Discontinued The Grasshopper

[vapviking]

Friday I sent in the Warranty Request for a new backend per my post last week... Today GHL replied that they will be sending a new backend out to me. She didn't say when, so I'm hoping it means "imminently", like this week.

So far, flawless CS.

This may be the first report of a user being sent a new back end without returning the whole Hopper first. I'm aware that prior to making your claim you were able to check your unit with a known working unit. I had the very same experience, but HL had me send everything back, including a battery. All was returned to me, and a new back end included. That was only about a month ago.
The replacement back end started spiking heat within two weeks, so I know another claim is in the offing. Then yesterday that unit started giving red/blue flashing sometimes when turned on at ambient temp. Click off/back on and it's fine. Its' performance is "fair" in that it will produce pretty good clouds, though its' abv will not get as dark as my other Hopper's does at temp 5.

Guys, let's talk about these hot back-ends. It's a problem (at least I would assume it is).

I've had my hopper for a few weeks now. Had to claim a warranty for a new body the minute it came in the mail, as I had cop lights upon first use (see prior pages in thread). The unit operates very well with the new body, but the back-end is still getting very hot almost instantly upon clicking it on for a hit. I thought cleaning the battery threads would fix this, but it hasn't.

Hopper Labs has told me that because the back-end completes the circuit, it's normal for it to get hot and not dangerous. But why, then, do some people say it doesn't happen to them and on units like mine the head gets almost as bad as the mouthpiece within 5 seconds? They've told me that if I want to have it looked at, I have to send the whole unit in, but why not just send out a replacement back-end?

Can anyone confirm that it's safe to use hoppers with hot back-ends? Risk of explosion and/or shock?

When I use Hopper without cooling between hits the entire thing eventually gets hot. So there is truth to the 'heat there is normal' statement, but it is not really the whole story. So, one might get that line as an initial response.
When describing the problem to HL, one needs to impress that this shit can hurt, almost a burn or shock feeling has been described (and definitely felt by me many times - I always use the SS exactly because it has this trouble, and I let the wife use the much more comfortable Ti. I am not saying all SS are better than Ti; I think hot back end can happen to either model. (see @JoeMama).
I can't speak with certainty about the safety question, but I don't believe any explosions will result, nor any battery venting type stuff...
Having a known-working Hopper is a huge advantage when assessing wtf is wrong with the other one! Being able to say to HL,"this one's good, this one ain't" sure helps a lot.
Last, I think actually making a claim, as opposed to asking a question of c/s, might yield a different response. In the claim, be clear that you can tell a difference between 'normal' heat and this unpleasant experience that has not always been happening.

 

[ArthurJ]

Does the blue light come on almost immediately?
If so, a new body is in your near (I hope) future.

Yes! I barely notice a red light, almost immediately to blue is exactly right.

 

[vapviking]

Yes! I barely notice a red light, almost immediately to blue is exactly right.

That is so disappointing, to have such a let down after a looooong wait. I also believe they'll soon send a new Body.
Hope you're in a place where US mail moves quickly!

 

[Mr. Me2]

Well after half a year my Grasshopper arrived!

It really does heat up fast, and get hot. I measured power draw at 6 amps. Do you guys measure different?
6A = 24 watts at 4 volts. Not 45 but still very good. The Air is only 12 watts.

But that short airpath is a brutal mistress. Beautiful, compact, and great with glass but my lungs are burning.
I'm going to sound like Mad Max soon...

I think I'll just charge the batteries on a normal 18650 charger so I can monitor the voltages, I wonder how much time and effort they spent on the incredible in-pen charging system.

A v2 Grasshopper that is a bit chunkier for heat dissipation (small flashlight size), loses in-body charging, and goes to standard 18650's could be a bit more of a game changer.

What temp are you using, and do you let it cool down between pulls?

 

[Baron23]

A v2 Grasshopper that is a bit chunkier for heat dissipation (small flashlight size), loses in-body charging, and goes to standard 18650's could be a bit more of a game changer.

I rather agree. In this months email/blog from HL, they explain their thinking regarding unique battery and that they did it for size. But I'm with you. Personally, I would have preferred the design trade-off had gone otherwise and they made it bigger, with standard battery size (not necessarily an 18650 but not this little dinky proprietary battery), and the whole unit more robust.

