You cant trust concentrates these days

pressure

Active Member
So My friend put me on to some vape CO2 oil pens...thought they were great. bought 10
so im puffing on them, for over a month, first batch was good.
then 2nd batch of 10 comes in I thought he water my oil down (keep in mind the co2 oil is from a well known company called platinum vape)
so I go on vacation to California and see the market for myself, I got put on to weedmaps, and started to hit dispensaries. I bought alot of oil pens and I realized when you buy a vape pen with oil you dont know whats in it. Your leaving your health in the hands of someone else who might cut corners

that said, I like the concentrates but these days you cant trust them
 

Gn0sis

Well-Known Member
Follow some simple guidelines when buying your oil in cartridges and you should be fine.

1. Look for ingredients on the packaging. Never buy from a brand that doesn't show them or mixes their oil with any of the following:

PG (Propylene glycol), VG (Vegetable Glycerin), PEG (Polyethylene glycol), food grade terpenes (e.g: D-limonene) .

You only want oil that's mixed with cannabis-derived and better yet, strain-specific terpenes in it.

2. Check how viscous the oil in the cartridge is. Generally, the thicker, the better. You don't want to see the oil flowing around freely within the cartridge. The more viscous it is, the more it's been mixed with stuff that you don't want. Good oil cartridges are very thick and don't tend to flow around much unless heated.

3. Make sure you have the right battery for the cartridge you're using. Having a battery that gives off too much voltage can make the cartridge give off a burnt taste when taking pulls. Having too low of a voltage will leave you unsatisfied with the amount of vapor in every pull. Usually, the brand provides the right battery, otherwise it can be a bit of a P.I.T.A sometimes.

4. Look for good hardware in cartridges. The new ones with the metal rod in the middle tend to perform much better than the older ones with a white silica wick at the bottom.

here is what the better ones generally look like:



These ones usually have a worse taste, leak and fail more often:

 
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FractaLSD

PsychMyc
I dont even live in a "legal" state but after a bit of trial and error you can def know what concentrates to buy. Get some FlavRX or KingPen 710. And what i notice isnt whether its made with metal/glass or just plastic. It seems like if theyre 1g, they usually have additives, and the 500mg ones are always advertised as pure, sometimes "no glycol", which is really the best you can ask for.

You just gotta know what brand is best for you. My main problem with pre-made c02 is the price, and its strangely lower at times here than say in cali, i guess bulk deals and the black market (i guess c02 thats been sitting around gets sold by the thousands or more). Commercially, those carts are so expensive for the fact that they last like 2 days tops for me. Def better to just vape bud with a firefly2 or crafty IMO. But its fast and potent. This is my fav brand At the moment

PS usually good oil is amber, clearer is better it seems. Much like BHO

 

pressure

Active Member
I dont even live in a "legal" state but after a bit of trial and error you can def know what concentrates to buy. Get some FlavRX or KingPen 710. And what i notice isnt whether its made with metal/glass or just plastic. It seems like if theyre 1g, they usually have additives, and the 500mg ones are always advertised as pure, sometimes "no glycol", which is really the best you can ask for.

You just gotta know what brand is best for you. My main problem with pre-made c02 is the price, and its strangely lower at times here than say in cali, i guess bulk deals and the black market (i guess c02 thats been sitting around gets sold by the thousands or more). Commercially, those carts are so expensive for the fact that they last like 2 days tops for me. Def better to just vape bud with a firefly2 or crafty IMO. But its fast and potent. This is my fav brand At the moment

PS usually good oil is amber, clearer is better it seems. Much like BHO


flavrx was caught using pesticides !

the only vape pens I saw that had lab testes results was kurvana!

http://www.stonedcali.com/beware-companys-products-tested-positive-harmful-pesticides/


Steep Hill Lab’s based in Berkeley is one of the largest cannabis testing labs in the nation, making them the obvious choice for this investigative article. The allowable limits for pesticides were based off of the allowable limits in Oregon, Washington, Massachusetts and Nevada. These recreational marijuana states currently regulate the use of pesticide in cannabis and are being used as models for future California cannabis regulations.

