Discontinued Zion vaporizer

[HellsWindStaff]

so I do believe that the noise on the WWW is just a couple of angry people working hard to smear RBT and that is unfortunate.

I Feel compelled to answer because I chimed in on reddit thread. Reading it at this hour, I have 2 of the top 3 comments on that thread (some may say a way with words ), so maybe I can address something?

Was debating posting even but I had users private message me thanks (both on here, and reddit) last time for saying what was ultimately on their mind......shame they feel they couldn't comment without fear of an attack. Let that sit and simmer....So, I am also doing it for all those people too, because, I have no vested interest either way, just my perspective, from reading both perspectives. Don't like people feeling like they can't say what's on their mind.

Unfortunately, it took awhile for me to get my thoughts down properly and concisely (it does feel more like walking on egg shells in this thread than others...). I don't want to go off topic or begrude the mood, so I tagged the book and broke it down into chapters If you don't want to read it, simply, don't. Not my intention to annoy anyone. I think it does a good job though of underlying why people are upset/annoyed. A bit long, which is why I did break it down.....if you think it's not for you, don't click.

Actually, post was too long, and my formatting got wonky splitting it in two posts, so I just put all my thoughts in this document. Even easier for you to ignore if you want too, but I think it summarizes things nicely.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-2Q4AH1KX_gMkNzxHPiewAzgiEG-dCBZkZ79YtBgbD4/edit?usp=sharing

Cheers to you all. Hope I don't see a reddit thread like that again. While you can't stop it, you can take actions to minimize these occurances. Can't spell it out for you totally though.

 

[AJS]

I Feel compelled to answer because I chimed in on reddit thread. Reading it at this hour, I have 2 of the top 3 comments on that thread (some may say a way with words ), so maybe I can address something?

Was debating posting even but I had users private message me thanks (both on here, and reddit) last time for saying what was ultimately on their mind......shame they feel they couldn't comment without fear of an attack. Let that sit and simmer....So, I am also doing it for all those people too, because, I have no vested interest either way, just my perspective, from reading both perspectives. Don't like people feeling like they can't say what's on their mind.

Unfortunately, it took awhile for me to get my thoughts down properly and concisely (it does feel more like walking on egg shells in this thread than others...). I don't want to go off topic or begrude the mood, so I tagged the book and broke it down into chapters If you don't want to read it, simply, don't. Not my intention to annoy anyone. I think it does a good job though of underlying why people are upset/annoyed. A bit long, which is why I did break it down.....if you think it's not for you, don't click.

Actually, post was too long, and my formatting got wonky splitting it in two posts, so I just put all my thoughts in this document. Even easier for you to ignore if you want too, but I think it summarizes things nicely.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-2Q4AH1KX_gMkNzxHPiewAzgiEG-dCBZkZ79YtBgbD4/edit?usp=sharing

Cheers to you all. Hope I don't see a reddit thread like that again. While you can't stop it, you can take actions to minimize these occurances. Can't spell it out for you totally though.

While I have not personally had any issues with RBT, most things mentioned in this write-up, I have heard mentioned from others, either in conversation or on this thread.
I think it would be wise for RBT to read over this write-up, and at least consider some of the things he could have possibly done better. I'm not saying he did anything wrong, I'm just saying to look back and reflect, and see how we can move forward through this.

I believe if this is addressed promptly and respectfully, RBT can gain the loyalty of customers who may be doubting him, and this thread can jump a great step in the right direction.

On a more positive note, it has been exactly two weeks since I've ordered my Zion, and the overwhelming anticipation is becoming slightly easier to deal with. I've read over 100 pages since my order, and it's incredible to see how this page has progressed. I recommend, if you haven't, to look over this thread. Skim past the details that aren't necessary if you wish (I read pretty much every word, though), and just really see the evolution of the Zion. The input from the customers as well as TKW and RBT truly created a bond between a select few that seems impossible to break.

Try to understand where other's are coming from!
Keep things respectful and honest, and things can only get better.
Peace!