 

[ArthurJ]

That is so disappointing, to have such a let down after a looooong wait. I also believe they'll soon send a new Body.
Hope you're in a place where US mail moves quickly!

Yeah, it is. I'm in a good spot for mail, so hopefully this can get straightened out quick!

 

[NizzyJones]

Just got a Ship confirmation from GHL that they are shipping my GH2 batteries... coincidence that just today they also said they'd ship my new Ti backend (see post at top of page). I guess they like saving money on stamps, too. I wonder how long they've had those batteries....

I just got shipment confirmation last night for my new batteries that I ordered Nov. 18 so I'm guessing they weren't kidding about the most recent delays being due to batteries being backordered I'd hazard a guess that they got inundated with replacement battery orders once word got out on the forums that they'd released a new revision of them and they weren't prepared.

 

[JoeMama]

This may be the first report of a user being sent a new back end without returning the whole Hopper first. I'm aware that prior to making your claim you were able to check your unit with a known working unit. I had the very same experience, but HL had me send everything back, including a battery. All was returned to me, and a new back end included. That was only about a month ago.
The replacement back end started spiking heat within two weeks, so I know another claim is in the offing. Then yesterday that unit started giving red/blue flashing sometimes when turned on at ambient temp. Click off/back on and it's fine. Its' performance is "fair" in that it will produce pretty good clouds, though its' abv will not get as dark as my other Hopper's does at temp 5.

Actually, they did send an instruction before they said they would send the backend...

They asked me to push the clicker down half-way and report on whether the red lights came on. I told them I had, and the lights come on some of the time, and when they do, immediately turn off. And reminded them that I tried my other backend from my other grey Ti.

But here's something I didn't tell them, because I didn't want to muddy the waters...

I put the "bad" backend on my working Ti, and it did crazy things; worked fine, got cop lights, didn't work; mostly though a radical light show that I immediately terminated for fear of fucking up my working hopper. So I just let that part out. But the weirdness to me is that it didn't do the EXACT same thing as it did on the hopper that backend goes with. Know what I mean? Like, why would it produce a different result?

Finally, I have a theory about why I think the backend will fail more than the bodies. Because it's mechanical (brilliant, right? ). Seriously, though, not just that, but because of oxidation inside the backend between the contacts of the Temp dial that control the flow of current. I think in time that oxidation, being inaccessible to clean, will create problems.

Which is why maybe it IS a good idea to once in a while twist that dial back and forth (sans battery) to carve through it...?? I dunno, just vamping here... and vaping.

 

[ArthurJ]

They are sending me a new body, a quick response to my warranty request.

 

[GreenHopper]

I couldn't resist emailing the GHL blog, since they asked for ideas...
I sent this because it's what's on my mind... things like screen-removals, temperature dial twisting, external charging, etc, are also things we here broach from time to time, so maybe those topics will make their way on the blog... but first let's see if they even bother with this one:

Hi

It's nice to see you guys are stepping more out front and we are happy to be invited to comment on ideas.

I am just a member of the fuckcombustion.com forum (more properly called FC), and myself and others had caused the creation by a another member of a "Fix Resource".
It is careful not to "recommend" anything, but here's one tip among several that we'd certainly like your feedback on.

While ISO is the appropriate cleaning method for those (e.g.) weekly cleanings, we have found that using a material called "Blu Tack" has been a fantastic non solvent way to clean the back end threads. It takes but seconds to apply and remove and there you see the oxidation buildup from that poor battery doing all that heavy lifting passing current between those threads!

We get that this is just how it is with oxidation; but it would be comforting to hear what you have to say about the inevitable buildup of oxidation, where ISO just does not cut it over the long run.

What's your opinion? We'd like to know!

Yours Truly,
Batman ​

Nice man, I think you did the right thing now that they have an official line of comms open. I think @Vapor_Eyes did a grate job with the 'Hopper Fixes Resource' and HL should know about our experiences when dealing with issues.

@Hjalmark Interesting little glass piece that, might not diffuse enough to remove all the heat but will definitely improve the draw.

Personally I'm loving using the Hopper with an MFLB Orbiter and custom mouthpiece. I use a spare plain Ti mouthpiece as I don't like the silicone cap from hopper labs, it goes all yellow and nasty. Also without the silicone cap the hopper just sits perfectly in the 14mm joint.

