"Addicted" because you vape every day?

[ejackyou]

So I take it the word 'Addicted' rings fear in Your heart too.
For a bunch of well medicated and laid back individuals,
You sure are touchy! LoL!
Your comparison of Food is a Prime example of Addiction.
Just take a cruise around your local Walmart and see
the result of 'abuse'.
Many are Addicted.
I don't know what a 'physical addiction' is?
Or perhaps it's Their metabolism?
Not to be judgmental or opinionated.

 

[looney2nz]

So I take it the word 'Addicted' rings fear in Your heart too.
For a bunch of well medicated and laid back individuals,
You sure are touchy! LoL!
Your comparison of Food is a Prime example of Addiction.
Just take a cruise around your local Walmart and see
the result of 'abuse'.
Many are Addicted.
I don't know what a 'physical addiction' is?
Or perhaps it's Their metabolism?
Not to be judgmental or opinionated.

no, addiction doesn't ring fear into my heart as I'm just not wired for it.
I've never been drunk, never smoke cigarettes, and most opiates on the planet do nothing to me (except a few via IV in the ICU). Hah, oh and almost all stimulants put me to sleep!

I DO worry for my friends who have been TRULY addicted to some difficult substances, but thankfully most of them have achieved multiple decades of sobriety.

I won't give my dollars to the Walton family thank you

But, I get where you're going. We're headed for a Wall-E world indeed...
but you see families that ate that corporate foodstuff crap start eating fresh organic
food, and big changes occur.
That said, a strong case can be made for the corporate foodstuff manufacturers having adulterated their products increasing their addictive properties... look how many decades they got out of a BS denial that sugar was BAD (just like Exxon-Mobil and Climate Change, squelched for decades).
Their metabolism is being messed with by the processed foods (hormones, antibiotics, flavor enhancers)
Not to mention the RoundUp poison now widely present in the food supply.
All of which makes change that much more difficult for the addicted.
And of course then there's the emotional component... are they eating addictively in response to a trauma?

Physical addiction is most prominent among alcohol, opiate and stimulant users, and the dopamine-reward system is front and center for all three. See someone in physical withdrawals (hopefully safe ones, I've seen people seize), you'll have a real clear idea what physical addiction is about.

'nite/morning all now, where'd I put that live resin sauce...

 

[Krazy]

... ketamine, cocaine and heroin for 3-12 months each with people that seemed truly addicted to me. I mimicked their usage patterns in an effort to keep up/down with them and would go on binges just like what I would refer to as full on abusive addicts. With each one I was able to come to a point where I realized the disastrous path of abusing such drug was not what I wanted for my future even though I wanted more in the moment. I was lucky enough to be able to stop all 3 cold turkey without ever feeling any sort of dependence or withdrawal symptoms...

My imaginary evil twin sister is much the same except for immunity to withdrawal when engaging in ultra heavy Opiate consumption. Free, pure, and unlimited is a beast, lol. Even with that she stopped on her own repeatedly when necessary and without changing environments.

I'm old and old school as well. Back in the day addiction/addict was a more specific term and hard core. Under modern usage anything and everything can be an addiction, not just a dopamine enforced habit.

 

[invertedisdead]

So I take it the word 'Addicted' rings fear in Your heart too.
For a bunch of well medicated and laid back individuals,
You sure are touchy! LoL!
Your comparison of Food is a Prime example of Addiction.
Just take a cruise around your local Walmart and see
the result of 'abuse'.
Many are Addicted.
I don't know what a 'physical addiction' is?
Or perhaps it's Their metabolism?
Not to be judgmental or opinionated.

You seem awfully embarrassed of your cannabis usage, I'm surprised you can get past the guilt to even toke up.

 

[arb]

I guess You consider Me confrontational, just because My Opinion differs from the Majority?
Like I said, I'm probably in the minority because that's the way They want it on This site.
If your opinion goes against the grain, Your Out! Sooner or later?
The staffers who Police this site are obviously chosen because their opinions are aligned
with The doctrine.
By the way, I wasn't the one who brought up the Subject of Addiction, (starting this thread).
I just stated My Opinion.
i never defined the Label, or stated My Own circumstances.
If people can't keep an open mind, maybe they should just withhold their dogmatic contributions?

