Phase3 Vaporizers

dimmusp

Well-Known Member
Very basic question: do these coils get hot on the outside? If you're a bit out of it and accidentally touch it, will it burn you?

Thanks
 

invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
Friday's should be dedicated to research. Cheers homie!

In a perfect world, when would you like to start offering Inversion Vape to the public? :rockon:

:cheers:

It would be cool to get it out soon, but I might try another prototype with a few small revisions first.

I need to get the bowl sorted out, the vape works really good as is, and the fact remains that people will be able to use a simple F to M adapter to make this vape work in case of a vape emergency which is nice. I broke one bowl at my buddies house when pulling the heater off because the ground glass joints stuck together and it took the bowl along with it; such is life with a glass vape!

I'm thinking if I have the joint cut in half that will reduce a lot of the contact points where they stick, and potentially I could have the bowl made with an unground glass joint to help minimize that further, which is kind of what I'm thinking of doing to ensure that nice HD view of the greenery:science: best seat in the house IMO! :lol:

Once I find or build the right bowl, I can get some nice screens for it and that part will be done.

For the heater I might try having a little lip put inside where the joint and tubing are joined that the SS screen could sit on, just to help lock the beads in place. I'd still like to replace the SS screen with a glass implement though, ideally.

I'm also thinking of trying a smaller 3mm air inlet, I don't think it would change the airflow much based on testing this one, and then I could probably eliminate the 6mm beads entirely.


Hopefully we can get this COVID behind us all and get back to normal, once I can start getting parts built again things should start moving along pretty quickly. But if things stay the way they are going and I keep tinkering with new ideas, I might have a whole new vape to build by the time everything is up and running again :lol:

Very basic question: do these coils get hot on the outside? If you're a bit out of it and accidentally touch it, will it burn you?

Thanks

Yes!

That's the main thing people don't like about these kind of vapes (and I totally understand too) so it was always going to be a very niche product, it's mostly aimed at the hardcore vaporist that already has enails and stuff and is used to exposed coils.

People don't like the exposed coils for safety reasons, but the exposed coil is also used for purity reasons, since it keeps the hot conductive metal completely out of the air and vapor path. Just one of those catch-22's that comes with the design philosophy.

One of the tricky things about working with glass is its difficult to mount stuff to it (like heaters)
If I spent more time thinking about it, maybe I could figure out how to secure an enclosure around it and turn it into a log vape or something. One cool thing about the current configuration is since its glass and pure convection, you can just leave the whole thing sitting on your rig, which gives it an extremely compact form factor for a desktop vaporizer.

Yes, you will get burned if you try and grab the coil with your bare hands.

The way I see it is I can't stop cooking just because I've been burned by the oven a few times!
 

nonamekevin

Well-Known Member
:cheers:

It would be cool to get it out soon, but I might try another prototype with a few small revisions first.

I need to get the bowl sorted out, the vape works really good as is, and the fact remains that people will be able to use a simple F to M adapter to make this vape work in case of a vape emergency which is nice. I broke one bowl at my buddies house when pulling the heater off because the ground glass joints stuck together and it took the bowl along with it; such is life with a glass vape!

I'm thinking if I have the joint cut in half that will reduce a lot of the contact points where they stick, and potentially I could have the bowl made with an unground glass joint to help minimize that further, which is kind of what I'm thinking of doing to ensure that nice HD view of the greenery:science: best seat in the house IMO! :lol:

Once I find or build the right bowl, I can get some nice screens for it and that part will be done.

For the heater I might try having a little lip put inside where the joint and tubing are joined that the SS screen could sit on, just to help lock the beads in place. I'd still like to replace the SS screen with a glass implement though, ideally.

I'm also thinking of trying a smaller 3mm air inlet, I don't think it would change the airflow much based on testing this one, and then I could probably eliminate the 6mm beads entirely.


Hopefully we can get this COVID behind us all and get back to normal, once I can start getting parts built again things should start moving along pretty quickly. But if things stay the way they are going and I keep tinkering with new ideas, I might have a whole new vape to build by the time everything is up and running again :lol:



Yes!