 

[grokit]

It sounds to me like customer service isn't really in rbt's wheelhouse. Which may be the reason why he won't be selling vaporizers after the end of the month? I really don't think it's anything to get worked up about. I believe the 60-day cutoff is more about paypal's policies than it is about a spurious decision on the seller's end. I can see why some are pissed, but just grab your refund and get back to the sidelines. Being an early backer for a random mad genius's homemade vaporizer on a cult forum isn't for everybody!

 

[srama21]

I would like to reinforce @AJS' sentiments. A little empathy can go a long way on both sides. I don't think either side is just right or wrong. I'm willing to bet there is A LOT of common ground among the feuding parties (both in regards to this conflict and overall). We're all on the same team!

Jah Bless

 

[Fission]

It sounds to me like customer service isn't really in rbt's wheelhouse. Which may be the reason why he won't be selling vaporizers after the end of the month? I really don't think it's anything to get worked up about. I believe the 60-day cutoff is more about paypal's policies than it is about a spurious decision on the seller's end. I can see why some are pissed, but just grab your refund and get back to the sidelines. Being an early backer for a random mad genius's homemade vaporizer on a cult forum isn't for everybody!

Given that some customers ordered before the 60 day cutoff was implemented, and there have been significant delays in production, I don't think it is unreasonable for people who are asking for refunds to ask RBT to pay the paypal fee himself. Regardless of whether people should have expected delays, many were promised October (and by this I mean explicitly told they would receive the units during/before October). Maybe it was unwise for people to believe that, but if they were promised a specific date, and want a refund because of that, then they really shouldn't have to pay fees for the refund.

I would like to reinforce @AJS' sentiments. A little empathy can go a long way on both sides. I don't think either side is just right or wrong. I'm willing to bet there is A LOT of common ground among the feuding parties (both in regards to this conflict and overall). We're all on the same team!

Jah Bless

I agree completely, empathy has been sorely needed in on several occasions in this thread, as far as I can tell from my POV.

 

[mephisto]

I wonder if anyone can pass along the correct contact method for a down unit......My #18 has stopped heating and I did the FAQ shuffle at RBT headquarters. So now I don't know who else to tell that I am missing my dear Irene and she has not even left yet. Don't want to add any negativity, just want to "get right". Thanks in advance.

 

[IAmKrazy2]

You know your Zion is working correctly when... You pack a chunk of nug in the wrong end of the glass vapor tube. Whoops. But it blew out really easily and into the correct side it went...

Sorry to anyone who is having issues. When working, so amazing but obviously no one wants to deal with that. Hope everyone is squared away quickly.

 

[MrPeanut]

When did you contact him?

 

[thekarmawhore]

The official means of contact are PayPal or rastabuddatao.net website I hear.

 

[Shit Snacks]

I wonder if anyone can pass along the correct contact method for a down unit......My #18 has stopped heating and I did the FAQ shuffle at RBT headquarters. So now I don't know who else to tell that I am missing my dear Irene and she has not even left yet. Don't want to add any negativity, just want to "get right". Thanks in advance.

Oh I thought you had already emailed and shipped it back to RBT's PO box. I think he posted the address earlier. You can try waiting to get him on the phone first if you want to be sure it needs to be sent in (if you email and leave your number I'm sure he'll give you a ring to discuss like he did with @Madcap79 recently). Good luck man, I am hoping your issue is simple and swiftly rectified like the others... It's tough once you get that first taste!

 

[jojo monkey]

"Two have been returned and diagnosed with the mounting adhesive leaking into voltage knob fixing it in the lower power position."

That sucks. That means that nobody turned the knob before it left.

The electronics are completely isolated from the airpath.

What materials are in the airpath? Steel for the heater, mica to hold it, some adhesive, and glass?

 

[Fission]

Just requested a refund. I've been feeling uneasy with the recent failures of units, and I've been left feeling like it was going to be a while before I got my Zion, so I've decided to go with the Venus Apollo instead, for the moment at least. That said, I still think the Zion is in my future, when things have settled down a bit and there are fewer bumps in production. I'll be interested to do a comparison between the two, I'm sure. They both seem like beasts. I expect I'll stick around here still. Hopefully the refund will go smoothly.