 

[analytika]

I'm addicted to coffee. I can't get out of bed without it. I've been known to borrow from friends to pay for it. I sneak out of meetings, coffee seeking. I spend time grinding beans myself, salivating with anticipation. I'm obsessed with different ways to prepare it, plead guilty to BAS ("brewer acquisition syndrome"). Some doctors tell me it's bad for my health, others say it's good. I'm judged and even ostracised by people that call themselves "tea drinkers". I drive under the influence. I sometimes get my daily water requirements from coffee. I've been known to hide my consumption by mixing coffee into alcoholic beverages.

 

[Madri-Gal]

Back in the day, before I knew what the actual problem was, I was at a pain management clinic. My migraines were so bad, and so persistent, that they tried everything from Vicodin to fentanyl to help my headaches. The doctor was kind, and his comment was that I would become dependent physically , and there would be a weaning process when it was time to quit, but addiction was different in that it involved a set of behaviors including using on a different schedule than prescribed, using a higher dose than prescribed, lying about usage, lying to get more meds than prescribed, buying and selling on the black market, etc. I wasn't too worried, as I had to take migraine preventative every day, and couldn't suddenly quit those without medical supervision, either.
Happily, I didn't become addicted. Unhappily, my headaches persisted.
I would be far more unhappy to get rid of cannabis than I ever was about stopping opiates, but then, cannabis helps my symptoms. Am I addicted to cannabis? No, but some kind person might come along here and explain by their definition, I am.
Now caffeine, that's a problem. I would be very unhappy, and possibly distressed, if I couldn't have my morning coffee. Still, I think it's in the realm of dependence more than addiction. I do give up coffee regularly, and will again, but with as little as I drink, it's still more difficult than giving up weed, or opiates, for that matter. Still, it isn't likely to ruin my life to enjoy a cup of coffee every morning.
So far, there hasn't been a negative to consuming cannabis. It seems like addiction would have negatives.

@analytika, you are an aficiado and a connoissuer. Props to you Sir, on your excellent taste and refinement.

 

[fernand]

I guess You consider Me confrontational, just because My Opinion differs from the Majority?
Like I said, I'm probably in the minority because that's the way They want it on This site.
If your opinion goes against the grain, Your Out! Sooner or later?
The staffers who Police this site are obviously chosen because their opinions are aligned
with The doctrine.
By the way, I wasn't the one who brought up the Subject of Addiction, (starting this thread).
I just stated My Opinion.
i never defined the Label, or stated My Own circumstances.
If people can't keep an open mind, maybe they should just withhold their dogmatic contributions?

Can you please succinctly state your opinion and how it differs from The Doctrine?

Am I correct in understanding that you believe regular cannabis users are "addicts",
while the Majority here does not think so? If that's the entire content of your position,
namely that you like this antiquated label, fine, and I'm not sure what the issue is.
Peace. If there is something more to this, can you please clarify?

 

[grampa_herb]

 

[howie105]

Glad to see you are giving this issue all the consideration it deserves.

 

[fernand]

probably should have pulled that through some cotton ...

 

[arb]

probably should have pulled that through some cotton ...

 

[leveltree]

TL;DR
Definitions are intent dependent.
In my opinion, the brain gets too much adapted from daily use so that you get a psychological addiction.

Edit: have a great Christmas time and do something with people that matter!


I see that there is much misunderstanding from the non-defined word addiction in this thread.
Indeed every entity seriously judging about it has its own nailed down definition.
For example the psychological or the state-statistics etc.

I think it's important to clarify the wordings a bit more. Since everyone is having their own idea of what addiction is, I will start with mine which developed when thinking about Cannabis usage and the difference to dependence.

Dependence is pretty clear, you have to have it to function properly. This is true for nutritions and air biologically. However, dependence on other things like dope or caffeine should not be seen as the same since it's not really necessary but trained.
Still, this can be without much harm to anyone like caffeine as a widespread example.

So what's addiction then?
If you not only need a thing permanently in your life but life starts to circle around that thing, resulting in actions normally not even considered (like lying/stealing) to get IT, this would be an addiction in my opinion.

