On Patents and Induction Heaters

[invertedisdead]

@invertedisdead - that patent was granted - as usual, certain claims, rarely the whole of it.
But to be clear, I stated 'stolen tech'. That began at the non-disclosure agreement. I pointed out the patent to zero in on the tech I am referring to

Respectfully, I just don't see anything denoting a granted patent.

It's only been published for evaluation in the public square - that's us.

Anyways I'm certainly not an expert in patent law, but as I stated above, FC member @Pipes has the prior art in this space. In fact the cup in the patent publication is nearly identical to the induction heater in a cup in Pipes original thread.

What is Prior Art? - Henry Patent Law Firm

If you’ve encountered patents, chances are you’ve heard the term “prior art.” It’s one of the most common reasons that patent applications are rejected by the patent office, which makes it one of the most challenging hurdles to clear in getting a patent granted. Prior art can be used to show...

henry.law

"WHAT COUNTS AS PRIOR ART?

...But the range of information that counts as prior art is much broader than issued patents and commercial products. Generally speaking, prior art arises when someone has either made an idea available to the public, or filed a patent application that was eventually published or issued as a patent.

To list some common examples, prior art can include the following:

1. A product that was available for sale
2. Commercial use of the invention
3. Articles, publications, or journals (printed or electronic)
4. Presentation at a public event (a trade show, conference, etc.)
5. Public knowledge or use of the invention (e.g. demonstration)
6. A previously-filed patent application (assuming the previous application eventually becomes a published application or an issued patent)

What examples 1-5 have in common: They were publicly available or publicly disclosed. It doesn’t matter whether the information is broadly accessible on the internet — factors like target audience, language, number of copies made, and geographic location are irrelevant for publications. To use an unlikely example, a high school textbook published only in Kazakhstan could still count as prior art."

 

[scy123]

that patent was granted - as usual, certain claims, rarely the whole of it.
But to be clear, I stated 'stolen tech'. That began at the non-disclosure agreement. I pointed out the patent to zero in on the tech I am referring to.

DynaVap has ZERO granted patents related to anything about induction heaters.

Edit: also if their was some non-disclosure agreement that was violated that is between them, not just some person to buttt in with a verdict.

Edit: again just to be clear. This is the patent https://patents.google.com/patent/US20210014941A1/en?inventor=George+R.+Breiwa,+III

Filled 4 years after portable induction heaters entered public domain. Status - Pending

 

[TommyDee]

I will state again - The tech stolen is from the Orion. No other intrusion detection circuit was independently developed before Dynatec went to China. The patent shows clearly the tech being used - the patent shows clearly that the patent was filed to protect the tech.

People hostile to patent law are not worth engaging. Again, this is about stolen tech, not patent law. You made it about patent law @kel . If you want to tell me how wrong I am, then yes, I invite you to get it from the horses mouth as @VGOODIEZ offered to do or shut the fuck up about my moral compass. I already know I am standing on firm ground and you simply don't want to hear it.

And just because we interact among a den of thieves doesn't make us all thieves. I don't buy shit from any of these other outfits for exactly that reason. George has clearly stated he makes stems intricate to keep people from copying them verbatim.

 

[scy123]

I don't think you provide enough proof is the problem. If you make a claim, at least have solid proof to back it up, otherwise it's just something you made up.

You didn't even provide the specific patent when asked, just told us to ask George about it? and you didn't even know that that patent was never granted and thought it was for some reason. And then try to blow it off as some inside non-disclosure violation?

So much questions we have and so much you don't provide that turns out to be true.

A patent that is patenting something that has been public domain for 4 years and so highly questionable, I don't even think that patent will get approved. It's even a cup like Pipes originally designed.

EDIT- Also a switch is just a common thing everyone uses. That patent also list boxes/lids/pcbs/leds/batteries. Now all of us can't use those either!

I can buy a reed switch on amazon for $1 a piece btw

 

[kel]

I will state again - The tech stolen is from the Orion. No other intrusion detection circuit was independently developed before Dynatec went to China. The patent shows clearly the tech being used - the patent shows clearly that the patent was filed to protect the tech.

