510 Halo-mesh

[blokenoname]

Would make it 1,92 ohm, at 75W.
https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/power-calculator.html

But when the mod even complains at resistances well within its specs, there must something else up with it, that causes this overheating problem then.

THX for the link

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

Well i get a little bit more than minute running time with 50w12v at 20w before chip hits 70 C . It is enough to get a few hits,overheating is less than with 35w so higher wattage might be the key.

 

[blokenoname]

Low resistance, high wattage heaters is what these things are made for. Therefor I wane try myself on a mesh heater.

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

Low resistance, high wattage heaters is what these things are made for. Therefor I wane try myself on a mesh heater.

The OKR CHIP is not made for E-cigs,it is minituarized buck boost , it doesnt have a OHM limit like the others. It is listed from 0.05 to infinity.. I dont know if that is true though..
Anyway it should work well with 12v 50w from what i read .No wonder it is used in the Iheat and the Zion.
It would be a little obstacle to attach a potentiometer to it ft least for me,but i will try to get it working some day when i get my hands on one. There are pretty awesome buildguides for mods boxes with it.

 

[blokenoname]

@Abysmal Vapor

Ok… a mate borrowed me his Wimsec rx200 mod, with the TURBO firmware flash including cruise mode already applied. After first test runs, I can verify that I run into the exact same issue here re an overheating board with my high resistance heaters (>70°C), as you do.

Tested with two of the 12V/40W/3,66ohm cartridges set into a Kanger and a Velocity/clone (?) base. Both got registered by the rx200 at about 3,48-3,55ohm at first and the mod gave up on both after about 50 secs to a minute of firing the mod in power mode with cruise mode applied, showing the ‘device too hot/>70°C’ message. Hot resistance also got uo to 3,6-3,7ohm and after that, both heaters were no longer accepted by the mod, giving the ‘no atomizer’ message, presumably, because dropping out of specs now. Both heaters work still fine with the iStick100, registering both at about 3,6ohm. The Wimsec also still working fine, when screwing on me Kanger Top Tank Mini with a standard 1,5ohm coil.

Seems, as if at least the Wimsec rx series is just bad at handling high resistances, as I also found a post from some guy running into the exact same problems, using a standard 2,5ohm coil, though he was running his mod only at 3-6W and so the overheating materialised not within a minute, but only after an hour of chain vaping at these low wattages.

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/threads/overheating-rx200.732713/

Why this is, is not yet clear, as we’re talking maybe 2 amps max here, the board has to cope with and the standard low- and sub-ohm coils run a much higher current with the mod not crapping out. Insufficient insulation/ventilation/heat disposal of the board might be one thing that plays into it and then of course, no e-ciggie user needs firing a given mod for a minute straight anyway, but then, why is the guy with the 2,5ohm coils running into the same problem, while folks running sub-ohm don’t see them happening?

For comparison: the board of the iStick100 registers at a mere 28°C after two sessions, first one including about 50 secs (five 10 sec cycles) of heat-up at about 25W and maybe another minute, for finishing the stem; second one was about 30 secs heat-up and another minute, to kill the load.

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

@blokenoname Thx for info. Generally TC is limited to lower ohm range than the VW modes. VW as you cleared is a buck boost mod and doesnt require a lot of processing to achieve while TC include lots of calculations which brings more workload to the chip.
Have you tried a session with halogen bulb on the istick 100 ? I cannot imagine myself pulsing every 5 seconds for minutes ,just not my style , i have yet to look for a mod that can run Arctic fox or FJ software that can offer 5 ohm upper limit.

 

[blokenoname]

@Abysmal Vapor

Well, as I understand it so far (and also might be wrong there, as I haven't delved too far into the TC thingie myself yet, never having used or needed a TC mod myself here- Hah... not even going for sub-ohm myself, as I'm totally happy with a 1,5 ohm coil at about 11W), seems, not much calculation actually involved (neither in amount nor complexity) even in the more elaborate methods of TC. It's rather more like storing 'value x' (i.e. given initial resistance of a coil) and 'value y' (desired temp or wattage output) and then comparing 'x' against another 'value z', i.e. the actual resistance of the coil at hand at a given frequency (or probably not at all, when switching to VW mode) and when registering significant deviations from stored value 'x', simply auto-adjusting output voltage to comply to desired temp/wattage output 'y' again, at the now slightly changed actual resistance of and current drawn by the coil 'z'. As long as desired wattage output remains stable, corresponding output temps will be stable. Whole TC thingie makes no sense with resistances above an ohm or so, as there minuscule resistance changes in the decimal places won't do much harm to stable temp/wattage output anyway, as those are then also registering in the decimals or a Watt or two only there. Running a 1,5 ohm coil at 10, 11 or 12W, doesn't make much differences in vaping experience to begin with there. Do that with a 0,2 ohm coil, and the change of a first or even second decimal in resistance causes fluctuations from tens to a hundred Watts there

