Driving whilst high

[EverythingsHazy]

Ugh.
Again with the emotional crap.
Why cant you accept these drugs have intoxicating effects?

its well sourced that sleep deprivation can cause impairment worse than alcohol.
yet you probably shrug off sleepy drivers too.

Look if you've never smoked a cigarette in your life and you smoke 2 or 3 they have a huge head rush effect with a couch lock and dizziness to boot.

Never tried smoking in high school? the first few times are really hard hitting before you know your limit or gain a tolerance.

I know for a fact I wouldnt be able to drive and would be impaired from large amounts of cigarette smoke, because I dont smoke, but I dont go guilt tripping the people who do it, because I know they have built tolerance and trust they know how the drug effects them.

I don't trust anyone's judgement on their abilities while impaired. Not with my life, anyway. Idc if they want to risk killing themselves.

And while coffee and cigarettes can make you feel a bit different, they don't get you high or stoned. If you could get stoned on cigs people would instead of risking getting hailed for weed. Weed impairs you more and is more fun as a result. If you chain smoke anything, you'll get a buzz from carcinogens and oxygen deprivation, but that isn't good enough to get stoned.

I don't think you should drive sleepy either, but that doesn't mean I think you should drive high. Both shouldnt be done. Just because people break rules and do stupid things sometimes and get away with it, doesn't mean they should be allowed to by the law.

 

[theCerberus]

ugh. yes there is a high to caffeine and nicotine. but usually only in those without tolerance who use high amounts.
these effects can lead to impairment.

dont believe me? guess you never got caught with a pack of cigs and had to smoke it all.

head rush, euphoria, dizziness, couch lock, nausea.
never got "all tweaked out" from that first all nighter studying with coffee?

they dont do nothing. its a high. and after a tolerance builds the effects are diminished and not as impairing.

the point is, know your limits, know the effects before you drive. etc. but this 0 tolerance is not the real world.
the real world accepts 0.05 BAC. the real world accepts truckers getting coffee/taking caffeine pills to keep them up when they are sleepy, and realizes there's a limit to how tired you can drive. the real world accepts cigarette smoking while driving and trusts they drivers arent overdoing it.

and the point of saying sleep deprived driving is more dangerous than alcohol is to show that even something as simple as tiredness has its limits and can be impairing.

By your logic anything boring you on the radio should be banned because its droning and tiring and thus impairing.

 

[ZC]

There's a disconnect here between the question posed by the title of the thread and what people are arguing.

Thecerberus brought up a good point: There is a legal limit for alcohol. Driving sober in the eyes of the law does not mean driving with 0% of a substance in your system.

Going by that logic, you could potentially vape a certain amount and be "perfectly safe" or at least in line with the rules concerning alcohol.

But that's not what the thread is titled. The thread is titled "driving whilst high". High implies impairment, just like drunk implies impairment.

If you're a heavy user and you take a few hits, you might not be high. You might just feel a slight buzz and not really be impaired at all. The same way it's typically understood that having 1 beer might not impair a drinker, you might be perfectly fine to drive.

But that's not the question asked. The question was are you comfortable driving high, as in not just driving with some THC in your system, but in an actual altered state of mind.

Cigarretes and coffee aren't really in play here, because even if you "can" get high and impaired on those substances, the vast majority of people simply don't, and it isn't the intended use of those substances. If someone did manage to get themselves high/impaired on either substance, then yeah, they wouldn't be fit to drive either. But that is not a very likely situation, so I can't really see how it's relevant here.

As for this thread being emotional: Of course it is. It's about safety. Those that don't feel high driving is safe will take it seriously, and that gets emotional, and those that do feel comfortable driving high will inevitably feel attacked by those uncomfortable with it. It's impossible to take a subject both so serious and personal and remove emotion from it completely. We can remain civil, we are after all part of the same community, but removing emotion isn't going to happen.

It's also hard to talk about this in a purely scientific way because the data just isn't there. The legality of weed means the studies for this kind of thing are few and far between, which means we have to rely quite a bit on anecdotes and half-baked studies.

