is gonna be adventurous. Will keep in touch with all you friends.

    @Vitolo I had to give a shout out before I ended this post. You are such an inspiration to all. I never knew you had endured so much, yet you are so positive. You my friend are what we call a survivor. You have faced all adversity with such a great attitude and I respect you for that. Folks like you are what keeps some of us going. Continue on your path of helping others, so glad deserving patients have a friend such as you. You are hero!!!
     
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  16. Rick

    Rick Zapman

    Messages:
    1,216
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    I was in to the Doc recently. The nurse that came in to take my BP, go over my stuff, etc was a heavy MJ smoker for over 30 years. She stopped for a new career and passed on that it takes somewhere around 45 days to get it out of our system. She was very cool and supportive in all ways.

    This will be a short one(thank God you all say!)

    We have one of those winter bubbles over us. Right now it is 8 degrees outside but a sweet 65 in the house with that number going up just a little as we have Turbo on in our wood heater. Open the ash drawer just a crack and she roars like a blast furnace. Next few days it will be close to zero so I have extra outdoor stuff to tend so all of our flows keep on a flowin.

    Doing very well. The main word is clarity. I always thought I was close to that but was wrong. Patty, going along every step, is doing well but she does not do real well in this weather, no matter how good everything else is going. At least the wind stopped last night which is a major blessing.

    Panic, I am finding the weight must be watched, even without the munchies. Food tastes so good and we have a new WINCO grocery store in town with all the bulk foods, including unreal chocolate candies. Anybody out there have a WINCO in their neck of the woods?

    OK then. Out to the hot tub for a real treat, then in town to one on one counseling and then "group" for "relapse prevention". All paid for by some institution because I am a low income first time convicted felon.

    Stay warm and happy. Life is greater than ever here in ghost town Zapville.
     
  17. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,573
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    I'm curious Rick. When you were vaping, how much bud did you go through in a week?
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2013
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  18. Rick

    Rick Zapman

    Messages:
    1,216
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Sorry for the delay getting back lwien. Been a busy week with a couple doctor visits, random UA testing and counseling all on different days. We are so glad for a full day home today and probably all weekend.

    We have warmed up to 12 degrees from 5 in the middle of the night. Very little wind is also nice but these icebox temperatures do require more attention outside to be sure all the flows keep going. The 3 Bovines are amazing at how they can take this weather, always with a smile. We also have wild turkeys just about everywhere, strolling single file here and there around the place. They roost in the trees and look like they are having a tough time with the weather, kind of hunched up all the time. The Elk are also everywhere eating anything they can find including Cedar boughs. We have a little snow at our elevation(2150) so they can still paw the ground and get to some food. They have totally cleaned our farm of anything left after the fall cleanup. Winter is here for sure and is much colder than last year so far.

    Still doing great after about a month "clean and sober" as they say in group. I do miss my buddy and her buddy Ginny just a little. The first couple weeks were a bit more euphoric than these days but now we have new friends, ourselves with more clarity every day. Even news from my urologist that he needs to do a prostate biopsy was greeted with tears of joy. I went in to see him on a fluke after failing to get a UA sample last week(the lock up). After the lock up I did a google search on the subject, did some mental work and "practice". This week I peed like a race horse for the latex gloved attendant and almost cancelled the specialist visit but thought, what the hell, I'll ask him about meds, side effects, etc. He of course ran me through the very thorough exam of a 67 year old guy who had not been in for many years. I am so glad I went in. We will be on top of whatever is going on with my plumbing. The irony of that is I have been doing very well with the flow the last year. More challenges seem to give me more strength. Same with my lovely wonderful Bride.

    lwien, my best guess is about a gram a day between us. A 'Z' would last under or over a month depending on availability. More if available, less if not. Remember, I live in Idaho. I would consume plenty if I had plenty. One of our great enjoyments these days is the extra funds we have available. Between MJ and booze, we would plunk out well over $300 per month. Now we are down to a bit over $1200(net) a month on SS and our summer farm income which adds $3-400 if spread evenly over 12 months which is very hard to do. If that seems low to some, remember everything is paid for and we raise our own meat and veges.

    Mo later. I do suppose most of you know marijuana is at the very bottom of the "addictive substances" list.(most addictive to least addictive). Tobacco is at the top followed by heroin. I am learning much in counseling, all very helpful on our new journey.
     
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  19. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,573
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    I think the "official" number is 12%, that is, 12% of those that use cannabis will become addicted.
     
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  20. Rick

    Rick Zapman

    Messages:
    1,216
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    We were told in group that the number on nicotine(official number) is 30 something percent. We all found that hard to believe. I cannot recall knowing any tobacco user that is not "addicted". It is so ironic at group because we have IV meth folks, several alcoholics, a Native American opiate guy and a couple of us potheads. Almost everyone cannot wait to get out for break to have a smoke. Some of them suck on those things til the tips look like blowtorches. And we are in an addiction group!!.............I am so happy I never got into those things even though I was around it everywhere as a child/young adult.
     
