Only gringos call quesadillas sandwiches! j/k 
Are quesadilla sandwiches?
- Thread starter 2 Cycle
- Start date
Vapor_Eyes
taste buds
“In the United States, a court in Boston, Massachusetts ruled in 2006 that a sandwich includes at least two slices of bread and "under this definition, this court finds that the term 'sandwich' is not commonly understood to include burritos, tacos, and quesadillas, which are typically made with a single tortilla and stuffed with a choice filling of meat, rice, and beans." The issue stemmed from the question of whether a restaurant that sold burritos could move into a shopping centre where another restaurant had a no-compete clause in its lease prohibiting other "sandwich" shops.”
Source: Wikipedia
Even Yankees agree that quesadillas aren’t sandwiches. If a quesadilla is a sandwich, what’s next, a calzone? It’s a slippery slope...
Source: Wikipedia
Even Yankees agree that quesadillas aren’t sandwiches. If a quesadilla is a sandwich, what’s next, a calzone? It’s a slippery slope...
DeeCee5
Livin' La Vida Loca in FL
BTW: The above court case was Panera Bread vs. Qdoba.
This is a slippery slope...
By the Mass courts definition of "sandwich (must include two slices of bread)", hamburgers and hot dogs would be sandwiches, but deli meat, cheese and veggies in a pita pocket would not be a sandwich.
Also an open faced bagel with cream cheese and lox would not be a sandwich, but if you put the two halves of the bagel together, it would be a sandwich.
Madri-Gal
Child Of The Revolution
Excellent points. I'm glad I'm not in Massachusetts. I'd have to change my lunch plans entirely.
bizwaxzion
Enigmatic Cannabist
If a quesadilla is a sandwich then hockey is a water sport?
Yes, close relative to the Oreo.
2 Cycle
Well-Known Member
I live in this state and don’t accept this ruling. Sounds like someone was paid off to come to the decision they did.
@2 Cycle, what do you say about a scoop of ice cream served on a brownie? If you sliced it, and put ice cream in the center, it's an ice cream sandwich. If you put a scoop on top, is it then an open faced sammich?
I call it delicious! I think this is an open faced sandwich by my own definiton. Heavenly hash on brownie omg
@2 Cycle, what do you say about a scoop of ice cream served on a brownie? If you sliced it, and put ice cream in the center, it's an ice cream sandwich. If you put a scoop on top, is it then an open faced sammich?
I call it delicious! I think this is an open faced sandwich by my own definiton. Heavenly hash on brownie omg
Vapor_Eyes
taste buds
Yes it’s very slippery indeed. If a quesadilla is a sandwich than by extension a pizza would qualify as an open faced sandwich. At least the Brits and Aussies have some guidelines in place. Although the rules can be confusing themselves. From the same Wikipedia article as my previous post:
“In the United Kingdom and Australia, the term sandwich is more narrowly defined than in the United States: it refers only to an item which uses sliced bread from a loaf. An item with similar fillings, but using an entire bread roll cut horizontally in half, is always referred to as a roll. (In South Australia, there is a regional variant of the roll, superficially similar to a club sandwich, where the bread roll is sliced three times with parallel cuts, and filling is put in the first and third openings, but not the second. This makes the resulting double cut roll easier to handle: the top half and the bottom half are eaten separately.) Any hot item based on a bread roll is referred to as a burger, never as a sandwich. However, hot sliced (not ground) beef between two slices of toasted bread is referred to as a steak sandwich: it is the sliced loaf bread that distinguishes the steak sandwich from a burger.”
So if I understand correctly, turkey of any temperature between two slices of bread is a sandwich, cold turkey in a sliced roll would be a roll, and hot turkey in a sliced roll would be a burger?
I tend to conceptualize a sandwich as being two pieces of bread vertically arranged with a filling in between. It doesn’t matter if the bread is a roll or slices from a loaf. A hamburger would fit this definition but a hot dog would not. An open faced sandwich would be a subcategory like an egg white omelette or decaf coffee.
