cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
Well, I guarantee you aren't looking forward to it any more than I am. I got a good idea of what she is capable of, and am ready to give her another test run. I love my Lotus, but the torch seems so passe'...
Discontinued Zion vaporizer
- Thread starter lwien
- Start date
Just wanted to thank all of those who placed their pre-orders and wanted to remind everyone that there is only one week left for the FC pre-order. Starting on 6/26 we will be removing the international shipping option and raising the price 15 - 25% to cover the cost of additional features so Act Now!
little maggie
Well-Known Member
I already ordered but your post has me curious- what are the additional features that are going to be on the ones post pre-order?
We will be adding a master power switch as an additional layer of protection. Even with the recessed button there still is a chance of the button being depressed. We will be adding a resettable fuse as an added layer of protection (see 18650 battery thread). These batteries have the potential to be dangerous and we are designing multiple fail safes to protect our customers. By popular demand we will also add an integrated stir stick between the heater and the mouthpiece. Additional steps will be taken in the the manufacturing process to perfect the esthetics of the wood body and improve the purity of the flow path (see Vapor Purity thread) With the Beta10 testing under way we will have more learning which will no doubt lead to more refinement and hopefully not much more material / manufacturing cost as our mission is to stay 20% under the cost of our competition so we will hold the line at $169 and will sacrifice margin if additional cost occur.
KeroZen
Chronic vapaholic
We don't need no stinkin' stir stick! 
Honnestly, I don't stir and the ABV is uniform enough for me. For sure it's not monochrome like in a conduction/radiant vape, but as I said previously in the beta thread, I don't feel stirring is worth the effort: you can get what? One or two extra wispy hits at best? I tried several times loading the ABV from Ashton in other vapes and it was never satisfying, I felt I lost my time.
Really to me it's not necessary. Besides, it's really easy to stir if you really want to. I use my metal poking tool I got from another vape, scrap the load to make it fall on the desk, stir it with two fingers, then use suction with the straw to load it back again. You could also stir it in place depending on how deep you put your stem screen...
The master switch and fuse are a much welcome addition. Just add the low battery LED to the list and it would be purrrrfect!
Honnestly, I don't stir and the ABV is uniform enough for me. For sure it's not monochrome like in a conduction/radiant vape, but as I said previously in the beta thread, I don't feel stirring is worth the effort: you can get what? One or two extra wispy hits at best? I tried several times loading the ABV from Ashton in other vapes and it was never satisfying, I felt I lost my time.
Really to me it's not necessary. Besides, it's really easy to stir if you really want to. I use my metal poking tool I got from another vape, scrap the load to make it fall on the desk, stir it with two fingers, then use suction with the straw to load it back again. You could also stir it in place depending on how deep you put your stem screen...
The master switch and fuse are a much welcome addition. Just add the low battery LED to the list and it would be purrrrfect!
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We don't need no stinkin' stir stick!
Honnestly, I don't stir and the ABV is uniform enough for me. For sure it's not monochrome like in a conduction/radiant vape, but as I said previously in the beta thread, I don't feel stirring is worth the effort: you can get what? One or two extra wispy hits at best? I tried several times loading the ABV from Ashton in other vapes and it was never satisfying, I felt I lost my time.
Really to me it's not necessary. Besides, it's really easy to stir if you really want to. I use my metal poking tool I got from another vape, scrap the load to make it fall on the desk, stir it with two fingers, then use suction with the straw to load it back again. You could also stir it in place depending on how deep you put your stem screen...
The master switch and fuse are a much welcome addition. Just add the low battery LED to the list and it would be purrrrfect!
I think I would probably agree with you Kero, it seems rather unnecessary. But as RBT said, it was by popular demand and you know how people are, they see a space and they want to fill it
- especially if it means they get a little something extra to play with.But it is kind of a nice touch even if it isn't considered required, and I guess some people will find it usefull while others forget about it or else just lose it.
