Discontinued Zion vaporizer

[pakalolo]

There will not be a separate thread for criticizing RBT. That is a terrible idea and flies directly in the face of the FC policy against company-bashing.

I have already posted that this thread is not a free-for-all where everyone gets to tell RBT how to run his business. You get to state your complaint once and then you have to move on. If your complaint is that you don't like how he communicates or estimates his progress, then please note that this has been already beaten to death and nothing you can say will add anything constructive.

RBT supporters likewise need to note that it is the moderators who are responsible for keeping the critics in line. Admonishing other members simply causes friction and leads to flames. If someone is breaking the rules, report it and do not respond; otherwise, ignore it or use a PM.

 

[DieHard]

AFIK there is no recall. My production Zion (Logi) works great and has zero issues after I reglued the loose magnets. No issue with the knob at all.

 

[Melting Pot]

AFIK there is no recall. My production Zion (Logi) works great and has zero issues after I reglued the loose magnets. No issue with the knob at all.

I can vouch for that... I'll have what he's having and make it a double

 

[dac13]

I am still fine with waiting for my Zion as I only ordered in January, however I feel really bad for the 3 people who had issues @little maggie and the other two. to have a Zion in your hands and be so excited to use it, and then two months later still not have a working one back would make me pretty upset.

I know he needs a new glue, but like.... find it, buy it, get it shipped, and use it. 2 months is plenty of time to find a new type of glue and start using it, or AT LEAST fix the 3 you already sent, if you want longer to figure out the rest thats another thing.

I think thats one reason people feel like he put the Zion on the back burner to focus on the Milaana. The Zion got push months and months back due to choice of glue. I find it hard to believe there isn't a glue out already out there used for similar purposes that he could just buy and continued production 1 week later.

I ordered both, so it makes no difference to me, but I do find it interesting, and I understand people's frustration.

 

[nosmoking]

I know he needs a new glue, but like.... find it, buy it, get it shipped, and use it. 2 months is plenty of time to find a new type of glue and start using it, or AT LEAST fix the 3 you already sent, if you want longer to figure out the rest thats another thing.

I don't understand why adhesive selection, of all things, seems to have completely halted zion production.

It was the knob redesign mostly, on top of supply, and setting up manufacturing for two units while doing so.

Just to clear up the confusion that it's not just about glue.

 

[highnes]

Aug 14 $169 international (Canada) backer here, I have not lost faith in the Zion heater tech and overall design but I have been forced to ask for a refund because I've lost employment recently. Truly a sad day to hit that send button, though I will be on top of keeping up with this vaporizer. Will be waiting patiently for its Canadian release.

 

[Shit Snacks]

Chill out please, me too was joking around % and progress stuff.

Although I have a serious question for you:

Do you check with him what you are allowed to tell us about progress on rbt vapes?

Can we consider you now as a NONPAYED company rep more than a simple beta tester, or are you an Assange kind of guy, leaking us private informations?

Um, okay that was not clear at all to me from your post, and maybe not clear from mine that I am very chilled out, just succumbed to responding in kind... But I digress

I do not check with him at all really, I have probably said too much or the wrong thing many times, I am still just an early customer, when we speak on the phone he knows i will share stuff here at my own discression, I just happen to be damn good at it im(notso)ho. It is somewhere in between assange and rep, bc he knows and is okay with what I am doing, but does not know the actual content nor does he really care to (obv he does not have the time to), basically he just trusts me as I do him, at this point we do know each other well enough in that regard i suppose. So I am getting closer to MrP style friend beta tester, but still nowhere near that close of a relationship honestly, just some phone calls and texts is all (plus i only know, even understand, so much, so that affects the way I share too, as do the replies).

Does that all make sense?

AFIK there is no recall. My production Zion (Logi) works great and has zero issues after I reglued the loose magnets. No issue with the knob at all.

Yeah, its all speculative nomenclature, there really is no term for any of this. Like I always say its all a very unqiue form of product development that you don't see in other industries as far as I know. My knobs work well too, but I am careful, you did break Loki (twice! ok ok I broke OG Zig too). He just wants to set a higher standard of quality and overall durability, to further command that premium price beyond performance

I am still fine with waiting for my Zion as I only ordered in January, however I feel really bad for the 3 people who had issues @little maggie and the other two. to have a Zion in your hands and be so excited to use it, and then two months later still not have a working one back would make me pretty upset.

I know he needs a new glue, but like.... find it, buy it, get it shipped, and use it. 2 months is plenty of time to find a new type of glue and start using it, or AT LEAST fix the 3 you already sent, if you want longer to figure out the rest thats another thing.