 

[archangelz001]

Just because you don't "feel" impaired doesn't mean you aren't. I microdose to "effect". I never get "baked" or wasted (except by accident. ) But the effect I'm looking for is to have my consciousness slightly "altered", and when that happens (3 ten second hits with a vaporizer will do it for me) I have to admit I'm slightly impaired. That's the point!! And I do it on a daily basis. Am I still safe to drive? Yes, if I'm careful. If necessary I will bring myself down with a few hits of a high CBD strain. I try to be responsible and apply the golden rule.

@ZC, stop making sense. My head hurts

 

[WakeAndVape]

It's also hard to talk about this in a purely scientific way because the data just isn't there. The legality of weed means the studies for this kind of thing are few and far between, which means we have to rely quite a bit on anecdotes and half-baked studies.

This is the only part I disagree with of a great post. WE are the science.
High is high, weather your a little high or fucked up, different degrees do need to be taken into consideration.

Besides morality, there is little to no science supporting the dangers.

Not ONE person on this thread have reported having or knowing someone who had an accident because of cannabis impairment.

The science is there, but emotions often molest reason.

Again...great post!

 

[ZC]

@WakeAndVape

Yeah, we're gonna disagree on this one.

I mean you can call whatever you want science, but there's still nothing scientific about it. We aren't science, we're anecdotes. And anecdotes are not evidence!

There isn't enough scientific evidence supporting the dangers, nor is there enough scientific evidence supporting those who claim it's perfectly safe, because there aren't proper studies being done. The science isn't there, if it is please point us to some studies.

The fact that we don't personally know someone in this type of accident can be summed up to a lot of variables, from the fact that much fewer people consume cannabis daily, to people maybe being less likely to attempt to drive under its influence, to a thousand other factors. Which is why scientific research with controlled variables is needed.

It'll also help in a couple of years to look at crash data for those states that have legalized.

 

[Vapor_Eyes]

There's a disconnect here between the question posed by the title of the thread and what people are arguing.

Thecerberus brought up a good point: There is a legal limit for alcohol. Driving sober in the eyes of the law does not mean driving with 0% of a substance in your system.

Going by that logic, you could potentially vape a certain amount and be "perfectly safe" or at least in line with the rules concerning alcohol.

But that's not what the thread is titled. The thread is titled "driving whilst high". High implies impairment, just like drunk implies impairment.

If you're a heavy user and you take a few hits, you might not be high. You might just feel a slight buzz and not really be impaired at all. The same way it's typically understood that having 1 beer might not impair a drinker, you might be perfectly fine to drive.

But that's not the question asked. The question was are you comfortable driving high, as in not just driving with some THC in your system, but in an actual altered state of mind.

Cigarretes and coffee aren't really in play here, because even if you "can" get high and impaired on those substances, the vast majority of people simply don't, and it isn't the intended use of those substances. If someone did manage to get themselves high/impaired on either substance, then yeah, they wouldn't be fit to drive either. But that is not a very likely situation, so I can't really see how it's relevant here.

As for this thread being emotional: Of course it is. It's about safety. Those that don't feel high driving is safe will take it seriously, and that gets emotional, and those that do feel comfortable driving high will inevitably feel attacked by those uncomfortable with it. It's impossible to take a subject both so serious and personal and remove emotion from it completely. We can remain civil, we are after all part of the same community, but removing emotion isn't going to happen.

It's also hard to talk about this in a purely scientific way because the data just isn't there. The legality of weed means the studies for this kind of thing are few and far between, which means we have to rely quite a bit on anecdotes and half-baked studies.

I didn't read the title like that at all. I feel that's being a bit nick picky with semantics. I would never recommend someone drive after using cannabis if they felt they were impaired. I would never drive in that condition either.

Each person in the video from CNN earlier in this thread drove perfectly fine until they had smoked a fairly large amount of cannabis, more than they would have normally consumed. And all of them said they would not have driven in that condition. The lightweights had to smoke almost a gram to be noticeably impaired!

This zero tolerance policy is unrealistic and hypocritical in the context of how alcohol is treated, even though it is much more dangerous than cannabis. We already agree as a culture that it is okay to be in a slightly altered state while driving as long as it is done responsibly.

All of this talk about studies is pointless. We don't need studies to know drunk driving is dangerous, there are unfortunately countless real world incidents proving this. Accidents attributed solely to cannabis use are rare, and I'd be willing to bet the vast majority, if not all, of those accidents were caused by irresponsible use of cannabis.

