The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

BD9

Well-Known Member
Here's a little more about the comments Giuliani made about HRC being too stupid that @cybrguy first mentioned.

Hillary Clinton 'too stupid' to be president after Monica Lewinsky scandal, Rudy Giuliani claims

"The President of the United States, her husband, disgraced this country with what he did in the Oval Office and she didn’t just stand by him, she attacked Monica Lewinsky."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...stupid-to-be-president-after-monica-lewinsky/
Mr Giuliani added: "After being married to Bill Clinton for 20 years, if you didn’t know the moment Monica Lewinsky said that Bill Clinton violated her that she was telling the truth, then you’re too stupid to be president."

I remember hearing about Giuliani having one or more affairs so the hypocrite train is running hard and fast on this one.
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
Donald Trump was having an affair before he divorced Ivanna his first wife. Remember Marla Maples?

Ivanna also said at one point that The Donald would force sex on her. Then later said something different after Trump probably threatened her. He's been pretty awful himself relating to woman.

Michelle Obama is a great speaker. I hope she gets out there.
I want Michelle to run for president someday but she's probably sick of politics.

Edit
Former Senetor John Warner a republican is going to endorse Hillary.
 
Last edited:

grokit

well-worn member
Except Comey admitted no such thing. No laws were broken.
Do we really have to go through this again?

Comey:

“Our investigation looked at whether there is evidence classified information was improperly stored or transmitted on that personal system, in violation of a federal statute making it a felony to mishandle classified information either intentionally or in a grossly negligent way, or a second statute making it a misdemeanor to knowingly remove classified information from appropriate systems or storage facilities.

“From the group of 30,000 e-mails returned to the State Department, 110 e-mails in 52 e-mail chains have been determined by the owning agency to contain classified information at the time they were sent or received. Eight of those chains contained information that was Top Secret at the time they were sent; 36 chains contained Secret information at the time; and eight contained Confidential information, which is the lowest level of classification. Separate from those, about 2,000 additional e-mails were ‘up-classified’ to make them Confidential; the information in those had not been classified at the time the e-mails were sent.”


So killary lied that no classified information was received or sent, which is a felony. She also lied that she only used a private server because she wanted one device. She lied that the State Department allowed her to jerry-rig this technological set-up. She lied that the emails were never breached. There's more...

:myday:
 
Last edited:

phattpiggie

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
I sat and watched a re-run of the debate last nite and whilst they both had a lot too say it would seem Trump just kept repeating the same thing.

He is rite about keeping a decent manufacturing base in the US but he doesn't seem to understand that to be competitive in today's global economy means some things need to be outsourced
He kept saying how he was the man to lead the country as he understood money, but his track record shows he doesn't really know what he is on about.

You can tax imports as much as you like but unless you can produce the same stuff at a reasonable price then you will always have people buying 'foreign' goods.

Clinton was very obviously reading pre-prepared notes but when put on the spot she seemed to be able to give an answer. She also answered the given questions unlike Trump.

The social and economical divide globally is horrendous and it will never be properly addressed, Jeremy Corbyn says he wants something doing in the UK about the situation but the 'super rich' have and will always be in charge.

If you thought Brexit screwed up the UK and had an impact on global markets lets see the shit hit the fan if Trump wins.
 

ReggieB

Well-Known Member
It's not really fair to bring up brexit fallout as it hasn't actually happened yet, all they've done so far is have a referendum on it, once article 50 has been triggered there's 2 years and then brexit will start. Anything that happens in the meantime is pre-brexit preparation. Although I guess you could mention the devaluation of the pound vs the dollar and the euro and how that's increased the costs for anyone purchasing raw materials from abroad.
 
ReggieB,
  • Like
Reactions: steama

Trypsy Summers

Well-Known Member
The presidential debate,

I watched this debate between Trump and Clinton as a neutral and to be honest, the OVERWHELMING thing that jumped out at me was, WHY? Why does any right minded person need to be governed?
As long as you ain't hurting nobody, then do the fuck what you want - AS LONG AS YOU AIN'T HURTING NO ONE, OR CAUSING HARM OR LOSS TO A NATURAL LIVING PERSON!