 

[Shit Snacks]

That sucks. That means that nobody turned the knob before it left.



What materials are in the airpath? Steel for the heater, mica to hold it, some adhesive, and glass?

No adhesive in the airpath, just wood inlet hole, steel and mica for heater (maybe some glass) then glass stems and steel mesh screens

Sad to see you go @Fission, but the Apollo looks awesome too, though very different, I know it is on my wish list for the future as well

 

[MrPeanut]

Stainless, mica, glass, wood

 

[HD Springer]

It's amazing to see the Vas that swallows us vaporists up. The way I see it we have 2 types of people inflicted with Vas. Those that seek to end Vas with the perfect vaporizer (I fall into this category) and those that have already come to terms that our vas wil not and never will or can be cured.
I was on a hunt for that perfect vaporizer for me. I've tried and used about 10 or so vaporizers and up and until I used the Zion I was alwaYs left feeling things could of been better. Seriously if I had found the Zion first I would of saved over $1200. Probably well over. So far the only vaporizer I still use on rare occasions is my Vapman. It has a strong enough signature to it. Is the Zion or even the Vapman perfect for all users. No. But they compliment each other perfectly for me.

 

[Madcap79]

"Two have been returned and diagnosed with the mounting adhesive leaking into voltage knob fixing it in the lower power position." Is there any way that this can leak into the heating chamber/heater, causing me to be vaping adhesive? Please explain this, as it is very unsettling.

Where was the temp knob issue discussed? I haven't heard a peep since mine arrived back at HQ.

 

[srama21]

Progress update on the RBT website @Madcap79

Here's the update:
Progress Update 02-22-2016

Customer Service / Marketing
There have been several failures in the field. Some are minor and do not require the return of the unit such as magnets coming unglued, wood dust in the cap shaking loose in shipping, broken mouthpiece, and missing items. Three required the units to be returned. Two have been returned and diagnosed with the mounting adhesive leaking into the voltage knob fixing it in the low power position. The third is in transit and should be received this week. As we head into the final week of the FC Give-away sales slowed slightly to 3 units last week.

Zion Update
Two units exhibit heater warm-up issues in in repair and will be returned this week
Units 25 - 35 are being held at final assembly until the third unit is returned an autopsied to determine cause of death
This delay is anticipated to be 1 week depending on return shipping time
This will ensure that the current issue is not duplicated in the field. All other units are running as expected.

Milaana Update
A well known FC manufacture will be making the wooden body for Milaana and tooling and wood is on order.
The initial fleet of 5 Beta units have the wood bodies completed and are starting final assembly and are expected to start shipping on 2/26

Supply Chain / Manufacturing Update
The production line at our US manufacturing sight starts today. A general contractor is installing the routers and sanders to do the final wood finishing. The assembly line for Milaana is the first assembly work cell being set-up as parts shortages in Zion wood and electrical harnesses continue to slow down Zion production. Labor has been added to speed the manufacturing of the Zion components so full scale production should only be a 3 - 4 weeks behind Milaana.
Slow output of Zion wooden bodies and electrical harnesses with our current suppliers has*****


The update ends there as far as i can tell

 

[Madcap79]

Ahh, yeah, I guess I should check on there although I figured I'd get an email telling me the issue. That's what I get for assuming.....

 

[Shit Snacks]

Ahh, yeah, I guess I should check on there although I figured I'd get an email telling me the issue. That's what I get for assuming.....

Yeah I believe it to just be a time shortage delaying the update on your Zion. I heard he checked it out over the weekend, seems he may have already fixed it and is ready to ship them back. I think you and @little maggie will have them back and better than ever very soon

Hopefully mephisto has an easy fix as well... At least these can now be avoided for the apparently imminent upscaled mass production

Nice that Milaana and Zion will be launching together, now that's what I call a complete product line (except where's the actual plugin desktop model?! )

 

[mephisto]

@Madcap79 can you tell me what method you used to reach RBT. I need to send #18 back. I sent a message thru the RBT FAQ area and that was 3-4 days ago. Thanks for any response.

