I know you know this rule like the back of your hand, but I'm going to quote it for the rest of the readers.
From our forum rules:
Funny how that works....
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Discontinued Zion vaporizer
- Thread starter lwien
- Start date
From our forum rules:
EveryDayAmnesiac
Well-Known Member
I wish i could comment on this, but what the Mods say is the absolute end-all truth, so...
Here we are.
Long live FC, and the masterminds who decide what is okay and what isn't.
Here we are.
Long live FC, and the masterminds who decide what is okay and what isn't.
KeroZen
Chronic vapaholic
Provided you bought genuine ones, yes they work very well. Those are LG cells under the hood. The Samsung 25R are also good, this is what they used in the Herbstick Eco pen vape for instance.
In the end it doesn't matter if you get IMR or protected Li-Ions as long as they are rated at least for 20A continuous discharge. A protection circuit can buy you some peace of mind but it's not 100% bullet proof and can fail sometimes. IMRs have less risk of exploding if over charged or shorted but again it's not 100% secure and if you over discharge them they will just die (there's no mechanism to prevent that)
The Zion monitors the summed voltage of your two cells and will do a hard cutoff before that voltage goes down to 6V from memory (and it will do a power reduction before that point, RBT will confirm the exact figures) It should be fine unless your cells go severely out of balance, in which case you could have 6V = 2.5V + 3.5V, with cell 1 ending practically dead.
In this example it would be best to have protected cells as it could save cell 1. It would be borderline with the VapPower IMRs I listed because they can discharge to a minimum of 2.5V. But if you had non protected, non IMR cheap cells that can discharge say only down to 3.3V, you would have a dead cell (and a potentially dangerous situation)
To be really on the safe side, select cells with 20A++ discharge AND a minimum allowed voltage inferior to 3V. Get also a cheap voltmeter and monitor your voltages before starting a new Zion session. If your cells are already below 3.3V when you begin, grab another pair instead of pushing them.
HD Springer
Well-Known Member
Ah yes @KeroZen is the Beta team battery master and I agree with all he has to say. I will add that the Zion spec will require a discharge down to 2.5 V as I have gotten a pair there pushing em hard on the low power setting. To add to the volt meter idea the big benefit of a digital charger is it tells you voltage. I have trickle charged batteries Dead and they recharged fine. I also ran batteries way out of balance as well and there was no issue.
In general if you pair batteries and swap position after each use your batteries will stay balanced and healthy for quote some time. @pakalolo how have your batteries performed and what is the approximate use rate?
...and we all know how much @MrPeanut is woo pin' on them batteries... We dam near wore the ends off one pair
In general if you pair batteries and swap position after each use your batteries will stay balanced and healthy for quote some time. @pakalolo how have your batteries performed and what is the approximate use rate?
...and we all know how much @MrPeanut is woo pin' on them batteries... We dam near wore the ends off one pair
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I am using two pairs that you sent with Jessica, and a pair of Panasonic CGR18650CHs that I got for my FlashVAPE. I check the voltage before and after each stem. A stem almost always uses ~.25 V and I swap out a pair after two stems. Since I start at ~4.25 V this means I'm charging when they get down to about 3.75 V. I have only taken them as far as 3.2 V once. I've seen no sign of battery degradation but it's much too early given my usage pattern.
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Hmmm, I too am not that well-versed in batteries beyond some basic dont fully charge/ leave fully charged too long/discharge too low
Since I ordered 4 pairs of the LGs from RBT, and already have a nitecore i2, my plan was to fully charge them until lights solid, and then use them in the Zion swapping positions after each session. And probably charging every 4 sessions? I guess that will be tbd depending how many I can even get...
What has battery life been like, say the average number of bowls, for beta testers so far? I know there are so many variables that may be an impossible question though (ah I see Pak described his above, thanks dude that helps!)
I don't really want to have to buy a new charger with a display since I haven't even had this one very long and they're more expensive as well. Could I get by just using those 3 lights as a guide? Could I say charge em full, do 3 bowls, and charge em up more again? Could I even pull em off the charger whole the nights are still flashing at 3 instead of solid (or is it better to always fully charge these batteries and/or let then discharge)? If I keep them paired and am always swapping (oh should I swap in Zion and in charger?), should I presume they're equal even though I don't have the digital voltmeter?