This is why the psychological definition needs multiple (life disturbing) symptoms to come together, such as loss of self control, increasing tolerance, usage despite negative consequences etc.

So to answer the thread's question:
It can be. Maybe you are a medical user depending on it for a good life, maybe you have a psychological addiction that keeps you doing it even though it's not the best thing to do. I think most people who use it daily develop a psychological addiction naturally (dopamine system is disturbed), some might be resistant and medicals should do it regardless.

I assume the thread starter wanted to get an answer in regard to the "average forum members definition". So that's my opinion as part of that.

Sorry for the giant post.

Stay aware.

 

[fernand]

The funny thing is you can "circle around that thing" without even using it.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

For this thread to get anywhere we need a uniform definition of "addicted"

Psychology Today uses this one:
"Addiction is a condition in which a person engages in the use of a substance or in a behavior for which the rewarding effects provide a compelling incentive to repeatedly pursue the behavior despite detrimental consequences."

Note the use of the phrase "despite detrimental consequences".

Yes, Cannabis use can have negative consequences. If one experiences negative consequences, and continues to use a substance or engage in an activity for the purposes of pleasure, they are likely addicted.

How serious the addiction is, which could be more important than whether it exists, is dependent on the individual case.

We also need two more things to happen for this thread to make useful progress:

1. People need to stop trying to equate Cannabis use with eating food and drinking water. They are not at all the same. Food and water are necessary for survival, while Cannabis use is not (barring extreme anecdotal cases).

2. People need to stop bashing modern medicine, including psychology and psychiatry. Modern medicine has saved/improved millions of lives. You can support natural medicine without ignoring the facts. Is it perfect? No, but it's at least constantly improving. That's how science works.

 

[Trypsy Summers]

For this thread to get anywhere we need a uniform definition of "addicted" "blah blah blah blah blah blah blah"
We also need two more things to happen for this thread to make useful progress:

1. People need to stop trying to equate Cannabis use with eating food and drinking water. They are not at all the same. Food and water are necessary for survival, while Cannabis use is not (barring extreme anecdotal cases).

2. People need to stop bashing modern medicine, including psychology and psychiatry. Modern medicine has saved/improved millions of lives. You can support natural medicine without ignoring the facts. Is it perfect? No, but it's at least constantly improving. That's how science works.

My Friend;
In the first instance I will be the first to say that; 'you're indeed entitled to your opinion regarding cannabis and its comparison to eating food and drinking water'. However, I'm sure there are many who do not agree with you assertion, as there are many that find Cannabis to be as much 'spiritual food', as it is 'potent' physical medicine and in today's world, it is found by many to be vital for survival....

As for modern medicine! Well I guess its each to their own! I have noted that modern medicine has killed more people than it actually saves, So yep, I'm a 'heretical' basher of modern medicine!

Tho here's the thing, its rather difficult to have an accurate picture of the efficacy of natural medicine, based upon the evidence provided by Big Pharma, cos its benefits are usually suppressed by? (Yes, you guessed it), 'Big Phama!' and the suppression 'of the benefits' usually persists until such time that it becomes totally unfeasible to continue to deny the positive benefits, such as is the case with Cannabis....

So yes! I'm bashing modern medicine (as you put it) and yep, I'm also guilty, as I'm one of those who (you assert) readily equates Cannabis with food and water, as I'm also of the view the three of em' are that important - in my world!

not saying, just saying, without saying,

Pure Peace

 

[ejackyou]

TL;DR
Definitions are intent dependent.
In my opinion, the brain gets too much adapted from daily use so that you get a psychological addiction.

Edit: have a great Christmas time and do something with people that matter!


I see that there is much misunderstanding from the non-defined word addiction in this thread.
Indeed every entity seriously judging about it has its own nailed down definition.
For example the psychological or the state-statistics etc.

I think it's important to clarify the wordings a bit more. Since everyone is having their own idea of what addiction is, I will start with mine which developed when thinking about Cannabis usage and the difference to dependence.

