VaporGenie

^^^^^^^^

IMO if you can taste the "butane" you are doing it wrong. Chances are either you are touching the flame to the filter or you did at one point and it deposited soot. Both of those would greatly affect the taste you are getting out of a VG. This is why i recommend using a torch. No soot deposited and faster toking times.

I let a guy use it, and they love to torch things and get big nose-snorting rips, so maybe that is what happened. I inspected the filter for black, and found none. Can it burn inside the filter?

Oh. If someone actually burns a bowl in the VG (combusts) then there goes the taste as well. Everything will taste funny after that until you can get rid of the tar in the pipe by cleaning it with alchool. Maybe that's what happened?

For the filter itself Im not sure if the soot is only deposited on top or if it goes in it. I would think the soot would go inside as well since it would be deposited as you breathe in but I couldn't say for sure.

fylgja said:

I use medicinal plants to help lower my intraocular pressure. I also get chronic, daily migraines without it, so it's necessary for me to just be able to function. I tried all other meds. I bought the VG because I started coughing up black sludge and I know that just can't be a good sign at all. I smartened up and did the research. I thought this would be a good transition to vaping, but for me it just didn't make me happy. I hated the taste, and the effects I was getting from inhaling butane. It actually made my asthma worse. I've experiemented since with cooking the plants in recipes, but it uses a lot more product and had more of a narcotic-like effect than I like. I gave it to my friend to try out to see if she found it any better, for herself, but she said it tasted nothing like the box-type vape she's used to using. She said it tasted weird. I looked it up and found information saying that when the butane mixes with the air it creates carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide, so that's what your inhaling alone with your vapes if you use a butane lighter. I decided to just stay away from fire all together and give the LB a try instead. I hope others have better luck than I did with the VG. I never heard of the VG bat, but it sounds like a lot of people are enjoying it too.

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When butane combusts it produces carbon dioxide and water only!!! What you were tasting was soot. This is due to imperfect technique. Since all varieties of the VG rely on heating the ceramic flame filter, only heated air and vapor is ever inhaled.

I just got my aluminum bat today. As much as I don't want to accept it I think there is something wrong with it. Seems it got tossed around pretty bad in shipping, got jostled around hard enough to knock the screen out of place and possibly knock loose the ceramic filter, not sure if this is normal or not but its loose now. I've read most of this thread and have a fair share of experience with vapes, however I've never used a genie before. After my first very unsuccessful bowl, I was not able to produce any vapor and left the bud perfectly green. No matter how slowly I hit it, continuously holding the flame for upwards of 20 seconds got the bat super hot real quick, but did not produce any vapor and left my throat super irritated. I then opened her up and noticed the ceramic filter seemed to be out of place, and was dislodged about an 1/4" upwards (away from the bowl). I noticed there was absolutely no resistance when sucking through the filter piece, I gave a real hard suck and felt the filter slide back a bit. Then after several taps on my palm I got the filter more or less back into place, about half an inch above the bowl. I tired it again with a fresh load of bud, this time with the filter "in place", i also used a torch lighter. I was still unable to produce any noticeable ( I dont mean visible) vapor, and my bud was left with the slightest hint of brown but was still undeniably green. With the torch I made a strong effort to inhale quite slowly with maximum flame, the bat quickly got too hot to even hold yet still did not produce any vapor.

I understand user error attributes to 99% of any problems associated with these vapes, and I wouldn't be surprised if thats the case now. But after the amount of heat I applied I just don't understand how it didn't combust, let alone vaporize. One thing that really stands out to me is how little resistance there is through the filter end of the bat. If feels as if there is nothing there, and the air is flowing more around the filter than through, there seems to be an even gap all the way around the filter, but from pictures Ive seen this is normal. So is this low resistance through this part normal or sign that somethings up?


EDIT: Again just packed another bowl half way up the threads, pretty loose but plenty of bud. I sat here hitting for well over a minute desperate trying different draw speeds, and sticking the flame from my torch lighter into the hole. The bat real hot, but just kept trying until it was too hot to hold. Never got any vapor, or as much as a taste of bud. And my bud was left PERFECTLY green, just very dry. WTF is going?

