The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

Adobewan said:

@cybrguy I think you may be giving the people and system too much credit.
GW served two terms much to the dismay of many. Granted, there were the hanging chads, but how was the race so close as to allow the chads to be an issue and the FLA SC to step in?

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I may be, I have before. I have been accused of giving HUMANITY more credit than it deserves. I prefer that, however, to expecting the worst from people. It may be naive to think that people generally defer to their better angels but that position is not without its supporters. I don't think it makes those people stupid.

I don't think America really wants what Trump is selling. I think most Americans can easily see what that is. I get that there is a percentage of the public that doesn't care that they are being lied to in such obvious ways, but I don't think that percentage is nearly enough to get Trump elected. When he tells these ridiculous lies that are so easily debunked he looses the support of EVERYONE who cares about not being lied to, including "republicans" and independents. John Miller/Barron is only todays example.

cybrguy said:

I may be, I have before. I have been accused of giving HUMANITY more credit than it deserves. I prefer that, however, to expecting the worst from people. It may be naive to think that people generally defer to their better angels but that position is not without its supporters. I don't think it makes those people stupid.

I don't think America really wants what Trump is selling. I think most Americans can easily see what that is. I get that there is a percentage of the public that doesn't care that they are being lied to in such obvious ways, but I don't think that percentage is nearly enough to get Trump elected. When he tells these ridiculous lies that are so easily debunked he looses the support of EVERYONE who cares about not being lied to, including "republicans" and independents. John Miller/Barron is only todays example.

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You may be ignoring a mass of people that believe Fox News, hang on O'Reilly's every word, and don't think Trump is lying.

cybrguy said:

I don't think America really wants what Trump is selling.

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Apparently Sheldon Adelson does. He is willing to give up to $100 million to the trump campaign. Off topic, sorry, but this Sheldon Adelson

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/11/sheldon-adelson-florida-marijuana_n_5486172.html

As I have said before, I 'was' a Hillary supporter. I also admit that I watch some Faux News Network. I feel watching/getting news from several different organizations and getting differing view points help me to make more informed decisions. I need to get different perspectives. It helps my me from being too biased. I'm not a Democrat. I am a full on liberal. But I also don't want to spread untruths and false information. I fact check things that I feel strongly about because I want to be informed and not a shill or someone spouting things just to be contrarian. The best thing about this is that when I'm wrong, at least I've learned something.
So whether my information came from NPR, Faux, CNN,.. I came to the conclusion that I'll wear my Bernie Bros. tag and wear it with pride.

lwien said:

The scary thing is, is that I know that I am not alone. The big question is, will liberal dems like me just sit this one out in the general or will we vote for her anyway to keep Trump at bay. Will we leave her in favor of Bernie? I'm afraid that the more visible she becomes the less likely that she will win the general. I still don't think she will slide over the "LOSE" line but it is more than a bit disconcerting.

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This question is somewhat bizarre to me. You are not someone who doesn't understand how politics in America work, or someone who hasn't witnessed it for yourself. The idea that you might even consider not voting against Trump, practically no matter WHO was running against him, is a stunner to me.
As annoyed as I might be by something Hillary or her surrogates might say or do on the campaign trail, she is so many times more qualified, and so dramatically closer to my moral world than Donald Trump, voting for him would never even be a consideration for me. There aren't that many people in America who I wouldn't even consider, but Trump tops that list.

And yes, statements like yours from people like you are my greatest fear in this election, because we not only need you to vote for her, but we need you to help her win.

Adobewan said:

You may be ignoring a mass of people that believe Fox News, hang on O'Reilly's every word, and don't think Trump is lying.

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I'm not ignoring them. I just don't think there are nearly enough of them.

cybrguy said:

The idea that you might even consider not voting against Trump, practically no matter WHO was running against him, is a stunner to me.

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I never even implied that nor did I EVER consider it. You may want to reread what I wrote.

Edit: Opps, I see where I may have miscommunicated this. In my quote that you quoted in red, I should have replaced the word "we" with "they".

I would never abdicate my voting privileges..........ever.

It's pretty clear that it is Donald Trump on the tape of him talking to People magazine. Some talk about the tape being a diversion so folks won't talk about Donald Ttump's taxes. We need to see his past tax statements, at least 10 years back.

This tape shows the type of character Trump is because instead of fessing up he's lieing about it. He's treating folks as if they are stupid.

Some time ago he said his taxes were nobody's business. I'm not sure if he really is going to show America his tax statements. He has also said that he was being audited and that was the reason. I've heard folks on CNN say that it wouldn't matter that he is being audited, he still could show his taxes.

There has never been a presidential race that I haven't voted in. I will vote and I will vote for either Bernie or Hillary. If the democratic choice ends up being Hillary Clinton I will vote for her vs the alternative which would be a nightmare for America.