 

[MoltenTiger]

Some impairment during driving is allowed because everyone is different.
I can be extremely impaired and still drive better than my 87 Y.O Grandfather.
There is a measurable (albeit somewhat flawed) way to measure alcohol intoxication - and even this can be legally (judged by a police officer) pushed beyond the limit.
I've been pulled over by a tailing police car with eyes as red as the devil and a fresh half ounce sitting next me and was put under the same judgement "explain to me why I shouldn't fine you $140 right now" for a falsified version of events where I'd apparently broken the law (for not stopping at an intersection). I was blitzed but could easily talk my way out of that one. Didn't even get brethod, I was allowed on my way because I was deemed in the right and ultimately safe to drive.
Having that encounter with a cop, a professional involved in the details of accidents, said a lot to me about at least that one officers opinion on a substance he can't properly relate to.
I'll never believe anyone who says it's an issue, maybe for them it is.
I'll gladly accept their excuse but for me, unless I'm borderline asleep from the stone, I'll feel safe enough to drive and will do so.
I know I'm impaired, but I'm also a trained, professional driver.
I'd be for a stoned driving license over a blanket ban.

 

[kellya86]

I'm up for a stoned license. That's a great idea. If you can pass your test stoned, you can drive stoned. I'd pay 200 quid to retake my test high. Actually come to think of it I'm sure I passed my car and bike test under the influence anyway.

 

[Alan Partridge]

Me, I do not enjoy driving high in the slightest. I feel too on edge and paranoid. But I've got a mate who drives Uber, he's got a 4.9 rating and he's high the whole time. Everyone's different.

It was mentioned before but here's the Top Gear video of an 'experiment' where the driver performed better after a spliff. Not my words, but the words of Top Gear magazine

 

[His_Highness]

I was working a stressful project and hadn't gotten a decent night's sleep in 4-5 days when a friend called to say he had access to some new, really good MJ but I had to give him the money ASAP. It had been dry at the time so at lunch I ran out to the ATM and then drove to his house. Was so tired I ran a red light and got t-boned. I was lucky to have lived...the car looked like an accordion that was stomped by an angry hoard. MJ caused that accident! Ok - that's bullshit to blame MJ .

The above is my way of agreeing with those who say there are worse conditions to drive in than being high...like driving sleep deprived or drunk. BUT...rationalizing that its ok to drive high because driving sleep deprived isn't illegal or because driving drunk is so much worse is also bullshit. Comparisons between different things that adversely affect driving and comparing them to driving high as a means to justifying driving high isn't a good argument. Two wrongs and all that...... A better argument to driving high would be the 'I have been driving high forever and have no issues because I'm good at it and have a high tolerance'. At least this argument isn't saying it ok to drive impaired because you're less impaired than when drunk.

As I mentioned earlier - after 4 decades I don't drive high anymore. If I get buzzed I wait at least an hour before getting behind the wheel and that's if I wasn't at level 10 to begin with. Everyone has to ride in the car with their own conscience and possibly a significant other. My conscience is a unforgiving bitch and unless I'm willing to ask the significant other if they mind me driving them around high I am making a decision for them I'm not entitled to. These are my own opinions and how I approach this part of my life now .... and I don't have the right to demand anyone else follow them.

 

[Joel W.]

@Alan Partridge , great video. My only issue with any test like that is I usually always get better, the more I practice.

Anyone remember Dr. Jonny fever drinking on the air, and then getting better/faster reaction times the more he drank during his test. Talk about sending the wrong message.

 

[kellya86]

@Alan Partridge. Thanks for finding that. I metioned earlier in a post but never bothered to get the link.

 

[grokit]

Honestly, I think the main issue--for me--would be getting high while driving. I am one that likes and takes large hits by rote, sipping does not come naturally to me. Occasionally if I take a nice big hit my vision will go dark for a few seconds kinda like a blackout, we used to call this a "head rush" in my younger days. I shudder to think what could happen if I had one of these while behind the wheel, hurtling down the highway at 60 mph. So while I don't make a habit of driving high, it doesn't really bother me either. But I do draw the line at doing it in a moving car (also potential legal issues for the driver, so even as a passenger).