My bro and friends seem to prefer using the Orbiters whip over my custom mouth piece but that's fine by me, not a fan of others slobbering up my glass

*** Sorry for the poor pic, old phone, crappy camera, best I can do for the moment ***

Well after half a year my Grasshopper arrived!

It really does heat up fast, and get hot. I measured power draw at 6 amps. Do you guys measure different?
6A = 24 watts at 4 volts. Not 45 but still very good. The Air is only 12 watts.

But that short airpath is a brutal mistress. Beautiful, compact, and great with glass but my lungs are burning.
I'm going to sound like Mad Max soon...

I think I'll just charge the batteries on a normal 18650 charger so I can monitor the voltages, I wonder how much time and effort they spent on the incredible in-pen charging system.

A v2 Grasshopper that is a bit chunkier for heat dissipation (small flashlight size), loses in-body charging, and goes to standard 18650's could be a bit more of a game changer.

Interesting stuff man, I know many pages back someone was putting up similar measures. In regards to a v2 hopper I'd like to have the heater and mouth piece that could screw onto a MOD battery. That way you could choose an 18650 battery mod or go nuts with a double 18650 MOD, sky's the limit at that point. I doubt it will happen though as I'm guessing the Hoppers heater will not respond kindly to TC settings and wattage adjustments.

 

[VegNVape]

Live jazz so damn good I felt compelled to give my stash away to the herbless saxophonist who was celebrating his birthday!

Bugging out to the sounds of Fats Waller.

 

[JoeMama]

So as I'm waiting for the new backend from GHL, suddenly the "bad" one is now working flawlessly.
I mean, I know you've all had this experience (most of yas anyhow), but this really baffles my head.

I wonder if I should tell GHL and like I always tell others, just wait for it to be completely dead again. I have the other one, which I use just as much, but I can understand how frustrating it is for those who own just one to have to live on the edge of anticipating when it will take a crap again.

 

[Whissmu]

Should I go back to the shipping thread to bitch about usps slow tracking?

I ordered a new glass for the hopper, looks like they will be arriving in the same week, little sad I don't have a huge bong to really get the full hopper experience but think I will be chocking on clouds anyway

I am seriously planning out the day I receive it in the mail

This post is so useless and off topic I will also include a picture of this . . . Nihilist bong I feel in love with earlier today

14 mm joint but only 18cm tall so not sure yet, want something dead simple and starting to prefer mouth piece that small not big bong opening, also much easier on my bearded friends, also bet you I could find a whip to fit easy on the top of that

Still wish it was close to twice as tall and I would have bought it in a heart beat

So what are folks bubbling with them self when using the hopper with glass ?

i love the Nihilist bong! is wonderfull! link please???
thanks and regards

 

[Hjalmark]

Here you go @Whissmu !
http://m.dhgate.com/product/new-style-factory-price-heady-rig-bongs-smoking/393427484.html#pd-019

 

[vapviking]

Finally, I have a theory about why I think the backend will fail more than the bodies. Because it's mechanical (brilliant, right? ). Seriously, though, not just that, but because of oxidation inside the backend between the contacts of the Temp dial that control the flow of current. I think in time that oxidation, being inaccessible to clean, will create problems.

My theory is the opposite; the non-mechanical, electronic parts in the Body will be more prone to failure. I'm basing this on my own track record with 4 Hoppers. 6 Bodies have needed replacing and 1 back end. Check that, 'cause one Hopper may now need one of each again!
Thank you, I'm glad that you posed some direct questions to the HL blog and I'm hoping they'll release studied and rational answers about thread materials, their care and feeding. Ahem.

So as I'm waiting for the new backend from GHL, suddenly the "bad" one is now working flawlessly.
I mean, I know you've all had this experience (most of yas anyhow), but this really baffles my head.

I wonder if I should tell GHL and like I always tell others, just wait for it to be completely dead again. I have the other one, which I use just as much, but I can understand how frustrating it is for those who own just one to have to live on the edge of anticipating when it will take a crap again.

Maybe it's now working flawlessly, but this doesn't mean you have a flawless unit. It displays intermittent erratic behavior. Maybe mention that on a little note when you return it. Take the new one and move on!

