California Voters - The Next Prop 19

[OO]

I spoke a bit with Mr. Jolson after the failure of the previous proposition, and I believe he has a good head on his shoulders.

After reviewing the current propositions that may get the 19 title, I still think his is the best.

Here ya go.
http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/California_Cannabis_Hemp_and_Health_Initiative_(2012)

for the actual language, see here.
http://ag.ca.gov/cms_attachments/initiatives/pdfs/i1016_11-0073_(hemp_legalization).pdf

 

[VWFringe]

HAHAHAHAHA

that's a tall drink of water

why'd I assume there'd only be one, and that it wouldn't take off...oooh, gotta read some more

thanks, man,

 

[BigDaddyVapor]

We've got an ugly prop coming up in Bakersfield. The first one the City Council passed, stated any dispensary/co-op outside "city" limits, had to be closed. Which was a good portion of them. Once that got blocked, they created a new one that states the dispensaries can exist, but can't be within a mile of any public structure/park (no schools, libraries, DMV, DWP, etc). They also can't be within 1 mile of each other. There's some other crap to it, but we're screwed either way at this point. As what I was told, is that if this one fails to pass... the previous one, will go into effect.

I haven't read all of it yet, nor the consequences, mostly what I've talked about with others. I will however, be giving it a good read, here in the very near future.

 

[VapingDitto]

Regulate Marijuana Like Wine or RMLW for short is a good prop 19 alt

 

[weedemon]

what, so they rejeced the original prop becasue it was too strict and kinda dumb, so they wrote up a new one and said. if you don`t take thios one then the old one you already said was stupid will go into effect?

haha that makes sense to me!

 

[OO]

what, so they rejeced the original prop becasue it was too strict and kinda dumb, so they wrote up a new one and said. if you don`t take thios one then the old one you already said was stupid will go into effect?

haha that makes sense to me!

it took me a second or two to understand what your were referring to, please use the "quote" button next time.

 

[hogleg]

Personally I do not like the idea of regulating like alcohol who will have enough money to cut through the red tape? Phillip Morris and the like they already have thousands of acres in our emerald triangle. The people that want good shit will be right back on the streets and the growers will be more like bootleggers.

 

[OO]

Personally I do not like the idea of regulating like alcohol who will have enough money to cut through the red tape? Phillip Morris and the like they already have thousands of acres in our emerald triangle. The people that want good shit will be right back on the streets and the growers will be more like bootleggers.

did you read the link?

 

[BigDaddyVapor]

what, so they rejeced the original prop becasue it was too strict and kinda dumb, so they wrote up a new one and said. if you don`t take thios one then the old one you already said was stupid will go into effect?

haha that makes sense to me!

I'm not really sure, as to what happens if this new one doesn't pass. The newspaper (local) I was reading made reference to reverting to the previous ordinance.

What had happened, was the City Council made the original ordinance. No vote was put forth to the public. The out-cry was HUGE, so THEY wrote this new ordinance and are placing it on the ballot, as if to say... "OK, we're giving you a choice. Take it or leave it!". They know damn well, its a damned if we do, damned if we don't prospect.

 

[OO]

http://www.cchhi2012.org/placestosign.html
here are some locations where you may sign the initiative!!!

 

[OO]

this is a huge first step, and one i'm afraid isn't getting enough attention now, when it is critical.

 

[Roy D Mercer]

May I suggest personalizing messages with examples of injustices done under existing laws (e.g. promising young lives shattered by single encounter with law enforcement, families with children divided because of simple possession, etc. etc.) Make a complex message simple, moving, meaningful and relevant at the personal level. Would make a possible news media relations platform.

Edit: Sorry, that looked a bit abrupt. I like the proposed Prop. 19 per its outline. That said, it is important to distinguish THIS proposition from the others. I offer the above as a possible point of departure toward building public awareness and support.

 

[Venomous]

I see several issues with it that won't make this a reality. The problem is releasing those in jail/prison for non violent crimes and also purging any prior convictions. Ca voters are not going to vote yes on 19, ESP when the smear campaigns run with words such as "legalization marijuana within prop 19 will allow convicted criminals to be free, blah blah bah."

I was in law enforcement for 20 yrs and smoked herb almost everyday when I got home. When I was hired, there were no random drug testing and our union stopped it from ever happening. Newer hired officers were required to random drug test, but anyone hired prior to 1997 didn't have to. Lots of law enforcement officers smoke herb, at least from my 20yrs of working with a lot of dudes.

I can remember growing up as skid, my brothers were 9 and 11 years older to me and would get me high starting at age 10 while listening to iron maiden, black sabbath, etc. I stopped around the age of 13 and never smoked until after being on the job. You see a lot of shit and I'd rather be an undercover token then a drunk or pill popper like the rest of the guys I worked with. Marijuana was a more natural medication that never altered me into doing anything stupid like beating my wife or treating my kids terrible. I can't say the same for alcohol or Rx medi guys were abusing. There were at least 30 of us who smoked herb my first few years in and we even started our own herb club. There were other guys who had Cigar club thing going, so fuck it, we did the same.