Whatever, they are all very encouraging words from @RastaBuddhaTao.
Tweak tweak tweak
We don't need no stinkin' stir stick!
Honnestly, I don't stir and the ABV is uniform enough for me. For sure it's not monochrome like in a conduction/radiant vape, but as I said previously in the beta thread, I don't feel stirring is worth the effort: you can get what? One or two extra wispy hits at best? I tried several times loading the ABV from Ashton in other vapes and it was never satisfying, I felt I lost my time.
Really to me it's not necessary. Besides, it's really easy to stir if you really want to. I use my metal poking tool I got from another vape, scrap the load to make it fall on the desk, stir it with two fingers, then use suction with the straw to load it back again. You could also stir it in place depending on how deep you put your stem screen...
The master switch and fuse are a much welcome addition. Just add the low battery LED to the list and it would be purrrrfect!
I think the usefulness of stirring varies by user. I tend to hit it at a particular power setting until the vapour production drops off, then I'll stir the load and get one or two more hits at that setting. When it drops again I turn it up and repeat the process. I can't say how many more hits this provides, if any, but I can say it gives me more hits at a lower power setting than I get without stirring.
I use Arizer elbow screens, which are fairly shallow and can't be recessed into the stem. It's not easy to stir them if they're full. I'm not sure a stirring stick would help, but I'd be willing to try. I don't care much about the switch and fuse. I really would like to see an LED implemented, but to be honest, it would only serve as a reassurance that the power is on. Given the nature of Li-ion batteries, the LED will start to go dim only when the battery is within a few seconds of going completely flat.
cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
So, my new Zion arrived Saturday, and so as to avoid any identity crises I have named her Venus. I picture her in blue jeans...
I have not had a lot of time to work with her this weekend but some. Whereas Ellie ran somewhat cool, Venus runs somewhat hot. This is better, as I can still get those great cooler flavor hits but I can bring on the heat when I want it. Getting the best hits is a learning process as there are a lot of variables, so I continue to work on this.
I do find I need to stir as, especially at higher temps, I can see that the center of the stem is getting more heat than the outside (the opposite of conduction). I like @KeroZen s method of stirring. This being my first stem piece I would have not thought of that and it may be better than stirring in place, tho that has mostly been fine for me. I will try this tonight. I DO like the hoover method of filling a stem, or the M2M.
I have mixed feeling about the integrated stir stick. There is probably room on the 'shelf' for a drill hole for a stick but it might tend to crowd it a bit. When the cap is off I have been leaving a stick attached to the cap magnet and that IS convenient. I'll reserve judgement until I see a drawing. Even with Kero's stir method we still need a stick to get the goods out of the stem.
I like the planned power updates. I also very much would like the low battery indicator, tho I am starting to get used to checking power occasionally by putting a battery in the charger. And the more I use it the more I am glad to have the digital readout on the charger.
I have not had a lot of time to work with her this weekend but some. Whereas Ellie ran somewhat cool, Venus runs somewhat hot. This is better, as I can still get those great cooler flavor hits but I can bring on the heat when I want it. Getting the best hits is a learning process as there are a lot of variables, so I continue to work on this.
I do find I need to stir as, especially at higher temps, I can see that the center of the stem is getting more heat than the outside (the opposite of conduction). I like @KeroZen s method of stirring. This being my first stem piece I would have not thought of that and it may be better than stirring in place, tho that has mostly been fine for me. I will try this tonight. I DO like the hoover method of filling a stem, or the M2M.
I have mixed feeling about the integrated stir stick. There is probably room on the 'shelf' for a drill hole for a stick but it might tend to crowd it a bit. When the cap is off I have been leaving a stick attached to the cap magnet and that IS convenient. I'll reserve judgement until I see a drawing. Even with Kero's stir method we still need a stick to get the goods out of the stem.
