Aren't these the same police shooting unarmed civilians, choking out medical patients, and abusing their captives? Isn't that tyranny?
We are discussing an issue that is only relevant after the dismantling of the mental health structure (that was incredibly abusive) but actually kept these megalomaniacs in a safe place. As late as 1960s my dad could order a truly automatic (and not the "automatic" that people keep calling the AR-15, which is no more automatic than a pistol) machine gun with a check in the mail and nothing else.
It's not the availability of guns that has changed the scene, its the culture and the lack of mental health oversight. I honestly feel our society has become so afraid of telling someone they might have a problem that we don't say anything at all, and then we all pay the consequences for it.
The mental health system was dismantled back in the Reagan administration. If a person has mental health problems they shoulldn't own a gun. Often we don't know that someone is unstable until they do something crazy.
There are good and bad cops in every area.
I don't know much about firearms, only what I read. So you know more than I regarding weapons.
I've never shot a gun.
Bottom line, it was a mistake to let the ban on assault weapons expire.
Now gun rights are being attacked disproportionately
The politics shouldn't be so hard on this one !
I just find the discussion so heavy handed depending on what the most recent tragedy happens to be. It makes honest discussion incredibly difficult.
And I am well aware of Reagan's failure in this regard. That was a monster that would have been as easy to "fix" as our current political division within the country. A restart maybe, but total dismantling was definitely not the right idea.
The ten-year ban was passed by the U.S. Congress on September 13, 1994, and signed into law by then President Bill Clinton the same day. The ban only applied to weapons manufactured after the date of the ban's enactment, and it expired on September 13, 2004, in accordance with its sunset provision.
Not Reagan, Vicki, Bill Clinton. And allowed to expire under GWB.
Get used to it America because 5 year olds do it too in elementary school. They all crouch in a dark area with the teacher. They also crowd in a 1 person bathroom. Its sad that we have to teach our children this.
We live in a gun crazy society. Thank you NRA and the spineless Republican Party. Really tired of hearing "Obama is trying to take our guns away" or "Hillary Clinton wants to abolish the second amendment" I for one don't want to live in an America that's more concerned about their guns than the safety of its citizens.
Stacey Wehrman Feeley
Stacey Freeley's photo of her 3-year-old daughter practicing a lockdown drill while playing at their home in Michigan has gone viral. more +
Stacey Feeley thought her 3-year-old daughter was innocently playing a game as she snapped a photo of her toddler, who she describes as "mischievous," standing on their toilet seat.
When Feeley found out her child was practicing a drill for what to do in the event of an active shooter in the building, she said it broke her heart.
I would argue we live in a crazy society WITH guns.
As I mentioned before, its more difficult than its ever been to buy a gun. Mail order rifles, machine guns, pistols, etc., without even verifying the address or calling the purchaser up until the 60s. The difference is the culture, not the weaponry. Hell, even before 1994 we didn't have this kind of atmosphere with guns and shootings, albeit it still happened.
Look at China. They have almost no guns in their general population. Yet, stabbings have been on the rise. Even mass stabbings.
Or Chicago, my back yard. Gun control city, 280 dead, 1810 people shot with guns just this year.
If we want to keep our kids safe maybe we should actually keep security at schools instead of posting signs saying "we are not protected" (ie, gun free zones). Keep in mind, I am not saying the answer is arming the teachers (unless they choose to do so themselves, as it should be a personal decision).
I guess that would depend on what state you live in or rather you have the time to drive to a state that is less restrictive. Federal laws and rules only apply to New and retail based sales. In Utah I can browse an online gun posting site and within a 10 mile radius of my house buy guns from private sellers alllll dayyyy longggg. No background check, and unless the guy is picky I'm not even required to present to him or her an ID. And unless you hold a specific type of felony or like a domestic abuse charge, there is no restriction to New retail gun ownership other than the hassle of standing there and waiting for a 2 minute phone call, little paperwork. No screenings or tests for mental illness, no requirement for training or Safety. 21 for a handgun, 18 for a rifle up to an including AR-15 type rifles. Not making value judgements on what type of gun I think anyone should own, but the restrictions or difficulty argument doesn't play out here in the west. And like I said if you are willing to drive as long as you have a valid ID you are good for same day rifle sales up to AR.
Agree the gun laws are tough in some areas but very easy to obtain in other areas. It comes down to more crazy people means more crazy people with guns. It really is a 2 part answer. assessability and the wrong people getting them.
I think it's important that we are proactive and make sure we are safe in schools and places where we work. The amount of deaths connected to guns is unacceptable. Every 17 minutes a death? I keep repeating it because it's unbeilable to me. I didn't realize that until a few weeks ago.