The thing about ca and it's very liberal mentality is, marijuana being legalized isn't an issue. It's when these assembly bills come to fruition, people stick ludicrous things in there like releasing people from jail or having previous convictions being expunged. I have to ask, does being convicted of a non violent crime while using alcohol give the right to have previous convictions erased and being released from jail? No, it doesnt.

They need over a half million people to sign this to get it placed on the ballot, not to mention the money that will be required to pull this off.. Only to have it shot down by voters because they want convicts released and prior convictions expunged. It's a waste of time, money and resources to even push prop 19 as it will fail immediately. I wish people would be more realistic about these things before wasting efforts.

It's bad enough these people are closing dispensaries left and right, forcing them to go mobile delivery and stretching legalities for these people if they get pulled over during a delivery. I want to see marijuana legalized in ca just as much as the young stoner or of toker does. But come on, releasing criminals from jail and having their prior conviction expunged isn't going to happen, ever.

 

[Roy D Mercer]

You raise a good point about likely voter resistance to opening prison doors and expunging records. That's a very tall task in addition to decriminalizing marijuana, hemp production, etc. and probably would best be cast in its own voter initiative.

Also appreciated your candid revelations about cannabis use among law enforcement personnel. Interesting contradictions there.

I tripped over your apples and oranges comparison of pot possession as a crime vs. commission of a non-violent criminal offense under the influence of alcohol. Nobody I have heard here is attempting to excuse conduct while under the influence of pot.

Referring to people convicted of nonviolent pot possession as "criminals" simply isn't appropriate in this setting, IMHO. I reserve the name "criminals" to describe killers, rapists, bankers and other serious threats to society.

 

[Venomous]

You raise a good point about likely voter resistance to opening prison doors and expunging records. That's a very tall task in addition to decriminalizing marijuana, hemp production, etc. and probably would best be cast in its own voter initiative.

Also appreciated your candid revelations about cannabis use among law enforcement personnel. Interesting contradictions there.

I tripped over your apples and oranges comparison of pot possession as a crime vs. commission of a non-violent criminal offense under the influence of alcohol. Nobody I have heard here is attempting to excuse conduct while under the influence of pot.

Referring to people convicted of nonviolent pot possession as "criminals" simply isn't appropriate in this setting, IMHO. I reserve the name "criminals" to describe killers, rapists, bankers and other serious threats to society.

Thanks... And just to clarify, you do not goto prison unless you have a criminal history. The real only exceptions to this is obviously manslaughter, murder and narcotics trafficking. I think it's easier to say, most of the people in the system now, belong there. There's very few exceptions. And I never ran across a person who was convicted on marijuana charges alone.

 

[WatTyler]

I think it's easier to say, most of the people in the system now, belong there.

For real? Not trying to start an argument, just to understand - I'm not from there. When I look at the figures below what strikes me is how ahead of the pack the USA is, and secondly how out of place it is amongst lesser economically developed countries.

Of course, it might be the case that the USA is the most badass criminal country out of all these in the world, but I don't think so? But similarly I don't think that the average American has the toughest view on punishment out of all the cultures in the world- some places it really is almost an eye for an eye.

So what gives? Surely there can't be that many more people that deserve to be in prison than there are in Canada or Europe? Or would you argue that we are too lenient?

# 1 United States: 2,019,234 prisoners
# 2 China: 1,549,000 prisoners
# 3 Russia: 846,967 prisoners
# 4 India: 313,635 prisoners
# 5 Brazil: 308,304 prisoners
# 6 Thailand: 213,815 prisoners
# 7 Ukraine: 198,386 prisoners

Per Capita
# 1 United States: 715 per 100,000 people
# 2 Russia: 584 per 100,000 people
# 3 Belarus: 554 per 100,000 people
# 4 Palau: 523 per 100,000 people
# 5 Belize: 459 per 100,000 people
# 6 Suriname: 437 per 100,000 people
# 7 Dominica: 420 per 100,000 people

 

[Venomous]

For real? Not trying to start an argument, just to understand - I'm not from there. When I look at the figures below what strikes me is how ahead of the pack the USA is, and secondly how out of place it is amongst lesser economically developed countries.

Of course, it might be the case that the USA is the most badass criminal country out of all these in the world, but I don't think so? But similarly I don't think that the average American has the toughest view on punishment out of all the cultures in the world- some places it really is almost an eye for an eye.

So what gives? Surely there can't be that many more people that deserve to be in prison than there are in Canada or Europe? Or would you argue that we are too lenient?

You left out, the most important country, Australia. They have the most violent prisoners in the entire world. They dont have a large population of inmates but they do have the most high prison thrn anywhere in the world to hold the badass of all badasses.