People hostile to patent law are not worth engaging. Again, this is about stolen tech, not patent law. You made it about patent law @kel . If you want to tell me how wrong I am, then yes, I invite you to get it from the horses mouth as @VGOODIEZ offered to do or shut the fuck up about my moral compass. I already know I am standing on firm ground and you simply don't want to hear it.

And just because we interact among a den of thieves doesn't make us all thieves. I don't buy shit from any of these other outfits for exactly that reason. George has clearly stated he makes stems intricate to keep people from copying them verbatim.

You say I am not worth engaging... yet here you are losing your cool engaging with me

Your ignorance of how patents work, and what constitutes stealing, is laughable, on a patent that isn't even a patent yet no less... you haven't read any of the helpful links you have been sent or actually read any of the posts many people have posted trying to help you understand.

You're just determined that you are right and everyone else is wrong and that everyone else is a thief for either creating an IH or for buying an IH that isn't the Orion and you are a saint or something?

I would love to take a look round your stuff and see what stuff you *will* have that violates some patent law somewhere, or something that is essentially stolen work, because there will be hundreds of examples in even a modest home. Given your corporate leanings, I bet you use Windows don't you - go on - tell me I'm wrong?

Anyway, yeah, sure... you go ahead, destroy the Dynavap community and all the businesses of all the different IH creators for your moral stance - I hope it brings you satisfaction and happiness.

Well done

p.s. the only reason I have replied is because I said I was done and you followed that up with telling me to shut up, so if I didn't reply it would look like your attempt to control me somehow worked - you must think I was born yesterday

 

[TommyDee]

I invited anyone truly interested to attend TeaTime and ask the question or be present for the reply. Sunday's 6:30PM pacific time on Instagram - I've already seen the response as many other have. It's the best proof I can provide as nothing else will matter to anyone.

I made the personal decision to not purchase something I want because I have knowledge of its origin and posted my choice, my lament. That is the statement I made.

@kel owns this thread for the purpose of destroying the established reputation of patent law by misrepresenting it egregiously with misinformation - I am participating to tell you why I can't buy a UFO induction heater on moral grounds. If you, anyone, has a similar constitution can confirm this information in a number of ways which I have provided. Anything made of it beyond this is by people with different agendas. I have no interest in protecting patent law with someone admittedly hostile to patent law. Knock yourself out. @kel - you asked what tech, that I provided as did others who bothered to read the published patent application instead of simply stirring the pot.

And I do thank @VGOODIEZ to get to the bottom of this. I know what I've been told by principles. However, the anecdotal evidence over the past year or so is quite compelling. I am not ignorant in the workings of IH.

 

[scy123]

We can't use common switches cause BIG TOMMYDEEE say so.

I'd use it on purpose just to stick the finger at them.

---------------
This is the tech in question BTW.

https://www.amazon.com/ARTGEAR-Contact-Normally-Magnetic-Induction/dp/B07RS2M9TR/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=reed+switch&qid=1631148495&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzQk83OVkzN0QyNDlLJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwOTcwOTM5M1VESlRWQU5QODZHWCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNDkyOTk4MUxHN1RMM1JLUEdXQiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

 

[scy123]

Shit, I can't use mosfets now

 

[kel]

Yeah, like I am the only person in the entire world that thinks patent law is a total waste of time...

YES - I have the power to destroy PATENT LAW!!!

and damn right I own FC... in fact I am going to patent it... so sit down bithces

I'm crying...

 

[scy123]

I'm gonna patent the light swtich, seems no one tried it before.

 

[kel]

Crazy huh...

Hostile to patent law, yet I clearly explained how patent law actually works multiple times and it still hasn't managed to penetrate...

We're in exactly the same position we were when Mr. Dee started this, and that is we have no actual proof that any theft has taken place.

It is all speculation... and I am going to repeat it again in some kind of vain hope... until...

wait for it... because it's a corker...

The federal court decides that a violation has taken place...

If you can't provide the case number of the trial that states that a patent has been infringed upon, then it's simply not there yet. Hell, you can't even provide the details of a patent that has been granted... only an application exists, which means precisely ... nothing!