Use a regular lighter.
Some users have reported that torch lighters don't heat up the right area (the ceramic).

Yes I have tried both types, and I have read through this thread so I am aware of the most common tips and tricks. My main concern is my ceramic filter got dislodged during shipment, and I think is what is giving me issues.

My filter can be moved up and down and it still gives nice vapor hits no problem. I also blow through the filter all the time and it doesn't give much resistance. Good luck.

Maybe its the way you are drawing the flame. Let me share my experience, I basically use my regular model VG with hash exclusively. It took me quite some time to get used to lighting it properly. What you ideally need to do is not really suck in the lighter flame into the hole but just suck the heat produced around the flame. So the flame should be placed above the hole not inside the hole, the flame tip should just barely dip inwards while sucking not go completely inside and you should suck in the heat around the flame, suck gently without too much added pressure or force.

Hope this makes sense .... all the best

t00fatt said:

I just got my aluminum bat today. As much as I don't want to accept it I think there is something wrong with it. Seems it got tossed around pretty bad in shipping, got jostled around hard enough to knock the screen out of place and possibly knock loose the ceramic filter, not sure if this is normal or not but its loose now. I've read most of this thread and have a fair share of experience with vapes, however I've never used a genie before. After my first very unsuccessful bowl, I was not able to produce any vapor and left the bud perfectly green. No matter how slowly I hit it, continuously holding the flame for upwards of 20 seconds got the bat super hot real quick, but did not produce any vapor and left my throat super irritated. I then opened her up and noticed the ceramic filter seemed to be out of place, and was dislodged about an 1/4" upwards (away from the bowl). I noticed there was absolutely no resistance when sucking through the filter piece, I gave a real hard suck and felt the filter slide back a bit. Then after several taps on my palm I got the filter more or less back into place, about half an inch above the bowl. I tired it again with a fresh load of bud, this time with the filter "in place", i also used a torch lighter. I was still unable to produce any noticeable ( I dont mean visible) vapor, and my bud was left with the slightest hint of brown but was still undeniably green. With the torch I made a strong effort to inhale quite slowly with maximum flame, the bat quickly got too hot to even hold yet still did not produce any vapor.

I understand user error attributes to 99% of any problems associated with these vapes, and I wouldn't be surprised if thats the case now. But after the amount of heat I applied I just don't understand how it didn't combust, let alone vaporize. One thing that really stands out to me is how little resistance there is through the filter end of the bat. If feels as if there is nothing there, and the air is flowing more around the filter than through, there seems to be an even gap all the way around the filter, but from pictures Ive seen this is normal. So is this low resistance through this part normal or sign that somethings up?


EDIT: Again just packed another bowl half way up the threads, pretty loose but plenty of bud. I sat here hitting for well over a minute desperate trying different draw speeds, and sticking the flame from my torch lighter into the hole. The bat real hot, but just kept trying until it was too hot to hold. Never got any vapor, or as much as a taste of bud. And my bud was left PERFECTLY green, just very dry. WTF is going?

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I'll be honest, this sounds like it could easily be a defective unit. Just be absolutely sure that you're pulling as slow as you possible can. For almost a year I hit my teak genie to fast, thinking that the SLOWEST I could hit was too slow, when in fact it was in the ballpark of where I should have been.
Try and chug on the mouthpiece a bit and see if the airflow feels like one area of the insides could be broken and letting through more clear air, (ergo making the airflow really fast and impossible for a hit). I would bet that that is the problem if something inside broke.

That's a real shame, those look like nifty little bats :/
Good luck with it! (And I would definitely recommend the hand carved genie if you decide to try out another model!)

t00fatt said:

WTF is going?

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I recently received a new teak VG that was clogged. One email to VG straightened out the problem. A prepaid envelope was sent to me and when they received the defective unit a replacement was immediately shipped back to me.