 

[killick]

I certainly do not drive high, but I do drive medicated. I have a couple of strains I reserve for alertness, and tend to refill a stem every hour or so with one of these strains (Elevare or Luminarium). This gives me a bit of a break from driving to stretch and walk and hopefully avoid the nasties that come with a long drive, and vaping helps with the pain from driving, as well as the other pain that is just there.

I know I appreciate the scenery much more while medicated, and also find that my driving has become much less aggressive, which was quite habitual.

If I *really* want to drive around high as a mofo I load up a frankenblend of a few of the more heavy brain-y strain-y's and head out on the ATV and roam some forest trails. The problem with this is that sometimes it's a bit difficult to remember how to get home... I do have a fire starter and emergency thingies, as well as 4 of 5 bars of phone service, so it's not really all that bad, especially if you plan for it

 

[MoltenTiger]

A stoned license should require an accompanying license held for 12 months, a virtual reality practical test and also a real world test with an accompanying instructor.
It should be applicable for any license, not just driving.

I also agree with @grokit in that taking hits while driving is a different matter, furthermore I wouldn't be opposed to any similarly distractive activities being made illegal.
I've eaten sushi whilst driving and would judge that as dangerous as smoking a bong whilst driving. Both activities require too much concentration to be safe and I doubt I'd do either again. They literally feel illegal because it's such a blatant disregard to safety, if something out of your control happens you can't react.
Blazed driving without distraction is not even remotely as dangerous, but it depends on the person. We should have the opportunity to prove competence. This makes a lot of sense considering the difficulties in measuring level of intoxication with cannabinoids. If you fuck up and cause an accident, there's usually more than one telltale reason, and usually it's because you fucked up and not just because you happen to be high. It's not inherently inhibitive. But it's vital you can recognise your own limit of inhibition whilst driving otherwise you're a danger in any state. Official documents to back up your claims should be welcomed by all.

 

[RUDE BOY]

You can actually get a ticket for distracted driving while eating a Big Mac behind the wheel where I live.

It's hard to believe that a few years ago I could drive legally when I had a morphine pump in my side and was taking handfuls of morphine sulfate,methadone and Marinol along with a couple benzo's everyday, but if I just vape now I'm illegal. I no longer take all this crap and only vape although I still have access to all the pills if for any fucked up reason i'd need 'em again the, pump is gone for good.

Then again i also still have an active script for Marinol(don't take it since it's kinda useless) so I'm not sure if a roadside test for marijuana is valid for me or not.

All that said; where i live if you don't drive you pretty much stay home since there is no public transportation of any kind so if your a medical user your gonna have to drive after vaping just to do the things you need to to stay alive. I never drive Baked and I never vape while driving but since I have to vape a little with my morning coffee in-order to function with pick-me-ups every few hours I always have herb in my system and thank God i'm under it's influence 'cause driving in extreme pain while feeling like you gonna puke is a lot less safe as far as I can see.


And Damn-it why can't I get high from coffee and cigarettes? Gonna make a pot and grab a pack and go watch a little UEFA Champions league action and see if i can get a buzz.

...

 

[His_Highness]

@RUDE BOY - If you want to get high from cigarettes you might be better off getting some Red Man chewing tobacco and some spearmint gum. It's this nasty concoction that got me high initially and into nicotine addiction and finally cigarettes when I was in the Navy. If the chewing tobacco doesn't do it you can drink from the spit cup

BTW - Just kidding....

 

[RUDE BOY]

I live in a Land O' Rednecks so I got to experience the puking sick head swimming feeling from trying a little "chaw" in middle school, never saw that as getting high but i was already Drinking alcohol, doing shrooms and smoking herb by then.

 

[Fat Freddy]

I would be willing to bet that most of us believe it's RELATIVELY safe to drive while
high....but at the same time it would not surprise me to learn that most of us also believe
it's relatively UNSAFE for others to drive while they're high!