Dependence is pretty clear, you have to have it to function properly. This is true for nutritions and air biologically. However, dependence on other things like dope or caffeine should not be seen as the same since it's not really necessary but trained.
Still, this can be without much harm to anyone like caffeine as a widespread example.

So what's addiction then?
If you not only need a thing permanently in your life but life starts to circle around that thing, resulting in actions normally not even considered (like lying/stealing) to get IT, this would be an addiction in my opinion.

This is why the psychological definition needs multiple (life disturbing) symptoms to come together, such as loss of self control, increasing tolerance, usage despite negative consequences etc.

So to answer the thread's question:
It can be. Maybe you are a medical user depending on it for a good life, maybe you have a psychological addiction that keeps you doing it even though it's not the best thing to do. I think most people who use it daily develop a psychological addiction naturally (dopamine system is disturbed), some might be resistant and medicals should do it regardless.

I assume the thread starter wanted to get an answer in regard to the "average forum members definition". So that's my opinion as part of that.

Sorry for the giant post.

Stay aware.

THANKS! For a little Clairification.
Words can sure scare people, perhaps the ones who feel Guilty.
Addiction and Dependence whatever the definitions, are intertwined?
You can call Me a Cannabis Addict, or Marijuana Dependent,
or whatever, doesn't bother Me, I'm totally enjoying it on a Daily basis and
I plan on continuing for the forseeable future.
Wish I'd started Much earlier!

 

[EverythingsHazy]

My Friend;
In the first instance I will be the first to say that; 'you're indeed entitled to your opinion regarding cannabis and its comparison to eating food and drinking water'. However, I'm sure there are many who do not agree with you assertion, as there are many that find Cannabis to be as much 'spiritual food', as it is 'potent' physical medicine and in today's world, it is found by many to be vital for survival....

As for modern medicine! Well I guess its each to their own! I have noted that modern medicine has killed more people than it actually saves, So yep, I'm a 'heretical' basher of modern medicine!

Tho here's the thing, its rather difficult to have an accurate picture of the efficacy of natural medicine, based upon the evidence provided by Big Pharma, cos its benefits are usually suppressed by? (Yes, you guessed it), 'Big Phama!' and the suppression 'of the benefits' usually persists until such time that it becomes totally unfeasible to continue to deny the positive benefits, such as is the case with Cannabis....

So yes! I'm bashing modern medicine (as you put it) and yep, I'm also guilty, as I'm one of those who (you assert) readily equates Cannabis with food and water, as I'm also of the view the three of em' are that important - in my world!

not saying, just saying, without saying,

Pure Peace

It’s not my opinion. Facts aren’t opinion based.

Cannabis use is not necessary for a healthy human to survive, while food and water are. It may be beneficial, but it is not necessary.

Never using Cannabis won’t kill you. Never eating food or not drinking water, will kill you pretty quickly, and with no exceptions.

If you really think that modern medicine and science do more harm than good, why is it that our life expectancies have been extended by decades over the past few centuries?

Why is it that people in places without access to modern medical treatments and facilities often die young and from treatable issues?

Do you not ever visit medical professionals when you have a disease or other medical issue?

Do you pull your own teeth and avoid numbing agents?

If you get a bacterial infection, do you turn down antibiotics and risk death?

Science is not perfect, but it’s very nature ensures that it is self-correcting and constantly progressing. Natural remedies can be supported now or refuted with scientific experimentation, but many times, they aren’t based in anything more than pseudoscience.

 

[fernand]

Not everyone here is idolizing everything that is "natural", or bashing modern medicine. That's a different demographic split.

It’s not my opinion. Facts aren’t opinion based.
Cannabis use is not necessary for a healthy human to survive ...

Facts? Come now. To someone whose baseline is unbearable anxiety and suicidal thoughts, I'd say that feeling normal, non-suicidal, ranks as a survival necessity. If you're feeling OK, and you consider yourself healthy, that's wonderful. But please don't call your analysis "facts". There are a lot of people for whom cannabis is a lifeline. Modern medicine is discovering this as we speak, and it's not so clear who is healthy.

This makes the daily use by, actually, a fair number of people, more of an act of repair than an "addiction".

 

[biohacker]

It’s not my opinion. Facts aren’t opinion based.