Although the cannabis flower wasn’t branded it was found at the following dispensaries: 5 Gram Eighths, Bonafide, Gram Kings, Herbarium LA, Hollywood High Grade, HRC Inc., Kush Burners, LA Patients & Caregivers Collective, Long Lodge Tribal, Mary Jane’s, Perennial Holistic Wellness Center, PMA Collective, Undefeated 30 Cap, Urban Treez and Venice Medical Center.

The “vape” cartridges were branded and the following brands failed the pesticide testing: THClear Private Reserve Skywalker, Heavy Hitters Truth, Spliffin Pure Dante’s Fire, Honey Blackberry, Bhang Pure Sativa, Oasis Clear Paris OG, Oasis Clear SFV OG, The Clear Strawberry, Honey Farm Indica, Bhang Pure Hybrid, Bloom Farms Highlighter Indica, Flav Rx Blackberry Kush, California Honey Skywalker, Flav Rx Sour Diesel, Flav Rx Train Wreck, Rove Indica OG and G Farma Labs Liquid Gold Red.

We may not have regulations in place for pesticides in California but that doesn’t mean that we can’t begin to educate ourselves and our community about what safe cannabis products are currently on our market. We implore everyone to ask the necessary questions and do the research about the brands, when purchasing from a dispensary
 
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Krazy

Well-Known Member
In New Mexico, the ugly step child of medical states, you get what you get. Even if you shop around the various dispensaries they are all sourced the same. Best case you are produced inhouse. Doesn't mean they are pesticide/solvent free but at least you remove one step of culpability.
 

FractaLSD

PsychMyc
FlavRX used pesticides? Kinda not surprised, despite their labelling. I feel they are all over the US, and for a San Diego brand, i guess theyre involved in some shadier stuff than some other companies. But hey. My state doesnt have dispensaries really (just a monopolized one that only accepts terminal diseases, only allows their trademark oils, and no smoking, no actual bud, no edibles even allowed)

I do like the 710 King Pens the most prolly. Altho FlavRX makes claims such as "no glycol, all natural, 100% "ultra?"-refined cannabis oil" on every box. I havent seen an independent test label like ive seen with some other oils/mmj

As far as New Mexico, if you have dispensaries at all, thats awesome. My state just has a thriving greenery/oil/wax black market. Basically, alot of states have "infant" MMJ programs, or just one that havent really been set up to serve the state's actual stoners. And im sure they will all function soon enough. This state-by-state "one christmas light at a time" thing def helps to build momentum, and actually opens the market in a much more dramatic way, but ultimately its strange that in one state, cannabis and especially extracts are "drugs", in another, nothing to even look at twice, just medicine.

the main reason people use c02 carts around here: definitely mostly to be discrete

PS: crazy that LA Patient care givers was found selling plants with pesticides. I always loved that place when there on vacation. Back before cali went legal, they were okay with out of state ID. I told them how the place i got a rec from lied to me etc etc, they were always very nice. I go to LA on vacation fairly often, used to be my home
 
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howie105

Well-Known Member
So My friend put me on to some vape CO2 oil pens...thought they were great. bought 10
so im puffing on them, for over a month, first batch was good.
then 2nd batch of 10 comes in I thought he water my oil down (keep in mind the co2 oil is from a well known company called platinum vape)
so I go on vacation to California and see the market for myself, I got put on to weedmaps, and started to hit dispensaries. I bought alot of oil pens and I realized when you buy a vape pen with oil you dont know whats in it. Your leaving your health in the hands of someone else who might cut corners

that said, I like the concentrates but these days you cant trust them
We don't know what is in many of the products we buy. Food, beverages and medications all get bought on the word of someone else that the products are clean and up to spec. Don't worry, once full legalization and commercialization occur at the national level buying MJ products will be just as safe as A McDonald happy meal.
 

