HD Springer
Well-Known Member
Oh damn.I might get a little giddy up in here if we get @pakalolo talkin aboout the Zion.
@RastaBuddhaTao I'm good with the nickel.
@RastaBuddhaTao I'm good with the nickel.
Discontinued Zion vaporizer
- Thread starter lwien
- Start date
TheDudeNextDoor
Abiding
That twitter pic is gorgeous! Ready to give this baby a go. I'm not worried the nickel either. It makes cents.
ba-dum-dum-chi!
ba-dum-dum-chi!
cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
While we wait for @pakalolo to be released by the aliens who abducted him I have a question. Are you guys intending to include a water adapter with the Zion? I would think a glass piece with gong joint on both ends might be hard to find in the wild. And depending on the glass one is pairing it with they might want a long one OR a short one. Sorry if this has been covered...
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
They are actually extremely easy to find, ebay and other places. They come free with most dhgate cheap glass purchases in fact, mostly 18-18, but also 18-14. I've already got an 18-18 bc of that
Pak might be waiting for some custom stems and screens I made at his request. They should get there tomorrow. Maybe we will hear a preliminary report from him this weekend?
Other than the work that @stickstones did to adapt the Zion to water nothing has been done. Maybe Sticks the retailer can produce an offering? RastaBuddhaTao's long term plan is to loose the batteries and mouthpiece storage hole and add a 12 Volt power supply for a compact, low weight product that is conducive to adapting to water. In short, the Zion really isn't meant for water and using it in that fashion is less than optimal... However @thekarmawhore and I have discussed loosing the mouthpiece holder and putting an on-board water device in it's place but that's probably not practical either.
cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
I had no idea they were common. I never got one with DHgate glass. That is great to know.
Interesting power plan. Is this intended for the stealth version, or a specific for water version? Are you intending to eventually have "a line" of vaporizers?
Whether "optimal" or not I suspect many of us will be using it with water, so it needs not to be too much of a kludge. Many folks ONLY vape through water.
Last edited:
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Yeah of course, but the eventual true-desktop plugin unit will be more optimal, size-wise and perhaps in other ways too.
I remember that model was discussed earlier, I'm really looking forward to it personally, seems like an Underdog married with an LSV...
@RastaBuddhaTao maybe Zion can have some kind of PA adapter down the line as well? Similar to Thermovape and MFLB methods
The Zion should also work well with hydrotubes and tamers I imagine, I know I will be testing with a tamer as I plan to buy one when I have the Zion (and grasshopper). Still undecided if I will invest in a hydrotube again...
@cybrguy yeah they're used with glass dome and nail oil rigs, many of the bubblers and bongs on Kathy, yingmin, and sunshine store come with those 3 pieces as well as a combustion bowl. Some only come with one or the other though. Ebay is the easiest if you just want the adapter though
I remember that model was discussed earlier, I'm really looking forward to it personally, seems like an Underdog married with an LSV...
@RastaBuddhaTao maybe Zion can have some kind of PA adapter down the line as well? Similar to Thermovape and MFLB methods
The Zion should also work well with hydrotubes and tamers I imagine, I know I will be testing with a tamer as I plan to buy one when I have the Zion (and grasshopper). Still undecided if I will invest in a hydrotube again...
@cybrguy yeah they're used with glass dome and nail oil rigs, many of the bubblers and bongs on Kathy, yingmin, and sunshine store come with those 3 pieces as well as a combustion bowl. Some only come with one or the other though. Ebay is the easiest if you just want the adapter though
I have eluded the aliens for a few minutes and must type quickly. After a few days in the company of Jessica, it's time for me to share some impressions.
The Zion is a power-on-demand convection design, with a virtually all-glass vapour path and a wood body. One of the first things I did was test the level of conduction. I put in fully charged batteries, then turned the power full up. I dumped a load of medium grind Jack Herer directly onto the screen at the bottom of the bowl, then held down the power button and used a strong light to watch for vapour. At 40 seconds, I detected a tiny wisp. When I examined the load, I could find no traces of heating. As far as I'm concerned, that's enough reason to call it a purely convection device.