 

[JCat]

I want to pipe in with my position on this ... if you are a medical user how are you supposed to be expected to get around if you can't drive? There are so many prescription medications with labels warning against driving, operating heavy machinery, etc. until one is accustomed to the effects ... really don't feel its any worse for cannabis. (I vape before leaving for business meetings with executives ... and I vape before leaving the house for a while ... and if I'm going to be gone in excess of 2-3 hours I bring a vape with me generally pre-packed and sometimes a jar to re-pack if I'm going to be gone even longer)

Do I get blasted and drive? No! Do I make sure I have sufficient THC/CBD in my system to keep me "normal" and my symptoms at bay ... YES!

Do you think users that require medication for physical or mental disabilities should have their licenses taken away as well? Or are there acceptable levels of medication in your system? (I realize that a lack of research in the area of cannabis make these limits difficult to determine, however, I really don't see what's wrong with the common-sense roadside sobriety test ... ie. touch your nose, walk on a line, be able to have a civil/normal conversation, etc.)

Anyways ... not trying to upset people ... but some of the comments I've read in this thread have seemed like they border on ignorant ... it's easy to be on your "high horse" about this when you are a recreational user that doesn't depend on it to remain a functional member of society, and to be able to keep providing for their wife and kids ...

 

[EverythingsHazy]

Anyways ... not trying to upset people ... but some of the comments I've read in this thread have seemed like they border on ignorant ... it's easy to be on your "high horse" about this when you are a recreational user that doesn't depend on it to remain a functional member of society, and to be able to keep providing for their wife and kids ...

Do you think users that require medication for physical or mental disabilities should have their licenses taken away as well?

***Before you read any further, I want to say the rest of this post is not meant to attack anyone or insult anyone. Just trying to clear some stuff up.***

It's not being on a high horse. If you have a medical condition, and need impairing medication, you should be prohibited from driving. Yea, it sucks. Having health issues sucks. At least there is medication to be had. Some medicines say specifically not to drive while on them. I would prefer if it was illegal to drive high, if that was reliably testable. I don't doubt that some people can drive very well while high, but I don't think that the majority of cannabis users fall into that group.

Also, a lot of people who get noticeable medical benefits form cannabis use, don't need it at all, let alone need to be high 100% of the time. Sure it might be a bit more uncomfortable being sober, but it's usually very doable, regardless of it being pleasant or not.

Some people definitely might, but the most extreme case I've ever heard of, was the girl who would have constant seizures until she took extract made from "Charlotte's Web" cannabis, which is a predominantly CBD strain. Otherwise, I haven't heard of many people who function relatively normally while high, that would experience

I am not saying some people don't need it much more than others, and more often / at higher doses. I am saying that those people are such a tiny minority, especially when you factor in the issue of not all of them being good drivers while high, that allowing it (high driving) for anyone is a bit ridiculous. Furthermore, if you don't fall into the tiny group that is people who need to be high 100% of the time, and who drive well while high, there is no reason you can't just deal with being sober for a few hours.

Sidenote:
Using the term "medicated" instead of high, comes across as just wordplay, if you aren't talking about non-psychoactive cannabinoid extracts. If you vape some pure CBD oil, you are medicated. If you vape some bud, or do a dab, you are high. It doesn't matter if the reason you are high is because consuming cannabis provides medical benefits for you. You are still high. Imagine how it would sound if people who drank to loosen up and not be as shy (social anxiety), or to help them sleep, and referred to it as getting medicated instead of buzzed/drunk. Just because there are fewer negative effects from cannabis, doesn't mean it isn't still high inducing.

 

[archangelz001]

***Before you read any further, I want to say the rest of this post is not meant to attack anyone or insult anyone. Just trying to clear some stuff up.***

It's not being on a high horse. If you have a medical condition, and need impairing medication, you should be prohibited from driving. Yea, it sucks. Having health issues sucks. At least there is medication to be had. Some medicines say specifically not to drive while on them. I would prefer if it was illegal to drive high, if that was reliably testable. I don't doubt that some people can drive very well while high, but I don't think that the majority of cannabis users fall into that group.

Also, a lot of people who get noticeable medical benefits form cannabis use, don't need it at all, let alone need to be high 100% of the time. Sure it might be a bit more uncomfortable being sober, but it's usually very doable, regardless of it being pleasant or not.