So why would anyone in their right mind want to consent to have these two losers as their slavemaster aka commander in chief, president, call it what you want!!

PS: This ain't just these two, it goes for all the so called leaders who are doing nothing but causing all the ills etc!!!

Cos all the shit is inverted, upside down, back to front, call it what you want!

Medicine is killing instead of curing
Defense is War (i.e. Love is Hate, and WAR is PEACE)
legality denies Justice (except for those in the link)
In the USA (& UK CAN EU etc), business and by that it seems like only the big and very big ones though, are automatically bailed out by the state! Ain't that communism?
Whilst within the Socialist bloc, you find that oligarchs (Billionaires) are very much common place and doing very well in Soviet Russia & Communist China! I mean, back in the day, didn't that use to be capitalism?
WTF!! How does that work??:hmm:

Not saying:\, Just saying:|, Without saying:suspicious:,

Pure Peace:leaf:
 

KimDracula

Well-Known Member
Well Kim, that's one POV of the issue. I read it as a slight variation on the dichotomy of "to each by their need" vs "to each by their effort or contribution". The former is really the basis of socialism while the later is the mantra of capitalists.

But they are, nonetheless, are two valid and opposing views on this that are not easily reconciled.



Really? I personally know some very successful and completely self-made people who would object strenuously to this statement. In my own family, on my father's side his father died when very young and my Father sold magazines to pay for college while my grandmother worked as counter help in a flower shop. On my mother's side, my grandparents were babushka wearing Ellis Island immigrants (well, my grandmother was). Of the five kids (my aunts and uncles), four pooled together to get one through college. As far as I am aware nobody on either side of the family received any social program benefits. I think they too would object strenuously to your statement.

As for me, I joined the ROTC at a time in our history when people spit on folks in uniform (first hand experience talking here). I did so because I could get a scholarship and stipend for my service in the USAF as well as work as a dish washer at the local airport coffee shop. I would not term my career since then as "Yugely" successful (nod to my friend, @Silat :wave:) but I have done well enough for myself and neither I nor anybody in my family has received or accepted any Federal social program benefits.

It would be so nice if it was all as simple as those wearing the black hats against those who are the good guys in the white hats. But that's only in the movies.

Now, there may be some who read this and draw the conclusion that I am a Trump supporter. That is simply not true.

But I try to be thoughtful on these subjects and not be an ideologue.

Best to you and yours.

Cheers

I know there are people who want to believe they succeeded without standing on the shoulders of those who came before. I know there are people who have worked very hard who don't want to admit that living in a society with infrastructure and civilization was necessary to their success. Both groups are wrong. Conservatives in this country seem to think they were individuals born in the sand with nothing around and they used their capitalist alchemy to ascend to great heights. No one succeeds alone despite the things successful people like to tell each other.

Black hats and white hats? I wasn't describing anything in terms of good and bad nor was I advancing any rigid ideology. I also try to be thoughtful. These come off like passive-aggressive insults in case it was an accident.
 

lwien

Well-Known Member
Well, there you go again, Kim, pointing fingers and dividing the electorate and their myriad views into us and them camps.

Enjoy

@KimDracula doesn't need to point fingers and divide the electorate. They've already been divided for a very long time and that division is more clearly defined today than ever before.

To me, there is a very clear mindset on how conservatives view the world and how liberals view the world, and they are radically different from one another. And, btw, this holds true for things way outside of just politics.
 
Last edited:

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
With more debates looming, Team Trump looks for a solution
09/28/16 12:47 PM

By Steve Benen
Ahead of this week’s presidential debate, Donald Trump’s campaign aides eagerly dished to reporters about the Republican candidate’s difficulties. Over the weekend, for example, the New York Times reported that the GOP nominee “has paid only cursory attention to briefing materials. He has refused to use lecterns in mock debate sessions despite the urging of his advisers. He prefers spitballing ideas with his team rather than honing them into crisp, two-minute answers.”

I found all of this very hard to believe. In fact, I largely assumed this was a shameless attempt at lowering expectations and that Trump had actually done extensive preparation.

After watching the Republican amateur struggle for an hour and a half on Monday night, it looks those pre-debate reports were accurate after all.