That's the main thing people don't like about these kind of vapes (and I totally understand too) so it was always going to be a very niche product, it's mostly aimed at the hardcore vaporist that already has enails and stuff and is used to exposed coils.

People don't like the exposed coils for safety reasons, but the exposed coil is also used for purity reasons, since it keeps the hot conductive metal completely out of the air and vapor path. Just one of those catch-22's that comes with the design philosophy.

One of the tricky things about working with glass is its difficult to mount stuff to it (like heaters)
If I spent more time thinking about it, maybe I could figure out how to secure an enclosure around it and turn it into a log vape or something. One cool thing about the current configuration is since its glass and pure convection, you can just leave the whole thing sitting on your rig, which gives it an extremely compact form factor for a desktop vaporizer.



The way I see it is I can't stop cooking just because I've been burned by the oven a few times!
:science:

One thing that I struggle with in my profession is "analysis paralysis". I look at something, analyze, second guess, analyze again, tweak a couple things, analyze again, etc. It's lead me to work on a task for a full day, when I should have moved on after maybe 2 hours.

Not saying that you should put something out before you are 100% happy with the product. Simply saying that at some point, you gotta just go with something that is good for most. Cheers to the weekend homie! :cheers:
 

invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
:science:

One thing that I struggle with in my profession is "analysis paralysis". I look at something, analyze, second guess, analyze again, tweak a couple things, analyze again, etc. It's lead me to work on a task for a full day, when I should have moved on after maybe 2 hours.

Not saying that you should put something out before you are 100% happy with the product. Simply saying that at some point, you gotta just go with something that is good for most. Cheers to the weekend homie! :cheers:

Haha yeah, I definitely struggle with trying to get things "perfect" its a downfall of mine I've struggled with for quite some time, I should have built it a few years ago :bang:

This vape will be a good test to see if I can overcome :D
I think it's pretty much complete, just needs the right bowl to bring it all together and it will be done!

...Then I can focus on designing the "next generation" of desktop vaporizers! :whoa:

:science:
 

MileHighHuman

Well-Known Member
It's kinda like - with these PID vapes you can go so high in temperature that the whole show is over so fast, so sometimes just turning the temp down a little bit gives you a lot more vapor to inhale. I also find lower temp vapor can be more "spicy" and have more of that "zing" for folks that want to feel that old school "took the wind out of me" sensation after a fat rip. Plus the flavor is crazy good at moderate temps, but you can turn it up so high that all the flavor is gone, I guess that's essentially the "slow smoking" temp region that HeadVripper Mark used to talk about.



Great hash rosin is one of my absolute favorites, it's the most expensive cannabis product per gram here in SoCal! The cleanliness really depends on the quality of the starting material (the hash) I've had hash rosin that was more gunky than flower rosin, and I've had hash rosin that is nearly as clean as purified solvent extracts with almost nothing to wipe away after a dab. My recent favorite is full melt water hash , I also find that full melt hash vaporizes at lower temps than any other concentrate or extract somehow... :hmm:especially off my ruby or sapphire faceted insert. :sherlock: The cream of the crop, IMHO! :p



Are you looking for something with big mesh or small mesh?

I was going to source some really nice multi layer woven screens for my bowls cause I like them to feel ultra sturdy. I feel like something with a pretty small mesh is important since some of the trichome heads that get knocked off in the grinder are really small and fall right through a larger opening.

For me, the end game is still a full glass bowl, but I still want to make the metal screened versions really good. :rockon:



It's a rainy day so I figured I might as well Get Inverted! :science: So I might be mixing things up already, but wouldn't the carbed bowl clear all the vapor in the tube, preventing the heater from getting dirty? Think like a smoke pipe where the carb clears the bowl.

It's pulling out the bowl directly to clear a hit, with the heater still attached, which leaves residual vapor in the bowl, hot air rises etc and it drifts up through the heater. It looks like it only condenses on the handle/air inlet though since the heater itself is hot. :science:

Hope everyone is having a good morning :smug:
Probably be in the vape lab all day, lots of research over here to build better vapes! That's what it's all about! :spliff:


ill have to play around with the temps. Im usually someone who likes to vape around ~425F, but ill test out lower temps when ive got this vape!

