Discontinued Zion vaporizer

[VegNVape]

Wha? Did something happen?

Oh sorry, I must've missed it - I've had my headphones on, in the zone bumpin' away to this Zionistik heartbeat of a vaporizer, and ain't nothing upsetting my groove . . . .


Keep on chugging down the track y'all.
CHOO CHOO!

See you at the next station!

OneLove.

 

[RastaBuddhaTao]

Thanks for all the encouraging words and yes! lets drive the Zion train to the next stop!

I spent much of last weekend doing side by side comparisons of Pak's P2 (production unit #2) and 2x4#2. The end result is that initially the 2x4 is slightly cooler and the vapor is slightly thicker. Another way said is that P2 is a little hot and the vapor a little wispy. However, once warmed up the vapor quality was comparable. We have a good understanding of the variables at play and are in the process of building a plan to address the issues and will post it on the www this weekend.

Pak's unit was subjected to impact, over temperature, over current and short circuit test which all went well. After running the unit for a week it also appeared to run slightly better after the break-in which we have our theories on.

So, in the spirit of continual full disclosure Pak's initial unit Jessica stopped working on him. Given that it's his daily driver I shipped him the P2 unit that is not quite up to par (call it 95%) so that he has a usable Zion. It will also give him the chance to review all of the updates as well as test the low end performance of the latest configuration. As we all know, Pak will want at least a week with it before he makes any public comments. However, I have asked the Z-Team to post more here and less in the PM to try and keep all efforts front and center.

So, to get things started... Have any other Beta testers experienced a change in vapor quality, shift in temperature, inefficiencies or changes in your Beta units? I know that when Shit drops his he noticed a reduction in the vapor quality?

Please do be aware that most of the Beta units to my knowledge have functioned without issue and 2X4#2 is still going strong after months of use. I believe that the early units where over heated and generally abused in the Beta testing process and therefore I expect to experience some failures. Our core chip is from a highly respected name in the industry and has proven to be bullet proof when assembled correctly. With that said, if you are uncomfortable at anytime in the process please submit a request for a refund on our www.

For the rest of us lets look forward to Pak's new girl and the autopsy of his beloved Jessica... Don't worry Pak, we will get her all fixed up for you as I know you have formed a bond that will last for life.

I took a minute to stop by the park on a nice day and take a few pics of P2 before I dropped her in the mail to Pak... wonder what her name will be?

http://www.rastabuddhatao.net/zion

 

[ApparentlyStoned]

Nice. Always good to get an update. I wish 7th floor was offering refunds like you. No way I'm not getting a Zion.

 

[vapen00b]

Hey RBT,

thanks for keeping us posted!
Choo chooo...First Zion train is departing, next stop @pakalolo station. Good times!

Beautiful new pics you got on your site... one seems to be upside down. But thanks to @VegNVape we all know the Zion is a beauty from every angle and perspective.

May all good vibes be with you and accompany you doing yer fanastic work!
As always, take your take and enjoy the breaks.. hope you're in balance.
All the best, pal
Peace y'all

 

[Shit Snacks]

Thanks for all the encouraging words and yes! lets drive the Zion train to the next stop!

I spent much of last weekend doing side by side comparisons of Pak's P2 (production unit #2) and 2x4#2. The end result is that initially the 2x4 is slightly cooler and the vapor is slightly thicker. Another way said is that P2 is a little hot and the vapor a little wispy. However, once warmed up the vapor quality was comparable. We have a good understanding of the variables at play and are in the process of building a plan to address the issues and will post it on the www this weekend.

Pak's unit was subjected to impact, over temperature, over current and short circuit test which all went well. After running the unit for a week it also appeared to run slightly better after the break-in which we have our theories on.

So, in the spirit of continual full disclosure Pak's initial unit Jessica stopped working on him. Given that it's his daily driver I shipped him the P2 unit that is not quite up to par (call it 95%) so that he has a usable Zion. It will also give him the chance to review all of the updates as well as test the low end performance of the latest configuration. As we all know, Pak will want at least a week with it before he makes any public comments. However, I have asked the Z-Team to post more here and less in the PM to try and keep all efforts front and center.

So, to get things started... Have any other Beta testers experienced a change in vapor quality, shift in temperature, inefficiencies or changes in your Beta units? I know that when Shit drops his he noticed a reduction in the vapor quality?

Please do be aware that most of the Beta units to my knowledge have functioned without issue and 2X4#2 is still going strong after months of use. I believe that the early units where over heated and generally abused in the Beta testing process and therefore I expect to experience some failures. Our core chip is from a highly respected name in the industry and has proven to be bullet proof when assembled correctly. With that said, if you are uncomfortable at anytime in the process please submit a request for a refund on our www.

For the rest of us lets look forward to Pak's new girl and the autopsy of his beloved Jessica... Don't worry Pak, we will get her all fixed up for you as I know you have formed a bond that will last for life.