Maybe clean it up real good and send it back for another one after contacting them and describing its problems?

t00fatt, i can definitely say that the torch doesnt work well with the bat...that said, read my previous posts on the last page or so on the technique i use.... also i hold the bat with the hole at a 45 degree angle (or so) to the ground, so it captures most of the heat of your lighter...my disc moves about an 1/8 of an inch or so if i suck or blow in the flame hole... i try to make sure its at its closest position to the bud...my air draws are almost identical to just a normal breath in... about that speed... i also "pulse" heat mine, bringing up the temp of the ceramic disc in increments...(again, read previous post on my heat application) with a bic i do 8-10 sec increments... with 2-4 "cool" air in between hits tasting for vapor/heat...normally with a bowl half to 3/4 full (about an pencil eraser size amount ground fine) i start getting vapor after about the 3 application of heat, and there after after (depending how quick i hit the next hit) i usually will get vapor after only a few seconds of heat...but i do the whole bowl only doing "pulse" type heating... that way i dont ignite my herbs and it gives me better control over the heat... by the time the bat is too hot to hold, all the vape should be finished...usually, by the time i can hit it 4x in a row with 8 sec of heat followed by 3-4 secs of cool air and no real visible vape to speak of, im done....the type of lighter is huge.... i have an old jet lighter that blew out and now has a blue candle type flame...it works the best, hot but a candle flame.... ive looked for new lighters that can do this, but have yet to find one...(the one i have is pain in the ass because i have to light it with another lighter...but it works great.)...when trying it with a bic, it definitely took applying the heat for longer timed pulses and took a little longer to heat up... and with a jet lighter, i really didnt have too much luck....it was near impossible without heating the bat itself too much...i know this isnt much, but good luck.... :/

Ok after a lot more testing, I'm not so sure that its defective. I honestly think its just a bad design, that I had much higher expectations for, I should have ordered the original model. You guys are right, the torch was not working, no matter what i did with the torch I could never feel much heat on my tongue. Switched back to my lighter, and got a bit more aggressive with the flame letting a quarter to sometimes half the flame pass through the hole, before I was being much more conservative. I am now able to get 2 to 3 hits from a well packed bowl, still loose but a significant amount of bud (any less than that and i get NOTHING). Now those 2 first hits are nice and pretty big, but after that I get a tiny tiny hit of vapor than i can't get anything anymore. Also I have to add, the vapor I got while still sort of thick and visible, was "low temp" vapor, had that sexy blue tint and left with a killer head buzz. The bud was left only slightly browned, put it in my PD and got another 2 or 3 full sized hits out of each PD bowl I pulled from the bat, which was about three PD bowls. I'm hitting it with the flame hard enough to combust (in a normal genie I suppose), i give it ALOT of flame and a nice slow consistent pace, but it won't fully vape. Is this normal with the bat, that you simply CANNOT cumbust, let alone leave your buds fully vaped? And my hits were all consecutive, I did not allow it too cool down between hits (attempts), even when it was too hot to hold, it still would not full vaporize.

When I feel heat really start to flow over my tongue, I didn't stop, I keep hitting it even slower to feel more heat, each time I think, "Ok that was soo much heat there HAS to be some vapor this time..." only to exhale and taste and see absolutely nothing, well except for that wonderful nasty lighter taste. And my bud is left far from browned.

Honestly I think the problem is a bad design, the aluminum soaks up way too much radiant heat, even when your careful with the flame and it never touches the body. I supposes there are others who may manage to not heat the bat as much, but I can't imagine how since the flame doesn't touch anything. After hitting it twice the way I am, desperately trying to get vapor, it becomes WAY too hot to hold. I guess if you weren't expecting the bat to perform as well as a regular genie, then I can see how you can be happy. If I was expecting big piece of aluminum, that got too hot to hold, and only gave you two nice hits, then nothing AT ALL, I wouldn't be as thoroughly disappointed.

@shotgunwilly, thank for the advice, I do the same. Except I get vapor after my first application of heat after about 4 or 5 seconds, however I'm not pulsing my heat but desperately trying to heat the chamber. If I hit it like your saying I get absolutely nothing, I have to be much more for aggressive, but I do use the 45* angle as well. Once the filter is nice and hot, I dont notice any difference in "warm up" before getting more vapor.