I think thats one reason people feel like he put the Zion on the back burner to focus on the Milaana. The Zion got push months and months back due to choice of glue. I find it hard to believe there isn't a glue out already out there used for similar purposes that he could just buy and continued production 1 week later.

I ordered both, so it makes no difference to me, but I do find it interesting, and I understand people's frustration.

Yeah, as nosmoking said its not finding a glue, theres knob and more we dont know perhaps, but yes now i think it is actually fair to say Milaana steals some focus, especially now, bc once it gets running there will be cashflow that will free him up to spend said time building said Zions, properly. Its push back is more due to the time and energy involved (tied into parts supply and demand level), ultimately Milaana is going to help spur Zion to speed up. That is the best way to look at it imo, best way to get us there

 

[Andreaerdna]

You made it clear enough @Shit Snacks (watching archer vice while typing :-)
IMO Zion need some one like you on the team to keep backers / potential customers up to date, as well as Eds kind of abilities to get over some imperfections on finitions and assembly shortcuts (adhesive)

 

[Shit Snacks]

You made it clear enough @Shit Snacks (watching archer vice while typing :-)
IMO Zion need some one like you on the team to keep backers / potential customers up to date, as well as Eds kind of abilities to get over some imperfections on finitions and assembly shortcuts (adhesive)

Ah vice, fun stuff, another shake up this season seems to be working well too...

And agreed, why I am taking it upon myself for now because I feel I can and some people need it, but again once he has the cashflow from Milaana hopefully that is high on the list, or maybe the manufacturers will come help too.

Shortcuts wise, we did get him to move the adhesive out of the vapor path way back when, it was the heater screen held in with glue too in the 2x4, but he worked hard to develop an effective system without it. Sure its still needed in some places, but I think eventually that may be overcome too, where it is now I don't think it's an issue at all (even in Milaana its only fresh air passing over cured heat-safe medical epoxy, much like in Elevape, so I'm not concerned about it at all, works and tastes great)

I am hoping to get him in touch with Alan some day when things calm down though, that's someone who knows his shit about pure assembly (wrapping up my HIbrid with him now and we've talked Zion), so future models may find a work around, or future generations of these models, but it wont be for quite a while of course, these designs are mostly done

 

[WakeAndVape]

Aug 14 $169 international (Canada) backer here, I have not lost faith in the Zion heater tech and overall design but I have been forced to ask for a refund because I've lost employment recently. Truly a sad day to hit that send button, though I will be on top of keeping up with this vaporizer. Will be waiting patiently for its Canadian release.

See if I can buy out your spot...I'd be open to that! Less Confusion All Around

 

[HellsWindStaff]

This is annoyingly turning into a "how I imagine RBT should run his business thread". It's increasingly painful to read and if you guys all think you know better, then start your own vape company, or contact Ryan directly to offer your help.

I promise this is my last post....it always alerts me I can't help myself...

Spoiler

Ahahaha, dude, I have tried to email Ryan my suggestions.

No dice, no idea what caused him to ignore them. Each finger type of a key literally take one year off your life if you haven't heard........right now I just wasted 5 minutes responding to you....5 minutes that could have been used for ANYTHING other than responding to you...........I don't know how I'll sleep at night. Call my insurance company, the time it took here really took a toll...... I could have gotten a Milaana done in the time of this message!!! WOW dude, you're really stressing my time clock, here, spending a few minutes responding to you..........I'M SO TIRED

Fact is, if you don't want your business to be considered "ran like shit" don't run it like shit. Maybe its of your opinion it isn't? It's of mine that it is?

Is it fair for me to say that NONE of you have ever had the CEO tell you to not buy their vape??? Curious??? When you all inquired about your last vape, did users of it tell you to stfu about it??? Did Seibo tell all of you with the VXH to not buy it??? Just curious, seems like maybe my experience was common??? Please share your experiences about ANY company telling you they don't want your money because you sent them an email through their fucking customer service channel asking questions????

I'm still waiting..............he probably didn't ancitipate that I would share my experience, but I will, without question, PM anyone on reddit or FC telling them about how horrible his company was ran. Is that being fickle? Petty?? No doubt. That said, it's a pretty rare occurrence....still waiting on the example.......I should share my unique experience no????

I can go to fucking Kmart and they'll try to sell me on their shit product, the fact he doesn't speaks volumes.