I like the planned power updates. I also very much would like the low battery indicator, tho I am starting to get used to checking power occasionally by putting a battery in the charger. And the more I use it the more I am glad to have the digital readout on the charger.
I've gotten the impression that this low price is a great motivator for RBT. He wants Zion to be accessible to everyone and not just high end vape customers. I applaud that...
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Yeah I always appreciate an included stir stick especially if it slides seemlessly into the body like the Ascent. Even with vapes that don't need to be stirred I still find it useful to clear out a bowl, or a variety of other uses. And I can't say how much I will want to stir my Zion, so far every convection vape I've had required stirring so if Zion is different I am very excited for that as well (one of the Hoppers key benefits as well).
I also think the master switch ala firefly is great to have and less for battery level would be great, but only with like a bowls worth (~20%?) of warning or something so you can decide to kill it or recharge
Ah @cybrguy what I was half expecting, obviously your in the learning curve, but I wonder if heatet configuration should be in between your previous unit and this one?
Time and testing will tell all of course
I also think the master switch ala firefly is great to have and less for battery level would be great, but only with like a bowls worth (~20%?) of warning or something so you can decide to kill it or recharge
Ah @cybrguy what I was half expecting, obviously your in the learning curve, but I wonder if heatet configuration should be in between your previous unit and this one?
Time and testing will tell all of course
HD Springer
Well-Known Member
@pakalolo I have a question for you about the screen set ups. Do you notice a big difference in temp change/time needed on the button for the difference in location of the load. Does bringing the load closer to the heater make it harder to keep from combusting?
I know you have a diff heater set up then what we will be seeing. I was just wondering on proximity more than anything.
I know you have a diff heater set up then what we will be seeing. I was just wondering on proximity more than anything.
Yes, we are targeting a slightly cooler max temperature than @cybrguy has now that he has confirmed that Zenus has been tested by a high heat vaporist... Thanks CG! Units will resume shipment tomorrow.
Agreed the stir is a "nice to have" but the high temp guys will need to stir as you will brown the top on high. However, we will be eventually offering colored glass and choice of wood as an option so we could add the stir to on as an option.
The resettable fuses are required for a dead short failure more which is rare but still needs to be protected against. The master power switch is required as a fully charged set of batteries with an accidental button depression could damage the unit and it would get excessively hot. @MrPeanut has experienced accidental button depression while toting his Zion around the farm.
I appreciate everyone's input and love that the everyone is true to the mantra to keep the Zion simple.
Lots to discuss as the Beta 10 team grows this week.
KeroZen
Chronic vapaholic
I think I misunderstood, I thought the stir stick was some kind of integrated contraption... If that's only, well, a stick of some kind and its associated storage slot in the Zion body, then I got nothing against that.
It's true that high temp water tool users could need to stir more than I do. I should have added "with the way I'm using the Zion dry" to my previous post.
@HD Springer : I've never been worried about combusting with Ashton. I mean, in theory I'm sure it could combust if I really wanted to, but I would have to completely ignore all warning signs (very hot air hitting the throat, taste getting way past popcorny etc) and really insist for it to happen. Again if you have iron lungs and use a bong taller than your little sister, maybe you could get said warning signs only when it's too late... I dunno...
It's true that high temp water tool users could need to stir more than I do. I should have added "with the way I'm using the Zion dry" to my previous post.
@HD Springer : I've never been worried about combusting with Ashton. I mean, in theory I'm sure it could combust if I really wanted to, but I would have to completely ignore all warning signs (very hot air hitting the throat, taste getting way past popcorny etc) and really insist for it to happen. Again if you have iron lungs and use a bong taller than your little sister, maybe you could get said warning signs only when it's too late... I dunno...
HD Springer
Well-Known Member
As @KeroZen said, combustion isn't an issue with our units, and I strongly doubt it's a danger for @cybrguy even thought he has a hotter heater.