The strength of the Zion design is that it can reach vapourizing heat quickly but once it does, it is slow to get much hotter. This makes it much easier to learn and control. By starting at low settings and taking test puffs every few seconds, it is easy to figure out when to start pulling: early for flavour, later for clouds. If you're not getting what you want after 15-20 seconds, turn up the power knob and repeat. The Zion has enough power that you're unlikely to need to turn it up all the way.
The standard way to use the Zion is with a stem, at least one end of which is a standard 18 mm male GonG connection. You insert a screen, making a bowl about 12-14 mm deep. This leaves room for about .1 g loosely packed. You don't have to use .1 g and my normal load is .07 g, but a smaller load would work too. If you need more, you can push the screen back farther and make a deeper bowl. My temporary screens have been as far back as 20 mm, which held about .3 g packed lightly.
Those not familiar with stem loading might be concerned about the load falling out of the stem and perhaps clogging up the fine mesh screen. As Solo owners know, the load actually tends to stay in place since you're pulling it up when you draw. As FlashVAPE owners know, its load sits directly on a similar fine mesh screen, which almost never clogs even when used in conduction mode. I see no indication that this screen will need much maintenance.
Since these stems have about 14 mm ID the flow through Jessica is pretty much unrestricted. The limit will probably be how tightly you packed your load. You can pull as hard as you like. At lower power settings, you can overpower the heater, but at the high end hoovering is the path to clouds and even combustion. Yes, if you press the button long enough and ignore the signals, you can produce a cherry.
One of the benefits of having an 18 mm bowl is that you can connect anything that has an 18 mm male connector. The stem I use most is actually a 15 cm 18 mm m/m connector. I like this because it's a long stem, which is cooler, and when I get further into the load and the flavour starts to go, I can invert Jessica onto my bubbler.
Before talking about water tools, however, I want to discuss flavour. Jessica has a virtually all-glass path and is pure convection—things that are associated with great flavour. She also has a powerful heater for releasing that flavour, but she can deliver excess heat and destroy flavour too. The character of the vapour I get from Jessica depends on how I use her. For example, my sweet spot is at 75% power. After 7-10 seconds, I start to get tasty smooth light vapour. I can take a long time working my way through a small load at this setting.
Jessica can be thrifty and tasty, but there's also Jessica the Harsh, Destroyer of Stashes. At high power settings, the vapour is not nearly as smooth. If I go to 100% power I'll probably want my bubbler because the vapour will be thick but hot and hard on the throat. There'll be nothing left in just a few hits, but if fast, full spectrum extraction is what you need, the Zion can do this. It's up to you.
The Zion isn't perfect. Jessica is heavy and a handful, although the body is a handsome piece of woodwork. She needs two batteries at a time, so there's battery management. There's no indicator that the batteries are fading, which doesn't help. Most of my issues, however, are with the stems. Every stem or connector needs a screen. Sometimes these screens don't sit firmly in place, making them difficult to load or stir. There's a potential for glasslock, stem to bowl. The stem can stick to your lip as you pull away, dumping your load. Don't get me wrong. All of these problems are minor and shouldn't deter anyone. There's also a way to avoid them, but it's at your own risk.
When Jessica arrived without screens, at first I thought I had misunderstood about loading the stems. Maybe you loaded the bowl? I quickly realized the error of my ways, but I also couldn't see why loading the bowl wouldn't work. The concerns were that the bowl screen might not be robust enough to tolerate the handling, and that even if it could it might start to clog up. This screen is not removable so you can't afford to mess it up.
I've already explained why I wasn't concerned about clogging. I satisfied myself that the screen was firmly in place and could take the handling. I decided to risk a small load (.07 g) which I topped with a screen to keep debris in place. As I expected, this works nicely, but I want to emphasize here that RastaBuddhaTao does not endorse this method. He has told me that he will specifically advise against it. His feeling is that the screen might be in danger because of the way it is fixed in place, and pressing down the load with a screen or the stem could push the bowl screen out. This is definitely a risk. RBT is sending me some slightly shorter stems to test. These would reduce or eliminate any pressure from the stems. There's also a chance that material under the rim of the stem will not vaporize evenly with the rest of the load. I'll let you know.