That said, I'd also think, that the overall bigger software overhead of the more recent high tech mods with all the extra options, menus, settings, display outputs and whatnot puts much more workload on a given chip in general. Another possible culprit is conduction of course. The base with the heater gets quite hot when it reaches the about 200+°C, we aim for here and noticing the rx200's surface temps rising much faster here, than the iStick's after the same time of use. Even after the initial 50-60 secs heat-up cycle, the rx200 body is noticeable warmer to the touch, than the iStick and at least part of that heat seems just conduction from the base sitting on top. Quick comparison showing the aluminum casing of the rx200 being made from thinner aluminum (i.e. conducting heat faster) then the aluminum body of the iStick and then the stick has also a thick top and a bottom cap, that look more like stainless, than polished aluminum (have to look that up or unscrew one of the caps for getting an impression of its weight), with stainless about 7-8 (?) times less conductive, than aluminum.

Had no reason to try a bulb, but also see no reason for it not working. Can try for you on the iStick, but it certainly doesn't care, if a given load makes heat & light or just heat, as long as its within specs. The pulsing is less of a problem, than i initially thought with the annoying part being mostly just the initial heat up, as you have to run it through 5 ten sec cycles for that. Once vaping temp is established, it retains heat long enough for another draw or two without constantly applying voltage, so that you just need to fire for some secs, when need be. And as killing a load in mine doesn't take longer as in a log, whole drama is over after a minute max anyway

Edit: What I can do, is go looking for the single 50W bulb, that should be somewhere in my box with heaters, fasten it to a base and test it with the rx200 rather (not the iStick) and see, if I can cut a teflon washer thin enough to place it onto the 510 connector and not hindering contact, and then see, if that can take care of conduction heat... if my theory is correct there to begin with, that is

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

I was just stating the differences between the both modes in terms of ohm range. I wasnt proposing on using TC mode with the Halobulb.. Anyway what i am looking for is a mod that can suwith at least longer fire duration capabilities ,if not the TUBO software or Artic Fox.

 

[blokenoname]

Ja. And I wasn't assuming, that you were proposing either
Sorry, when it came across that way, mate!

Just reading and thinking a lot about all the more elaborated box mod stuff at the moment, as up until recently, these were just 'black boxes' for me, I never wasted a second thought about, as long as they did their job. That's why I also said, that I might be wrong anyway re my understanding of TC mode right at the beginning, hoping rather to get further confirmation and/or have faults pointed out to me. Just me way of learning, not wanne play the 'know it all' here
So you mentioning TC mode for low/sub-ohm only/higher ohm using VW instead, made me look into the whys here, is all.

Because... when you look at it, it's maybe also an option, maybe even a better one than hunting for the right mod... to build a simple regulated box mod yourself, that adheres to your (or my) specific needs.

The other thought is, that it seems quite unbelivable, that in all those years box mods are on the marked now, no one came up with a hack for the goddamned safty timer! Is this even part of the conventional soft/firmware, or is the safty switch even at a deeper, more basic/chip firmware level, programmers then just tab into? What's with the whole battery safty feature anyway? Different chip altogether, from the buck/boost or MOSFET thingies in there? Still have to find so much more info sbout all this, as you see.

 

[KeroZen]

Did you guys try using 510 heatsinks and/or insulation gaskets?

 

[blokenoname]

Oh.. this guy here just found out such things do indeed already exist readymade, while looking for a female 510 connector, for setting into my base unit for the portable

 

[blokenoname]

@Abysmal Vapor

So... tested the 35W and the 50W bulb on the iStick. Working as expected and I had me a couple of minutes of 10 sec cycles stroboscope show

Board reading about 30°C after maybe 4 min. Having the bulbs register at about 0,5ohm on the iStick, throw me off for a moment though, as you can't see live hot resistance on its display, switching over to the bloody safety cut-off timer, when you press the button, only switching back, when you release it. And then resistance drops so fast, that you can barely notice

But, that's how it goes re cold and hot resistance with the tungsten filament in the bulbs, as it seems. At least its clear now, why the rx200 accepts a 4ohm bulb, but rejects my 3,6V cartridge as 'no atomizer', their cold resistances being 0,5ohm and 3,6 ohm respectively

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

Well.. I managed to get 5+ minutes runtime in cruise with the 90w bulb more than enough for good session
. Can you explain why iStick registers the bulbs at 0.5 ohm ,that is not really true ?
Edited ( Nevermind explaining that is the cold resistance . )
Do you get overheating with the RX200 and the 35w/50w halogen bulbs ? After operation the coil is not longer cold, do you get your resistance locked 0.5 cold from the settings ?
Resistance: R =4.11428571
Current: I =2.91666667
Voltage: V =12
Power: P = 35
Btw i noticed that pulsing doesnt causes such overheating to the chip as cruise mod does even with the 35/50w. I can cruise for one minute as preheat mode and wait for the chip to cool down to 60C and take it pulsing from there ).
Btw i am playing with various mesh sleeves and folding manner makes a big difference. I managed to make light barely visible even at full wattage.
With 12/50w which has 2.88 ohm
Also forgot to add that i found a mod that can take up to 7 ohms resistance it is called the snowwolf and can run arctic fox ,but even stock firmware has 20 seconds cut off which is much better than 5,but output voltage is as not great.