Hippie Dickie

The Herbal Cube
Manufacturer
Don't worry, once full legalization and commercialization occur at the national level buying MJ products will be just as safe as A McDonald happy meal.
not very reassuring (are you being sarcastic?) ... i never get fast "food". the inevitable concentration of herb pesticides into the extraction is my concern, plus whatever "machining oils" are added/needed for a profitable process.
 

howie105

Well-Known Member
not very reassuring (are you being sarcastic?) ... i never get fast "food". the inevitable concentration of herb pesticides into the extraction is my concern, plus whatever "machining oils" are added/needed for a profitable process.
Sadly many commercial mass produced products are compromised (safety, quality, variety, etc) in the pursuit of profit. MJ and its derivatives will probably be no different in the final analysis as they move into the mass market. On the upside many problems are avoidable if one is willing to meet their own needs. Not reassuring but often reality isn't.
PS: Me sarcastic never, well maybe sometimes.:)
 

Krazy

Well-Known Member
As far as New Mexico, if you have dispensaries at all, thats awesome.
It is! And in all fairness I probably can't claim ugly step child status for NM any more. For a while we were the last state to get a medical program and ti was rather tenuous. More states have started up since then and I don't know what they are like.
 

FractaLSD

PsychMyc
So apparently King Pen 710 (the ones I and someone else posted above), won 2017 Cannabis Cup. A specific strain, Gelato. But anyway, that tells me that its okay to assume they prolly dont have pesticides, like FlavRX
 

Gn0sis

Well-Known Member
FlavRx is one of the shaddiest brands in the industry right now. Its no coincidence they are the most popular cartridge on the black market.... I heard from several sources that FlavRx is affiliated with the cartel.
 

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
We really need to qualify our language more clearly here. Concentrates are not necessarily what we are talking about in this thread. Anything in an ecig tank that consists of resin emulsified in added solvents (or even additional terpenes not originally in the resin for use as a solvent) is best described as a tincture. It may or may not be more concentrated in potency than the flower that it came from.

Many of you know that I use concentrates only, and swear by them as being healthier and more medically effective for my needs than flower. What I refer to here are straight, unadulterated concentrates. Cannabis resin that has not had anything added to or removed from it. It is only resin, only from cannabis.

On the other hand, I do not use and would not trust ecig style pens with cannabis tinctures (or even straight distillates generally, which can be strictly referred to as concentrates) in them. Remember, large numbers of straight distillates that end up in these ecig tanks are regularly busted with high levels of pesticides etc. These distillates haven't even had solvents added to them (which we know are unsafe for different reasons).

From an extractors point of view, I've said it many times:

If you want to take some awful material that no scrupulous retailer would sell (and nobody in their right mind would buy) and turn it into something that looks like relatively clean resin, distill it. Many less than prudent manufacturers have already figured this out and in most markets, regulation has not caught up. Buyer beware is the order of the day.

My advice is as always - don't buy products that are sold in ecig tanks if there is ANY other option. Even if there is no other option, NEVER BUY ANYTHING IN AN ECIG TANK IF THERE ARE NO TEST RESULTS for pesticides, microbials, residual solvents etc. Also as above, never buy anything with PG/VG/PEG/ethanol.

Added terpenes are a challenge at the moment. The problem is not so much that people may use 'food derived terps'. If the terps are isolated sufficiently, they are the very same isoprene derived molecules that we find in cannabis. One problem can arise when either the terps are not sufficiently isolated and so other molecules from the original material are present. Another problem is when even perfectly isolated terps from cannabis or anything else are added in unsafe individual levels (ie: too much of a single terpene) or unsafe overall levels (too many terps as a total % of the entire product).

Be on the lookout for unusually high spikes of a given terp. A lot of individual terps commonly found in cannabis can cause harmful side effects in higher concentrations.
 

zenmasterofzinfandel

Well-Known Member
flavrx was caught using pesticides !

the only vape pens I saw that had lab testes results was kurvana!

http://www.stonedcali.com/beware-companys-products-tested-positive-harmful-pesticides/


Steep Hill Lab’s based in Berkeley is one of the largest cannabis testing labs in the nation, making them the obvious choice for this investigative article.
not a very good quote, no link to where 'stonedcali' got that story. Devil is *always* in the details. From the other thread by 'pressure' where there is supposedly a lab test on view in the post(which it is not, only an img of a kurvana cartridge box/packing), the original source for this is from KNBC los angeles:

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/investigations/I-Team-Marijuana-Pot-Pesticide-California-414536763.html

I've said this elsewhere on FC before. A large number of distillates in cali have been caught with pesticides in them.
references?