On my SS, the one with now second hot Back end, I'm getting red/blue flashing about 1 in 10 times when turning it on. I started thinking maybe this was a signal of poor battery health, so I broke down and pulled out a shiny new GHB2 and topped off the charge. edit* Having just read about the lights coming on if Hopper (or battery?) is really cold, in the battery blog post.* Used it all day yesterday and no cop lights until after it's second charge cycle. Then back to bad bongos. So, no I guess it isn't a battery warning, it's some stupid -intermittent- cop lights. I can click off and back on it works 'fine'. I mentioned previously that it doesn't yield quite as dark abv as our Ti, which really has been working flawlessly in its current incarnation. SS does still pack a punch though, even with the two obvious problem behaviors.

 

[ArthurJ]

Same day service.
I sent my warranty request in the morning. They sent my replacement body in the evening. I am pleased with that, it was easy.
So with any luck I'll be hopping this weekend.

 

[Hjalmark]

Me and the wife are Xmas shopping . . Expect I am more "hopper accessory shopping"

 

[sk8man121]

Remember that hot back-end I complained about a page back or so? Well, after twisting the power-on switch 90 degrees and going to town with some back and forth motion on the dial, the fucker is operating cooler than it has since I got the unit. Barely even warm.

This leads me to believe that 1.) I definitely had a problem on my hands when the back-end was heating up to mouthpiece-level heat within 5 seconds, and 2.) It's probably going to happen again.

How can I tell if it's just an issue of having to clear some dust the way I did (I think?), or if the back-end is actually "defective?" It's been operating cool for about 24 hours; I have not switched temp or removed battery.

 

[JoeMama]

My theory is the opposite; the non-mechanical, electronic parts in the Body will be more prone to failure. I'm basing this on my own track record with 4 Hoppers. 6 Bodies have needed replacing and 1 back end. Check that, 'cause one Hopper may now need one of each again!
Thank you, I'm glad that you posed some direct questions to the HL blog and I'm hoping they'll release studied and rational answers about thread materials, their care and feeding. Ahem.

Ha! Fair enough, VV!

HL has responded to my email regarding blog ideas!

Follows is they're response along with my reply:

"Thanks for the input. Out next blog post is actually going to be about suggested cleaning technique. Your question about Blu Tack has sparked interest and discussion in the office. Can you explain to me, in great detail, how you are applying the Blue Tack? This will help out with our post and will help us answer your question"

I am very happy you have replied!
See attached pic of what Blue Tack looks like when applied to the threads of the backend assembly.


Notice the black gunk?

All you have to do is take a piece of Blu Tack and press it onto the area you want to clean. It sticks to itself, so nothing gets left behind. It’s reusable for quite a while, and its inexpensive. ISO is good for other cleaning, but ISO just doesn’t take oxidation off.

Blu Tack is mainly known for other things like art and other “sticky” projects, but it’s used as a “pick up” cleaner (try it on your keyboard to clean the keys). It’s pressure-sensitive, so, pressing it into the area you want to clean, then peeling it back off (like Silly Putty, if you remember that stuff). And as I mentioned, it sticks to itself, so nothing is left behind.

Many of us use this. I personally use it every other time I change a battery, and I nearly never get a backend that gets more than slightly warm. If the threads are oxidized, this extra resistance in the threads created heat from the current being wasted in that bottleneck of gunk.

Another cleaner that we use, but since Blu Tack, not as much, is DetoxIt. It also works great, and possibly is necessary for “deep cleaning” of the threads if they have been neglected. Just a few tiny drops and wipe it off.

https://www.amazon.com/Caig-DeoxIT-...e=UTF8&qid=1481739789&sr=1-23&keywords=deoxit

May I say, that we on FC are VERY interested in knowing what HL thinks. There are several of us with technical careers (from battery technology to electronics) who remain impressed with the Hopper in spite of the difficulties getting the product produced flawlessly - which we know you will achieve in good order.

 

[duff]

Just purchased one of these cases from Black Rock Originals.
Anyone have any experience with the company/case?

 

[moondog]

Ha! Fair enough, VV!

HL has responded to my email regarding blog ideas!