I agree full melt hash is amazing. I got 4 grams of hash rosin for $40 when i was in LA, so im assuming it wasn't the highest quality, but I didn't vape it. I smoked it so I couldn't really tell how clean it was anyways.

I wanted a screen that had big holes for best airflow, but your point about trichomes etc falling thru is good, so I'll probably just stick with the regular 60 mesh stainless steel screens?

Also yeah your right about the carb bowl, because the flower is below the carb hole.
Not sure why I was thinking of it like the G43 where the flower / vapor would above the carb bowl..

A carbed bowl with this vape, probably wouldn't create much residue, but more than no carb bowl.

For me personally, lifting the heater after each hit isn't hard, but like to keep things super simple so maybe that's why im not the biggest fan of a carbed bowl.

I got a price quote for 50 ceramic spheres. $2.50 each, plus $25 shipping so $150 total.

They said if I wanted them, then they'd need my payment immediately and shipping is 3 week delivery.

I was really wanting to try the regular ceramic's flavor profile, but I'll probably just go with ruby or sapphire spheres for now. Maybe i'll buy that ceramic later on after i've experimented with the other materials :shrug:
 

MileHighHuman

Well-Known Member
You'd need ~50% more; it takes around 70-80 rounds to fill the tank.

Wow im kind of shocked to be honest.

Remember when I assumed it would take 30 to fill it up.. Lol

So what temps are you using the controller. Also which controller do you have?

What temp do you assume your flower is vaping around (if you can guess from you vaped flower color)
 

invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
Wow im kind of shocked to be honest.

Remember when I assumed it would take 30 to fill it up.. Lol

So what temps are you using the controller. Also which controller do you have?

What temp do you assume your flower is vaping around (if you can guess from you vaped flower color)

Well since I'm stress-testing the vape I'm all over the place with temperatures. Usually I tend to start out on the lower end and progressively go higher; ...and higher... throughout the course of the day :science: :lol:

I'm rocking the Max Vapor controller all day!! :wave:

It takes more beads than I remembered too lol, it probably holds almost two-hundred 3mm beads! :cheers:

I'm hanging out anywhere from 550F all the way to 800F. Again these numbers will drop on the final 20mm part as well. I would say my sweet spot is at 600-675 for a really nice mix of great vapor. Temp is a little tricky to guess with this vape cause I kinda feel like its pretty efficient. Maybe I'll make a video of killing a bowl at like 600F, and then show what going up to 700 does; it feels pretty effective at extracting at lower temps within a nice "broad spectrum." If I had to guess I'd probably say the 385-405F range? You don't have to take the ABV very dark with this vaporizer (though you certainly can!)
At 750-800 there's no real flavor to me, I guess this is the "slow smoking" range; if I've been vaping all day long and can't fall asleep those high temps are pretty effective though.

:mmmm:
 

MileHighHuman

Well-Known Member
Well since I'm stress-testing the vape I'm all over the place with temperatures. Usually I tend to start out on the lower end and progressively go higher; ...and higher... throughout the course of the day :science: :lol:

I'm rocking the Max Vapor controller all day!! :wave:

It takes more beads than I remembered too lol, it probably holds almost two-hundred 3mm beads! :cheers:

I'm hanging out anywhere from 550F all the way to 800F. Again these numbers will drop on the final 20mm part as well. I would say my sweet spot is at 600-675 for a really nice mix of great vapor. Temp is a little tricky to guess with this vape cause I kinda feel like its pretty efficient. Maybe I'll make a video of killing a bowl at like 600F, and then show what going up to 700 does; it feels pretty effective at extracting at lower temps within a nice "broad spectrum." If I had to guess I'd probably say the 385-405F range? You don't have to take the ABV very dark with this vaporizer (though you certainly can!)
At 750-800 there's no real flavor to me, I guess this is the "slow smoking" range; if I've been vaping all day long and can't fall asleep those high temps are pretty effective though.