Details, details, y do we even need to worry about that on a famous & informative site like FC?

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/investigations/I-Team-Marijuana-Pot-Pesticide-California-414536763.html

And *far* more important than the article, is the follow-up response:

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/invest...ults-Company-Statements-I-Team-414526923.html

none of u lawyers/barristers and solicitors going to chime in? 'caught' does not = 'failed a test'; big, big difference/distinction! words matter.

Flavrx was tested & passed in a regulated state: Oregon, click on the link to see the COA.

Werx shop owner Jeff Raber was interviewed & u can see the vid in the link above
G FarmaBrands Statement

This is G FarmaBrand’s response to a request for comment on an NBC 4 news story about the emerging California cannabis marketplace. We were provided with a laboratory report, wherein a variety of commonly used pesticides were purportedly found in one of our products marketed and sold as Liquid Gold Pure Red Oil. After a careful review of the subject laboratory report, which we conducted in conjunction with outside industry-leading scientific experts, we not only reject the validity of the particularized findings of the laboratory report, we also generally reject the efficacy of the methods and practices employed by the subject laboratory, Steep Hill Labs.

It should be noted that Steep Hill Labs has a pecuniary relationship with companies that currently market and sell cannabis products that are in direct competition with those marketed and sold by G FarmaLabs. As a functional business competitor, Steep Hill Labs has a direct conflict of interest when it comes to testing or otherwise revieiwng [sic] any of our products. Moreover, Steep Hill Labs lacks even the most basic ISO 17025 accreditation, which is the legal requirement for any state-licensed cannabis testing laboratory.

As the leading producer of cannabis products in the State of California, G FarmaLabs only works with the most highly regarded, ISO 17025 accredited laboratories. With the aid of industry leading scientist, such as Dr. Jeffery Raber of the Werc Shop, Dr. Roberts of CW Analytical, and Dr. Leah Shaffer from CannaSafe Analytics, G FarmaLabs has always gone above and beyond all legally mandated safety standards, and we remain steadfast in our commitment to providing our consumers with safe, high quality cannabis products that are second to none.
SC Labs is the counterpoint lab that G FarmaLabs used. If u can't trust Steep Hill or SC Labs, u can bet other labs are reporting numerous 'false' positives. There is that debate, when do women get tested for breast cancer, at what age? Too many false positives, leads to recommendations that women should get tested at later ages. But u decide when to get a breast scan, u decide if you want to get stressed on potential false positives...just don't go get a mastectomy based on a false positive, k.

yeah, bunch of lab tests of dubious veracity r showing a lot of pesticide contamination...except these could very well be erroneous tests!!! U r all downing/vaping massive amounts(though below other states levels) of all kinds of toxic chemicals...so says a PhD (not an expert medical researcher in the field nor MD/physician<many of which I would very much scrutinize what they say for any medical advise) in a lab testing facility.

fungicide upon heating can covert into...horrible deadly hydrogen cyanide....that is assuming you heat it enough, assuming there is enough quantity in the MMJ to even generate HC at temps being vaped at. Sure, it is a concern, especially if you smoke/combust, but I will bet cigarette smoke likely...ya think??? generates this hydrogen cyanide?...y yes, I googled it:

https://www.verywell.com/hydrogen-cyanide-in-cigarette-smoke-2824423

Guessing those ppl smoking cigarettes r dropping like flies> dead, all over the world...huh?

Devil is in the details, got to read *all* the data, and get counter point data!
 

seaofgreens

My Mind Is Free
So let me get this straight. A newspaper goes into 15 different places and gets 44 random samples, of which 41 come back over the limit... but that is just the labs/newspapers fault because all of the companies released PR statements and one posited that the lab lied?