Over and over again Trump is showing us what kind of person he is and its up to voters to make sure this con man doesn't become the king he so wants to be.

lwien said:

I never even implied that nor did I EVER consider it. You may want to reread what I wrote.

Edit: Opps, I see where I may have miscommunicated this. In my quote that you quoted in red, I should have replaced the word "we" with "they".

I would never abdicate my voting privileges..........ever.

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I didn't think so, that is why I was so surprised. I am reassured...

But, as a class of voters, the idea of people who get it (and are not ideologically extreme) not rejecting Trump en mass is a bridge too far for me. His failures and corrupt view of the world are so clearly on display each time he opens his mouth that I just can't imagine a majority could allow his ascendance.

This latest bit that he may have been the one to release that tape of him pretending to be a PR person is a perfect example. Somehow he seems to think that that behavior on the tape is admirable. Even HE has to know that a voiceprint is nearly as reliable as a fingerprint for identification. It is OBVIOUSLY him.

Does he really believe that ANY attention is good attention? I think he does.

All trump's been successful at is accommodating hatred, and exploiting economic victimization. So far. I have no reason to doubt his ascendancy however, as these two factors are endemic in our society and not just to middle-class racist white males. If trump somehow gets elected, he will destroy his own "brand" in term one and set the table for liberals for years to come. But if hillary is elected, the faux & co. hate/spin machine will go into overdrive and continue to set things up for when the next trump/pt barnum/hitler comes along. If the american voter is tired of our unending, self-perpetuating bullshit war on whoever we decide is a terrorist, sadly hillary isn't an option either. If you want , bernie sanders is the only way.

Sadly for your theory, Bernie has about as much chance at this point to be the Democratic nominee as Jim Webb. That is not an attack on Bernie, so no reason to beat me up, but it just isn't gonna happen.

Time to start thinking about what you will do when Bernie stops running for President and starts supporting the nominee...

You're probably right @cybrguy. I had to slip that in there just in case of a snowballs chance in hell that Bernie wins more delegates than Hillary. I'm a team player when I need to be.

I'm just so paranoid that Trump will get in as the leader of our country. I think a month before the election I might have trouble sleeping until the election is over. I've never felt that there was so much at stake. I'm a little irritated and worried about all these snafoos regarding the email server of Hillary and hope that their charity is beyond reproach.

It worries me too that folks on FC feel similar to me. What about how the rest of America feels?

Edit
Interesting Trump isn't been campaigning anywhere today. Saturday's are big days for pres candidates.
Peoples magazine's former reporter Sue Carswell says she thinks Trump released the tape. She says it was Donald Trump on the phone back in the 90s. He even admitted weeks later that it was him and that it was a joke. It was known that he acted as his own publicist and pretended to be John Miller.

Richard Clark just said on CNN that in a crisis he would be worried about Donald Trump. You need to keep a cool head and think precisely in a critical situation. The Donald is too impulsive. He says several folks that are republican that work in defense, say they won't work with Trump.

So disappointed SNL has a rerun tonight. I'm not sure the season might be over? I fell asleep last week before the end. Last weeks show was new.

lwien said:

I never even implied that nor did I EVER consider it. You may want to reread what I wrote.

Edit: Opps, I see where I may have miscommunicated this. In my quote that you quoted in red, I should have replaced the word "we" with "they".

I would never abdicate my voting privileges..........ever.

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Excuse me as I breathe a huge sigh of relief!

Just my opinion, but it seems to me that the tea party/extreme right have been so successful because they are vocal and they vote. I see way too many Democrats/Liberals that don't vote. These apathetic Democrat/Liberals are vocal and seem to care, but when it comes time to actually vote they're MIA. One vote can make a difference. It may be the a huge difference this time.
Like others have said, a trump presidency scares me and I will vote whom ever the Democratic nominee is.

cybrguy said:

Sadly for your theory, Bernie has about as much chance at this point to be the Democratic nominee as Jim Webb. That is not an attack on Bernie, so no reason to beat me up, but it just isn't gonna happen.

Time to start thinking about what you will do when Bernie stops running for President and starts supporting the nominee...

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I'm not ready to give up on Bernie and I don't have to think long about what I'll do if Bernie stops running....... If Bernie stops running, I simply support and vote for the democratic nominee/Hillary.

I consider Trump's success a bizarre social phenomenon and for me....it's become a constant reminder that there is such a thing as 'selective perception'. Selective perception means your beliefs are shaped by your experiences and you incorrectly think the majority feels the same way as you. I've started to wonder whether the majority of the voting public views Trump the way many of you folks do and I do. Basically I'm wondering if I'm kidding myself that there is no way in hell he can win.