He should of thought abougt that. Not my fucking problem. I don't mean to take it out on you in particular Kero, because like I said at the top I like your posts alot and they are very helpful. But this comes across as very frustarrting to me. People need to open their eyes and not admonish or excuse being a piss poor person or rep. I've dealt with like 14-15 people and RBT i the only one who acts the way he does.....I'm sure it's all "par for the course'.....I'm sure it's all "regular for the industry"........Get real. Don't be fooled into thinking you have to accept shit as a product/service. The only shit you are accepting is your standard.

Peace and love the Z team but I honestly get so annoyed reading things.said I'd quit this thread, couldnt help myself.....maybe I take it the wrong way....just seems like complaints get minized into the "oh wow this typical bitchy zion customer :eyeroll:" but fact is, plenty of people have just never outright dealth with a company as unprofessional. Like I said, I've never had anyone turn away a sale becasue they had questions.....STILL WAITING........(Show me the link of the post....I'm still waiting....show me the link of the CEO telling you not to buy their product for any company....you can screen shot the email and link it ot imgur.....you can PM me on here.....lots of options......yet I'm STILL waiting.)

I am in the preproduction design of a vape. I hope some of you try to buy it, and I hope I can tell you no. I'll make sure I have a schmucky ass FAQ to admoish my responsibility. Should cover about 68% of things.....that certainly gives you a good idea of what I mean right???? It's past the point of being polite get fucking real.

Why was the Grasshopper thread though, used as a comparision? It's almost like those that make shitty updates should stick together? LOL. I challenged people later to use another thread about a vape that has had a beevy of problems, funny to me that the GH is the first vape mentioned as having so many problems they can't garner good information. Sounds alot like this thread. I challenged people about that ewarlier though, guess challenge is not accpeted. Zion and Grasshopper.......such amazing tech.

Peace, out. I'm done with this. Perspective is so warped. Whatever.

(Kero I was just using you as a platform....while I vehmently disagree with some of your content/opinion in my quoted post, you are more often thatn not very heolpubl and impartial and I wish none of you ill will, but I do hope RBT's business flounders and fails. Spite, maybe (mostly) but I am honestly just fed up with it.......I'd appreciate if somehow FC could remind me about updates to the Underdog, Cloud EVO, JodaGlass, Etc, thread..............some reason I never get alerrts to that but I do get alearts baiting me into saying how shitty I think RBT is as a company.......I'm still waiting on your evidence of the CEO telling me not to buy their product........still waitng.....still waiting....OH but this is SOOOOOO typical of the industry........

If this is "typical" you need new companies to deal with. Or I'm just amazing and deducting a companies worth.........don't give me so much credit.

Pease, I hope to never see this thread again, I'm so tired of rehashing it, but it shocks me that it's sucha foreign concept.

 

[Copacetic]

"70% of the workforce trained"
I'd like to know what is 70% of two people?

There must be more peepz?

I hope things get figured out. I'd like to try this heater one day.

I read that as - 70% of all training has been completed.
Employee 1 has completed 70% of their training.
70% of employee 2's training is also complete.

On a separate tack:
RBT's participation in this thread won't speed production of our vapes up by a single instant, and would definitely slow things down.
How much it would slow things is debatable.
Whether that delay is preferable to soothe y/our anxiety or whatever is also debatable.
Neither debate is interesting to me (knock yourself out though) or likely to help speed delivery of RBT product.

I rather that he invest all his time in getting vapes made/out than waste any of it in unproductive debate/explanation here.

it's true that other manufacturers have different approaches, and if I thought that RBT (and by extension us) would benefit from a different approach then I would encourage that, but who knows what is likely to best serve RBT than the man himself?


I might be moaning about RBT too if I thought it would help.
But public moaning doesn't help our cause as it merely makes it harder for prospective purchasers to see through the chaff to the qualities of the vape itself, and less likely to invest their hard earned in the company/vape that we all want to flourish (well, all but those who WANT HIS BUSINESS TO FAIL-!!!?, really? you think he desreves to lose his livelihood over this @HellsWindStaff?)
This inevitably reduces RBT's revenue, and hurts him, and us.

I look forward to my Mi, and if it turns out that I agree with the Z-teams stellar assessment of the tech' I will certainly get a Zion when they hit the shops (or another Mi if they're offered in exotic woods).
Even though RBT doesn't attend here ATM and won't see this comment I wish him, and his business, well.
He's clearly put a load of work into Zion/Mi and I think he deserves some good wishes and support.