I'm going to contact VG and tell them about my experience, maybe it is defective, but I doubt it. However I am thoroughly disappointed with the product, hopefully I can exchange it for an original unit and cover the difference. Its still in perfect condition, I haven't gotten any soot on the filter, but a lot of soot builds up on the walls in the flame intake chamber, luckily that just wipes off. Thats my other concern, I'm absolutely inhaling trace amounts of soot, may not be enough to clog the filter, but one those vaporless hits there nothing to hid that lighter taste, those hits taste EXACTLY like hitting a clean brand new metal bowl. With the normal genie I don't think any of the soot gets sucked, since much less of he flame gets sucked in, there is a chance for the soot to rise with heat of the flame. With the bat at a 45* angle, and needing to actually suck the flame into the hole, this doesn't allow the soot to escape like with the normal genie, but instead deposits on the inside, so to think trace amounts of soot aren't being sucked through is a bit naive to say the least. If they won't take it back, which I think is likely, I'll have it up for sale on FC for $35 shipped if anyone is interested, somehow... :/

Thanks again guys, your time and effort to reply is greatly appreciated.

Unfortunately I can confirm many of your problems t00fatt.
The first time I have used it, I packed about 0.1g and it worked fine. But every new session requires more herb added, or it doesn't work. I have noticed, after every session, that the herb remains green, but it requires more or it doesn't release any vapor. No matter on how much I heat, or how fast I draw...
I only irritate my mouth with hot air, and there is no visible vapor, or even the taste of it.

So I think that the bat works ONLY with consistent amounts of herb, and it can't reach higher temps for any reasons (maybe the distance between the flame and the bowl is too long?), so the vaped herb still green but it has to be trashed, or used in other ways (in another vaporizer, for cookies, etc...).

It would be great if someone can contradict me, and share some useful tips

Thanks

wow guys, although i had a couple of days learning curve with the bat...(usually getting too hot to hold) i havent had the issue you guys are describing.... although perhaps its as gb902 describes... because im using more herb? (i usually roll with the bowl about 3/4 full)... my herb gets brown, and i can get ignition if i wanted to quite easy... i usually get 6 good hits out of a bowl... i never had any soot build up on my bat either...ive tried smaller bowls, and correspondingly got fewer hits.... i do reach a point however, just before ignition where i will be hitting it for sometime and it gets real hot and no vapor... but thats at the end of a bowl though....i also have had it where i didnt feel i was getting any, gave the bowl a little stir and get a couple of more decent hits...(ive noticed that the herb towards the outside edges seems to tend to stay greener longer and almost seems to "soak up" a bit of the thc......so i make sure to stir that into the middle of the bowl every couple of hits...)...other than that, man, i m sorry you guys are having such difficulties... it took me a good couple of days before i started to get the hang of mine...i love it now...but that said, i never tried the pd, (love to, but every time i go to buy one, they arent selling them...)but, overall, i have to say im pretty happy with the bat and mine has performed as intended.... gets me ripped, gets the herb to a nice brown color, all in 6-8 nice hits, (maybe a little more...by then im usually got a decent buzz on and i forget to count...) well, i wish both of you guys good luck... i think the lighter is the single biggest factor with the bat though... i am continuing my quest for a blue flame candle lighter... they have to have one somewhere... also, question for any of you out there with the BIG "torch" lighter (the one that has an adjustable flame, kind of looks like a gun... the one they use for creme brulee type) anyway, my question is can you adjust the flame on those to a lazy blue flame?...(not torch, but a blue candle style flame)... i ve only seen the lighter in pics, but it looks like you can mess with the air intake on them and i was wonder if that it true... anyway, thanks in advance...

shotgunwilly said:

can you adjust the flame on those to a lazy blue flame?...(not torch, but a blue candle style flame)... i ve only seen the lighter in pics, but it looks like you can mess with the air intake on them and i was wonder if that it true... anyway, thanks in advance...

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Yes. You can mess with the air/fuel ratio.