My screen shows no sign of trouble yet, but since RBT explained his concerns, I only use connectors that I know aren't long enough to push the load onto the screen. I like the idea because it means I don't need to put screens in everything I connect. I know RBT has said the Zion is not really intended for water, but that bowl just begs to be connected to a water device.
There are considerations but nothing major. Without bowl loading, you have to put a screen in the connector and load it, which sometimes isn't practical. With bowl loading, if you invert the Zion, when you pull it off the water device the top screen and load can fall out. These problems will probably be as much of a deterrent as RBT's comment that the Zion isn't intended for water tools.
Even if you take all of RBT's reservations into consideration and don't use bowl loads or water tools, the Zion is still a wonderfully versatile design. It's pretty simple and robust, and it can deliver. The positives are major, the negatives are minor. If the next batch improves on Jessica, then I predict a lot of happy owners.
The Zion is a power-on-demand convection design, with a virtually all-glass vapour path and a wood body. One of the first things I did was test the level of conduction. I put in fully charged batteries, then turned the power full up. I dumped a load of medium grind Jack Herer directly onto the screen at the bottom of the bowl, then held down the power button and used a strong light to watch for vapour. At 40 seconds, I detected a tiny wisp. When I examined the load, I could find no traces of heating. As far as I'm concerned, that's enough reason to call it a purely convection device.
The strength of the Zion design is that it can reach vapourizing heat quickly but once it does, it is slow to get much hotter. This makes it much easier to learn and control. By starting at low settings and taking test puffs every few seconds, it is easy to figure out when to start pulling: early for flavour, later for clouds. If you're not getting what you want after 15-20 seconds, turn up the power knob and repeat. The Zion has enough power that you're unlikely to need to turn it up all the way.
The standard way to use the Zion is with a stem, at least one end of which is a standard 18 mm male GonG connection. You insert a screen, making a bowl about 12-14 mm deep. This leaves room for about .1 g loosely packed. You don't have to use .1 g and my normal load is .07 g, but a smaller load would work too. If you need more, you can push the screen back farther and make a deeper bowl. My temporary screens have been as far back as 20 mm, which held about .3 g packed lightly.
Those not familiar with stem loading might be concerned about the load falling out of the stem and perhaps clogging up the fine mesh screen. As Solo owners know, the load actually tends to stay in place since you're pulling it up when you draw. As FlashVAPE owners know, its load sits directly on a similar fine mesh screen, which almost never clogs even when used in conduction mode. I see no indication that this screen will need much maintenance.
Since these stems have about 14 mm ID the flow through Jessica is pretty much unrestricted. The limit will probably be how tightly you packed your load. You can pull as hard as you like. At lower power settings, you can overpower the heater, but at the high end hoovering is the path to clouds and even combustion. Yes, if you press the button long enough and ignore the signals, you can produce a cherry.
One of the benefits of having an 18 mm bowl is that you can connect anything that has an 18 mm male connector. The stem I use most is actually a 15 cm 18 mm m/m connector. I like this because it's a long stem, which is cooler, and when I get further into the load and the flavour starts to go, I can invert Jessica onto my bubbler.
Before talking about water tools, however, I want to discuss flavour. Jessica has a virtually all-glass path and is pure convection—things that are associated with great flavour. She also has a powerful heater for releasing that flavour, but she can deliver excess heat and destroy flavour too. The character of the vapour I get from Jessica depends on how I use her. For example, my sweet spot is at 75% power. After 7-10 seconds, I start to get tasty smooth light vapour. I can take a long time working my way through a small load at this setting.