I am not making this shit up... this is how it works in the real world, not in some fantasy tea party!

Utterly bonkers!!!

 

[scy123]

ZERO proof

To attain proof we must research until find.

 

[kel]

Yeah, cos it's our job to prove what other people say on the internet is right... yeah... that's how I spend my days... what about you?

 

[Vasgas]

Now, vapingfans will only talk to you if you allow them to interrogate you lmao. I DMed asking about the BCG. I heard ppl mentioning it but don't see it anywhere. Only saw a similar part being used/called an ashtray?

My curiosity got the better of me, so I DMed without much thought. Immediately, I was asked:

1. What do you do for a living?

2. What does the company you work for do?

3. Why are you asking these questions?

When i refused to answer, they said:

If you do not answer, we have nothing to talk about. This is the rules of our business.



First of all, do they have a lie detector hooked up some way? Or do they think they're the only ones capable of lying?

What would this interrogation accomplish rofl?

I'd really like to see the community unite and reject these assholes. Let the next assholes know we aren't stupid. You wanna serve our community, u had better do your prior research and know wtf you're selling.

 

[scy123]

I don't really want to push it, so probably not post much further.

But, anyone that would patent and enforce a simple magnet reed switch for use in an induction heater like this, I feel would actually be trying to seal from all induction heater makers. Which is hilarious.

Don't patent a common switch lmao.

 

[LesPlenty]

No other intrusion detection circuit was independently developed before Dynatec went to China.

Dental wax carving IH's have auto-detection and they have been around for many years, did a Yank steal a Chinese idea for once?
Is the Wand also a knock-off due to auto-sensing?
All seems a bit money grubby to me.

 

[Vasgas]

Dental wax carving IH's have auto-detection and they have been around for many years, did a Yank steal a Chinese idea for once?
Is the Wand also a knock-off due to auto-sensing?
All seems a bit money grubby to me.

Excellent points. Totally forgot bout the SJK.

 

[TommyDee]

Of course you are right @LesPlenty - different tech; the SJK uses a separate induction coil as a detector wound with the heating coil.

 

[Peepyopee]

Vaping fan's Instagram is certainly something to behold. In my opinion, it paints a very clear picture of how they operate. They currently display knockoffs of a Simrell intercooler (clones were already mentioned earlier in the thread), studenglass, BCG de-capper debowler, and something like a frankensteined Joe King keg attached to a fat stem. Seems like negative comments are being deleted as well because there are some really out of context messages on some of the images (I'm not great with instagram though).

The UFO IH tech aside, those are some pretty well known products which are basically being produced ~1:1 to their authentic counterparts by Vaping Fans. It's inevitable to be influenced by other companies in the space (i.e. all the sticky brick-like butane vapes), but it just seems like vaping fans is reproducing the work of other creators.

 

[kel]

I can't believe people are getting upset about companies in China ripping off products... it's 2021... where have you had your heads for the last, what, four decades??

You guys realise that you have possibly put an end to the whole dynavap after market community don't you?

I mean, I've heard of shitting on your own doorstep... but...

p.s. good morning everyone, hope you are all well on this lovely day

I sincerely hope that all this is just a sorry tale of someone making ridiculous accusations and nothing changes in this community, it's fantastic as it is, I would be very upset if this did end up turning into actual war with casualties.

 

[Vasgas]

I can't believe people are getting upset about companies in China ripping off products... it's 2021... where have you had your heads for the last, what, four decades??

I've agreed with almost everything you said but not this. They're not just ripping off product ideas. They're making 1:1 clones. I'd still be okay with it if they at least respected the product/community enough to learn about it. Instead, they're being cocky about their lack of knowledge and disrespecting anyone who disagrees with them, including makers they copied from. I don't even think they understand the comments half the time lol. I don't know about laws or nothing, but this is so uncool on so many levels. I'm sure we don't go near ppl like this in real life. Just sayin

You guys realise that you have possibly put an end to the whole dynavap after market community don't you?