All I know is, I love sandwiches of all varieties. Monte Cristos are one of my favorites, as well as a nice BLAT (bacon, lettuce, avocado, and tomato). I think breakfast sandwiches are the best though!
Tranquility
Well-Known Member
https://www.fool.com/investing/valu...-things-overhead-at-the-paneraqdoba-hear.aspx
White City v. PR Restaurants,
No. 2006196313. (Mass. Cmmw. Oct. 31, 2006)
In a similar case, the court held a taco, burrito or quesadilla is NOT a sandwich. They gave a similar definition as used in the case mentioned in the tread previously ("The New Webster Third International Dictionary describes a "sandwich" as "two thin pieces of bread, usually buttered, with a thin layer (as of meat, cheese, or savory mixture) spread between them."") and came to the conclusion that common sense shows a tortilla is NOT "bread" so a taco, burrito or quesadilla is NOT a sandwich. When it was pointed out to the court there was controlling authority saying that a corn tortilla IS bread, the court distinguished the holding by saying:
Apparently, Scalia said about the sandwich case, "Important Decisions sometimes come in small packages". He "stated himself that he believed that Panera’s claim was ridiculous. I refuse the basic premise that an expert may simply state that he or she, “does not think something should be”". (https://www.onesandwich.com/one-sandwich-blog/)
But, Posner disagrees (https://www.memphisdailynews.com/news/2016/feb/11/show-me-the-bread-two-slices-please//print):
Another side to the legal "debate" see https://www.legalwritingpro.com/articles/reading-law-reading-think-posner-v-scalia/ .
--------------------
Other relevant questions:
1. If you buy two open-faced roast beef, um, breadbeefgravys, have you bought a sandwich?
2. What is Chicken? (https://casetext.com/case/frigaliment-importing-co-v-bns-intl-sales#p117)
3. Is a tomato a fruit or a vegetable? (https://casetext.com/case/nix-v-hedden#p306)
4. What is insect repellent? (https://casetext.com/case/avon-products-inc-v-sc-johnson-son-inc#p770)
5. Is an airplane a motor vehicle? (https://casetext.com/case/mcboyle-v-united-states#p27)
6. What is bingo? (https://casetext.com/case/us-v-103-electronic-gambling-devices#p1093)
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The Top 10 things overheard at the Panera/Qdoba hearing:
10. Objection, your Honor! That's delicious!
9. Can we get them on the rule that a "u" must always follow a "q?"
8. Didn't Clinton question the definition of the word "is" in his defense?
7. OK, OK, but can I talk you into ruling that our Crispani flatbread pizzas are tostadas?
6. That's "nacho" decision to make, Your Honor.
5. Jack's head looks much bigger on TV.
4. I knew that a baker's dozen would be an unlucky number.
3. The Earl of Sandwich was most definitely not from Mexico.
2. Great! Now our landlord is putting a Chipotle (NYSE:CMG) in our restroom.
And the number one thing overhead at the Panera/Qdoba hearing is .
1. If the bread doesn't fit, you must remit!
-------------------------10. Objection, your Honor! That's delicious!
9. Can we get them on the rule that a "u" must always follow a "q?"
8. Didn't Clinton question the definition of the word "is" in his defense?
7. OK, OK, but can I talk you into ruling that our Crispani flatbread pizzas are tostadas?
6. That's "nacho" decision to make, Your Honor.
5. Jack's head looks much bigger on TV.
4. I knew that a baker's dozen would be an unlucky number.
3. The Earl of Sandwich was most definitely not from Mexico.
2. Great! Now our landlord is putting a Chipotle (NYSE:CMG) in our restroom.
And the number one thing overhead at the Panera/Qdoba hearing is .