The warmup time isn't related to the load distance. The Zion always reaches roughly the same temperature for a given power knob setting, and the time it takes to reach that temperature doesn't vary much by power setting either.
Moving the load further back just gives the airflow more time to cool. You have to move it back several millimeters before you notice much difference. Since you've just spent valuable battery energy heating that airstream up, I don't see any good reason to let it cool down before it hits the load. The Arizer elbow screen keeps the load close to the heater, and that's why I like it. There is a good reason for a screen that can be moved back, however: it lets you have a bigger load.
I'm one of those who misunderstood the stir stick. I'm not really sure why, since my first reaction was, "How would that work?" A stir-stick/pick along the lines of the Ascent tool is a nice addition.
HD Springer
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the input. I'm needing to make decisions on my current set ups and I wasn't sure I was wanting to order more arizer elbow screens. I really do like them. They are very handy screens. You just need to find the right adapters that fit them good enough to not fall out into the heater. I like the stir stick idea also.
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
@thekarmawhore actually posted a mock up of said stir stick and slot several pages back. I believe it was also suggested it could absorb shock in a fall to help protect the glass parts...
KeroZen
Chronic vapaholic
@HD Springer : I'm using the screens RBT sent me with Ashton. They look like a small thimble. At first I played a bit with their position, but as Paka said you would have to move them relatively far away to have a significant effect. But yes, pushing them higher in the stem allows to load more material. It's just that their size happens to be perfect for my average load, so I have the screen flush with the stem end usually.
This would have to be verified but maybe if you get a serious "hot spot" problem, pushing the screen further away could move the load out of the hot air stream focus point and/or turbulence spot... but again, I don't have any hot spot problem (no charring, no tunneling, no black hole...)
I'm really impressed by how fast Ashton can get running when doing the fast pre-heat. It's too big to become my daily driver portable when I'm away from home, but when I'm here I don't hesitate twice to reach for it instead of my conduction devices. It occupies the position that the FlowerMate 8 failed to fulfill and it addresses all the griefs I had against my Firewood.
EDIT: @Shit Snacks I thought this was just a protection pin, I didn't understand it was removable and could be used as a stir stick.
This would have to be verified but maybe if you get a serious "hot spot" problem, pushing the screen further away could move the load out of the hot air stream focus point and/or turbulence spot... but again, I don't have any hot spot problem (no charring, no tunneling, no black hole...)
I'm really impressed by how fast Ashton can get running when doing the fast pre-heat. It's too big to become my daily driver portable when I'm away from home, but when I'm here I don't hesitate twice to reach for it instead of my conduction devices. It occupies the position that the FlowerMate 8 failed to fulfill and it addresses all the griefs I had against my Firewood.
EDIT: @Shit Snacks I thought this was just a protection pin, I didn't understand it was removable and could be used as a stir stick.
Well I was sick that day.
Pick on a man when he's down, why don't you. 
Just kick me as you pass. 
Everyone? or just Shit Snacks?
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Well I was sick that day.
I thought I was picking you back up!
With all the Zion testing i just presumed you merely forgot Pak
cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
I was looking for that. Do you have the page?
I had this happen last night. Thankfully it landed in my lap...
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Ah searched shock and found it on page 21. Tried to copy and paste the post link but it didn't work
cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
Thanks, @Shit Snacks I have such bad luck searching this forum I rarely use the search facility. My bad. I gotta get better at that.
It looks (to me) like a little more room in the image than in real life. That might be partially because they pulled them a little further out so one could more easily clean behind the heater, and partially an illusion. I think they may still be working on precisely positioning the holes as well. Regardless I'm sure it could be done, it might just be a little closer than that image suggests.
It looks (to me) like a little more room in the image than in real life. That might be partially because they pulled them a little further out so one could more easily clean behind the heater, and partially an illusion. I think they may still be working on precisely positioning the holes as well. Regardless I'm sure it could be done, it might just be a little closer than that image suggests.
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