Of course, this week’s event was one of three showdowns pitting Trump against Hillary Clinton, and his aides have time to make him a better and more effective debater. The Times added today, however, that this is easier said than done.

Campaign advisers to Donald J. Trump, concerned that his focus and objectives had dissolved during the first presidential debate on Monday, plan to more rigorously prepare him for his next face-off with Hillary Clinton by drilling the Republican nominee on crucial answers, facts and counterattacks, and by coaching him on ways to whack Mrs. Clinton on issues even if he is not asked about them.

Whether he is open to practicing meticulously is a major concern, however, according to some of these advisers and others close to Mr. Trump.
The Times reportedly spoke to seven campaign aides and advisers who “expressed frustration and discouragement” over Trump’s performance Monday night, pointing to, among other things, “the lack of time spent on preparing a game plan.”

The article, however, also added this gem: “Almost all of his advisers rejected the idea that the debate was a failure for Mr. Trump, noting that he landed some punches and insisting that Mrs. Clinton looked more polished than she was because of her opposition.”

That’s a very odd sentence. It’s like saying, “The Miami Dolphins looked like a good team while playing the Cleveland Browns, because the Browns are pretty awful – said the management of the Cleveland Browns.”

And what about Roger Ailes’ role in getting Trump ready? The Times’ piece went on to report:

There were early efforts to run a more standard form of general election debate-prep camp, led by Roger Ailes, the ousted Fox News chief, at Mr. Trump’s golf course in Bedminster, N.J. But Mr. Trump found it hard to focus during those meetings, according to multiple people briefed on the process who requested anonymity to discuss internal deliberations. That left Mr. Ailes, who at the time was deeply distracted by his removal from Fox and the news media reports surrounding it, discussing his own problems as well as recounting political war stories, according to two people present for the sessions.
First, Trump “found it hard to focus”? That’s not exactly a positive trait in a candidate for the presidency.

Second, Ailes was apparently “distracted” by a series of sexual-harassment allegations – a variety of women at Fox News accused Ailes of breathtaking mistreatment – which made it difficult for him to help Trump prepare for the first-ever presidential debate featuring a woman nominee. There is some irony to this.

And finally, BuzzFeed’s McKay Coppins noted on Monday that James Carville had a striking prediction: Roger Ailes would get the word out on Tuesday “that he didn’t have much to do with Trump’s debate prep.” Carville may have been onto something.

But even putting all of these details aside, what we’re left with is a candidate whose own aides are clearly worried. They realize Trump needs to prepare far better for the second debate than he did for the first, but they’re just not sure if (a) wants to do his homework; and (b) he’s even able to prepare properly for the event.

That, in and of itself, says quite a bit about what Trump brings to the table as a candidate for the nation’s highest office.

Much of this will probably come down to Trump’s own impressions of Monday’s experience. If he believes he did well enough on Monday, and is confident he already knows how to perform better next time, the Republican will probably continue to blow off his aides’ suggestions. If he quietly accepts that he was a dreadful mess on Monday, perhaps he’ll grudgingly roll up his sleeves and make an effort to improve – the way President Obama did four years ago after a listless first debate appearance.

Republicans really have to hope for the latter, but they shouldn’t get their hopes up.
 

turk

turk
...not sure how many there are at this point...plus with all the shit going on...if you still even consider dump a viable candidate...well...
 

lwien

Well-Known Member
...not sure how many there are at this point...plus with all the shit going on...if you still even consider dump a viable candidate...well...

The other thing that these debates "can" do is to motivate those who ARE decided to go out and vote.

The way I see it, this election is not going to be decided by how many people like Trump versus how many people like Hillary, but rather how many of these people are actually going to get off their asses and vote.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Trump May Be Clinton’s Perfect Opponent
by John Stoehr
September 28, 2016 11:16 AM

I am skeptical of claims that Hillary Clinton should have a commanding lead against Republican rival Donald Trump. He’s an inept candidate and an incontrovertible buffoon, critics say. Clinton should be crushing him, but isn’t. Why? What’s wrong with her?