A lab has no interest in generating false data, as whether of not it "benefits," them to false positive competition it also creates the possibility of ALL their data being suspect, and no self respecting facility would sell out their reputation for... that.

Is it possible to get conflicting data based on the portion of plant/concentrate material tested? Yes, and that was made clear. Is it still troubling that 41 of 44 random samples failed? Yes it is... to some of us anyways, not yourself obviously.
 

disruptxd

Active Member
I dont even live in a "legal" state but after a bit of trial and error you can def know what concentrates to buy. Get some FlavRX or KingPen 710. And what i notice isnt whether its made with metal/glass or just plastic. It seems like if theyre 1g, they usually have additives, and the 500mg ones are always advertised as pure, sometimes "no glycol", which is really the best you can ask for.

You just gotta know what brand is best for you. My main problem with pre-made c02 is the price, and its strangely lower at times here than say in cali, i guess bulk deals and the black market (i guess c02 thats been sitting around gets sold by the thousands or more). Commercially, those carts are so expensive for the fact that they last like 2 days tops for me. Def better to just vape bud with a firefly2 or crafty IMO. But its fast and potent. This is my fav brand At the moment

PS usually good oil is amber, clearer is better it seems. Much like BHO

Hey what battery do you use? I'm looking at the [swan] https://smokingvapor.com/the-swan-vaporizer-3.html at the moment at it seems pretty enticing. Any recommendations? I'm looking for sleek, slim, and good quality.

Also, what voltage is good for these type of carts?
 

DrewVape

Member
Op that's why concentrate is being pushed. Raw herb will be a thing of the past soon.. States will illegalize organic Cannabis like they have with milk, because of the living microbiology that's not exactly exclusive to the soil..

Producers are pushing processed herb for the very reason of being able to hide the quality of the source material and any additives.

They create trends to match their commercial productions methods. "Clarity counts" is one that gets me.. Go dab some lab grade pure liquid THC and tell me it compares to vaping flower.. The effects arent there. Same with all concentrates, they are always lacking compared to the same source material vaped in its flower form.

They are really pushing towards synthesized THC with fake terpenes if you want my honest opinion on the concentrate trend..

I would say grow and process your own, but thats increasingly illegal too.
 

shredder

Well-Known Member
Op that's why concentrate is being pushed. Raw herb will be a thing of the past soon.. States will illegalize organic Cannabis like they have with milk, because of the living microbiology that's not exactly exclusive to the soil..

Producers are pushing processed herb for the very reason of being able to hide the quality of the source material and any additives.

They create trends to match their commercial productions methods. "Clarity counts" is one that gets me.. Go dab some lab grade pure liquid THC and tell me it compares to vaping flower.. The effects arent there. Same with all concentrates, they are always lacking compared to the same source material vaped in its flower form.

They are really pushing towards synthesized THC with fake terpenes if you want my honest opinion on the concentrate trend..

I would say grow and process your own, but thats increasingly illegal too.
I don't think concentrates are "pushed" it's just the demand is changing.

I've read herb sales are mostly to older folks now, with concentrates more popular with younger users.

As always the times are changing. Not long ago the debate was joints or bongs. Now we have lots of choices, and I think that's great!

And concentrates concentrate impurities too, and this can be caught by a good lab. And more materials are being tested now and labs are springing up everywhere.

I don't think the future is as dark as some may think.
 

FlyingLow

Team NO SLEEP!
This title is a bit misleading from the topic.

I am fucking tired of all the bullshit fear mongering over concentrates.

Tanks CAN be problematic with unknown additives... Buy safe tested material or make it yourself.

For pens, I have found nothing that comes anywhere close to the quality from Evolab Chroma and Alchemy (colorado).
 

Vaporbabe

Member
No, you can't!, not unless you make them yourself or find a reputable supplier who makes Co2 concentrates! This is why I stick to clean grown herb, however, even then if you can't trust your supplier you could end up with rubbish!
 
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