Since I ordered 4 pairs of the LGs from RBT, and already have a nitecore i2, my plan was to fully charge them until lights solid, and then use them in the Zion swapping positions after each session. And probably charging every 4 sessions? I guess that will be tbd depending how many I can even get...
What has battery life been like, say the average number of bowls, for beta testers so far? I know there are so many variables that may be an impossible question though (ah I see Pak described his above, thanks dude that helps!)
I don't really want to have to buy a new charger with a display since I haven't even had this one very long and they're more expensive as well. Could I get by just using those 3 lights as a guide? Could I say charge em full, do 3 bowls, and charge em up more again? Could I even pull em off the charger whole the nights are still flashing at 3 instead of solid (or is it better to always fully charge these batteries and/or let then discharge)? If I keep them paired and am always swapping (oh should I swap in Zion and in charger?), should I presume they're equal even though I don't have the digital voltmeter?
MrPeanut
Zion, stealing faces since 2015
I use the standard Nitecore with the 3 lights. I put the batteries on the charger until it stops blinking. I put the batteries in the Zion and use it until it stops. I swap out for freshies and replace the originals to the charger... it really is not more complicated than that. I have been using the same two sets of batteries (the lg's supplied by rbt) that I received with my original 2x4. Beyond some physical damage to the battery sleeve (my fault) I have had no issues. I still am getting a minimum of 5 sessions per charge. I do believe some of the exceptional efficiency I get is because I rarely let Evangeline cool down and I always let off the throttle midway through the hit and use the stored heat to finish off the hit.
Ahhh fun with batteries 
Ok y'all . . .
So I was just wondering . . . my apologies if this has already been covered, and tbh I think I already know the answer but I just wanna make sure . . .
How would the Zion cope with being severely blown into instead of inhaled from?
We've seen that it appears that water is only a momentary setback for this little monster & I think RBT used to talk about blow stirring the load in some way but what would happen if I handed the Zion to someone & they took a massive huge chug of vapor & then immediately spluttered & coughed or sneezed it all back into the unit?
I know that this particular point has come up in the GH thread recently and as far as the Grasshopper goes - I believe GH Labs advise against blowing the wrong way through their device as it could cause damage to the unit internally.
Again, soz if this has already been discussed
Peace
Ok y'all
. . .So I was just wondering . . . my apologies if this has already been covered, and tbh I think I already know the answer but I just wanna make sure . . .
How would the Zion cope with being severely blown into instead of inhaled from?
We've seen that it appears that water is only a momentary setback for this little monster & I think RBT used to talk about blow stirring the load in some way but what would happen if I handed the Zion to someone & they took a massive huge chug of vapor & then immediately spluttered & coughed or sneezed it all back into the unit?
I know that this particular point has come up in the GH thread recently and as far as the Grasshopper goes - I believe GH Labs advise against blowing the wrong way through their device as it could cause damage to the unit internally.
Again, soz if this has already been discussed
Peace
Ahhh fun with batteries
Ok y'all
So I was just wondering . . . my apologies if this has already been covered, and tbh I think I already know the answer but I just wanna make sure . . .
How would the Zion cope with being severely blown into instead of inhaled from?
We've seen that it appears that water is only a momentary setback for this little monster & I think RBT used to talk about blow stirring the load in some way but what would happen if I handed the Zion to someone & they took a massive huge chug of vapor & then immediately spluttered & coughed or sneezed it all back into the unit?
I know that this particular point has come up in the GH thread recently and as far as the Grasshopper goes - I believe GH Labs advise against blowing the wrong way through their device as it could cause damage to the unit internally.
Again, soz if this has already been discussed
Peace
It hasn't been discussed.
Nothing of significance would happen if you blew into the Zion. You might force some really fine material through the bowl screen, but it wouldn't be enough to be a concern.
cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
They seem to be very concerned about moisture at GH, and I think that is what is making them nervous. As we now know, moisture is not a concern for Zion so I can't imagine any issues blowing in to it. When I first got Ellie and I was running her empty, I blew through the intake hole quite a bit as I didn't really want to burn it off by inhaling whatever I might be burning off.
Batteries: I got 4 of the LGs from RBT, and I am doing 3 or 4 bowls before swapping. I occasionally check where I am by throwing one in the charger. I usually put them in the charger between 3.5 and 3.7v. I had intended to get the I4 from RBT, but he sent me the D2 instead and I am glad to have the digital readout over just the lights for more accuracy. I may get the 4 banger (D4) later just for shits and giggles, tho 2 at a time seems to work out fine so far.