I've said the same thing many have said here....'There's no way Trump wins the general. America as a whole doesn't believe nor want this man representing us or making decisions on our behalf....etc...etc...but many of us, including me early on, said the same thing about the primary. Here's why I've begun questioning whether the majority sees it the same way many of us think they do....

- Trump has said and done things that no other politician could have gotten away with and it seems to only strengthen his base/run.
- Trump is not being held to the same standard as mainstream politicians. He's not required to have a previous political background or even a basic understanding of the political world. In fact...his lack of understanding seems to be a plus for him. If he says something wacky and/or just changes his mind the next day he is said to have 'evolved'.
- There have been some republican contenders in the primary that should have appealed to the moderates in the party and they got no traction. In fact, it actually looks like common decency, experience and intelligence may have been their downfall.
- Paul Ryan said Trump has gotten more primary votes than any republican in history and has brought republicans a demographic they haven't seen in many years.
- Some of the democratic and liberal millennials I've talked to have said they will not vote for Hillary. They've said they won't vote for Trump either but to me that's no consolation.
- Right, wrong or indifferent Hillary isn't as well liked as she is connected.
- After 8 years of perceived grid-lock and political shenanigans between the parties...how many are simply shrugging their shoulders and won't vote or will vote for the outsider/Trump because enough is enough.

Bill Maher recently said we shouldn't become complacent because we think Trump is unable to win the general and that thinking this way could lose us the election. I think he's right and I think we may be practicing selective perception here. So....while my values and experiences tell me there is no way this petulant asshat can win....my mind is telling me to keep up the fight and not to count those chickens/voters.

I'm actually starting to believe he can win.....and I'm scared shitless.

Trumps gonna be president FUCK FUCK FUCK.
I can't like him cause he never built any character, never had to face adversity, was born into millions.
Or Billary gonna be prez...FUCK FUCK FUCK.

This was posted a couple days ago.
While it’s hardly shocking that mainstream media targeted Jon Stewart’s latest jab - in which he described Donald Trump as a “man-baby” - the mainstream media establishment mouthpiece virtually ignored his lambasting of Hillary Clinton.

“What I think about Hillary Clinton is, you know … I imagine [her] to be a very bright woman … without the courage of her convictions — ‘cause I’m not even sure what they are,” Stewart told David Axelrod for his podcast, The Axe, to which the audience erupted in applause.

Though the slam represented more than corporate media has managed thus far during the former secretary of state’s troubled run for the presidency, Jon Stewart took the description to a hilarious next level. For reference, Magic Johnson once had a talk show that ultimately failed because … well … witness Stewart’s comparison of Johson to Hillary:

“Magic Johnson was a charming individual, but he wasn’t a talk show host … so, he would sit and he would go, [Stewart affected a flat tone here] ‘Uh, my first guest tonight … my first guest tonight is [with lots of enthusiasm] CHER, everybody!’ But he never seemed authentic and real to his personality. It seemed like he was wearing an outfit designed by someone else for someone else to be someone else, and that is not to say that [Clinton] is not preferable to Donald Trump — because at this point, I would vote for Mr. T over Donald.

I sure miss seeing Jon. Gone before we were ready for him to retire. I'm hoping to see more of him someday on TV. HBO needs to give him a show or maybe Showtime. He could say what he wanted without much restriction.

I think Jon Stewart described it pretty well.

The Trump Train folks are gonna hold on to their "feel good" bet just like gamblers gonna "let it ride" on the casino Roulette table... they simply wont know how or when to let go, so they're in it to win it come hell or high water come what may all the way.

Maher pointed out that democrats are still at odds with each other, while 85% of republicans have united behind trump. After 58% said no way no how to the same guy. I think they smell blood in the water.

Eatrocks said:

Trumps gonna be president FUCK FUCK FUCK.
I can't like him cause he never built any character, never had to face adversity, was born into millions.

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That's a touch unfair. Withstanding he is still new money and not blueblood enough to belonging in the establishment. It is almost like a Great Gatsby dynamic. Trump as well can be seen an American dream story in its own right.

neverforget711 said:

That's a touch unfair. Withstanding he is still new money and not blueblood enough to belonging in the establishment. It is almost like a Great Gatsby dynamic. Trump as well can be seen an American dream story in its own right.

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To me, Trump is what he is Now, the face he shows Now, the character he lacks Now, yada yada yada... He may as well have fallen from the sky for all I care - to me he's a wingless and horned self-proclaimed demigod not entitled to my knee or vote.

neverforget711 said:

That's a touch unfair. Trump as well can be seen an American dream story in its own right.

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Yeah, if the American dream is for your father to give you $40 million dollars.

Snappo said:

The Trump Train folks are gonna hold on to their "feel good" bet just like gamblers gonna "let it ride" on the casino Roulette table... they simply wont know how or when to let go, so they're in it to win it come hell or high water come what may all the way.