Detractors point to her defeat by Barack Obama in the 2008 Democratic primaries. If there’s a way to lose, they say, Clinton and her team will find it. To make a more forceful pitch to the white working class men favoring her opponent, she should appear “more relatable,” “less wonky.”

There’s no small amount of armchair quarterbacking here, nor small amount of sexism. More relevant to my point, there’s no small amount of obliviousness to the power of polarization.

As I noted in US News & World Report Tuesday, the Republican Party could have nominated a hamster, and the base of the party would have rallied around the rodent for the GOP’s sake. With that unity, opinion surveys would predictably reflect a very close race.

But let’s remember that Clinton lost to President Obama by a hair in 2008 (about 40,000 votes). This year, she bested Bernie Sanders by 4 million votes. She won about 2 million more votes than Trump did during the GOP primaries. She won more votes, in fact, than any Democrat since the 1960s, when the parties began taking primaries seriously. She did that even though 2016’s primary was not nearly as competitive as 2008’s. And she and Sanders won together as many votes as all 17 Republicans did.

Even before Monday night, when Clinton handed Trump his ass during the first presidential debate in front of 81 million Americans, the record was clear: She knows how to do this. Mind you, this isn’t the empty praise of a partisan. This is noting a record of accomplishment by a public figure in which we can have faith.

I would also note that many of her liberal critics are older white men. This is not to say such critics have nothing valuable to contribute. It’s to say they may not have the life experience to recognize and understand the challenges faced by the first women to be nominated by a major political party. And it’s to say that these critics have something in common with Donald Trump.

Which brings me to my next point.

Trump may be Clinton’s perfect opponent.

Clinton is the first to admit she’s not a great politician. She doesn’t have the natural gifts of her husband. She doesn’t possess the inspirational oratory of Obama. But even if she had those gifts, she may not benefit from them. Despite many benchmarks of progress women have achieved in this country, they are still suspect when seeking power. If she were like Bill or Barack, she’d suffer for it.

So what does she do? She does what all pioneers have done. She has prepared more than anyone, mastered strategy more than anyone, learned from her mistakes better than anyone. Indeed, she had to, because for a women to seek the power of the highest office, she must prove she’s twice as worthy as her male counterpart who may or may not feel entitled to that power by dint of being a man.

Trump is one such man. If Monday made anything clear, it was that he bullshitted his way to the GOP nomination. At exam time, he wanted an ‘A’ without having done his homework. He’s pretty much the opposite of what most Americans consider deserving.

The debates revealed another level of entitlement. He doesn’t have respect for any authority higher than himself. Most Americans defer to some kind of higher authority — whether it be the rule of law, facts, or God — but Trump does not. There is nothing, not even the fact that he supported the US invasion of Iraq, that supersedes his ego.

Perhaps this is due to his wealth. Perhaps this is due to his celebrity. I don’t care. What’s clear is that he operates on the margins of fact-based reality, a place where he doesn’t need to win arguments to achieve his goals. He merely bulldozes his way.

I suspect Clinton never had that luxury. Like most successful women who are challenged in ways most successful men are never challenged, she has learned the value of humility, and the purpose of a higher calling — to go where no woman has gone before.

I’m heading toward hagiography, I know. I don’t mean to. I think Clinton is a political animal: ambitious, arrogant, pandering, willing to bend the truth and shift positions when convenient, all of that.

My point is that a lifetime of such challenges has prepared her to face a person who most embodies all the challenges she has faced. And she revealed Trump to be exactly what Trump is.

An empty vessel, a shell of a man.
 

Baron23

Well-Known Member
@KimDracula doesn't need to point fingers and divide the electorate. They've already been divided for a very long time and that division is more clearly defined today than ever before.

To me, there is a very clear mindset on how conservatives view the world and how liberals view the world, and they are radically different from one another. And, btw, this holds true for things way outside of just politics.

Its an oversimplification. Its divisive language, serves no purpose except to alienate us from one another, does not reflect that views span a continuum across a spectrum, and does not contribute to a real dialog on the issues.

I'm not going for this categorization and name calling with Kim and I'm not going to do it with you either.

Cheers
 

Silat

When the Facts Change, I Change My Mind.
Again:

"The FBI has concluded that Hillary Clinton was careless, but she did not break any laws by using a series of private email servers when she was Secretary of State, settling a major cloud hanging over her presidential campaign even though it will remain a nagging Republican line of attack.