:mmmm:


I just found a glass 3mm bead on the floor (im assuming its from when I used them in my GS from like 1 maybe 2 years ago. Anyways didn't notice it until just now, then dropped it and cant find it..

Good reminder to not take my g43 apart. Unless I want to lose beads. Lol

Anyways saying this because I definitely will be using ruby with this because of the color (much easier to not lose and the 4mm should easier to spot compared to 3mm) Just saying :2c:

Should known you were using Max Vapor due to your info in your list underneath your post.

I know different controllers perform different even with the same vape. I'll be using the 710 coils / DC controller (love how simple/small it looks) and 20mm tall coil so I guess ill just have to try different temps.

Also I agree flavor is very important to me these days. Now I do want my potent effects, but potent hits with pure flavor are just what im wanting. Also agree that those high temps are good for sleeP!

Im always ready for more Inversion videos!

:rockon:
 

invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
:leaf:
Anyways didn't notice it until just now, then dropped it and cant find it..

:lol::lol:

Anyways saying this because I definitely will be using ruby with this because of the color (much easier to not lose and the 4mm should easier to spot compared to 3mm) Just saying :2c:

Should known you were using Max Vapor due to your info in your list underneath your post.

I know different controllers perform different even with the same vape. I'll be using the 710 coils / DC controller (love how simple/small it looks) and 20mm tall coil so I guess ill just have to try different temps.

Also I agree flavor is very important to me these days. Now I do want my potent effects, but potent hits with pure flavor are just what im wanting. Also agree that those high temps are good for sleeP!

Im always ready for more Inversion videos!

:rockon:

Ruby pearls are easy to find with an led light since they have a powerful glow, I've found some in my carpet that way that have popped out of my dab rig :D

I keep the MaxVapor powered up about 16 hours a day, going nonstop lately to stress test this vape. :sherlock: The little 3D printed DC controllers look like a nice value, I really dig their small size, the MV is super small as well which keeps the vape station tidy.

Tried to get a vid of the bowl during use, dumped more vapor than I was expecting, had to take a breather!


:leaf:
 

MileHighHuman

Well-Known Member
:leaf:

:lol::lol:



Ruby pearls are easy to find with an led light since they have a powerful glow, I've found some in my carpet that way that have popped out of my dab rig :D

I keep the MaxVapor powered up about 16 hours a day, going nonstop lately to stress test this vape. :sherlock: The little 3D printed DC controllers look like a nice value, I really dig their small size, the MV is super small as well which keeps the vape station tidy.

Tried to get a vid of the bowl during use, dumped more vapor than I was expecting, had to take a breather!


:leaf:

Thx for the new video!

I've noticed spheres are going up in prices.

Ever since Troy from VapeZone420 posted the link to his purchase of 200 3mm glass spheres for $10 the listing has been taken down.

Also, does anyone know why Swiss Jewel charges more for glass spheres than ruby? I thought ruby was more expensive than glass, but correct me if im assuming wrong.

Im kicking myself for giving away a ton of extra glass spheres I had haha. They were glass so im not upset, but they would be nice to still have to experiment with. :bang:
 

nonamekevin

Well-Known Member
Im kicking myself for giving away a ton of extra glass spheres I had haha. They were glass so im not upset, but they would be nice to still have to experiment with. :bang:
No worries homie, I'm sure the people you gave the glass spheres to were happy and are enjoying them. :peace::leaf:


@invertedisdead keep the videos coming homie, always enjoy them. :rockon:
 
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MileHighHuman

Well-Known Member
No worries homie, I'm sure the people you gave the glass spheres too were happy and are enjoying them. :peace::leaf:


@invertedisdead keep the videos coming homie, always enjoy them. :rockon:


Haha yeah hopefully!

I plan to go with other higher quality materials for spheres so it's fine haha.

Im going with ruby, and ive been told its exactly the same as sapphire in terms of performance, flavor etc.