Thank you willy for your help, probably (as you said), the bat has a learning curve, and I haven't mastered the tecnique yet, maybe I just need only more practice.
I can confirm that the lighter is one of biggest factors, and I could say... stay away from torch lighters, they are useless with the bat, for various reasons.

hey macradish, i take it that you have one of those torch gun lighters... can you adjust the torch flame on it to go to a blue candle flame? thanks

shotgunwilly said:

hey macradish, i take it that you have one of those torch gun lighters... can you adjust the torch flame on it to go to a blue candle flame? thanks

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I have the Ever Tech "Shark" model torch lighter and I have been trying to do this, but have had no success...I read about your blue flame but I don't remember how you did it (by accident?) and it sounds awesome.

I have a question for you, shotgun: Did you put any kind of tape on your aluminum bat to grip it? My friend just got one (I haven't tried it yet) and he said it gets pretty hot, and we are trying to find some kind of tape to put around it to keep the heat in, but we don't want to put it on and gunk it up unless we are sure that it will help.

So far we are considering electrical tape or athletic (hockey) tape, do you think either of those would work well?

no...currently i dont put anything on mine... ive got it down now where i can vape the bowl before it gets too hot...but, that is me doing a bowl solo, but with people, i can see where the bat would be smokin...especially if they arent up to speed with it.... but originally i wrapped it in a piece of thin leather...i was going to form fit the mouth piece part with it and sew it like a steering wheel cover, but, like i said, i started to get the hang of vaping it and not getting it up to a million degrees, so i never did.... as far as the lighter, yes, it was an old jet flame that somehow got damaged...so now it wont light on its own, and the flame is a lazy blue candle, but it works perfect with the bat... i was hoping "the pistol" by ever tech or a similar style would be able convert the jet to a lazy blue flame....

shotgunwilly said:

hey macradish, i take it that you have one of those torch gun lighters... can you adjust the torch flame on it to go to a blue candle flame? thanks

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If by "blue candle flame" you mean like a lazy licking blue flame, (IOW no jet sounding pointy torch flame), yes you can.

right on...thank you for responding... sounds perfect...by chance do you own a bat, and if you do, how well does it work with it? sounds like the flame my busted ass, old jet lighter has... and it works fantastic...(hotter than the usual candle flame.) looks like i need to buy one...very cool...thank you for replying.

MacRadish said:

shotgunwilly said:

hey macradish, i take it that you have one of those torch gun lighters... can you adjust the torch flame on it to go to a blue candle flame? thanks

Click to expand...

If by "blue candle flame" you mean like a lazy licking blue flame, (IOW no jet sounding pointy torch flame), yes you can.

Click to expand...

I might check out that model too because the one I have can't do that..how did you get the lazy blue flame? Maybe I can get this one to do it too

shotgunwilly said:

no...currently i dont put anything on mine... ive got it down now where i can vape the bowl before it gets too hot...but, that is me doing a bowl solo, but with people, i can see where the bat would be smokin...especially if they arent up to speed with it.... but originally i wrapped it in a piece of thin leather...i was going to form fit the mouth piece part with it and sew it like a steering wheel cover, but, like i said, i started to get the hang of vaping it and not getting it up to a million degrees, so i never did.... as far as the lighter, yes, it was an old jet flame that somehow got damaged...so now it wont light on its own, and the flame is a lazy blue candle, but it works perfect with the bat... i was hoping "the pistol" by ever tech or a similar style would be able convert the jet to a lazy blue flame....

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Thanks for the suggestion, I will tell my friend to try that and hopefully report the result

...wrapping it in leather let me hold it indefinitely, but it would eventually get too hot for my lips... (i never tried completely covering the metal...i left a metal "mouth piece" part for my lips.)...also, ive seen those pistol lighters on ebay for 12.95 with free shipping...i definitely believe the hotter blue flame makes it easier for the disc to get up to vape temp a lot quicker and by the time the metal gets to the point of its too hot to hit, the herb is toasty brown and im done vaping.... thanks again guys for answering my question... a long search hopefully has come to an end...(the next is to buy a pd....cant wait for them to resume production)

Rin101 said:

I might check out that model too because the one I have can't do that..how did you get the lazy blue flame? Maybe I can get this one to do it too

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I have the Blazer model. They have an adjustable air/fuel mixture knob. Full air makes a jet sounding pointed torch flame. Adjusting it lean, less air, will turn it into a soft flickering yellow candle flame. In between you can find a lazy blue flame.