“Although we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information,” said FBI director James Comey, in a lengthy statement explaining the FBI's investigation."
 

yogoshio

Annoying Libertarian
You are so stuck that no charges meant no crimes, and that's simply not true.

Comey admitted to multiple violations and criminal activity in his report, but the message you copied lists the one reason there weren't charges: Comey looked for intent. That's the only thing he used as a reason to not recommend charges.

Somewhere farther back is an article listing multiple other people who are in prison for truly accidental mishandling of info with no negative intent, and they dealt with much smaller issues than SoS. And they didn't lie about it either, full admissions.

As I have said before, a wife beater will only be charged if the abused wife presses them. It doesn't mean her black eye wasn't a crime, it just means no one is pressing charges.
 
Last edited:

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Call Donald Trump What He Is: A Thief
by Michael O’Hare
September 28, 2016 1:54 PM

Trump is running, in part, on his incredible business technique. This is already puzzling, because if he had just put his inheritance into an index fund and gone out wenching, he would be richer than he is now. But in any case, I don’t think we’ve seen the right summary of this technique, and it would be good if Democrats could tie it up into a package that could be referenced, repeatedly, in simple terms. What Trump mainly does for a living is to steal; he’s not a businessman, he’s a goniff, of a fairly standard type.

Stealing is the golden thread through his whole career. First, he regularly stiffs suppliers and contractors. Not paying someone for work you arranged to buy is just stealing, no matter that you hide behind lawyers the victims can’t afford. *

Second, he revels in his bankruptcies: in a bankruptcy, a court gives you permission not to pay your debts. Not to pay your debts. The idea is to let someone who has had a piece of bad luck to start again, not to give a rich investor the chance to repeatedly stiff lenders, investors and creditors. First time, maybe misfortune; second and third looks like borrowing with intent to skip. Not everything legal is right: Trump’s use of bankruptcy as a standard business tool is stealing.

Finally, he doesn’t pay taxes. Someone pays his taxes, so there’s a street for customers to get to his properties, a fire department that protects his buildings, a court for him to sue people in. But not paying your own taxes is stealing, in this case from other taxpayers. Voters, do you really want to elect the guy who’s had his hand in your pocket for decades?

*afterthought, 27/IX: To be fair, Trump has a defense against this one, though he hasn’t used it: “Those people all did bad work! I just have terrible judgment of people and talent, and I keep making bad hires again and again.”
 

Silat

When the Facts Change, I Change My Mind.
You are so stuck that no charges meant no crimes, and that's simply not true.

Comey admitted to multiple violations and criminal activity in his report, but the message you copied lists the one reason there weren't charges: Comey looked for intent. That's the only thing he used as a reason to not recommend charges.

Somewhere farther back is an article listing multiple other people who are in prison for truly accidental mishandling of info with no negative intent, and they dealt with much smaller issues than SoS. And they didn't lie about it either, full admissions.

As I have said before, a wife beater will only be charged if the abused wife presses them. It doesn't mean her black eye wasn't a crime, it just means no one is pressing charges.

The only one stuck is you. :)
 
Silat,

Silat

When the Facts Change, I Change My Mind.
Silat,

KimDracula

Well-Known Member
Its an oversimplification. Its divisive language, serves no purpose except to alienate us from one another, does not reflect that views span a continuum across a spectrum, and does not contribute to a real dialog on the issues.

I'm not going for this categorization and name calling with Kim and I'm not going to do it with you either.

Cheers

Naming Conservatives is neither divisive nor alienating in this context. I was characterizing the "I did build it" point-of-view that Conservatives in this country (which I said only to be clear I wasn't trying to say something about Conservative policy as it exists elsewhere because there are differences and I've only lived here) tend to favor. Liberals tend to see things from a more community-based perspective. Let us not be so prone to offense that simply naming something is thought to be counterproductive. I wasn't ascribing anything to American Conservatism that American Conservatives wouldn't themselves claim. "Categorization and name calling?" Categorization does serve a purpose, after all.
 
Top Bottom