Winterizing Rosin - Educate me please :)

[Sick Vape]

Vac Pump :

i would love to use this
https://www.fishersci.de/shop/products/pvc-vacuman-vacuum-pump/10688242

small and easy stowable anywhere...would that be enuf ?

and if not

file:///C:/Users/rundphi/Downloads/Data_Sheet_N86KN-18__E210.pdf

i want to use that one to have no hassle with oil, those are dry running but as i am no expert on pumps..will this one work..?

Did you check the water-jet-pumps for this application? Might be an idea.
Like for example https://www.fishersci.de/shop/products/water-jet-pump-6/10486651#?keyword=wasserstrahlpumpe
They offer many different, some pretty cheap.
This one is relatively expensive, but it was developed specially for filtration purposes and has security valve, it seems. They all work. Problem might be that you need running water to operate them.

 

[btka]

The real key to rosin cartridges is to start with great hash. The pros just use hash rosin + jar tek. That's it. https://www.instagram.com/p/BvxGw1elLzC/

All other methods will alter the rosin significantly.

I read a lot about jar tek... but the techniques vary a lot... do you know and have experience with jar tek and can recommend me a working routine... at best step by step guide (tutorial)

Found a little vid showing how they make their vape oil, cool stuff! Just co2 extracted cannabis terpenes reintroduced to strain specific co2 extracted wax.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BpDD1Znno6w/

is he mixing terps with rosin?


as far as I gathered my information I do not think winterization (to make carts) is up to date nowadays... especially in solventless times... and there are other ways to do it (better) I think...

 

[invertedisdead]

I read a lot about jar tek... but the techniques vary a lot... do you know and have experience with jar tek and can recommend me a working routine... at best step by step guide (tutorial)

The Kennwall vid on Youtube is probably one of the best resources, or just read R/rosin on reddit. I've only done jar tek with flower rosin, you want to use great quality hash to make rosin cartridges. How great are your hash making skills, cause I would probably start there.

is he mixing terps with rosin?

The terpenes and wax were both extracted with supercritical co2. You could apply the same concept to rosin with the right equipment, some people have done it. Need lots of material to play with I'm sure to get it down though.

as far as I gathered my information I do not think winterization (to make carts) is up to date nowadays... especially in solventless times... and there are other ways to do it (better) I think...

Winterization is generally for people who start with "crude" oil.

The most cutting edge, high quality cartridge companies tend to not winterize anymore, in my experience. It affects flavor so doing a more flavorful extraction method only to winterize doesn't really help much.

 

[Sick Vape]

especially in solventless times... and there are other ways to do it (better) I think...

I am iterested in this too. What other ways to remove waxes and lipids from rosin do you know of?

 

[gunmetalshark]

As i had a nice useable product after my first winterization tries i just started a new attempt yesterday,
dissolved 5g Rosin in 100ml 95%alc at 40°C
It now sits in my freezer till tomorrow then i will filter it with a coffee filter first and after that with syringe filters...that and the fact i used the double amount of alc makes me hope the filterin with syringe filters will work out better..

I will also try to let the alc evaporate at 40°C instead of 90°C i used the last times...the long heating destroys pretty alot of terpenes and therefore takes alot of taste away from the final product...after that i hope that the visco is still liquid enuf for carts...if not i will again decarb it but for a way shorter duration (about 120°C for 20mins) maybe that helps...if not i gues the only way getting flavor back into the game is adding terps :/

i also aquired a buchner funnel, a flask and several filters but still missing a vac. pump....my thoughts are circling around a Extractcraft Source..maybe for xmas hmm...lol

 

[gunmetalshark]

So seems like filtering with a coffee filter before the syringe ones is the trick,
now i can use a syringe filter for about 40-50ml til it gums up...thats about ten times more
as without pre-filtering so i can anyone just advice to do so aswell

I am now at getting the alc evaporated what seems to be a loooong task at 50°C..i kept my stiiring plate on over night and the temp did rise to about 60°C but still...only about 20ml gone in 6h or so...phew...i think i rly need to invest into a Source to get that done faster and with even lower temps...will keep u guys updated but i think im on the right track

 

[PPN]

So seems like filtering with a coffee filter before the syringe ones is the trick,
now i can use a syringe filter for about 40-50ml til it gums up...thats about ten times more
as without pre-filtering so i can anyone just advice to do so aswell

I am now at getting the alc evaporated what seems to be a loooong task at 50°C..i kept my stiiring plate on over night and the temp did rise to about 60°C but still...only about 20ml gone in 6h or so...phew...i think i rly need to invest into a Source to get that done faster and with even lower temps...will keep u guys updated but i think im on the right track

Did you let it to sit in the pictured jar? if you throw it in something wider, like a plate, evaporate duration will be shorter but still need some patience... at the end it's longer cause the water rest takes longer to evaporate although most separates and you can get it out manually (not all but most of it) to fasten things.