Sigelei Snow Wolf TC 200W Mod comes with

• 1× Sigelei Snow Wolf TC 200W Mod
• 1× Silicon rubber cover
• 2× Manual and warrantly card
• 1× Gift Box

Features

1 . Accommodates 2 18650 sized batteries
2. Variable wattage range: 5.0 - 200 watts
3. Output voltage range: 0.5 - 7.0 volts
4. Atomizer resistance range: 0.05 - 7.0 ohm
5. Battery voltage range: 6.2 - 8.4 volts
6. Temperature control range: 100 – 350
7. Supports both Kanthal and nickel wires
8. Resistive Load Detection ( Ohms meter ).
9. ON/OFF battery switch.
10. Visual Opening System.
11. OLED Battery Power Display.
12. Reverse Battery protwction.
13. Floating 510 pin

 

[blokenoname]

About 0,5 ohm cold is true, actually. Turns out, differences from cold to hot resistance are huge for the filaments within light bulbs and can go into hundreds of ohms when running from mains, for instance. Confused the shit out of me too, and I had to look it up first at some tech boards.
And the filament itself cools down as rapidly, as it heats up. What's still hot, is the glass

https://www.electronicspoint.com/threads/resistence-of-linear-halogen-bulb-when-cold.189935/

So I guess, TC mode would be a very bad idea here, when using bulbs

The rx200 and yours too show that on their display. Cold: ~o,5 ohm... fire and hold: goes up to 3,9-4,1 ohm... (so getting what Ohm's law proclaimed)... release button... resistance will drop to about 0,5 ohm again within two secs or so.
Same on the iStick, but you can''t see it on the display, cause all the info displayed there is replaced by the 10 sec countdown when you fire. And once its display managed to switch back into info mode, resistance is already down to about 1 ohm and reaches 0,5 ohm a second later.

Sounds good with the 90W bulb.

And yes, rx200 is doing its overheating thing with the 35 and 50W bulb.

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

About 0,5 ohm cold is true, actually. Turns out, differences from cold to hot resistance are huge for the filaments within light bulbs and can go into hundreds of ohms when running from mains, for instance. Confused the shit out of me too, and I had to look it up first at some tech boards.
And the filament itself cools down as rapidly, as it heats up. What's still hot, is the glass

The rx200 and yours too show that on their display. Cold: ~o,5 ohm... fire and hold: goes up to 3,9-4,1 ohm... (so getting what Ohm's law proclaimed)... release button... resistance will drop to about 0,5 ohm again within two secs or so.
Same on the iStick, but you fan't see it on the display, cause all the info displayed there is replaced by the 10 sec countdown when you fire. And once its display managed to switch back into info mode, resistance is already down to about 1 ohm and reaches 0,5 ohm a second later.

Sounds good with the 90W bulb.

------------------------------------------------------------------"
I am starting to think that maxing the output voltage my also have to do with chip overheating.
For example .
If a mod is 7v output capable. and you are using 12v 50w has 2.88 resitance and at 7v it can deliver 17watts.
at 12v 90w resistance is almost double and it can go up to 30w without overheating the chip .
You said your istick can output 10V ? Maybe this is why it doesnt get hot ?
-----------------------------------------------------------
Hahah officially mind boggled .. So it seems that my RX300 is capable of 9.9v but since it doesnt has a variable voltage function but only VW.. in order to push max voltage , i have to set power at 130w.. It again shows that it drains only 35w, i will inspect this and see if chip will stay cooler that way..

 

[Megaton]

For what its worth @Abysmal Vapor, my rx200s can just about handle me pulsing my DCg2 to temp and then heating with every puff for a whole bowl (maybe 6 or 7 puffs? Still get an overheat occasionally though), whereas it can barely get to temp and survive the first puff in cruise mode. I guess the chip is kinda crammed in there behind the screen, and the more you ask of it the hotter it gets.