Jessica can be thrifty and tasty, but there's also Jessica the Harsh, Destroyer of Stashes. At high power settings, the vapour is not nearly as smooth. If I go to 100% power I'll probably want my bubbler because the vapour will be thick but hot and hard on the throat. There'll be nothing left in just a few hits, but if fast, full spectrum extraction is what you need, the Zion can do this. It's up to you.
The Zion isn't perfect. Jessica is heavy and a handful, although the body is a handsome piece of woodwork. She needs two batteries at a time, so there's battery management. There's no indicator that the batteries are fading, which doesn't help. Most of my issues, however, are with the stems. Every stem or connector needs a screen. Sometimes these screens don't sit firmly in place, making them difficult to load or stir. There's a potential for glasslock, stem to bowl. The stem can stick to your lip as you pull away, dumping your load. Don't get me wrong. All of these problems are minor and shouldn't deter anyone. There's also a way to avoid them, but it's at your own risk.
When Jessica arrived without screens, at first I thought I had misunderstood about loading the stems. Maybe you loaded the bowl? I quickly realized the error of my ways, but I also couldn't see why loading the bowl wouldn't work. The concerns were that the bowl screen might not be robust enough to tolerate the handling, and that even if it could it might start to clog up. This screen is not removable so you can't afford to mess it up.
I've already explained why I wasn't concerned about clogging. I satisfied myself that the screen was firmly in place and could take the handling. I decided to risk a small load (.07 g) which I topped with a screen to keep debris in place. As I expected, this works nicely, but I want to emphasize here that RastaBuddhaTao does not endorse this method. He has told me that he will specifically advise against it. His feeling is that the screen might be in danger because of the way it is fixed in place, and pressing down the load with a screen or the stem could push the bowl screen out. This is definitely a risk. RBT is sending me some slightly shorter stems to test. These would reduce or eliminate any pressure from the stems. There's also a chance that material under the rim of the stem will not vaporize evenly with the rest of the load. I'll let you know.
My screen shows no sign of trouble yet, but since RBT explained his concerns, I only use connectors that I know aren't long enough to push the load onto the screen. I like the idea because it means I don't need to put screens in everything I connect. I know RBT has said the Zion is not really intended for water, but that bowl just begs to be connected to a water device.
There are considerations but nothing major. Without bowl loading, you have to put a screen in the connector and load it, which sometimes isn't practical. With bowl loading, if you invert the Zion, when you pull it off the water device the top screen and load can fall out. These problems will probably be as much of a deterrent as RBT's comment that the Zion isn't intended for water tools.
Even if you take all of RBT's reservations into consideration and don't use bowl loads or water tools, the Zion is still a wonderfully versatile design. It's pretty simple and robust, and it can deliver. The positives are major, the negatives are minor. If the next batch improves on Jessica, then I predict a lot of happy owners.
NICE preliminary review @pakalolo!
Thank's man.
It's extremely interesting to hear your take on things.
Definitely looking good from where I'm standing
Let the chorus continue . . .
stickstones
Vapor concierge
yeah...I love the way @pakalolo reports on vapes!
@Shit Snacks is right...I am using that same cheap M2M adapter that came from China with a bubbler. It mates fine with my CloudBuddy.
I'm not sure why it isn't good for water...it's my favorite way to use it. Maybe because of its shape and weight it isn't ideal, but it holds in place on a solid bubbler just fine.
@Shit Snacks is right...I am using that same cheap M2M adapter that came from China with a bubbler. It mates fine with my CloudBuddy.
I'm not sure why it isn't good for water...it's my favorite way to use it. Maybe because of its shape and weight it isn't ideal, but it holds in place on a solid bubbler just fine.
Agreed... Just not ideal. Yes, MrP and I where discussing the PA the other day. Products on the horizon include: unregulated concentrate, desktop, unregulated flower pen, single battery regulated flower stealth, single battery regulated concentrate, and then on the closed loop control (may happen in the desktop)... So many cool vaporizers to design, so little time 
thekarmawhore
Well-Known Member
...and only one 'whore
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Wholeheartedly agreed^
And likewise I will use with water a lot I'm sure, but I'm sure I will find occasion for both...