Remenber to put a layer of protection on the top of your plate to avoid some dust to pollute your concentrate (I use a very fine mosquito protection for windows) or do that in a very, very clean environment.

I have to buy some of this syringe filters...

 

[gunmetalshark]

Yeah, i let it in that jar put it on my heating/stirring plate and let a magnet stir do its work at 50°C,
a buddy also told me to use something with a bigger surface for faster evaporation aswell but i dont want to use too much
vessels since i loose some product everytime i pour it from one to another but i see the point, thanks

i have a big glass bowl that covers the whole surface to not get any dirt into the solution, will do another pic later when at home...my vape place begins to look like a mad scientists lab loool

edit.

i bought those, 100 for 50€ was the best price i found, but takes 2-3weeks from china :/
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07D4G58BR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[pxl_jockey]

I was thinking about getting the dabpress sauce plate/PID setup but then our resident mad scientist @gunmetalshark just reminded of those thingamabobs from Chemistry Lab and DAMN they're really cheap on fleaBay. Same sorta digital display and steady, accurate temps with the unbeatable option of magic-magnetic stirring for less than half the price of the sauce plate. And definitely more crazy looking than the DP sauce plate, which is rather slick looking imo, the lab hot plate reminds me of last century. I guess because that's when I last used one?

Anyway, something to consider... the lab plate seems like it would be overkill since my main purpose is simply to have a consistent and accurate method to decarb rosin in my studio rather than my wife's kitchen. In theory, filling carts with rosin would be cool but realistically, I just don't have any extra energy to pioneer new tech like Gunny. I figure I'll have plenty to learn and experiment, being a complete neophyte to rosin squishing.

What do y'all think about me buying a sauce plate or hotplate for decarb/postprocessing right now? My thought was to get everything all at once but is there an argument to wait until I've mastered rosineering first? Any thoughts welcome!

 

[gunmetalshark]

If u only want to decarb, what takes about 27 minutes at 122°C (give or take ), u can also
use ur press...with it u alrdy have a pair of heating plates...just make sure the container is small enough height wise so it fits into the press but then ur good to go without spending anymore money (and place at home )

The dabpress sauce plate is more for longtime heating from the underside what is used with jartek to make thc crystals.

And yes it takes quite some time and money to get rosin carts to work i will say, but maybe its just me...
Rly depends on what u plan on doing but for the start i think the press is enuf, from there u will see if ur into all that squishing and rosin stuff.
What also comes into consideration for peops like us that live in prohibited countrys is the yield gets lower the purer the product gets..20g weed -> 5g Rosin -> ~2,8g winterized rosin etc. and dont expect anything to run perfect at the beginning

 

[pxl_jockey]

I haven’t looked too deep into jartek yet to know if it would be beneficial in my situation tbh. So much of the details I've glossed over since it’s all been hypothetical and didn’t know when I would have press, material, etc. So now it’s time for me to get serious and really pay attention.

At every step of my vaping journey, I know that FC increased my success by giving me an example or guidance that I could follow. I haven’t made a bunch of bad purchases thanks to FC but then again, I’ve probably spent more money on vape stuff thanks to FC as well! I can’t wait to make my own solventless concentrate medicine.

EDIT: Apologies good people! I thought I was in the post processing rosin thread and not the rosin winterisation thread, which is why I was way the fuck off topic. So sorry for that! Ta!

 

[gunmetalshark]

Hehe, too much Rosin Threads going on here
Here´s what my construction looks like, right now i alrdy am at 40ml left from the 100ml i started at...guess sometime
today it should be rdy

 

[btka]

do not think you will need the syringe filters really anymore... you already winterized... I would fill one cart with the winterized to test... as you said each process you add your end product get´s less...

and to be honest you also do not really need rosin... especially if you will buy a source craft... rosin is good if you want to be 100% solventless... maybe distillation would be more efficient and you would get out more from your starting product.. think also source craft: putting buds or trim in very cold alcohol shake it good... filter the buds and trim out of alcohol... freeze the ramaining... filter it (like you did winterizing)... put this in the source craft...let the alcohol evaporate and voila fill your carts... the rosin pressing in this process is not needed (absolute useless) and think you will get smaller yields... also If you do it like this you will not need syringe filters with 0.25 or 0.45 microns maybe if you want to filter out bacteria or mold but not needed to filter out wax or lipids after already winterizing... the syringe filters should be a short cut if you do not want to use alcohol and if you do not want to do the whole winterizing process...

 

[gunmetalshark]

I don't know what micron size this coffee filter is I bought from amazon but I guess somewhere in the 200 range give or take,
it would def. be interesting if this filtering is enuf for not gumming up the ccells I may try that in future..at least with a smaller amount to fill like one cart and see how it acts..