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  21. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,573
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    Yeah, I had a 3 pack a day habit around 35 years ago.
     
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  22. vbeazy

    vbeazy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    36
    Let me start with saying I'm glad you're doing so well and staying positive. You've been on quite the journey Rick. I remember first reading about this unjustified raid. Although I can't relate to being a consumer for decades, we're similar in our ways. I've been off the plant for a couple weeks now after daily use for many years. I quit cold turkey, & like you, I never did smoke cigarettes or have addictions. I'll never become a daily user of MJ again.

    It's funny, once you cut out the green after so long, you start wondering if it can be addictive. Although we know that's highly unlikely. I believe we can be dependent, though.

    My main problem was habit. I reached for the vape at every opportunity - before work, after work, on FC, it didn't matter. That was becoming a problem. When I didn't have enough in my system, I was easily set off or angry.

    I've come to realize MJ disguises the problem. I have back pain, and used to excuse my usage for that reason amongst others. But the fact is, MJ doesn't remove my muscle knots. It doesn't correct my posture. The one benefit I admit, was relief of migraines. Time will tell if they return.

    The money I've spent, the over thinking, the tension.. really makes a person reconsider. Do I need this? Do we need this? No..

    Stay strong Rick
     
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  23. Rick

    Rick Zapman

    Messages:
    1,216
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    vbeazy, very interesting comments.
    My counselor says I was addicted and I do not argue with him on that point. It matters not to me how the 'experts' define over 45 years of daily use. He used a 'form' and checked this and that to come up with his analysis. The last question was "do you become irritated in the evenings without your substance" to which I replied "sometimes, a little bit". AHAH! you are addicted! I smiled and said "try being married almost 50 years and live in a small house, then tell me you do not have some irritability". It really is kind of funny but the bottom line is I am getting some good counseling, one on one and group and I am learning alot. I take that stuff seriously and am amazed at how many in the group are clearly just putting in their time, especially when they REALLY need some help. As I mentioned earlier, all my counseling and UAs are paid by some institution somewhere because I am a first time offender with a clean record. I am very happy about that.

    Yes, vbeazy, habits is it. Maybe life is just a bunch of habits intertwined together in some kind of order? The habits are what get me as I used to hit the vape often and regularly. But we can change our habits, especially with good incentives to do so. My main incentive is a clean record in less than 17 months and freedom. Freedom to start a new career if I chose. Freedom from being a convicted felon. Freedom to dream every night. Freedom of a clear mind with with much more clarity and better memory both short and long term. Freedom of not hiding anything from anybody. Freedom to see LEO anywhere and not get anxious about anything. Sure, I miss my buddy and someday after the legal stuff is all over I may go back but I am pretty darn sure it will not be to the same level as the past 45 years. Only time will tell. I am looking forward to the next year and a half. Who knows what forks in the road will appear?

    Yesterday I went in for my UA as good old number 19 popped up on the random schedule. I had a long chat with a homeless guy named Ronny and it was good. He was very bitter about a lot of stuff, especially what he referred to as the the "Police State in Idaho". He referred to it as the Nazis and the Jews(citizens). Maybe, just maybe he had a better day as we talked for almost an hour while I waited for my flow to flow which happened just fine. I have pretty much beat the "shy bladder" thing with practice in public restrooms, peeing always at urinals rather than going in a stall with a closed door which I always did in the past. Googled it, read about it, a very common social phobia and stopped enabling it. My Doc even gave me some anti anxiety pills for my UAs but I have not used them.

    Ramble, ramble. Bottom line is Rick and Pat are doing well with the changes. Pat even tested negative last night with our home test strips. I will take longer but I know I am showing less and less every week. The pros have the good tests that show exactly how much 'stuff' you have in your system. You also will have a very tough time trying to beat them. Kind of like the speed limits. Just do it and you won't get the ticket.

    We figure we are saving well over $300 per month without the old habits BTW. Very helpful.
     
  24. Rick

    Rick Zapman

    Messages:
    1,216
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    A bit of an update that many of you might have seen in the Aromazap/MyrtleZap thread. We got some real good news last Thursday about the civil case against us. So far this thread has all been about the criminal case and me following the rules so I will get a withheld judgement in several months. Always held over our heads was the civil case and the related forfeiture of our property for manufacturing Aromazap.

    The last words about "it would best serve the interests of justice" was a bit ironic.

    [​IMG]
     
  25. placetime

    placetime Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    916
    What great news Rick! Seems like no matter what happens, good or bad, you always seem to hold steady. You remind me of Pete the Cat. :nod:
     
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