1. If the bread doesn't fit, you must remit!
But, MA's courts seem to find, um, conveniently on the issue:White City v. PR Restaurants,
No. 2006196313. (Mass. Cmmw. Oct. 31, 2006)
In a similar case, the court held a taco, burrito or quesadilla is NOT a sandwich. They gave a similar definition as used in the case mentioned in the tread previously ("The New Webster Third International Dictionary describes a "sandwich" as "two thin pieces of bread, usually buttered, with a thin layer (as of meat, cheese, or savory mixture) spread between them."") and came to the conclusion that common sense shows a tortilla is NOT "bread" so a taco, burrito or quesadilla is NOT a sandwich. When it was pointed out to the court there was controlling authority saying that a corn tortilla IS bread, the court distinguished the holding by saying:
In Sabritas, the International Trade Court applied the commercial meaning, rather than the ordinary meaning of bread, to corn tacos shells for purposes of levying tariffs. 22 C.I.T. at 59 (Ct. Int'l Trade 1998). Here, the commercial meaning of "bread" is inapposite where it is the ordinary meaning that is relevant when interpreting an unambiguous contractual term such as"sandwiches." Ober, 318 Mass at 39.
------------------Apparently, Scalia said about the sandwich case, "Important Decisions sometimes come in small packages". He "stated himself that he believed that Panera’s claim was ridiculous. I refuse the basic premise that an expert may simply state that he or she, “does not think something should be”". (https://www.onesandwich.com/one-sandwich-blog/)
But, Posner disagrees (https://www.memphisdailynews.com/news/2016/feb/11/show-me-the-bread-two-slices-please//print):
“Dictionaries are mazes in which judges are soon lost.” Thus said Judge Richard Posner (7th Circuit Court of Appeals) in a review of “Reading Law: The Interpretation of Legal Texts” by Justice Antonin Scalia and legal lexicographer Bryan Garner.
“Omitting contrary evidence,” Posner wrote, is the authors’ “favorite rhetorical device.”
Posner posited that Scalia and Garner “applaud” a 2006 Massachusetts case called White City Shopping Center v. PR Restaurants, 21 Mass. L. Rptr. 565. In which it was held that the word “sandwiches” in a lease did not include tacos, burritos, and quesadillas. Why? In essence, say Scalia and Garner, because a dictionary definition cited by the trial court gives a sandwich two pieces of bread, and tacos have only one. Scalia and Garner imply that the dictionary definition controlled, claims Posner, whereas the trial court went beyond that limit.
Facts. Panera Bread had an exclusivity clause in its lease – which its attorney had drafted – with a mall in Shrewsbury, Mass. In this clause the landlord agreed not to lease to another “restaurant reasonably expected to have annual sales of sandwiches greater than ten percent (10 percent) of its total sales.” The lease did not define sandwiches, nor was the definition thereof part of the negotiations.
Along came a Qdoba grill – with burritos, tacos and quesadillas – that the landlord wanted to land. Learning of this, Panera’s lawyers sought assurance that the new tenant would not be selling too many tacos, burritos and quesadillas. The landlord filed suit, asking the court for a declaratory judgment. Think: “Judge, tell these guys that a taco is not a sandwich!”
Citing Webster’s Third New International Dictionary of the English Language (2002), the court quoted a definition of sandwich: “two thin pieces of bread, usually buttered, with a thin layer (as of meat, cheese, or savory mixture) spread between them.” The court wrote that “Under this definition and as dictated by common sense, … the term ‘sandwich’ is not commonly understood to include burritos, tacos, and quesadillas, which are typically made with a single tortilla and stuffed with … meat, rice, and beans.”
Hmm. My 1983 Webster’s Ninth New Collegiate’s first definition is “a slice of bread covered with a filling …, which is usually covered with another slice. …” The court noted that “The parties have submitted numerous dictionary definitions for the term “sandwich,” as well as expert affidavits” and that Panera didn’t proffer “evidence that the parties intended … ‘sandwiches’ to include burritos, tacos, and quesadillas”; and that Panera, as drafter of the clause in question, had a significant burden of proof – especially given that it was seeking a preliminary injunction by way of counterclaim.
Posner’s beef is that Scalia and Garner (two big names, let’s face it) didn’t seem bothered by the trial court’s getting the definition “wrong.” He wrote, “A sandwich does not have to have two slices of bread; it can have more than two (a club sandwich) and it can have just one (an open-faced sandwich).