 

[pakalolo]

I wonder if anyone can pass along the correct contact method for a down unit......My #18 has stopped heating and I did the FAQ shuffle at RBT headquarters. So now I don't know who else to tell that I am missing my dear Irene and she has not even left yet. Don't want to add any negativity, just want to "get right". Thanks in advance.

RBT's update gave me the impression that he thinks you've already shipped yours back. He posted instructions and his address earlier in the thread. (Post 4773)

 

[Madcap79]

@Madcap79 can you tell me what method you used to reach RBT. I need to send #18 back. I sent a message thru the RBT FAQ area and that was 3-4 days ago. Thanks for any response.

PM'd

Yeah I believe it to just be a time shortage delaying the update on your Zion. I heard he checked it out over the weekend, seems he may have already fixed it and is ready to ship them back. I think you and @little maggie will have them back and better than ever very soon

Hopefully mephisto has an easy fix as well... At least these can now be avoided for the apparently imminent upscaled mass production

Nice that Milaana and Zion will be launching together, now that's what I call a complete product line (except where's the actual plugin desktop model?! )

Not concerned about timeline really. Just the knowledge of what was wrong/fixed for my own curiosity.

 

[VegNVape]

Really sorry for you folks that are having issues. I know there are some feelings of uncertainty out there - but seriously, give RBT some room, respect and positive vibes, and things'll come good.

I am sure of it. This vape is destined for greatness.

Hang on in there guys.

And sorry to see you go @Fission - but I certainly hope that you find what you need and you enjoy the V.A.

Anyway, not wanting to rub it in for those without . . . really I don't, but I just took Vyvyan to water with my DHgate shhhmobius bubbler for the first time . . . . and wow!

I am really impressed!

I am easily getting three to four huge milky style rips on 70-75% power. And these are really clouding up - I was thinking oh no combut..but no!

No real technique required - just the usual steady draw, so with the matrix perc it's an absolute dream because I always find it particularly well suited to pulling those dense convection rips.

Yet more proof of the Zion's desktop-like capabilities.

It also reminds me of the thick hits I get through my Lily & wpa.

I was astonished at the speed & density achieved from a cold start. Yes, Vyvyan continues to amaze . . . and of course, melt my face . . .

Woah!

PeaceNRespect2All.

 

[Andreaerdna]

@VegNVape You know respect is something mutual.
If you show no respect for your customers isn't easy to get some back from them.

Answering a question is a basic step to show respect for me. if you don't do it and worst you have a business suspended or delayed, this unpolite behaviour will hurt your brand and product, not only your reputation.

Edit please can you remove the epilectic animation, it hurts the eyes

 

[VegNVape]

Hey hey

@VegNVape You know respect is something mutual.

Agreed, but RBT is the one with the ideas & the ability to create what is imo a game changing vaporizer. Not me, and not you.

And because of what he is doing, and because of all the effort that he has put in to get things to where they are today, I believe that he deserves a little bit of extra leeway, in many ways. I understand, & can appreciate what kind of position he might be in. And I know that I am willing, if not more than happy to make allowances to hopefully help RBT to achieve his goals with regards to this vaporizer.

But that is just me, and my previous post really was not meant to provoke, it was merely an attempt in some small way to try to reassure those with uncertainties, that RBT will come through for them & make good.

Because I am a customer too you know - and I do generally know what it's like to have questions go unanswered & experience delays.

I just want people to know that RBT will eventually get everything set straight so that his customers are more than happy.

These experiences can be turned around.

But obviously you don't have to believe me.

And my apologies for the image, I hate to think that I hurt your eyes! Although you do realise that you did not have to look at it But I do hope that it now appears less fit inducing?


Wishing you a wonderful day out there, wherever it may take you!


PeaceLoveÑPositivity.

VnV