Follows is they're response along with my reply:

"Thanks for the input. Out next blog post is actually going to be about suggested cleaning technique. Your question about Blu Tack has sparked interest and discussion in the office. Can you explain to me, in great detail, how you are applying the Blue Tack? This will help out with our post and will help us answer your question"

I am very happy you have replied!
See attached pic of what Blue Tack looks like when applied to the threads of the backend assembly.


Notice the black gunk?

All you have to do is take a piece of Blu Tack and press it onto the area you want to clean. It sticks to itself, so nothing gets left behind. It’s reusable for quite a while, and its inexpensive. ISO is good for other cleaning, but ISO just doesn’t take oxidation off.

Blu Tack is mainly known for other things like art and other “sticky” projects, but it’s used as a “pick up” cleaner (try it on your keyboard to clean the keys). It’s pressure-sensitive, so, pressing it into the area you want to clean, then peeling it back off (like Silly Putty, if you remember that stuff). And as I mentioned, it sticks to itself, so nothing is left behind.

Many of us use this. I personally use it every other time I change a battery, and I nearly never get a backend that gets more than slightly warm. If the threads are oxidized, this extra resistance in the threads created heat from the current being wasted in that bottleneck of gunk.

Another cleaner that we use, but since Blu Tack, not as much, is DetoxIt. It also works great, and possibly is necessary for “deep cleaning” of the threads if they have been neglected. Just a few tiny drops and wipe it off.

https://www.amazon.com/Caig-DeoxIT-...e=UTF8&qid=1481739789&sr=1-23&keywords=deoxit

May I say, that we on FC are VERY interested in knowing what HL thinks. There are several of us with technical careers (from battery technology to electronics) who remain impressed with the Hopper in spite of the difficulties getting the product produced flawlessly - which we know you will achieve in good order.

Well done, Joe. Way to represent. Can't wait to see what they think.

 

[vapviking]

Just purchased one of these cases from Black Rock Originals.
Anyone have any experience with the company/case?

Dimension of the case says 5-3/4" long and seems like they mean outside measure?
That's just about what the Hopper measures in length.
This is a little odd...I checked on Hopper site and the graphic says the length of Hopper is 140mm/5-1/2". I just measured at Ti at 147mm. That's almost 5-3/4". I'm not so sure this case is long enough.

 

[Whissmu]

Here you go @Whissmu !
http://m.dhgate.com/product/new-style-factory-price-heady-rig-bongs-smoking/393427484.html#pd-019

very thanks Hjalmark
I found my Christmas present!

peace!

 

[JoeMama]

Well done, Joe. Way to represent. Can't wait to see what they think.

Thanks, Moon...

I'd thought about pointing them to the Fix thread, but I'd think I'll leave that option to our Royal Chronicler, @Vapor_Eyes ... if he so desires, of course.

 

[MoltenTiger]

Sounds like they mightn't have seen @Vapor_Eyes GH fixes resource. This might be a good thing to bring to HL's attention as it covers a lot of tweaks and progression we've discovered over the years

Edit: great minds think alike, thought I may as well leave this a short post after seeing your near simultaneous thinking Joe

...

Remember that hot back-end I complained about a page back or so? Well, after twisting the power-on switch 90 degrees and going to town with some back and forth motion on the dial, the fucker is operating cooler than it has since I got the unit. Barely even warm.

This leads me to believe that 1.) I definitely had a problem on my hands when the back-end was heating up to mouthpiece-level heat within 5 seconds, and 2.) It's probably going to happen again.

How can I tell if it's just an issue of having to clear some dust the way I did (I think?), or if the back-end is actually "defective?" It's been operating cool for about 24 hours; I have not switched temp or removed battery.

The difference seems to be a dodgy back-end stays dodgy, no matter what you do. Cleaning it, twisting it, makes no difference, it just stays a bit shit regardless.
It's not so much the heat that's a problem, that seems more random than anything. A proper dodgy back-end simply prevents proper vaporisation. The clouds are thin and the ABV is not as deplete, the red light lingers much longer, and that remains constant.
My good back-end heats up from time to time, just like my dodgy/warranty replaced back-end.
But the difference is notable and unmistakeable, even without comparison. The dodgy back-end prevents the hopper from working, heat isn't a good indication of a broken back-end. If it's still pumping out big clouds, it's all good. It's easier to notice the weaker production when using through glass also.