Some people definitely might, but the most extreme case I've ever heard of, was the girl who would have constant seizures until she took extract made from "Charlotte's Web" cannabis, which is a predominantly CBD strain. Otherwise, I haven't heard of many people who function relatively normally while high, that would experience

I am not saying some people don't need it much more than others, and more often / at higher doses. I am saying that those people are such a tiny minority, especially when you factor in the issue of not all of them being good drivers while high, that allowing it (high driving) for anyone is a bit ridiculous. Furthermore, if you don't fall into the tiny group that is people who need to be high 100% of the time, and who drive well while high, there is no reason you can't just deal with being sober for a few hours.

Sidenote:
Using the term "medicated" instead of high, comes across as just wordplay, if you aren't talking about non-psychoactive cannabinoid extracts. If you vape some pure CBD oil, you are medicated. If you vape some bud, or do a dab, you are high. It doesn't matter if the reason you are high is because consuming cannabis provides medical benefits for you. You are still high. Imagine how it would sound if people who drank to loosen up and not be as shy (social anxiety), or to help them sleep, and referred to it as getting medicated instead of buzzed/drunk. Just because there are fewer negative effects from cannabis, doesn't mean it isn't still high inducing.

We all have opinions and judgements. If you think medicated is wordplay I invite you to educate yourself about the unique properties of cannabis as a medicine. The number of studies showing it's beneficial effects for many symptoms and conditions is really quite remarkable. The Internet has a wealth of information. This collective in California sets the standard - https://wamm.org

 

[His_Highness]

***Before you read any further, I want to say the rest of this post is not meant to attack anyone or insult anyone. Just trying to clear some stuff up.***

It's not being on a high horse. If you have a medical condition, and need impairing medication, you should be prohibited from driving. Yea, it sucks. Having health issues sucks. At least there is medication to be had. Some medicines say specifically not to drive while on them. I would prefer if it was illegal to drive high, if that was reliably testable. I don't doubt that some people can drive very well while high, but I don't think that the majority of cannabis users fall into that group.

Also, a lot of people who get noticeable medical benefits form cannabis use, don't need it at all, let alone need to be high 100% of the time. Sure it might be a bit more uncomfortable being sober, but it's usually very doable, regardless of it being pleasant or not.

Some people definitely might, but the most extreme case I've ever heard of, was the girl who would have constant seizures until she took extract made from "Charlotte's Web" cannabis, which is a predominantly CBD strain. Otherwise, I haven't heard of many people who function relatively normally while high, that would experience

I am not saying some people don't need it much more than others, and more often / at higher doses. I am saying that those people are such a tiny minority, especially when you factor in the issue of not all of them being good drivers while high, that allowing it (high driving) for anyone is a bit ridiculous. Furthermore, if you don't fall into the tiny group that is people who need to be high 100% of the time, and who drive well while high, there is no reason you can't just deal with being sober for a few hours.

Sidenote:
Using the term "medicated" instead of high, comes across as just wordplay, if you aren't talking about non-psychoactive cannabinoid extracts. If you vape some pure CBD oil, you are medicated. If you vape some bud, or do a dab, you are high. It doesn't matter if the reason you are high is because consuming cannabis provides medical benefits for you. You are still high. Imagine how it would sound if people who drank to loosen up and not be as shy (social anxiety), or to help them sleep, and referred to it as getting medicated instead of buzzed/drunk. Just because there are fewer negative effects from cannabis, doesn't mean it isn't still high inducing.

Now you've done it.....I've always been curious about what is in 'Pandora's Box'. Now that you've opened it I may get to see what's in it first hand

 

[CarolKing]

I'm not sure what medical condition our friends on FC have for sure. Some have shared their medical issues with the community. Some live in medical states and some don't. Many who are members are recreation users. There seems to be a large cross section of issues and ages. I've heard anything from the AIDS virus to multiple sclerosis that some of our members suffer from. I take what they say as their word and it sounds like it's been a blessing to many.

I hope there will be a test soon for cannabis because many people are getting DUI even if they didn't use cannabis that day. Again folks will have to make the decision for themselves whether or not they feel they can drive without feeling impaired.

@EverythingsHazy it did sound a bit attacking even though you stated in the beginning that it wasn't meant that way. How do you know who needs cannabis and who doesn't. You made a lot of judgements in your post.

EDIT
I don't know how anyone can assume that many that use cannabis for their medical condition don't really need it.