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I am not confident enough in this that I could recommend leaning on it, but I truly believe that many of the folk who have boarded that train boarded it out of anger and frustration, but have no real allegiance to the Donald. His bad behavior may well drive many of them away. It is one thing to act impulsively out of anger, but there will be plenty of time and examples that may result in many who might have supported him to "see the light" and recognize that what he wants (and promises) really doesn't coincide with what they want.

His "REAL" supporters, the crazies and racists and haters, they will stay and vote for him I'm sure, but they are a small percentage of the folks who have supported him so far.

The good news is that folks who say outrageously stupid things are usually defeated. Ask "I am not a witch" Christine O'Donnel or "Bring a chicken to the doc" Sharon Angle. Then there is "Ya can't get pregnant from rape" Todd Akin. There are more examples, but not all of them end in defeat, just most of them do. We have some pretty ridiculous Senators and Congresspersons, so its not like stupidity or ridiculousness automatically disqualifies candidates (tho it should). "Climate change is a lie straight out of the pits of hell" comes to mind, for example...

Anyway, I am concerned, of course, with the apparent support Trump gets, but I don't think it will last thru the coming onslaught. And it seems pretty clear to me that Trump is going to refuse the advice of his professionals. Cult of personality may well get you through the primaries when you are only talking to your direct followers, but I don't think it can carry him through the general...

Edit: Oops, bring a chicken was Sue Lowden. Sharon Angle was "Second amendment remedies..."

I wish I could stop paying attention to politics. I can't change the final outcome: it's folly to let it get to me. I should just vote and be done with it.

cybrguy said:

I am not confident enough in this that I could recommend leaning on it, but I truly believe that many of the folk who have boarded that train boarded it out of anger and frustration, but have no real allegiance to the Donald. His bad behavior may well drive many of them away. It is one thing to act impulsively out of anger, but there will be plenty of time and examples that may result in many who might have supported him to "see the light" and recognize that what he wants (and promises) really doesn't coincide with what they want.

His "REAL" supporters, the crazies and racists and haters, they will stay and vote for him I'm sure, but they are a small percentage of the folks who have supported him so far.

The good news is that folks who say outrageously stupid things are usually defeated. Ask "I am not a witch" Christine O'Donnel or "Bring a chicken to the doc" Sharon Angle. Then there is "Ya can't get pregnant from rape" Todd Akin. There are more examples, but not all of them end in defeat, just most of them do. We have some pretty ridiculous Senators and Congresspersons, so its not like stupidity or ridiculousness automatically disqualifies candidates (tho it should). "Climate change is a lie straight out of the pits of hell" comes to mind, for example...

Anyway, I am concerned, of course, with the apparent support Trump gets, but I don't think it will last thru the coming onslaught. And it seems pretty clear to me that Trump is going to refuse the advice of his professionals. Cult of personality may well get you through the primaries when you are only talking to your direct followers, but I don't think it can carry him through the general...

Edit: Oops, bring a chicken was Sue Lowden. Sharon Angle was "Second amendment remedies..."

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I can only wish you to be right, but my faith in human intelligence en masse pins me firmly opposite to your rationale. Time will tell.

macbill said:

I wish I could stop paying attention to politics. I can't change the final outcome: it's folly to let it get to me. I should just vote and be done with it.

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I agree with you there seems like there is so much at stake if Trump gets in office. I'm afraid I will start to lose sleep over it.

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I edited my post s bit after rereading yours @macbill

My faith in human kind will be restored if the voters wise up and don't put Trump in as the commander and chief. After folks voting for George W. Bush a second time anything is possible.

macbill said:

I wish I could stop paying attention to politics. I can't change the final outcome: it's folly to let it get to me. I should just vote and be done with it.

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I certainly hear ya on this. I often find myself getting way worked up on this stuff, and I need to take a break. You all have no idea how many already written posts I have deleted, or completely rewritten. Not only do I not want this thread shut down, but I really don't want to offend anyone either. Really.

It's just that this is all so important. So incredibly consequential. I can't not care deeply about it. And I appreciate the mods willingness to let us talk about it as long as we stay somewhat "holstered"...

Snappo said:

I can only wish you to be right, but my faith in human intelligence en masse pins me firmly opposite to your rationale. Time will tell.

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It's a weird feeling to hope what we believe is wrong, eh?

Off to celebrate our humanity with friends for dinner. They keep me sane...

CarolKing said:

In a normal election I would agree with you but it seems like ther is so much at stake if Trump gets in office. I'm afraid I will start to lose sleep over it.

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I wont lose sleep over "The Devil Inaugural Incarnate" taking his throne, but I will hunker down in all things and loved ones me & mine - going to join the Extra-terrestrial Alien Agenda Underground, pull the door down over my doomsday cellar and latch it tight, and wait for the noxious fallout and Dawn of the Dead cadaver flies to clear.