Like LSV and its 18mm gong stem loading, a little tricky for sure, but can get the hang of it. For water I may try leaving the wpa in there even, pulling Zion off the stem to stir bowl in between hits while it sits in bubbler like I used to do with LSV and now with my underdog.
Only downside perhaps is that the learning curve could make group use a bit trickier than say the LSV or Solo, but as long as its no worse than firefly my buddies should all be fine
thekarmawhore
Well-Known Member
I think once one is familiar with it you'll be able to set the knob, hand it to a newb and say hit it like a bong.
edit: you even "carb" it at the end with the button release and continued 5 seconds of draw
edit: you even "carb" it at the end with the button release and continued 5 seconds of draw
HD Springer
Well-Known Member
I'm pleasantly surprised by all the good reviews with little to no bad things to say about the Zion. Damn good beginning shaping up here.
TheDudeNextDoor
Abiding
Hoping I will be able to figure out a way to attach this little jewel to the Zion. 14mm female joint.
thekarmawhore
Well-Known Member
Even if I had nothing to do with device, and some random person gave it to me, showed me how to use it, I'd STILL be just as amazed by, and in love with, the Zion.
I had literally more or less given up on vapes years ago because it was different enough, effect wise, that I didn't like it. I always had to finish up with combustion to feel satisfied, which of course tasted like shit because vaping kind of reveals that to you, so screw that, stick with what works.
Courtney has literally changed my life. No lie. (she's only white and trashy looking due to her material properties btw, inside she's beautiful. And ALL business. Pleasure business, that is. Uh, in the psychoactive kind of way, that is).
Not only is does it work well enough that I'm satisfied, this thing literally punches me in the face. I find it's significantly more intense, at least for now. I posted earlier tongue-in-cheek about a "buckling problem" with the Zion which can affect the knees of the user. Yeah I wrote it to be funny, but I'm not kidding it's based on the truth. Maybe I'm some kind of vape-mega-lightweight, but dang! Whatever, I'll take it! Not the least bit inclined or interested to pick up a pipe since I received it, which really surprises me. I expected to use it for a little while due to the new "novelty" of it, but revert back to the old way.
Nope.
I had literally more or less given up on vapes years ago because it was different enough, effect wise, that I didn't like it. I always had to finish up with combustion to feel satisfied, which of course tasted like shit because vaping kind of reveals that to you, so screw that, stick with what works.
Courtney has literally changed my life. No lie. (she's only white and trashy looking due to her material properties btw, inside she's beautiful. And ALL business. Pleasure business, that is. Uh, in the psychoactive kind of way, that is).
Not only is does it work well enough that I'm satisfied, this thing literally punches me in the face. I find it's significantly more intense, at least for now. I posted earlier tongue-in-cheek about a "buckling problem" with the Zion which can affect the knees of the user. Yeah I wrote it to be funny, but I'm not kidding it's based on the truth. Maybe I'm some kind of vape-mega-lightweight, but dang! Whatever, I'll take it! Not the least bit inclined or interested to pick up a pipe since I received it, which really surprises me. I expected to use it for a little while due to the new "novelty" of it, but revert back to the old way.
Nope.
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Hoping I will be able to figure out a way to attach this little jewel to the Zion. 14mm female joint.
Just need a 18 to 14mm male to male adapter bud, easy as pie. Mmmm pie
Mister G
Deceptively Old Fart
I can relate to your experience. I vaped on and off for 20 years or so, but always went back to combustion and my trusty waterpipe. Then I found this place and kicked it for good once I got my first actually good vaporizer that worked for me. The right device for the right person will switch the light on. Watch out for the VAS (oops did I say that).
TheDudeNextDoor
Abiding
But that assumes the draw tube has a GonG connection, right? I was thinking we are still at a straight tube at this point.
stickstones
Vapor concierge
I would have to agree with this. My version has a very stoney, 'you're done for the night' feel to it when I dial in the high temps.