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Benefit for dogs

Discussion in 'Medical Discussion' started by olivianewtonjohn, Nov 28, 2013.

  1. olivianewtonjohn

    olivianewtonjohn Well-Known Member

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    Well first id like to say that when medicating our fury animals its important to be extremely careful. Ultimately you have to make the right decisions for your pets.

    I have a lab who is 13+ years old. Over a period of the last few years she has developed osteoporosis, likely some arthritis, has had two ACL surgeries (one on each leg), and a dislocated hip due to the osteoporosis (surgeon essentially cut a part of the ball-of the leg bone that connects to the hip so muscle would grow in that area to reduce the likelihood of dislocating it again).

    So as you can probably tell she has trouble walking and is in some pain. When vaping I started to give her small amounts of secondhand vap and noticed she seemed to enjoy it. Lately other family members have noticed that she gets alittle hyper after administration (starts rolling around) and sometimes hungry but then she passes out (deep sleep). At times I used to see her legs twitching (possibly due to the pain), I have noticed less twitching (makes sense she goes to deep sleep after all). The next day we have noticed she even walks alittle bit better (possibly due to her being well rested not too sure). Either way I am seeing only positive effects thus far, I am always careful to slowly increase dose and have been watching for any negative effects.

    This is in contrast with one of the medicines that the vet told me was an option (which I read reports of one of the side effects being internal bleeding). I am so happy to have found something that seems to be helping her in a very noticeable way. We continue to monitor her and make sure she is still having a good life (we know if pain gets too much we might have to one day make a decision) but thus far she seems to be overall enjoying life.

    Not all dogs seem to react the same though, their biochemistry and weight logically have impacts. For example I gave a smaller chihuahua mix some second hand vap and she became too excited. I had to repeatedly make her lay down and rest, after awhile, maybe 15mins of laying on her side she went to sleep. This happened awhile ago and taught me to always be very cautious with dosage.

    Since discovering this, I have made a vapor lung and have been giving a small dose to my dog every night. Dogs noses are alot more sensitive than ours so the hits need to have a high air to vap ratio. Secondhand vap of the baby hits I take seemed good. With the vapor lung I only pull in vapor for a small portion of the bag then pull the rest fresh air which dilutes it and seems to mimic second hand vap.
     
  2. smokum

    smokum I am who I am and your approval isn't needed!

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  3. nat3r

    nat3r VaPeLoRd

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    Cool, it goes without saying that this would be a bad idea with growing dogs, but for elder dogs I bet it would be fine.
     
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  4. Quetzalcoatl

    Quetzalcoatl SPACE GOD 宇宙

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    Was the drug called Previcox? Shit works miracles, for both dogs and horses. Just because possible side effects are listed doesn't mean they'll occur.
     
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  5. olivianewtonjohn

    olivianewtonjohn Well-Known Member

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    Yes of course even giving it to a full grown dog might not be the best idea. I really view it has medicine for her. The difference is night and day! At her age im not concerned about long term health and really want to focus on making her as comfortable as possible. Overall she is still a very happy dog who enjoys life.

    I will have to ask someone else in my family, I dont remember. I should have explained, it was not necessarily just because of the listed side effects but based on the different people online posting how their dog died due to internal bleeding after being put on it. I am not against prescription medicine but those stories did make me nervous. I will do more research. Thank you.
     
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  6. Quetzalcoatl

    Quetzalcoatl SPACE GOD 宇宙

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    If it is Previcox, before I got my pup (the pit) my dad and I rescued an old old lab that couldn't walk for shit anymore, basically laid down under a tree opposite of our property to die because she couldn't move. Finally after eating little and being on the verge of death, she bounced back and pops got her on Previcox. The difference was fucking ridiculous, she went from barely being able to walk to trotting to the gate to greet me when I was home from school. I know a couple of other dogs and a lot of horses that are on it and the vast majority of them are doing well.

    The only other drug I can think of off the top of my head that's non-narcotic and somewhat commonly prescribed for dogs is phenylbutazone (commonly referred to as just "Bute") which carries more risks than Previcox does.