“… [Moreover,] a hamburger is regarded as a sandwich, [as is] a hot dog – and some people regard tacos and burritos as sandwiches, and a quesadilla is even more sandwich-like. … A dictionary-centered textualism is hopeless.”
All right, then.
“Omitting contrary evidence,” Posner wrote, is the authors’ “favorite rhetorical device.”
Posner posited that Scalia and Garner “applaud” a 2006 Massachusetts case called White City Shopping Center v. PR Restaurants, 21 Mass. L. Rptr. 565. In which it was held that the word “sandwiches” in a lease did not include tacos, burritos, and quesadillas. Why? In essence, say Scalia and Garner, because a dictionary definition cited by the trial court gives a sandwich two pieces of bread, and tacos have only one. Scalia and Garner imply that the dictionary definition controlled, claims Posner, whereas the trial court went beyond that limit.
Facts. Panera Bread had an exclusivity clause in its lease – which its attorney had drafted – with a mall in Shrewsbury, Mass. In this clause the landlord agreed not to lease to another “restaurant reasonably expected to have annual sales of sandwiches greater than ten percent (10 percent) of its total sales.” The lease did not define sandwiches, nor was the definition thereof part of the negotiations.
Along came a Qdoba grill – with burritos, tacos and quesadillas – that the landlord wanted to land. Learning of this, Panera’s lawyers sought assurance that the new tenant would not be selling too many tacos, burritos and quesadillas. The landlord filed suit, asking the court for a declaratory judgment. Think: “Judge, tell these guys that a taco is not a sandwich!”
Citing Webster’s Third New International Dictionary of the English Language (2002), the court quoted a definition of sandwich: “two thin pieces of bread, usually buttered, with a thin layer (as of meat, cheese, or savory mixture) spread between them.” The court wrote that “Under this definition and as dictated by common sense, … the term ‘sandwich’ is not commonly understood to include burritos, tacos, and quesadillas, which are typically made with a single tortilla and stuffed with … meat, rice, and beans.”
Hmm. My 1983 Webster’s Ninth New Collegiate’s first definition is “a slice of bread covered with a filling …, which is usually covered with another slice. …” The court noted that “The parties have submitted numerous dictionary definitions for the term “sandwich,” as well as expert affidavits” and that Panera didn’t proffer “evidence that the parties intended … ‘sandwiches’ to include burritos, tacos, and quesadillas”; and that Panera, as drafter of the clause in question, had a significant burden of proof – especially given that it was seeking a preliminary injunction by way of counterclaim.
Posner’s beef is that Scalia and Garner (two big names, let’s face it) didn’t seem bothered by the trial court’s getting the definition “wrong.” He wrote, “A sandwich does not have to have two slices of bread; it can have more than two (a club sandwich) and it can have just one (an open-faced sandwich).
“… [Moreover,] a hamburger is regarded as a sandwich, [as is] a hot dog – and some people regard tacos and burritos as sandwiches, and a quesadilla is even more sandwich-like. … A dictionary-centered textualism is hopeless.”
All right, then.
Another side to the legal "debate" see https://www.legalwritingpro.com/articles/reading-law-reading-think-posner-v-scalia/ .
--------------------
Other relevant questions:
1. If you buy two open-faced roast beef, um, breadbeefgravys, have you bought a sandwich?
2. What is Chicken? (https://casetext.com/case/frigaliment-importing-co-v-bns-intl-sales#p117)
3. Is a tomato a fruit or a vegetable? (https://casetext.com/case/nix-v-hedden#p306)
4. What is insect repellent? (https://casetext.com/case/avon-products-inc-v-sc-johnson-son-inc#p770)
5. Is an airplane a motor vehicle? (https://casetext.com/case/mcboyle-v-united-states#p27)
6. What is bingo? (https://casetext.com/case/us-v-103-electronic-gambling-devices#p1093)
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Last edited:
vapeanderson
Well-Known Member
Tranquility
Well-Known Member
Madri-Gal
Child Of The Revolution
I can't imagine it's confused for soup. Why would it be?
Vapor_Eyes
taste buds
Well it’s not exactly a soup soup.