I took a minute to stop by the park on a nice day and take a few pics of P2 before I dropped her in the mail to Pak... wonder what her name will be?

http://www.rastabuddhatao.net/zion

I'll be getting Ziggy packed up this weekend to ship out to you Monday. I imagine fixing the short circuit from when I put the batteries in backwards shouldn't be too difficult to fix like DieHard's, but yeah curious to hear what you make of the inside as well post drop per our vapor quality talks... Also wondering if leaving him in my car almost every day of summer in such a humid region affected things as well.

And guys, with all this vapor quality talk, even when I felt like I noticed mine declining, it was still all I wanted to use. So this is very subjective, nitpicking for the ultimate experience, and should be a huge positive that the goal is to make each Zion the same amazing standard set by the initial models. I had to buy a Cloud Evo really just because i miss my Zion daily driver so damn much... Can't wait to have it back and better than ever!

Looking forward to Pak's thoughts, this is his first mica insulator Zion too isn't it? So his last one was closer to the 2x4s right?

 

[RastaBuddhaTao]

Nice. Always good to get an update. I wish 7th floor was offering refunds like you. No way I'm not getting a Zion.

Right on, grab a Zion, get Schwifty!

Yeh, picture is upside down for The Dude

Yeh there are cloud chasers... Me, I'm a vapor chaser and the small changes to quality we are talking about are only noticeable to the finicky few.

Jessica was a glass insulator running at a higher voltage and tuned to a lower temperature. The new unit is much faster and hotter... Honestly I'm on the edge of my seat as much as anyone waiting to hear the Z-Team's convection vapor master's thoughts.

Slight chance he gets it tomorrow but more likely Monday or Tuesday. @stickstones your next

 

[pakalolo]

Since @RastaBuddhaTao has mentioned it here, I'm no longer obligated to confine discussing Jessica's demise to the beta team.

The failure was intermittent at first. Although she was heating up, she would not reach vapourizing temperatures. I was about to send her back for analysis when I decided to do one final test so I could describe the problem properly. Wonder of wonders, part way through the test she started working properly again. Unfortunately, a few days later she failed permanently.

Jessica is one of the earliest builds and has been heavily used. In particular, I've almost exclusively used an Arizer elbow screen, something RBT has never liked and has now declared verboten. One reason is that the rim adds pressure on the bowl screen and could displace it, leading to internal problems. I don't know that this was the cause of Jessica's problem but it is certainly a possibility. I think this failure is not likely in other units, else one of the other testers would have encountered it by now. We'll see what the postmortem uncovers.

 

[darkrom]

What were you getting out of the screen as far as benefits @pakalolo ? What made you choose to use that in the first place?

 

[pakalolo]

What were you getting out of the screen as far as benefits @pakalolo ? What made you choose to use that in the first place?

It was just right to hold the size of load I prefer, and it made it really easy to move the load. When you are testing, this is a big help.

 

[cybrguy]

It also make it easier to stir without moving the screen. I think RBT is making the screens a little bigger now which should help them stay in place better.

 

[KeroZen]

Have any other Beta testers experienced a change in vapor quality, shift in temperature, inefficiencies or changes in your Beta units?

One day I experienced a decline in quantity: the device was hot but I got no vapor... I started freaking out...

Then after unloading I looked at my stem screen, and it was completely clogged. Grabbed a clean one and Ashton was as good as new!



Also beware that if you guys (other beta testers) are using yours as much as mine, then we're already taking a toll on our battery cells. I got two pairs in rotation and deplete about one pair per day. I didn't measure their IR but I'm pretty sure they are in the downards slow aging part of their life, way beyond the break-in period where they had a lot of punch. Not bad, but let's say not as fresh as new. This could have an impact on the perceived decline.

But to be honnest I didn't notice any real loss. Still using the same settings, still getting as much vapor. Nothing to report in that area.

 

[HD Springer]

I always thought I'd like the basket type screen better than RBT's screen set up mainly because that's what I've always used in my eq. But I found that I like the RBT screens better. In fact I use RBT's screens in all my stem load vaporizers now. They are pretty damn stout and hold their shapes real well.
Love the pics on the website RBT. The production Zion looks sweet as hell. Looking forward to pak's review once he has time to see what she can really do.

 

[TheDudeNextDoor]

Right on, grab a Zion, get Schwifty!

Yeh, picture is upside down for The Dude

 

[Tommy10]

Any chance of stems with glass screens? Like the solo? I find removeable screens put such a dampener on my experience, big reason the hammer doesn't get used like it should.

 

[IAmKrazy2]

Any chance of stems with glass screens? Like the solo? I find removeable screens put such a dampener on my experience, big reason the hammer doesn't get used like it should.

Preference thing i guess because i hate the glass screens of the solo. I hate sucking through little bits down a stem into my lungs. I ended up putting screens in the Solo stems back when i still had one. I feel adding a SS screen to the vapor path effects the taste a negligible amount IMO.

 

[Shit Snacks]

Preference thing i guess because i hate the glass screens of the solo. I hate sucking through little bits down a stem into my lungs. I ended up putting screens in the Solo stems back when i still had one. I feel adding a SS screen to the vapor path effects the taste a negligible amount IMO.

