My question is - what would you typically say to someone who says this to you? I've talked to a lot of people who seem to perpetuate this kind of thinking. I'd usually just say "That's not necessarily true, you should probably research it online" - of course, not everyone is going to read from the same sources, so I was thinking of something else to say. So I was wondering if any other dabbers of BHO get this question a lot.
"You shouldn't dab BHO because butane is really bad for you"
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sokesleezy
Well-Known Member
Does anyone know what the typical level of butane found in medicinal bho is?
BossBrew
Metalhead
I couldn't agree more. The other day I was at Target in the snack aisle and picked up a box of Nature Valley Granola Bars when a lady out of no where interjected and said "You know those are packed with sugar and no better than eating a candy bar right? They aren't healthy at all." I couldn't help but giggle at irony of her health tips as the woman was clearly overweight herself. After putting the box in my cart I smiled and thanked her for the tip and continued shopping.
I'm always amused by the sense of entitlement some people feel they have when it comes to openly judging other peoples lifestyle choices. The fact that a middle-aged woman thought she could make a statement about a complete strangers dietary choices is baffling to me. Maybe she thought she was saving me from unhealthy snacks and I'm blowing it out of proportion but this behavior just seems rude to me.
I have heard the "BHO is bad for you" arguments 5-6 years ago but as concentrates have gained popularity over the years I no longer hear it.
Frederick McGuire
Aggressively Loungey
My response would be something along the lines of:
1 - I know my sources, and any BHO I have has been very carefully purged.
2 - what alternative is being presented? Smoking? Vaping? Edibles?
Edibles offers a very different high, and smoking is potentially more harmful to my health than some residual solvent.
A properly purged oil will deliver less butane to my system than a bic lighter would if I smoked a bowl...
3 - most of my oil isn't even BHO - QWISO, QWET, Rosin, and even some very high quality bubble or dry sift can produce dabbable concentrates with no butane at all.
If those and other reasonable lines of communication no longer work;
"I have considered the potential outcomes of this activity, and as an adult I am comfortable with the risks associated with it - lets talk about something else"
1 - I know my sources, and any BHO I have has been very carefully purged.
2 - what alternative is being presented? Smoking? Vaping? Edibles?
Edibles offers a very different high, and smoking is potentially more harmful to my health than some residual solvent.
A properly purged oil will deliver less butane to my system than a bic lighter would if I smoked a bowl...
3 - most of my oil isn't even BHO - QWISO, QWET, Rosin, and even some very high quality bubble or dry sift can produce dabbable concentrates with no butane at all.
If those and other reasonable lines of communication no longer work;
"I have considered the potential outcomes of this activity, and as an adult I am comfortable with the risks associated with it - lets talk about something else"
CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
It's nobody's business what you decide that you want to do if you are an adult. If you are under 18 your parents do have a right to tell you what to do especially if you live under the same roof and they are paying your bills.
Know your sources and know how your product was made, education is the key.
Know your sources and know how your product was made, education is the key.
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vakednotfried
i get vaked and hit vongs is it so wrong?
there is always 2 sides or 2 opinions to something. Just do what you want to do not persuaded like the general sheep of the world Fuck it if in going to die im choosing the why i go out.
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
You guys all know that I harp on about residual solvent and proper purging all the time around these parts.
Still - the first point that people who make the claim in the name of this thread need to understand is that good BHO should not have ANY butane in it. At all.
People with little understanding of chemistry (READ: most people!) do not understand that the use of a solvent in production of a substance does not entail the presence of that solvent in the final product.
If there is butane in your BHO beyond single or double digits of parts per million, it is not well-made BHO and you should find better medicine.
It is true that butane, alongside all hydrocarbon solvents, is an asphyxiant. It displaces oxygen in the airways and essentially will choke you from the inside in enough volume (it is really not likely that you are gonna have this kind of volume of butane in concentrates unless they are the butane soupiest concentrates you've ever seen!). Still, one is right to be concerned about the cumulative impact of long term, regular dabbing of concentrates with smaller amounts of residual butane (or any other hydrocarbon solvent). This is not to say anything of the thermal degradation byproducts of residual butane created by dabbing BHO with significant residual butane (and the consequential reaction between the butane and heat).
The basic point is that if you dab hydrocarbon extracted concentrates, you need to ensure that the product you are using is produced by a competent chemist/extract artist and preferably has been tested for residual solvents using reliable and valid analytical chemistry techniques (including but not limited to chromatography and spectroscopy).
Still - the first point that people who make the claim in the name of this thread need to understand is that good BHO should not have ANY butane in it. At all.
People with little understanding of chemistry (READ: most people!) do not understand that the use of a solvent in production of a substance does not entail the presence of that solvent in the final product.
If there is butane in your BHO beyond single or double digits of parts per million, it is not well-made BHO and you should find better medicine.
It is true that butane, alongside all hydrocarbon solvents, is an asphyxiant. It displaces oxygen in the airways and essentially will choke you from the inside in enough volume (it is really not likely that you are gonna have this kind of volume of butane in concentrates unless they are the butane soupiest concentrates you've ever seen!). Still, one is right to be concerned about the cumulative impact of long term, regular dabbing of concentrates with smaller amounts of residual butane (or any other hydrocarbon solvent). This is not to say anything of the thermal degradation byproducts of residual butane created by dabbing BHO with significant residual butane (and the consequential reaction between the butane and heat).
The basic point is that if you dab hydrocarbon extracted concentrates, you need to ensure that the product you are using is produced by a competent chemist/extract artist and preferably has been tested for residual solvents using reliable and valid analytical chemistry techniques (including but not limited to chromatography and spectroscopy).
OF
Well-Known Member
Obviously in Medical grade concentrate (tested) there is 'none'.