The reseller situation is one with more issues. However, most guns used in crimes are not going to used with weapons acquired like this. They still have serial numbers. Most buyers will not purchase unless the serial number is already scratched off. At least those are the statistics in Chicago.
The young man that killed those 9 people in S Carolina shouldn't have had a gun. There was an error, he had a drug arrest on file which would have eliminated him from getting a gun.
Americas murders are higher than other parts of the world and most of the time its done with some sort of a hand gun.
Im not talking about someone who likes to go hunting with a rifle for game like bird, deer or elk. I'm talking about all these idiots walking around with a hand gun.
I feel frustrated by all the needless deaths and thought I would put this out there. I hope we can be grown ups and be respectful of others feelings, myself included.
I want to generate intelligent discussions. Violent crimes with guns seem to be through the roof in large cities. I don't want this subject to be a lightening rod for some.
I have some serious questions about the affect the NRA has on our lawmakers and their decisions that they make.
With a knife you may kill one ,possibly two, and injure many. With an assault rifle, or any gun, you kill many and injure many. I would much prefer being in a situation with someone that has a knife compared to someone with a gun.
The unfortunate thing with Chicago is that their laws opened an opportunity for people in our state to sell firearms to people from Illinois.
CROWN POINT, Indiana — At a gun show on Indiana’s fairgrounds, hundreds of people filed past tables of firearms — World War Two relics, handguns, hunting rifles, and combat-grade automatic weapons — sprinkled with a selection of knives, Nazi artifacts, Confederate flags, dozens of anti-Obama and anti-Islam bumper stickers, and t-shirts with slogans including “Infidel” and “I want YOU to learn English.”
Indiana’s gun laws are relatively simple. Federally licensed “brick and mortar” gun dealers are required to perform standard background checks, while vendors selling their “private collections” at gun shows are not. An Indiana resident could walk out of the Crown Point gun show with a legally purchased assault rifle that same day — without a background check — less than an hour from Chicago, where assault rifles are banned. Handguns are subject to different regulations in Indiana.
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Guns bought from Indiana gun shows are showing up in more Illinois crimes, according to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms in Chicago.
But the highest percentage of people using guns for crimes in Illinois, got their weapon from their home state. Indiana ranks second with 21%, followed by Mississippi.
ATF officials said historically, Indiana's lax gun laws contribute to Illinois residents traveling across the border.
So I disagree with your assertion that guns are harder to get.
Since the Orlando shooting, AR-15’s have been a popular selling item in many gun stores across the country.
An AR-15 is a semi-automatic rifle that was made in 1959 by the Armalite Company.
Hunter’s Warehouse Owner Tom Engle told the FOX Business Network’s Stuart Varney, his online operation consisting of 300,000 to 400,000 weapons has sold 30,000 AR-15’s since Sunday.
A Federal Firearms License (FFL) lets gun-store owners manufacture and import firearms and ammunition across the United States. Even though each state has its own set of gun laws, Engle explained how it would be possible to buy an AR-15 online.
“You would have the firearm shipped to an FFL [agency] in your home state because every state is different and then we would ship that FFL firearms agency in your home state and they would be responsible to do the paperwork for you in your home state,” he said.
Engle said the price for AR-15’s ranges between $350 to $8,000, and despite the recent outflow of AR-15’s, shootings have no impact on gun sales.
And yet the opening of the article hints otherwise by its verbage.
Overall, getting a gun is much more difficult than it has been in the past. That's not to say its impossible, or even "hard," but there are many more pieces of tape to cut through or traveling to be had, etc. My original point still stands. We used to have direct access to fully automatic weaponry and we didn't have these issues with such prevalence whatsoever. Kids could buy rifles at the local store with a box of ammo on the way home from school. And it happened. A lot.
The societal structure and norms have changed so dramatically that these issues exist today in spite of the added measures that have been taken.
While skirting gun laws has always existed, its never been an issue as it stands now. And how many times has it been said here regarding cannabis, prohibition always leads to more crime. Gun runners in Chicago have created a very lucrative market reselling weapons.
When you know your target is "law abiding" and defenseless, it makes a difference in the psychology of the criminal. According to the Crime Prevention Resource Center: "Since at least 1950, only slightly over 1 percent of mass public shootingshave occurred where general citizens have been able to defend themselves. "
And yet the opening of the article hints otherwise by its verbage.
Overall, getting a gun is much more difficult than it has been in the past. That's not to say its impossible, or even "hard," but there are many more pieces of tape to cut through or traveling to be had, etc. My original point still stands. We used to have direct access to fully automatic weaponry and we didn't have these issues with such prevalence whatsoever. Kids could buy rifles at the local store with a box of ammo on the way home from school. And it happened. A lot.
The societal structure and norms have changed so dramatically that these issues exist today in spite of the added measures that have been taken.