    The only narcotic drug for pain that dogs regularly get is tramadol, which works for a long time (at least in people, effects 6-12hrs were common for me from a single dose) but it's kinda hard to wean off it because it's an opiate and a SNRI antidepressant (some SNRI's are used for pain management by themselves too).

    Of course, you'd have to pay for all this stuff... exhaling vapor doesn't cost much outside of what you pay for nug to begin with.

    Anyways if you can't tell I'm high as fuck and I feel like I'm rambling on too much so best of luck to you and your pup.
     
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  7. olivianewtonjohn

    olivianewtonjohn Well-Known Member

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    LOL no you are not rambling on at all, :tup: to the high as fuck part though. Thank you for the information and experience, I will update with how my research goes and what I decide to do.
     
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  8. VaporsVaporizer

    VaporsVaporizer On the Stoop

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    JMHO :)

    OK as a licensed Veterinary Nurse there is no way in hell i'd ever blow
    vaped weed in my pets faces. yes i know you're only giving a little, but having treated quite a few pets with marijuana toxicity over the years i just wouldn't feel comfortable doing to them what i do on a daily basis lol. That is not an accurate dosing method for safety and efficacy . Do i think Marijuana can help pets-I'm sure it can , but i'd use a different route of administration ;)

    https://www.avma.org/news/javmanews/pages/130615a.aspx

    I'm not giving my stamp of approval on anything that i have never personally used to medicate animals or researched thoroughly, but this site is promising

    http://canna-pet.com and they have removed the psychoactive properties.

    I have a friend who just started using this on her 4 year old SpringerX with Acute Glaucoma.I'll come back and report when she's used it for a week or two on her dog.

    All drugs have side effects but these drugs do work well to control pain -have i seen the really bad reactions from these drugs -YES and it was bad. They usually happen within the first few days. I know many dogs that have been on these drugs for years -same as people.

    Pain Medications for Dogs: Side Effects

    The most common side effects from NSAIDs include:

    • vomiting
    • loss of appetite
    • depression
    • lethargy
    • diarrhea
    Serious side effects include:

    • gastrointestinal bleeding
    • ulcers
    • perforations
    • kidney damage
    • liver problems
    "The side effects of NSAIDs are very well known and very well documented," says Michele Sharkey, D.V.M. But this information is not always getting to the pet owner, she says. "If the pet owner can recognize a possible reaction, stop the medication, and get veterinary help, it could mean the difference between a good outcome and a disaster."

    Safety and Effectiveness
    The CVM (FDA Center for Veterinary Medicine), which regulates medications for use in animals, has approved some NSAIDs for use in dogs with pain from degenerative joint disease (osteoarthritis) or with pain after surgery. These medications include:

    • Etogesic (etodolac)
    • Rimadyl (carprofen)
    • Metacam (meloxicam)
    • Zubrin (tepoxalin)
    • Deramaxx (deracoxib)
    • Previcox (firocoxib)
    • Novox (generic carprofen)
    NSAIDs help to control signs of arthritis, including:

    • inflammation
    • swelling
    • stiffness
    • joint pain
    Inflammation (the body's response to irritation or injury) is characterized by redness, warmth, swelling, and pain. NSAIDs work by blocking the production of prostaglandins, the body chemicals that cause inflammation.

    The FDA considers approved NSAIDs to be safe and effective when used according to the label and when dog owners are informed about common NSAID adverse reactions.

    And veterinarians are becoming increasingly aware of the advantages of recognizing and controlling pain, says Charles Lemme, D.V.M., "We recognize that pets are healing better and faster with pain control."

    Lemme says that the emphasis on pain management may be partly because of the availability of the newer NSAIDs. "The NSAIDs we have available now are a lot safer than what we've had before and we're seeing far fewer side effects than before."

    Before the newer generation of NSAIDs came along, "people were using NSAIDs such as aspirin in an attempt to mitigate arthritic pain," says Michael Andrews, D.V.M., "We saw the consequence of their use," adds Andrews, who recalls seeing a client who gave her dog aspirin for six weeks, two times a day. "The dog had a bleeding nose that wouldn't stop."