 

[blokenoname]

The given resistance of a load (and it seems, we calculating from 'hot' usually, as Ohm's law in its basic form doesn't account for changes in resistance due to temp changes) together with the voltage thrown at it, defines how much current that load draws. The product of voltage and current, is the power/wattage output. Change one, all the others change, with the given resistance being the only semi fixed point within a given circuit, if I get that right.
From this POV, if you apply 7V or 10V to an identical load resistance wise, the only thing that changes is the current the load draws at both voltages applied, and thereby wattage output, meaning 7V will draw less current and therefor give you less watts and 10V giving you more.
Ye lower the given resistance though, ye more current a given load draws, so that you can get more watts with less voltage applied. That's how you can wring hundreds of watts out of these tiny cells.

The 90W bulb (1,6 ohm)will give you about 50W of power at 9V applied (~5A). The 75W bulb (2,88 ohm) only about 30W at the same voltage (~3A). So if you know beforehand, what wattage you're aiming at, you can get that wattage with less voltage applied when using a lower resistance load for the price of higher current, though. But otherwise... hmm.

Then there is the thing, that more current passing usually also means hotter running parts... and at the same time, higher resistance also heating up things, because of the current needing 'to push' harder against the higher resistance.

Frankly, it beats me, why this happens.

Edit: Still thinking, having an eye on conduction here might be usefull. We're using heaters here, that have x-times the mass and weight of your usual standard e-ciggie coil! Means much greater heat capacity and therfor a shitload of heat transfered down along the connections. Might not be so obvious when running from a mod only a couple of minutes, but as I ran my portable from the base I made for it yesterday night for maybe 1/2 an hour on only 6V/ 8W... I nearly burned my fingers, when unscrewing the little loggie from its base and accidentally touching it! These littke bastards do get hot!

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

@blokenoname Well,things might be unclear but one thing is for sure,i will experiment the shit out of it.. For sure science helps save on the errors ,but sometimes making error prooves to be more time saving than trying to grasp the science of it.
) I have few other solutions in mind ,but i will try to make it work with the things at hand ,for now.. 90w is fine enough. I have a friend who has a few mods which i can try,to rule out that the Wismec's chips arent up to the task.

 

[blokenoname]

Have a look at my edit above. Conduction might very well play into it, with our two mods coping differently there.

I mean, not only do they have greater heat capacity, they also retain the heat much longer, than a standard coil, making it harder for the mod to cool down again after use.

Making errors also helps understanding the science better. At least for me

For what its worth @Abysmal Vapor, my rx200s can just about handle me pulsing my DCg2 to temp and then heating with every puff for a whole bowl (maybe 6 or 7 puffs? Still get an overheat occasionally though), whereas it can barely get to temp and survive the first puff in cruise mode. I guess the chip is kinda crammed in there behind the screen, and the more you ask of it the hotter it gets.

What kind of heater is this DCg2 using?

 

[Megaton]

The DCg2 uses a little ceramic cup with flat tc wire embedded in it.

 

[blokenoname]

Ha! YES!!!

This IS just Conduction!

That's 4 whole minutes now in cruise mode with the 35W bulb! We're at 60°C board temp now (and were already for a whole minute)... and looks like there are still some minutes left, as board temp remained stable between minute 3 and 4

And there is your solution: Two layers of thin, natural cork tape around the base
And as we're not sub ohming here and aiming at the fifths decimal in temp control or so, best throw out that cupper/brass (+) post/screw from the base too and replace it with a fitting stainless one, to make it a bit harder there for the heat too

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

@blokenoname Well in my case it is not conduction though ,i have ruled it out via experiments.. I had the same problem with the TUBOevic,when drawing too hard and it was pulling high wattage. I also have tried it with two 510 heatsinks.

Anyway i am too baked now to try anything more today,but tomorrow will be the day .

 

[blokenoname]

Well... then how comes it is a problem of conduction here, when using the exact same setup? And so very probably could be solved by reproducing my exact setup here!

Fuck the heatsinks! There is still a brass/cupper pin running through them and their bare metal touches that of the mod!
Try a piece of cork tape in two layers and exchange the pin. And then we can see and go from there (tomorrow or so )

I did cruise!

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

I have altered the setup so the bulb is away from the connection. Bare bulb and wires and bent it aside .
Also my pins are cold to the touch both at the heatsink and the atty base. I will try other mods tomorrow and see how is it with them . I am getting 5 minutes cruise time with 90w bulb without overheating,how do you explain that if conduction was the reason . The only thing that gets hot on the device is the CHIP,otherwise the mod is cold to the touch at any point.
Chip is located at the front of the mod and on the RX300 has nice ventilation holes.Also it being 300 grams makes it hard to get it warm.

 

[blokenoname]

I don't. I just tell you what I found and ask you to reproduce and see. If it works here, it should work for you too. That's how its usually done, to get corroboration

I ran the setup twice, with the same result, while without the cork layer, the mod overheated within one minute.

Three post base, bare bulb bent to the side, two layers of cork tape around the contact.