 

[DocGonzo]

I'd appreciate if somehow FC could remind me about updates to the Underdog, Cloud EVO, JodaGlass, Etc, thread..............some reason I never get alerrts to that but I do get alearts baiting me into saying how shitty I think RBT is as a companyproduct.....
Pease, I hope to never see this thread again,

The watch/unwatch link for every thread is at the top right of the page. If you don't want Zion thread updates, just unwatch it. If you're not getting alerts about other threads you watch, then you may be behind on reading them. Go to your "Watched Threads" link, again near the top of each page, and you'll see all the threads you have flagged for alerts that you haven't read.

 

[seaofgreens]

RBT is a collection of scientist, engineers, and designers holding degrees from RIT, RPI, Penn State and Clemson. We hold captive the final assembly and quality control but components will be manufactured by US manufacturers that have the required expertise and competence. We are committed to controlled organic growth and aware of the pit falls of not following a rigorous NPD process from decades of product development experience. Although I cannot discuss the exact numbers RBT has capacity to do approximately 500 units per month starting out and will label the unit "Sold Out" when required to maintain a maximum of 4 weeks from order to shipment. Thanks for the question and opportunity to clarify RBT's mission. We look forward to your order if you decide to take advantage of the sale price and warranty.

Nobody forced him to make these claims when I asked him if this was going to turn out like... this. And also what convinced me to purchase in the first place.

No blame here guys, it is what it is. Also no problem, I get that shit happens.

I also jumped on board hard due to a certain moderator having such a positive reception of the device. That same moderator imo has too much conflict of interest to be the moderator being the spokesperson here. Rubs everything wrong. Just my two cents. Please don't kill me. I'm not attacking. Just suggesting.

Long and short of this bullshit is I came mostly to say thanks to @Shit Snacks for being that good dude we need here, soothing shit out. Definitely much appreciated.

Maybe in some long and distant future, I will return, and have something more to say here about a theoretically wonderful device. For now, I am saying goodbye, and also going to faze back from coming to FC at all. Tired of the stress anymore. Don't need it.

(I read all the rules carefully, and I sincerely believe/hope this is not breaking any of them. Please just delete whatever content you feel is not acceptable rather than give me a warning point if this post is not cool. I like FC, and just wanted to share a perspective.)

 

[pakalolo]

I also jumped on board hard due to a certain moderator having such a positive reception of the device. That same moderator imo has too much conflict of interest to be the moderator being the spokesperson here. Rubs everything wrong. Just my two cents. Please don't kill me. I'm not attacking. Just suggesting.

Since I must be the moderator in question, I would like to point out that I am not now and never have been a spokesman for @RastaBuddhaTao or his company. I have posted only my experiences and have not encouraged anyone to buy a Zion or a Milaana, although I have said that the Zion design is excellent and that most people will like using it. I have not said anything at all about my Milaana experience.

I am fully aware that it doesn't matter what I say or do, if I say anything positive about a device I have been asked to test or review, I will be accused of a conflict of interest. For the record, I do not advocate any device from any manufacturer unless asked specifically for advice. I follow this policy so that I can defend myself from baseless opinions like yours. I don't know how you formed your impression but clearly you have read things into my posts that are not there.

 

[seaofgreens]

Last time I swear, until I have a zion or bust.

Nope, you misunderstand me.

I was just suggesting that perhaps you relegate your involvement posting wise to the device, pros cons, how you like to use it etc... You could moderate as you see fit of course, but when there are things that need to be said by FC in this thread, that perhaps you shouldn't be the one doing it.

That's my only conflict of interest... It rubs me personally the wrong way. I don't speak for anyone else.

You do what you will, but I never meant to portray you as a spokesperson for RBT. I also merely meant to point out that a respected moderator liking a device is a good endorsement (I had thought.) I won't ever make that mistake in the future obviously, but I would hope you would at least be sympathetic to that idea and take note.

Peace dude.

 

[Shit Snacks]

Last time I swear, until I have a zion or bust.

Nope, you misunderstand me.

I was just suggesting that perhaps you relegate your involvement posting wise to the device, pros cons, how you like to use it etc... You could moderate as you see fit of course, but when there are things that need to be said by FC in this thread, that perhaps you shouldn't be the one doing it.

That's my only conflict of interest... It rubs me personally the wrong way. I don't speak for anyone else.

You do what you will, but I never meant to portray you as a spokesperson for RBT. I also merely meant to point out that a respected moderator liking a device is a good endorsement (I had thought.) I won't ever make that mistake in the future obviously, but I would hope you would at least be sympathetic to that idea and take note.