While skirting gun laws has always existed, its never been an issue as it stands now. And how many times has it been said here regarding cannabis, prohibition always leads to more crime. Gun runners in Chicago have created a very lucrative market reselling weapons.
When you know your target is "law abiding" and defenseless, it makes a difference in the psychology of the criminal. According to the Crime Prevention Resource Center: "Since at least 1950, only slightly over 1 percent of mass public shootingshave occurred where general citizens have been able to defend themselves. "
Maybe we need to make destroying guns popular on the internet, like the ice bucket challenge deal..
"Find a safe, unique or unusual way of destroying your gun and post a video challenging your friends and family to do the same bla bla bla...". Call it the "AR challenge"
WASHINGTON — A Democratic sit-in on the House floor demanding votes on gun-control legislation led to a remarkable scene of pandemonium on Wednesday night as Speaker Paul D. Ryan was shouted down when he tried to regain control.
Democrats pressed against the podium, waving signs with shooting victims’ names and chanting “No bill! No break!” as Mr. Ryan repeatedly banged his gavel in an attempt to restore order.
When Mr. Ryan gave up and left the speaker’s chair, Democrats shouted, “Shame! Shame! Shame!”
There were scenes of chaos across the floor. At one point Democrats began singing “We Shall Overcome” — altering the lyrics to say “We shall pass a bill some day” — as Republicans shouted in outrage.
And when Representative Don Young, Republican of Alaska, tried to confront the chanting Democrats, he was restrained by aides and colleagues.
The chaos was set off when Democrats reiterated their demand for a vote on the gun measures before a weeklong recess for the July 4th holiday.
The NRA has a hold of the Republican's balls. There needs to be a starting point.
CK
Not sure how acting like children and passing a bill without actually reading it makes this the Reps problem, but I have never quite understood the back and forth in congress.
Gun-love leads to sanctifying the gun as though it were a fetus, never to be destroyed.
BTW, the deceased in the story had 6.5 TONS of ammo.
If you wish, Google and read more to understand the religious fervor of those infected by gun-love
Gun-love is the reason that America has a gun problem.
When laws are passed to outlaw destroying guns from gun buyback programs, then clearly some people equate guns to fetuses and consider the gun to be sacred (see links below).
Gun violence is a public health issue
Gun violence is carried by gun wielders
Until our nation's leaders figure out what is going on in this country, gun wielders need to be profiled and quarantined, until shown that they are not a public health risk
Read a few pages, was coming down off my Adderall last night....the words were flowing I guess
Omar Mateen used a Sig Saur MCX , which is a gun that has a modular caliber design....allows it to use different bullets. Other than it could use the same ammo as ar-15, that is where the similarities end. Insides totally different.
That's a different model than The Bernadino shooters. They used Smith & Wesson M&P 15 and a DPMS A-15 , both semi automatic rifles as well. They were considered illegally modified under CA law, the M&P had a modification to make it an "automatic rifle" (field tests show that this modification did not work, so it was semi automatic still) and the other had an illegal modification to hold more bullets in the magazine.
Sandy Hook used a Bushmaster. Semi Auto carbine rifle.
Aurora used the M&P 15 like Bernadino.
They are AR-15 variants, but to say the same weapon was used in all those killings is erroneous. The AR-15 was the original, and has been built upon and tweaked and used as a template for other guns, but them being AR-15 variants I don't think equals them being the same gun. Or the same model. Are a Ford Explorer, Ford Fusion, and Ford Mustang the same car?
Those are all Afghani type of weeds, weed with lineage in the Afghani strain, but they are not the same. Variants and building on the Afghani genetics, like how these guns are variants of the AR-15.
Just wanted to point that out, personally I don't see a use for any Semi Automatic Military Inspired Rifle with regards to civilians. Automatics are already heavily regulated (still should be without them IMO). I thought No Buy No Fly is a good idea, but I don't like the idea of the government assigning that....it's an easy way for them to garner too much control. Paranoid maybe. Still don't think they are necessary. Food for thought, if government watch list = no gun, MLK wouldn't be able to own one.
I don't think they're necessary, but why are they the big talking point? Big gun is scarier?
The idea that rifles are the issue just isn't grounded in reality, at all. This was super depressing to check on, but lets look at mass shootings in the US....