Yeah, and Solo could be packed tighter too bc of its convection.

I happen to preger glass too though, just a better glass screen, the E-Nano all glass stems seem better, never tried though.

That being said as someone who hates ss mesh screens, I actually really liked the Zion screens. Much more than EQ baskets...

But I believe we have to keep them non basket style for production versions, which will be tought for me an @KeroZen to get used too...

 

[peaceonearth]

I hope there's not a lot of having to dicker with screens. Including all the pipe years, been fighting with them all my long life! But sucking in bits of material sucks. So I'm glad it uses SS screens, but hope they stay very well in place.

 

[Hot Dog Day 187]

I dont know if I cant bring myself to purchase an item called "zion" but i would be lying if I didn't have my eye on this for quite a while.

 

[RastaBuddhaTao]

Kero has a great point. Sometimes it's just that full extraction is achieved and that can be the reason for a drop in vapor production. The grind size, material, pack density, and more important screen cleanliness have big effects on vapor quality.

Pak is right that the screen getting dislodged by a screen that protrudes beyond the end of the mouthpiece glass will not allow the taper to seat or will push the heater screen in. In my experience this will not lead to a failure but rather just create a crevice that material can build up in. It isn't a big concern as it doesn't burn I guess it's just annoying to have to clean out load material from it.

The good news is I am working with a screen manufacturing company that can make what ever we dream up. Once we get the Zion comfortably into production we will start working on optimizing the loading.

I believe we have fixed the issue that Shit saw as we have perform impact testing on all 6 axis and didn't see any issue. We believe it to be a soft short in the heater which has been address by geometry changes.

The recent change that we made to increase the screen diameter by .015" was to ensure that the screen stays in place when you stir.

 

[cybrguy]

But I believe we have to keep them non basket style for production versions, which will be tought for me an @KeroZen to get used too...

I haven't figured out why that would matter at this point, unless it is to be sure nothing sticks out from the joint. I imagine RBT will tell us why.

 

[Tommy10]

I too put a SS screen in my solo, but I love the back glass screen so nothing dislodges when poking around stirring and such. If a screen moves out of place for me 9/10 times I get another vape out and fix that at a much later date! Truely hate it! Haha. Out of the two hammer stems and the gong only one has a screen left... Once it moves I dunno what I'll do.

 

[phattpiggie]

So if the Arizer baskets put pressure on the heater screens then why not just shorten the male taper by the thickness of the basket rim? The seal isn't compromised and if you like the baskets you can keep using them. The taper is 22mm long so in theory you could adjust the load to heater distance as can be done with the RBT screens. Just not to the same degree.

 

[cybrguy]

So if the Arizer baskets put pressure on the heater screens then why not just shorten the male taper by the thickness of the basket rim? The seal isn't compromised and if you like the baskets you can keep using them. The taper is 22mm long so in theory you could adjust the load to heater distance as can be done with the RBT screens. Just not to the same degree.

It's just too soon to tell and we will wait for more complete explanations as to how this might be handled or worked around. There may be more to this than just the length. If it IS just an issue of length than I may well find someone who can cut a mm or 2 from the US joint on one of my M2Ms and just always use that with my water pieces.
We'll get back to this when we have more info. For now I am sure the Zion screens will be fine.

 

[Shit Snacks]

Curious, since @RBT said that Pak is shipped and @Shit Snacks is next, are we at the step of getting the Beta testers their production units so they can "give the final ok" before moving onto full production? Just curious how far back your original timeline has been pushed because of this vapor quality "issue". Like can we hope for non-beta orders to be shipped this month? Or we talking way longer?

Don't think I'm next, sticks is, but hopefully I'm not far behind, miss my favorite DD!

@cybrguy I agree I don't know the issue with using basket style exactly, but RBT mentioned it in the beta thread...

Never once had an issue with a sliding screen using that set up, it fits snug and works great with a cm glass rim, can pack a full .25g ish bowl or as little .05g and both worked great. You can pack more with the screen the other way around but it had those little crevices Kero mentioned, not flat like an E-Nano screen but the final versions may have resolved this.

I felt EQ screens were too fine, and cumbersome the way they over hang, the Zion screens put in basket style fit snug and never need to be removed practically. Perfect courseness, crazy durable, I'm sure we'll be in good hands for the final versions

 

[fyx]

Don't think I'm next, sticks is, but hopefully I'm not far behind, miss my favorite DD!

@cybrguy I agree I don't know the issue with using basket style exactly, but RBT mentioned it in the beta thread...

Never once had an issue with a sliding screen using that set up, it fits snug and works great with a cm glass rim, can pack a full .25g ish bowl or as little .05g and both worked great. You can pack more with the screen the other way around but it had those little crevices Kero mentioned, not flat like an E-Nano screen but the final versions may have resolved this.

I felt EQ screens were too fine, and cumbersome the way they over hang, the Zion screens put in basket style fit snug and never need to be removed practically. Perfect courseness, crazy durable, I'm sure we'll be in good hands for the final versions

You're right, my bad. Still hoping for Zions for Xmas