And my sapphire dish was definitely way better than any glass, quartz, SiC, or other material I've tried (with concentrates)

Some of my other favorite vapes have some type of ceramic inside or around the heater, so I feel the ruby will satisfy me more than glass, quartz, sic (Sic is ceramic yeah but other ceramics are better in my opinion for flavor, SiC durability in awesome)

I still want to try the white colored regular. aluminum oxide ceramic, but I want to try it with ruby 1st before I start just buying a bunch of stuff.


Other topics:

So 3mm spheres will provide more heat in the air, but more restriction in the draw?

I assume that's a pro/con. More heat in the air, but less air due to the restriction.

I wonder if a mixture of 3mm and 4mm would work well?

The 5mm and 3mm combo in my GS did not work well.

But this is a different vape / setup.

So many options with this vape!
Which is great for user preference, but also makes it difficult to decide on what to go with.

Do you think the white colored ceramic would taste any better than ruby?
Or would I just be wasting money?

Obviously ruby/sapphire is at the top for concentrates, not the regular white color ceramic, so idk why it wouldn't be the same for flower :shrug:
 

invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
Haha yeah hopefully!

I plan to go with other higher quality materials for spheres so it's fine haha.

Im going with ruby, and ive been told its exactly the same as sapphire in terms of performance, flavor etc.

And my sapphire dish was definitely way better than any glass, quartz, SiC, or other material I've tried (with concentrates)

Some of my other favorite vapes have some type of ceramic inside or around the heater, so I feel the ruby will satisfy me more than glass, quartz, sic (Sic is ceramic yeah but other ceramics are better in my opinion for flavor, SiC durability in awesome)

I still want to try the white colored regular. aluminum oxide ceramic, but I want to try it with ruby 1st before I start just buying a bunch of stuff.

That's the real question: will our experiences with certain materials used for vaporizing concentrates have the same impressions when used to heat the air? I think so, but I'm not certain yet. That's why I wanted to build this vape, as a tool for experimenting. Glasses, metals, ceramics, crystals, it's all fair game.

So 3mm spheres will provide more heat in the air, but more restriction in the draw?

I assume that's a pro/con. More heat in the air, but less air due to the restriction.

I haven't tried 3mm yet but it's on the to-do list to compare the airflow.

But this is a different vape / setup.

So many options with this vape!
Which is great for user preference, but also makes it difficult to decide on what to go with.

There will be some additional options, but I kinda figured the "stock" setup would come pretty similar to what I've been using daily, but probably with rubies instead of white sapphire. I'm not a huge fan of the white sapphire on this vape because it gets confused for glass, which it's not! :spliff: I can't be undermining the bling factor advantage this has over other vapes; it's why I frequently wear the heater as a necklace :rofl:

I still want to do my signature RGB version though! :rockon::rockon: :popcorn:

A rasta version with ruby/sapphire would be pretty epic too! :D

:bigleaf:
 

MileHighHuman

Well-Known Member
I also just remembered how some vapes put out a more blue colored vapor compared to other vapes that put out a darker white colored vapor.

Maybe its the vape, but I feel like its do with the ceramic material since the vapes that use it are the ones i've got blue tinted vapor from.

I personally feel the blue vapors are more pure flavor.

But idk. Just some thoughts I had and wanted to see if anyone else has input?

It looks like this vape is putting out more white color vapor, but it might just be the lighting?
 

nonamekevin

Well-Known Member
I also just remembered how some vapes put out a more blue colored vapor compared to other vapes that put out a darker white colored vapor.

Maybe its the vape, but I feel like its do with the ceramic material since the vapes that use it are the ones i've got blue tinted vapor from.

I personally feel the blue vapors are more pure flavor.

But idk. Just some thoughts I had and wanted to see if anyone else has input?

It looks like this vape is putting out more white color vapor, but it might just be the lighting?
I've not had any experience with different colored vapor. That would make me cautious of any vape that affected the color of the vapor, because what is it about the vape that changes the color of oil/water vapor, and why am I going to inhale it? To me, that means there is something foreign that I don't want to inhale.

Curious to hear other thoughts, but this might not be the place on that discussion.