    "NSAIDs are used in many, many dogs and the frequency of problems is quite low," says Andrews. "The duration of use makes a difference in safety. If used for a day or two, the risks often are much lower than when used over long periods of time for a chronic arthritic condition."

    Drugs used to control pain should be given only when necessary, and in the smallest dose that is effective, says Sharkey. "Arthritis waxes and wanes. Some animals get worse in cold weather. If the dog seems to improve to the point of not needing the drug, the owner should discuss continued use of the NSAID with a veterinarian."

    An owner should never give an NSAID to a pet, or increase the dose or frequency of a drug, without the veterinarian's instructions, adds Sharkey. "Just like different people respond differently to a drug, the way each dog responds to an NSAID varies." Because of this individual response, no one NSAID is considered more effective than another, and because every NSAID can cause adverse reactions, none is considered safer than others.

    If a dog is prescribed an NSAID, the CVM recommends that pet owners take the following steps to make sure they are fully informed about the medication and can make the best decision for their dog's health.
     
  9. olivianewtonjohn

    olivianewtonjohn Well-Known Member

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    I am very busy this week and I dont think I can give this the time it deserves. A quick question I had based on what you said about toxicity. From everywhere I have read in the cases where a dog has issues is usually in accidental dosing or with edibles? I understand there is some variability in dosing via second hand smoke or with a vap lung....but in the case of second hand smoke we are talking my typical bitch hits (very small) from a small water pipe and I only give her two exhales. The amount of MJ I use is less than .010 gram and of that small amount I only give two small exhales of second hand smoke and with the vap lung even less; small zip lock bag and only the first 1/3 is vap and the rest is fresh air.

    Appreciate the info and I will give this the time it deserves later in the week.
     
  10. nopartofme

    nopartofme Well-Known Member

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    :razz:
     
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  11. Snappo

    Snappo Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!" Accessory Maker

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    I really admire the concern that is being shown for our animals. VaporsVaporizer's post was perfectly timed and most appropriate. It doesn't appear from what has been demonstrated here that the inhalation therapy dosages used have posed any real threat of toxicity, although caution is always advised and a keen eye on what's happening post-administration. If edginess or hyperactivity is evident, as well as appreciable pain relief, I might suggest a higher indica/CBD strain be used in same or lower concentration on a follow-up trial. Be a very very very sensitive observer to the demeanor of your furry loved one, and interact sensitively only if it brings about positive response. The only reason to continue with this trial therapy is if it works for pain, and/or promotes a mental state that helps to overcome the debilitation of pain.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2013
  12. Quetzalcoatl

    Quetzalcoatl SPACE GOD 宇宙

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    Yeah the stuff I've read about weed od in pets is from edibles... Stuff like brownies is already not good for dogs...

    Like Snappo said, watchful eyes!
     
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  13. Snappo

    Snappo Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!" Accessory Maker

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    I'm very attracted to the idea of first trying on myself the CBD concentrations like CibDix or Dixie puts out, and if it really works, sharing the blessing (experimentally) with the angel. It will be important to keep in mind that what works well for us may not necessarilly do the same for them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2013
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  14. Quetzalcoatl

    Quetzalcoatl SPACE GOD 宇宙

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    Definitely. My friend's dog gets baked after one sizable vapor cloud to the ear (again, I'm not recommending anyone do this out of principle!) and he was fucked. We need a bit more... then again we've got tolerance to it and they don't ;)
     
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  15. Snappo

    Snappo Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!" Accessory Maker

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    EXCELLENT POINT you make!!!

    Hey!? I wonder if we can have such effect with vapor blown into our own ear? Vapes with fans, or bags, could do the job for sure! We might have discovered a new entry point!
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2013
  16. VaporsVaporizer

    VaporsVaporizer On the Stoop

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    Yes, most studies about toxicity and all the first hand cases i've seen at work were from ingestion of weed, BUT THC in marijuana is toxic to pets. Blowing vaped fumes at them will get them high. One of my cats was in the room once when a friend was combusting and i didn't see him and he got wasted and i felt awful :(

    Animals are not like us and they never enjoy narcotics/sedatives etc like we do :D. When we have surgery we're asking for the codine/ morphine/valium etc. They fight it and the feelings they get from any sort of sedative etc.