It's a matter of degree. Suggest they look up "Butane abuse". AFAIK it's still the most common 'legal high' in the UK. We're talking serious 'huffing' for a LONG time. Frostbite from SPRAYING IT DIRECTLY INTO THEIR THROATS is a common ailment. As are cardiac problems leading to death after long conic abuse. Those that 'only' do the occasional can (or straight out of the lighter) seem to survive just fine. What's left in even the worst BHO is a tiny fraction of what's in a Bic........
This is a huge difference in exposure. Like worrying if a drop of wine left in the bottle you fill with drinking water makes you an alcoholic? Or will be toxic?
There's even a bit of 'you'll shoot your eye out' in such claims I think......folks that want to feel superior by claiming you're foolish?
Education on the facts is the cure for such ignorance I think.
OF
I thought no matter how it is purged you can never remove 100% of the butane? It may be parts per million, but it is always in there once it is added.
About two years ago, when Steep Hill Laboratories began testing BHO for residual butane, they found that extract artists using boiling water to remove excess lighter fluid were producing hash oil that was about 2–5% butane, or as much as 50,000 parts per million. The legal limit for residual butane in state-certified hash oil labs is 500 ppm in Washington and 50 ppm in Colorado.
This was a nice read: http://www.buzzfeed.com/amandachicagolewis/is-hash-oil-safe#.yjQP6EMdB'
and: http://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana-legalization/pesticides/methodology.html
BTW, i am not arguing it is not safe, just that you can't get rid of all of it.
One more: http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/a?dbs+hsdb:@term+@DOCNO+944
About two years ago, when Steep Hill Laboratories began testing BHO for residual butane, they found that extract artists using boiling water to remove excess lighter fluid were producing hash oil that was about 2–5% butane, or as much as 50,000 parts per million. The legal limit for residual butane in state-certified hash oil labs is 500 ppm in Washington and 50 ppm in Colorado.
This was a nice read: http://www.buzzfeed.com/amandachicagolewis/is-hash-oil-safe#.yjQP6EMdB'
and: http://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana-legalization/pesticides/methodology.html
BTW, i am not arguing it is not safe, just that you can't get rid of all of it.
One more: http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/a?dbs+hsdb:@term+@DOCNO+944
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Just saying that the extraction will always leave some in, that is all.
The second link is about the safety of consuming it at all.
The second link is about the safety of consuming it at all.
sokesleezy
Well-Known Member
Toastface_Killah
Well-Known Member
This question is constantly asked and in my honest opinion, just read the MSDS of Butane put out by actual trained scientists. Butane is always listed in the MSDS as being Non-toxic in inhalation tests, and the only harm comes from the short term impact of asphyxiation and oxygen depravation (as well as a cold liquid turning into a gas freezing your lungs) if you're inhaling literal concentrated butane from the can.
http://www.gasinnovations.com/literature/MSDS-Sheets/MSDS-BUTANE.pdf
Even if you have butane soup, butane by itself is the least of your worries arm unless you're inhaling unrealistic amounts of it (even the most butane filled BHO will not have enough butane to cause the short term harmful effects of butane inhalation, the only thing (IMO) to worry about is the shortness of breath and harshness from badly purged tane .
Still, one should still be concerned about the source of butane and other potential contaminates that can be found in poorly made BHO - Butane leaches chemicals so using improper containers for the oil can lead to contamination, and then there is the whole issue of lubes from canned butane producing a mystery oil of death after a ton of empty runs onto a pyrex pan (which is mitigated by ensuring your BHO is created with proper tane from a professional source).
Oh how I love not having to deal with any of this thanks to the Rosin tek coming out big in public knowledge within the past year...
http://www.gasinnovations.com/literature/MSDS-Sheets/MSDS-BUTANE.pdf
Even if you have butane soup, butane by itself is the least of your worries arm unless you're inhaling unrealistic amounts of it (even the most butane filled BHO will not have enough butane to cause the short term harmful effects of butane inhalation, the only thing (IMO) to worry about is the shortness of breath and harshness from badly purged tane .
Still, one should still be concerned about the source of butane and other potential contaminates that can be found in poorly made BHO - Butane leaches chemicals so using improper containers for the oil can lead to contamination, and then there is the whole issue of lubes from canned butane producing a mystery oil of death after a ton of empty runs onto a pyrex pan (which is mitigated by ensuring your BHO is created with proper tane from a professional source).
Oh how I love not having to deal with any of this thanks to the Rosin tek coming out big in public knowledge within the past year...
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OF
Well-Known Member
Get real, a TOTALLY INSIGNIFICANT level. Trivial. Stop trying to scare the straights?
Exactly so. Butane is a common propellent in modern spray cans (now that we've banned Freon......just as DuPonts patent ran out.....), folks who say work in hair salons probably breathe a hundred fold what dabbers with 'really bad' concentrates do? It's just not a toxic gas risk as we define such things.....and good thing IMO.
Same, I think, apples to those who shun vapes like VG because they're too smart to breathe 'toxic Butane vapors' from the combustion (which is, of course water and CO2 at that point.....).
I'm big on Safety. But think 'crying wolf' does serious disservice to us all. Let's support caution on real health risks (like combustion.....) and pass on the rest?
Thanks. I hope folks listen. You recall what Paul Simon said in "The Boxer"? "Still, a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest"..........
Regards to all.
OF
I really liked all the replies given in this thread, but I particularly liked this one, thank you. This knowledge, combined with the poster mentioning certified facilities only produce hash containing at most a fraction of 1% of butane, makes it pretty clear how insignificant the effects are.
Of course, it's always true that bad hash is no good, so it's important to dab smart
StickyShisha2
Well-Known Member
tell them not to consume conventional cooking oils. Just about all have been solvent extracted with hexane, which some studies say is at least as bad as butane if not fully purged.