If you are using the Nitecore or other good charger it shouldn't matter what position they are in as the positions are supposed to be fully independent, but in the 4 bangers they seems to suggest only 2 at a time should be in position 1/3 or 2/4.
And just to be clear, I am NOT particularly knowledgeable about batteries. I am learning as I go and from these guys.
Batteries: I got 4 of the LGs from RBT, and I am doing 3 or 4 bowls before swapping. I occasionally check where I am by throwing one in the charger. I usually put them in the charger between 3.5 and 3.7v. I had intended to get the I4 from RBT, but he sent me the D2 instead and I am glad to have the digital readout over just the lights for more accuracy. I may get the 4 banger (D4) later just for shits and giggles, tho 2 at a time seems to work out fine so far.
If you are using the Nitecore or other good charger it shouldn't matter what position they are in as the positions are supposed to be fully independent, but in the 4 bangers they seems to suggest only 2 at a time should be in position 1/3 or 2/4.
And just to be clear, I am NOT particularly knowledgeable about batteries. I am learning as I go and from these guys.
vaporvaper
Well-Known Member
Waiting game pt2, begins...
So @cybrguy is shipping Electra home for a heater / screen retrofit. @MrPeanut and I have been root causing and addressing an issue with the heater efficiency. The design versatility of the mica enables more accurate positioning of the heater which allowed us to precisely control the distance between the heater and the screen alleviating the "low temperature" issue @cybrguy was experiencing. @cybrguy replacement unit has been tested and it's performance is the new Zion benchmark. We will work to accelerate production and test to regain some of the time lost as well as expediting @cybrguy unit so he has it in time for the weekend.
I will also be shipping the first bottle of flower drops for test... Hope you like organic strawberry @cybrguy
Again, thanks for your patience as we work through the last few beta issues.
I will also be shipping the first bottle of flower drops for test... Hope you like organic strawberry @cybrguy
Again, thanks for your patience as we work through the last few beta issues.
I was saying nothing!So @cybrguy is shipping Electra home for a heater / screen retrofit. @MrPeanut and I have been root causing and addressing an issue with the heater efficiency. The design versatility of the mica enables more accurate positioning of the heater which allowed us to precisely control the distance between the heater and the screen alleviating the "low temperature" issue @cybrguy was experiencing. @cybrguy replacement unit has been tested and it's performance is the new Zion benchmark. We will work to accelerate production and test to regain some of the time lost as well as expediting @cybrguy unit so he has it in time for the weekend.
I will also be shipping the first bottle of flower drops for test... Hope you like organic strawberry @cybrguy
Again, thanks for your patience as we work through the last few beta issues.
(Yet closely monitoring my mailbox!)
We appreciate the update.
Keep on grinning
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Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
So @cybrguy is shipping Electra home for a heater / screen retrofit. @MrPeanut and I have been root causing and addressing an issue with the heater efficiency. The design versatility of the mica enables more accurate positioning of the heater which allowed us to precisely control the distance between the heater and the screen alleviating the "low temperature" issue @cybrguy was experiencing. @cybrguy replacement unit has been tested and it's performance is the new Zion benchmark. We will work to accelerate production and test to regain some of the time lost as well as expediting @cybrguy unit so he has it in time for the weekend.
I will also be shipping the first bottle of flower drops for test... Hope you like organic strawberry @cybrguy
Again, thanks for your patience as we work through the last few beta issues.
I'm with @VegNVape, trying to be calm and collected, and give you the time you need to hone in these first five. Been wondering why we hadn't heard more from our friend @cybrguy... So even though @MrPeanut seemed to be able to get low and high temps out of his, for a new user the closer proximity heater is a more effective way to experience optimal performance? I'm all for improvements that we can all enjoy, though I'd be lying if I said I haven't been at the edge of my seat since last week anxiously waiting for my Zion. That's whats helping to keep me at bay with these latest Hopper delays haha
Good luck and keep on keepin on RBT!
cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
I was working with Pak a bit in chat to be sure that I wasn't just being an idiot and there was really a problem. Not sure Pak was sure at first...