:rockon:
 

MileHighHuman

Well-Known Member
I've not had any experience with different colored vapor. That would make me cautious of any vape that affected the color of the vapor, because what is it about the vape that changes the color of oil/water vapor, and why am I going to inhale it? To me, that means there is something foreign that I don't want to inhale.

Curious to hear other thoughts, but this might not be the place on that discussion.

:rockon:


I don't think its a bad thing the color changes. ive talked to other members about this before and they agreed that the blue tinted vapor tasted better.

Ive gotten these results with the Herbalizer and I think Glass Symphony. Maybe another vape also. Hard to remember after so long haha.
 

lazylathe

Almost there...
@invertedisdead

About the vapor in the heater after a hit...
I remove just the heater and leave the bowl in for a few reason.
Firstly, it is easier for me to do this
Second, I continue my hit when I remove the heater to clear the bowl so no vapor ever enters a vape
third, i find it keeps a bit more flavor for the 2nd hit as I have totally cooled the herb down when clearing the bong.
That's just the way I do it! LOL!

@MileHighHuman
With regards to vapor color, I have always thought it was temp related.
Lower temps give that nice bluish vapor that is thinner and full of terps.
As you increase the temp, you introduce more molecules to the equation and this causes the thicker white vapor.
I don't think it has anything to do with what is actually heating your herb.

What interests me even more is this:
Why do some vapes produce thick vapor but on exhale it is very thin?
Grasshopper vapes do this, great inhale but thin on exhale.
What happens to the vapor? Is it actually as dense as it appears?
My other vapes all go in thick and come out pretty thick, with the GH is is very noticeable!

Give me thick, dense, flavorful vapor and you will have my attention!
 

nonamekevin

Well-Known Member
I don't think its a bad thing the color changes. ive talked to other members about this before and they agreed that the blue tinted vapor tasted better.

Ive gotten these results with the Herbalizer and I think Glass Symphony. Maybe another vape also. Hard to remember after so long haha.
Vapor is plant oils and water. What would make it blue?
 

MileHighHuman

Well-Known Member
@invertedisdead

About the vapor in the heater after a hit...
I remove just the heater and leave the bowl in for a few reason.
Firstly, it is easier for me to do this
Second, I continue my hit when I remove the heater to clear the bowl so no vapor ever enters a vape
third, i find it keeps a bit more flavor for the 2nd hit as I have totally cooled the herb down when clearing the bong.
That's just the way I do it! LOL!

@MileHighHuman
With regards to vapor color, I have always thought it was temp related.
Lower temps give that nice bluish vapor that is thinner and full of terps.
As you increase the temp, you introduce more molecules to the equation and this causes the thicker white vapor.
I don't think it has anything to do with what is actually heating your herb.

What interests me even more is this:
Why do some vapes produce thick vapor but on exhale it is very thin?
Grasshopper vapes do this, great inhale but thin on exhale.
What happens to the vapor? Is it actually as dense as it appears?
My other vapes all go in thick and come out pretty thick, with the GH is is very noticeable!

Give me thick, dense, flavorful vapor and you will have my attention!


I definitely agree that higher temps release things into the vapor that cause the color to be white, but im always a high temp user and have gotten blue vapor and high temps if I remember correctly. Maybe im not.

Ive used multiple types of lights so its definitely not my specific light im using so idk.

Like said its been awhile so im not sure but its something I remembered.

Then about your other question. Do you think the color of vapor could confuse the eye making them think its more vapor than it actually is? Its easier to "white - wall" a glass piece with dark white vapor compared to lighter tinted vapor color.

Vapor is plant oils and water. What would make it blue?


I have no idea. Im not that educated about the type of science haha. Just commenting on my experiences after years of use :2c:
 

lazylathe

Almost there...
Vapor is plant oils and water. What would make it blue?

Concentration of particles makes it less or more dense.
Simple science when heating stuff, at low temp particles are released at a slower rate but heat it up and the process speeds up releasing more particles at the same time.

@MileHighHuman
I would contribute that to a faster inhale speed. High temps will not yield blue vapor unless you speed up your inhale and thus cool down the temps.
 
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