    They don't know why they feel like that so unless they are dosed to sleep, they usually fight that feeling.

    Controlling pain in animals is very tricky,they hide pain well unless it obvious, and they never tell us what they are feeling.

    I'd call the people at Cannapet if that's the route you wanna take, as long as the psychoactive properties are removed from the stuff it should be ok ?

    http://www.vetstream.com/canis/Content/Disease/dis00283.asp

    http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?C=299&S=0

    http://www.acva.org/docs/Pain_Treatment
     
  17. olivianewtonjohn

    olivianewtonjohn Well-Known Member

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    @Quetzalcoatl I checked and the cost of Previcox is really high, I will not be able to go that route; I have my friend (works at vet clinic) looking to see if there are other options.

    @VaporsVaporizer that CBD pill sounds very interesting....Will have to research more but im liking the thought of her getting all the benefits without worrying about the THC
     
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  18. weedemon

    weedemon enthusiast

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    this thread reminds me of an old one discussed a long time ago. but the tone is very different this time.

    in the case of giving it to a dog that is suffering an ailment, (that one would treat with pot as a human) then I could see the advantage of giving your furry friend a dose. if you do this though. remember! they are usually a lot smaller than us! I believe that it can have a stronger effect on them than us. Imagine yourself a lightweight again...

    I have heard of a couple dogs and know of one personally that will lose bladder control if he gets into anything weed related.

    I wouldn't do it to my dog unless i believed it would benefit her for some medicinal reason. getting your friend who trusts you like that "high" for fun is just cruel imo.

    I've seen people get their cats high and it didn't look to me as though they enjoyed it. all cracked out and skittish. :(

    we don't have the right to force that on our friends who can't tell us to stop it. ok, I'm done :)
     
  19. VaporsVaporizer

    VaporsVaporizer On the Stoop

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    Losing bladder control after cannabis ingestion is quite common in pets.
     
  20. olivianewtonjohn

    olivianewtonjohn Well-Known Member

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    Well sorry for not updating the thread. Every so often I get a like notification. My labrador passed away a few weeks after posting this thread. She was 13 and had been through alot (three surgeries). She threw up in the morning (tried to make it to the door), and had her typical "im sorry" look. I wasnt awake during this time but hours later I noticed she wasnt as active and didnt want to get up. Hours after that she started to have very crossed eyes, tongue sticking out. She couldnt get up and did not allow us to help (pain). We called an in home vet to come and put her down since we didnt want to cause any pain transporting her. She gave her a tranquilizer to calm her and then the injection. Rather than dispose of her (guess this is common), we buried her in the backyard. Totally sucked since I grew up with her, we had her for more than half of my life.

    Didnt get a chance to try canna pet, but if your dog has chronic pain I recommend trying vap or canna pet. I can say that the vapor helped her in her time of need.
     
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  21. VaporsVaporizer

    VaporsVaporizer On the Stoop

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  22. kimura

    kimura Well-Known Member

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    I certainly am not qualified to disagree with that statement.

    However one of my good friends who I used to hang out with all the time in my early 20's had a beautiful boxer who would go wayyy out of her way to try to lap up any exhaled herb smoke (alas, it was smoke at that time.) if you had any particularly fragrant raw material in your pocket she would sniff at it and wag her tail in excitement. we would sit down for a session and the dog would sit patiently, watching us pass whatever around. she would then do whatever she could to literally lap up any smoke that was exhaled, preferably directly from your mouth... I was never comfortable with the whole exercise and pushed her away, but her owner would occasionally let her have a small hit. she would then proceed to run around, jumping and rolling and carrying on, then she would calm down and just relax for an hour or so, sometimes taking a nap. I've never seen anything like this before or since, and I've always thought it was crazy and told stories about it. The dog really seemed to want to participate whether you wanted her to or not.

    What do you think was going on here?
     
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  23. Quetzalcoatl

    Quetzalcoatl SPACE GOD 宇宙

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    Probably liked getting high. Cats have catnip. Dogs have dank.
     
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