California is the most unique state in the USA because we have what they call the three strikes law. You can commit 2 violent crimes and be given life on your third conviction, whether violent or not. It has caused insane amounts of overcrowding, causing more uprising in prisons. It has also caused an economic strain on the state as well. To give you an example, both new York and California have the same number of prisons... 36. The difference is, New Yorks prisons hold 500 inmates where's CA prisons hold 4000-5000 inmates per prison.

 

[Roy D Mercer]

Wat -- I am not standing down on the issue of freeing people imprisoned for pot. And I still agree with seeking to expunge records. What I wish we could do is to uncouple the hemp and recreational cannabis initiative from the freeing of prisoners and expunging of records. The reason: too much crammed into a single initiative.

Voters who otherwise support Prop. 19's legalization of hemp may not be willing to go along with freeing prisoners and expunging records (even though I would applaud it!). Ideally, each issue should get plenty of attention and publicity -- separately -- so that opposition to one element by voters doesn't sink both.

This isn't a perfect world and there probably is no time to rework and qualify the proposition. So if it makes it onto the state ballot, I will campaign and vote for Prop. 19, despite its imperfections.

Meanwhile, we need to shame this nation's status as the world's greatest jailer of its citizens. The evil of privately owned corporate prisons -- with mandatory "take or pay" occupancy guarantees -- further incents justice/law enforcement to incarcerate more and more people for lesser and lesser offenses.

 

[Frederick McGuire]

You left out, the most important country, Australia. They have the most violent prisoners in the entire world. They dont have a large population of inmates but they do have the most high prison thrn anywhere in the world to hold the badass of all badasses.

Wait, is this a light hearted dig at our convict roots, or is that actually true?
I've never heard of our inmates being particularly violent...
I've also never really researched the subject
Also, what's supposed to be instead of the "thrn" I quoted?
It kinda made it hard to google that bit haha.

 

[Venomous]

Wat -- I am not standing down on the issue of freeing people imprisoned for pot. And I still agree with seeking to expunge records. What I wish we could do is to uncouple the hemp and recreational cannabis initiative from the freeing of prisoners and expunging of records. The reason: too much crammed into a single initiative.

Voters who otherwise support Prop. 19's legalization of hemp may not be willing to go along with freeing prisoners and expunging records (even though I would applaud it!). Ideally, each issue should get plenty of attention and publicity -- separately -- so that opposition to one element by voters doesn't sink both.

This isn't a perfect world and there probably is no time to rework and qualify the proposition. So if it makes it onto the state ballot, I will campaign and vote for Prop. 19, despite its imperfections.

Meanwhile, we need to shame this nation's status as the world's greatest jailer of its citizens. The evil of privately owned corporate prisons -- with mandatory "take or pay" occupancy guarantees -- further incents justice/law enforcement to incarcerate more and more people for lesser and lesser offenses.

Yeah I'm with you, it's totally to much crammed into one bill. I think efforts focused to legalizing, transport, use, etc should be the main focus. You could then go after expunged previous convictions later. I'm still not all happy for releasing criminals from prison because marijuana isn't the actual leading cause as to why they were there unless they were a dealer. Most dealers also sell more then just pot too. When you see a persons record, you will realize they're in prison for a reason.

 

[Venomous]

Wait, is this a light hearted dig at our convict roots, or is that actually true?
I've never heard of our inmates being particularly violent...
I've also never really researched the subject
Also, what's supposed to be instead of the "thrn" I quoted?
It kinda made it hard to google that bit haha.

It's actually true.. Australia built that super max prison for a reason, not to mention, the most difficult convicts in New Zealand are sent there without hesitation. Aussie government came to pelican bay before building there version of it... They took it to an entirely different level and have the most advanced corrections system in the world.

 

[OO]

I greatly appreciate your input Venom, as it is very valuable.
Although I want to change California's three strikes system, it is not necessarily the reason I support this proposal over the others.
The Idea of expunging possession charges from the records of those who committed what only a minority of Californians consider a crime seems to me to be the main benefit. The release of those who had non-violent cannabis charges upgraded in order to meet the third strike is a huge added bonus.

 

[Venomous]

I greatly appreciate your input Venom, as it is very valuable.
Although I want to change California's three strikes system, it is not necessarily the reason I support this proposal over the others.
The Idea of expunging possession charges from the records of those who committed what only a minority of Californians consider a crime seems to me to be the main benefit. The release of those who had non-violent cannabis charges upgraded in order to meet the third strike is a huge added bonus.

I hear ya, we just need to approach this with baby steps. Cutting through it layer by layer will most likely be more successful. As it stands a lot of these politicians will never be factual about marijuana and will claim it will introduce opiates and such to become legal later. Sort of like a scare tactic to the public. Also look at how much money these pharmaceutical companies are putting up to fight legalization of marijuana.The kicker is, they are doing it silently .Albeit if we had access to their books, we would see very generous donations being made to their campaign funds...