So it was a heating problem and RBT recognized it quickly as he had noticed the same issue with the next Zions, so Ellie is on her way back. The good news is he thinks he has resolved it as he said above. That is exciting news. And it looks like I won't have to wait too long.
I'm gonna have to decide whether to use the same name for her replacement. I think I will, I like it. I think Ellie 1 can adjust to a new name...
I was getting great low temp hits, some of the most flavorful I've ever had, but was struggling trying to get cloudy ones. Especially given what we had seen in the vids. I thought it might have been my not being used to this kind of heater, but then realized that that couldn't be all it was. @pakalolo was able to help me confirm that.
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KeroZen
Chronic vapaholic
I can confirm too: even when hitting the stem dry, if you want to you can turn it opaque white with vapor in 5 seconds and get real lung busters with the Zion! As Sticks said the problem is usually more how to tame it down!
I've been using the "fast preheat" technic lately, setting the power at 12'o'clock + 90° for the first hit, and Ashton got me by surprise several times! It's so fast I turn the power down to by 45° for the second and third hits, then down again 45° to continue the session, where to me at least it's more manageable.
I've been using the "fast preheat" technic lately, setting the power at 12'o'clock + 90° for the first hit, and Ashton got me by surprise several times! It's so fast I turn the power down to by 45° for the second and third hits, then down again 45° to continue the session, where to me at least it's more manageable.
Hah that sounds like the reverse of how a lot of people use their vapes!
But starting high & dialing it back sounds like fun to me if you still find that you are getting the vapor production, taste & effects that you desire
Hey @cybrguy, good work on the testing btw and for finding a chink in the armour.
That's the way to do it
Ooooh this is all SO EXCITING!!!
Keep on Zion
HD Springer
Well-Known Member
...where "slow" is 10-15 seconds. I guess I'm more patient since I don't turn it up, I just wait it out. Of course there's nothing wrong with starting at full power. It's pure convection, so until you hit it not much happens. As I keep saying, one of the strengths of this design is versatility.
Please don't reach conclusions yet. The heaters in my Zion and KeroZen's are not the ones going into production. The FC 10 will get the mica heater, and until we hear from a couple of those we still don't know how fast the production Zions will heat. As I understand it, one of the benefits of changing to mica is a quicker warm-up.
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Yeah seems the mica will change this in the latest heater refresh... Also this method does work in other vapes actually, at least for example the Solo can be heated up to like 5 or higher to get going for the first two minutes, then drop it down to 2 or 3 and you can get a nice long cloudy session at a low temp. It can help prime the heater and the load, though I admit I never did it often (and don't have it anymore so don't do it at all now...). We'll see with the refreshes what its like, as Pak said, we use these early reports as guidelines, but ours will likely perform stronger even starting low with this redesign. Best to keep a fresh open mind until these five are in our hands so we can test ourselves and report back
Yesterday @cybrguy's Zion went and visited the 2x4 #2 which has become thecgold standard for heater performance. After a head to head comparison all things were equal other than a little faster low temp heat up for the Zion. @cybrguy your new Zion is running on the hot side, a little two hot but that just means you will run a max of 75% or so as the norm... Maybe A short 5 second draw at max power to start but no extended session on the top of the dial. This gives some margin if the unit is used in low ambient temperatures or if over the years the performance drops slightly this will ensure customers and still get the full performance from their Zion. The low end still seems low enough for me but we will get @cybrguy's thoughts in a few days. You can always feather the fire button on the low end to reduce the heat but I don't believe that will be necessary.
Over the last several weeks we refined the heater and screen geometry and fit to optimize the Zion's performance. Time well spent I believe. It really sets up the Beta team to have production intent technology in there hands and we can move to the next level of refinement rather than fight core technology issues.
@cybrguy should receive his replacement on Saturday. We are proceeding with the builds and look forward to @cybrguy evaluating his new and improved Zion.
https://twitter.com/rastabuddhatao/status/611592272057139200
Over the last several weeks we refined the heater and screen geometry and fit to optimize the Zion's performance. Time well spent I believe. It really sets up the Beta team to have production intent technology in there hands and we can move to the next level of refinement rather than fight core technology issues.
@cybrguy should receive his replacement on Saturday. We are proceeding with the builds and look forward to @cybrguy evaluating his new and improved Zion.
https://twitter.com/rastabuddhatao/status/611592272057139200