Peace dude.

A very fair opinion, I will just say I have personally always found those posts to be extremely straightforward objective to me, and agree a moderator endorsement is a good thing (better if you identify with the mods vaping style already from other vapes). I can see the benefit of a mod not mod-ing a thread if he is a beta tester for the product, and I do believe the actual mod work is indeed done by someone else entirely here actually. The general FC posts still make sense to me, bc Pak is one of the best examples of what FC strives to be...

Hang in there SOF! Some day you will have the proof to support your initial passion

 

[pakalolo]

Last time I swear, until I have a zion or bust.

Nope, you misunderstand me.

I was just suggesting that perhaps you relegate your involvement posting wise to the device, pros cons, how you like to use it etc... You could moderate as you see fit of course, but when there are things that need to be said by FC in this thread, that perhaps you shouldn't be the one doing it.

That's my only conflict of interest... It rubs me personally the wrong way. I don't speak for anyone else.

You do what you will, but I never meant to portray you as a spokesperson for RBT. I also merely meant to point out that a respected moderator liking a device is a good endorsement (I had thought.) I won't ever make that mistake in the future obviously, but I would hope you would at least be sympathetic to that idea and take note.

Peace dude.

I'm confident that I have not allowed my opinion of the Zion to influence any moderator action I've taken in this thread or anywhere else. If I recused myself from every thread for devices that I have tested or reviewed, I would not be of much use to FC. If you have an example where you think I have taken action based on a bias rather than an FC rule, send me a PM and I will be happy to explain why you are wrong. I am extra careful on this point and I am proud of my record.

I can see the benefit of a mod not mod-ing a thread if he is a beta tester for the product, and I do believe the actual mod work is indeed done by someone else entirely here actually. The general FC posts still make sense to me, bc Pak is one of the best examples of what FC strives to be...

That's not entirely correct. I try to limit my moderating activity in a thread where I have been a beta tester or sent a device to review, but I have no problem stepping in when a thread is getting out of hand the way this one has at times. Regardless of my involvement with Zion beta testing, I do not see any reason why I shouldn't point out FC rules against company-bashing when they are being broken or tested.

 

[IAmKrazy2]

So i think i forgot to mention the Zion is a stellar tailgate vape.

It came with me to opening day for Detroit Tigers and the last home game before the playoffs for the Detroit Pistons. Plenty discreet in a tailgate atmosphere, everything you need is in one place, and you can puff on demand and put it back down between those games of bags (aka cornhole) washers (aka redneck horseshoes), ect or when you need your hands free to flip those burgers or pour some more shots!

This would also be a great beach vape!

 

[DieHard]

I, personally feel that @pakalolo has done a great job of "stepping down from the podium" when it comes to posting in these threads with regards to a specific device. His anecdotal experiences are just as valid, if not more so, than any other FC member's experiences.

 

[killick]

@IAmKrazy2 Great beach vape, and also sailboat vape. We were out on a friends boat near Campbell River, BC, on Vancouver Island, last weekend, and Baby performed flawlessly. We didn't test the waterproof or floaty capabilities at all tho...

It's also a great ATV vape as it fits in the cup holder, but I might wrap a short stem in heatshrink to improve durability til I can get @Eds wooden stems for the bush...

 

[Shit Snacks]

@IAmKrazy2 Great beach vape, and also sailboat vape. We were out on a friends boat near Campbell River, BC, on Vancouver Island, last weekend, and Baby performed flawlessly. We didn't test the waterproof or floaty capabilities at all tho...

It's also a great ATV vape as it fits in the cup holder, but I might wrap a short stem in heatshrink to improve durability til I can get @Eds wooden stems for the bush...

Haha careful! That's Milaana that can float and survive water more easily, though Zion is plenty portable its still not quite as durable

 

[killick]

So far, so good. I really don't think there works be much of an issue if Zion got dunked. A good dry out session and fresh batteries and I'm kinda thinking all would be fine.

There is a reason I avoid excess gadgets... They fail faster and more often. Especially for me

 

[Shit Snacks]

So far, so good. I really don't think there works be much of an issue if Zion got dunked. A good dry out session and fresh batteries and I'm kinda thinking all would be fine.

There is a reason I avoid excess gadgets... They fail faster and more often. Especially for me

Yes the only risk is to the electronics section above batteries, the control top with knob potentiometer and chip, so if fully dunked there would definitely be some issues though. Its more like water resistant vs waterproof Milaana

 

[MrPeanut]

FYI. Water damage is not covered by any warranty