Are these the same "facts" that frequently get "updated"? You know that university textbooks have been rewritten several times due to incorrect "facts" right? Unfortunately, the real "facts" are known decades before they get "updated". In FACT, I think you could say that many facts HAVE been opinion based, regardless of the "science" used to come up with the conclusion (often times done before the study even starts)...just follow the money.

Never using Cannabis won’t kill you. Never eating food or not drinking water, will kill you pretty quickly, and with no exceptions.

Oh there are a few exceptions dude... you can go a VERY long time without food, and even water believe it or not. Check out Breatharianism! Food is simply energy/light/information... and apparently the mitochondria can even make its own water! Oh wait, this disproves previous "facts"!

If you really think that modern medicine and science do more harm than good, why is it that our life expectancies have been extended by decades over the past few centuries?

Hmmmm, how about not defecating in the same water that we drink? Increased sanitation, clean water... it's not vaccines and modern medicine that has made the biggest impact. Dig deeper... even in hunter gatherer times our life expectancies were much higher than the common belief of mid-30's once you took out traumatic deaths. And for the first time in history, life expectancy has stopped increasing, and they are saying that children will not be living as long as their parents. We are the fattest population ever to grace the presence of this planet.... hospitals are bursting.

Why is it that people in places without access to modern medical treatments and facilities often die young and from treatable issues?

There is a time and place, especially for first aid and emergency medicine.

Do you not ever visit medical professionals when you have a disease or other medical issue?

Not if you want a chance! I am my own medical advocate, and I suggest everyone do their OWN research like their life depends on it, because it does. The incompetence in the medical system especially in north america is astounding.

Like WHAT!?

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

Science is not perfect, but it’s very nature ensures that it is self-correcting and constantly progressing. Natural remedies can be supported now or refuted with scientific experimentation, but many times, they aren’t based in anything more than pseudoscience.

Just like science.

 

[Tranquility]

Oh there are a few exceptions dude... you can go a VERY long time without food, and even water believe it or not. Check out Breatharianism! Food is simply energy/light/information... and apparently the mitochondria can even make its own water! Oh wait, this disproves previous "facts"!

The "fact" of the rule of threes have been around for a very long time. No science really involved, just numerous observations over what happens. Generally, you can go 3 minutes without oxygen, 3 hours without shelter in a hostile environment (other than ice water), 3 days without water (if you have shelter in harsh environment), and three weeks without food (If you have shelter and water in a harsh environment).

Any theory of mitochondria making water is not going to change the fact one needs to get water from the outside to the inside or one will die in about three days.

While I agree we have to be our own doctors and one should never just trust in medical professionals without checking one's own understanding, the medical errors schema of doom that has come out seems more political than useful. Say we have the definition of a death due to medical error as:

Makary defines a death due to medical error as one that is caused by inadequately skilled staff, error in judgment or care, a system defect or a preventable adverse effect. This includes computer breakdowns, mix-ups with the doses or types of medications administered to patients and surgical complications that go undiagnosed.
​

If we have a person who is prescribed opiates for medically necessary reasons and the person overdoses, is that a death caused by medical error? Does it matter if the patient does not have the capacity to read and follow directions and that fact is obvious? What if they were depressed and that was not obvious? What if there were a test that could be done for a dollar that would indicate if the patient was at risk, but the test wasn't done? What if the test cost thousands of dollars to only protect .oo1% of those taking opiates?

When we see studies like the one linked, it is easy for a casual reader to think the article is talking about a doctor cutting the wrong thing off or giving a bad dose that kills a patient. That's not the issue. The issue gets to what can possibly get done and might be considered more economic. How many tests, how much money must be spent to insure the unique person being treated is being treated as uniquely as required for best result? One person may need a doctor say you need to lose a few pounds and start exercising or you will need insulin someday while another needs a personal trainer, chef, and motivational coach to get the same result. Under the definition, failure to provide those things (or anything else we can imagine) that eventually caused the diabetes and death and would be a medical error. (While knowing I should put "caused" in air quotes.)