I don't get it. So the entire DV after market are ignorant, blatant and disrespectful 1:1 copiers? If so, maybe it should end lol

p.s. good morning everyone, hope you are all well on this lovely day

I sincerely hope that all this is just a sorry tale of someone making ridiculous accusations and nothing changes in this community, it's fantastic as it is, I would be very upset if this did end up turning into actual war with casualties.

Me too, but don't seem that way. I'm a nobody in the community. Just happen to be very high in lockdown and joining in the discussion. Do have mercy on me purrty please

 

[kel]

I never saw anything that looked like the UFO before, curious as to what it has been cloned from?

Yes, I agree that 1:1 clones are not cool, and not something I would ever support, I didn't realise this was what we are talking about, this thread is about patents isn't it?

Also, whether you like it or not clones are still a fact of life and have been for a long time, they don't seem to hurt the businesses they take from, everyone knows they are generally not as good, no support, guarantee etc. I don't know this, but I wouldn't mind betting that they contribute to the economies of it all in the same way as people sharing mp3s does. It's irrelevant anyway, they are essentially unstoppable. unless we are going to see America go to war with China perhaps? We're in a world of absurdities. Dynavap are not taking on a company in China in any reality I know of - I would be very surprised anyway!

You're putting words in my mouth... I am accusing no one of anything, unlike others, I am simply pointing out potential outcomes if this path is followed to it's final conclusion:

The patents that Dynavap are attempting to put in place are horrendous, go and have a look at their website, see how much supposed IP they are trying to protect, now imagine a world where those patents are granted and enforced... all of a sudden you have one choice and one choice only - Dynavap or nothing!

Trademarks & Patents

The trademark information set forth on this page is believed to be accurate as of the most recent update of this page but should not be considered exhaustive. Certain DynaVap products are covered by one or more U.S. or foreign patents or pending patent applications.

www.dynavap.com

They are having a laugh, I have lost so much respect for Dynavap after seeing this - total contradiction to my impressions prior to this point - I really thought they were pretty cool and chilled people!

I mean... what the actual fuck... they are literally trying to patent a tube!! A TUBE!!! Patent pending written on a tube in one of the diagrams... I am laughing so much

EP2938377B1 - Tubular volatizing device - Google Patents

patents.google.com

They are ruined if they ever try and enforce this!

 

[phattpiggie]

From what I've seen there is no magnetic reed switch on the Orion pcb, I'm happy to retract this when someone shows me a picture of it.
I've retro fitted one to a new case and have one in my IH graveyard.

@LesPlenty you are correct on the auto detect and similarity between the Orion, Wand and the SJK.
The work coil circuit has a tiny amount of power going to it all the time the device is switched on. When the tip/cap are inserted the circuit recognises a change in values and fires up a relay so full power is delivered.
This is old tech and I'd imagine would be difficult to defend a new patent on.

I don't come to this forum very often anymore as it tends to put my back up.
This conversation has done just that.

Funny how those who are taking the moral high ground about the UFO being an Orion rip off were more than happy to buy an Alpine knowing full well it was a straight rip of Pipes hard work.

 

[kel]

From what I've seen there is no magnetic reed switch on the Orion pcb, I'm happy to retract this when someone shows me a picture of it.
I've retro fitted one to a new case and have one in my IH graveyard.

@LesPlenty you are correct on the auto detect and similarity between the Orion, Wand and the SJK.
The work coil circuit has a tiny amount of power going to it all the time the device is switched on. When the tip/cap are inserted the circuit recognises a change in values and fires up a relay so full power is delivered.
This is old tech and I'd imagine would be difficult to defend a new patent on.

I don't come to this forum very often anymore as it tends to put my back up.
This conversation has done just that.

Funny how those who are taking the moral high ground about the UFO being an Orion rip off were more than happy to buy an Alpine knowing full well it was a straight rip of Pipes hard work.

I am sorry it's got your back up, that's a shame, you seem like a very reasonable person - thank you for taking the time to post!

For what it's worth, if it helps, I am literally crying with laughter at the thought that the specific mechanism, that started this whole thing, doesn't even exist in the Orion... funniest post in this thread

 

[scy123]

This thread delivers lmao.

New topic direction, the Orion stole tech from the chinese induction heater.

Those thieves!