1. Pulse, used a semi automatic rifle and pistol
2. VT, used 2 pistols.
3. SH, used semi automatic rifle.
4. Luby's 2 pistols.
5. San Ysidro, Pistol and shotgun.
6. UT, an array of weapons but he did use semi auto rifles.
7. Columbine, 2 shotguns, 1 pistol, 1 carbine Pistol (has longer barrel)
8. Edmond Post office shooting, 3 pistols
9. San Bernadino, semi automatic rifle
10. Binghampton Immigration Civic Center, 2 pistols
11. Fort Hood 2009, 2 pistols
12. Wah Mee Massacre, Can't find a record of weapons used
13. Aurora, Semi Auto Rifle, shotgun. pistol
14. Washington Navy Yard, Shotgun & Pistol
Some others:
Colorado Springs PP - semi automatic rifle
Umpqua Community College - 5 pistols
Chatanooga - Semi Auto Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun
Charleston - 2 pistols
Isla Vista - 3 handguns
Fort Hood 2014 - Handgun
2013 Santa Monica - A Pistol and a semi automatic rifle that he built himself and used a mill to shape pieces
Azana Spa Shooting 2013 - Pistol
2012 Sikh Temple - Pistol
Crazy how many shootings there have been....... I listed 23, between the deadliest in U.S. and some more recent.....8 used Semi automatic rifles. Next on the list was Minneapolis 2012, one pistol, just to round up to an even third.
And I was trying to go back from most recent after I touched on the deadliest, and forgot 2011 Tucson. 1 pistol. 25 shootings.........holy shit
So, although I think semi auto rifles aren't necessary, the idea they are the big issue I think is proven false. Crazies will kill with anything, and they can do it effectively without a rifle.
Actually reminded me of a local story. In March this year, a group of people were having a BBQ in Pittsburgh. 5 people killed + 1 unborn child, and 3 others injured including one whose paralyzed now. Black on black crime so I guess it doesn't come up as a mass shooting or as heavily talked..... finally saw a little blurb this morning nationally (Only on Fox too, MSNBC doesn't have anything about it )
Regardless. These two guys were just finally charged today. What they did was have one posted at the very back of bbq backyard, and it was in city so there are alleys between houses. That guy fired shots at the group and into the air.....they panic and run to backdoor..... 2nd guy is posted in an alley parallel with back door and uses a rifle to shoot them as they get on the porch. It was targeted and planned, do you think the rifle was the thing that really made the difference here? It certainly was effective, but I feel that a handgun or shotgun would still of gravely injured these people, especially with the planning involved. Guy 1 purposefully didn't hit them....rifle guy wanted revenge....but guy 1 + 2 both aiming without rifles I don't see any way it's better outcome.
I hope gun violence can end, but I don't know how and I feel people are shortsighted when it comes to addressing the issue. Maybe we should really ban all guns? The rifle talk is a talking point designed to stir emotion, to really address the issue we should ban all guns like Aus? Or we should ban pistols since they are the cause of more deaths and used in more mass shooting?
I've said it once, I've said it twice, I don't think big rifles are necessary so please don't take me for a gun nut or a gun defender, but you'll be hard pressed to convince me that the rifles are the issue. Everytime I see them referred to as an automatic weapon I just lose a bit more faith....that's simply shoddy research or journalism.
I won't talk about the Democratic sitdown really other than stress they have to get it to pass in the Senate first so all in all seemed pretty childish especially when their party wasn't even unified on that front (they are lucky some Reds are a bit more middle of road and voted with them), but I don't understand congress machinations either. Seems like a stunt to draw eyes & emotion though and I wouldn't consider any of them heroes or virtuous by pouting. I admire the efforts to curb guns.....the approach is all wrong though in my eyes though..
Even the far right and vocal gun advocate Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia has said the 2nd amendment isn't unlimited.
I often hear people say, "Criminals do not follow laws". Laws against rape, murder, and theft, for example, are rarely followed by rapists, murderers, and thieves, but the fact that such people exist in society is the reason behind such regulations in the first place.
If we were to accept that a law is justified only if it has a 100% compliance rate, then we could dismantle every existing law until nothing remains but the state of nature. Laws against murder, rape, and theft would be abandoned out of fear that criminals wouldn’t follow them, and that they would thus hurt law-abiding citizens who ostensibly murder, rape, and thieve out of self-defense.
To think that the minor inconvenience of gun reforms such as background checks, waiting periods, and assault weapon bans is more burdensome than the death of thousands of innocent civilians each year reflects an odd sense of what matters in the world.
I'm sorry for triple posting. I couldn't post my response in the post above.
My response to her reply;
Ms. Walorski,
The attack in Orlando was NOT carried out by an isis (not capitalized purposely) operative. This tragedy was carried out by a mentally ill and unstable man that had conflict with his religious beliefs and life style.
He pledged allegiance to Al Nusra a few months ago. Al Nusra is an enemy of isis. To say he was an operative of issi is deeply troubling and irresponsible on your part.
Please enjoy your last term. Mr. Lynn Coleman will be an honest and just congressman.
Sincerely,
Lynn Coleman will be challenging Ms. Walorski for her congressional seat this November.
!
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