 

[arb]

Are these the same "facts" that frequently get "updated"? You know that university textbooks have been rewritten several times due to incorrect "facts" right? Unfortunately, the real "facts" are known decades before they get "updated". In FACT, I think you could say that many facts HAVE been opinion based, regardless of the "science" used to come up with the conclusion (often times done before the study even starts)...just follow the money.



Oh there are a few exceptions dude... you can go a VERY long time without food, and even water believe it or not. Check out Breatharianism! Food is simply energy/light/information... and apparently the mitochondria can even make its own water! Oh wait, this disproves previous "facts"!



Hmmmm, how about not defecating in the same water that we drink? Increased sanitation, clean water... it's not vaccines and modern medicine that has made the biggest impact. Dig deeper... even in hunter gatherer times our life expectancies were much higher than the common belief of mid-30's once you took out traumatic deaths. And for the first time in history, life expectancy has stopped increasing, and they are saying that children will not be living as long as their parents. We are the fattest population ever to grace the presence of this planet.... hospitals are bursting.



There is a time and place, especially for first aid and emergency medicine.



Not if you want a chance! I am my own medical advocate, and I suggest everyone do their OWN research like their life depends on it, because it does. The incompetence in the medical system especially in north america is astounding.

Like WHAT!?

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html



Just like science.

Are you being serious or is this sarcasm?...........I really hope it was sarcasm.

 

[ejackyou]

Getting back to the subject,
I think the answer to this thread, is, YES!
Whatever the excuse.

 

[fernand]

Getting back to the subject, I think the answer to this thread, is, YES!
Whatever the excuse.

Good deal. Wunderbar. QED.
Give the boy with the monster truck a cigar!
Oh, no, wait. That's addicting.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

Are these the same "facts" that frequently get "updated"? You know that university textbooks have been rewritten several times due to incorrect "facts" right? Unfortunately, the real "facts" are known decades before they get "updated". In FACT, I think you could say that many facts HAVE been opinion based, regardless of the "science" used to come up with the conclusion (often times done before the study even starts)...just follow the money.

The facts don't change. They are just brought to light and better understood through the scientific method.

Oh there are a few exceptions dude... you can go a VERY long time without food, and even water believe it or not. Check out Breatharianism! Food is simply energy/light/information... and apparently the mitochondria can even make its own water! Oh wait, this disproves previous "facts"!

You can live for while without food, if you have adequate fat stores, but that time will be limited, and you will eventually die. Without water, you will die in a a matter of days. Nothing you said here disproves anything.

Hmmmm, how about not defecating in the same water that we drink? Increased sanitation, clean water... it's not vaccines and modern medicine that has made the biggest impact. Dig deeper... even in hunter gatherer times our life expectancies were much higher than the common belief of mid-30's once you took out traumatic deaths. And for the first time in history, life expectancy has stopped increasing, and they are saying that children will not be living as long as their parents. We are the fattest population ever to grace the presence of this planet.... hospitals are bursting.

Those thing helped, too. That does not at all take away from the efficacy of modern medicine. Vaccines and antibiotics have helped save millions of lives from being lost due to preventable infections. We've virtually eradicated many life threatening illnesses (which are unfortunately coming back due to the anti-vaccine crowd). Medical procedures have made it possible for people with heart problems to live far longer than they would've even 50-100 years ago.

Life expectancy hasn't stopped increasing due to people embracing science and modern medicine. It has stopped increasing because of a multitude of factors, many of which have to do with lifestyle and diet changes. You even admitted that we are a fat generation. That's hardly the fault of modern medicine.

There is a time and place, especially for first aid and emergency medicine.

There is only a time and place if it's effective. Something that doesn't work, won't magically start to work during an emergency.

Not if you want a chance! I am my own medical advocate, and I suggest everyone do their OWN research like their life depends on it, because it does. The incompetence in the medical system especially in north america is astounding.

Like WHAT!?

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html



Just like science.

Good luck with that. I prefer to not play Russian roulette with my life and infectious diseases.

Also, don't misrepresent statistics. If everyone who dies of "medical complications/errors" stayed home and tried to treat their issues by themselves, many of them would die anyway from the issue they went in to get fixed. It is misleading to pretend that modern medicine has killed that amount of perfectly healthy people.