For the EC Source, if I really buy one there will get a lot more options to test out hehe...also an ardent nova has catched my eyes...this way I could decrarb the bud before processing and therefore rly just use low temp. on all further steps...like 30°.
This time I also just use temps under 50°C but I think it will get to thick if purged out and will need a reheat/decarb at higher temp to get the visco. more source like

 

[btka]

I don't know what micron size this coffee filter is I bought from amazon but I guess somewhere in the 200 range give or take,
it would def. be interesting if this filtering is enuf for not gumming up the ccells I may try that in future..at least with a smaller amount to fill like one cart and see how it acts..

For the EC Source, if I really buy one there will get a lot more options to test out hehe...also an ardent nova has catched my eyes...this way I could decrarb the bud before processing and therefore rly just use low temp. on all further steps...like 30°.
This time I also just use temps under 50°C but I think it will get to thick if purged out and will need a reheat/decarb at higher temp to get the visco. more source like

when you freeze the solution the micron size should not be that important as the waxes and lipids freesze together and get lumpy (it is like you can give a soup in the cold the fats waxes and so on will lump together) ... the syringes are as far as I understand only a shortcut to avoid the process of winterizing and for smaller sizes of used material... the filter syringes we use are for seperating mold, bacteria, spores and so not to filter waxes and lipids...

and also I think it does not really matter where in the process you decarb... and if you use then lower temps for other things... if you decarb with 122 celsius the terps and other volatile things will evaporate... you can then also use 122 celsius later (maybe I would not because of fire... and so) the volatile things did evaporate anyways while decarbing... so it would not matter anymore...

 

[gunmetalshark]

So getting more terpenes into the final cartridge was more or less a fail :/
I kept on evaporating the alc during the weekend (took 3 days at 50°C) but in the end the
winterized rosin was too thick at 50°C so i decided to give it a 20min decarb at 122°
(my heating plate needs some time to reach and climb down again so i choose a bit of less time)

Now the visco is great, even better than the last batch and i also recovered 2,84g oof 5,14g what is more than my last tries but the taste is nearly the same as last time...maybe a tiny amount more flavour but def. not worth working 2 days longer for it ;/

So my 2 next logical ways would be

a.) try the source, it uses even less temp to evap. the alc (40°C~) and waaaay faster (6h vs 48h)...i maybe have to also have to decarb to get the right visco but that would be a min. amount of time.

b.) buy canna dervied terpenes and add those after decarbing...would in theory be the best bet but i hate to add something again
and it rises my coast again to make those carts :/

I know the source is also a lot but just one time and if i can keep my ingriedients then 100% home made it would be worth to me,
hm have to think about it but guess ill try both ways
First will be getting canna terps, dawa seems to have a nice price/amount ratio..terp alchemy would be easier to get but are nearly double the price and half the amount

 

[gunmetalshark]

So, bought some Terpenes yesterday (Terpsalchemy, Triple Berry Goo)
and started my newest attempt...pressed 20g of my LA Choclate to get 5,14g fresh Rosin
and dissolved it right after pressing in 100ml Alc...

Here´s a pic where you can see just how many lipids/fats are in the solution...crazy and no wonder it gums up syringe filters so fast without pre-filtering

This time i will again use higher temp for evaporating the alc and do a quick decarb after that, then ill wait till the solution cools down again to room temp and add the terpenes as last step...i hope the solution will then be liquid enuf to put into carts..if not i will carefully raise temp until it is

 

[pxl_jockey]

Okay @gunmetalshark now keep in mind my knowledge of these things and treat me like a child , but if it’s not liquid-y enough and you gently heat it until it’s injectable into carts, what’s going to happen when, once in the cart, the viscosity changes again? Does the battery also preheat the oil before it does whatever happens next? Like I said, I know nothing and haven’t looked into the products, process and technology to do with carts much at all. Looks like you are becoming a mad scientist, am I going to have to start calling you Professor?

I love following your experiments in rosin post-processing and I’m excited in general about the possibility of rosineering for myself but this stuff you’re doing is waaaay out of my league. And way out of my comfort zone on the diminishing returns and the sheer amount of material that you’ve put into exploring the CCell tech.

Also shoutout to the homie @btka seems like I don’t see you around much lately. Take it easy my man

 

[gunmetalshark]

It needs to be more liquid for filling into the carts as i have to first get that stuff into a syringe and from there into the carts, it wont get solid again after cooling but stays sappy...sappy enuf for working in the ccell carts but too thick to get it into and out of the syringe

There are indeed batteries that have a pre-heat function but in my scenario it´s not needed, would may come in handy if used outdoor now in winter or at low temps generally..time will tell

I am far away from beeing a Prof. or mad scientist although my vaping room rly is transforming into a lab right now lol, just triing my best to get those carts to work the way i want it and with sharing i hope to get more input that helps me moving on etc.

Sharing = Caring

 

[pxl_jockey]

So I saw this stuff called Wax Liquidizer that says it turns wax, shatter, rosin, whatever into an e-juice. It comes in Original and other flavours, here’s their site:

https://www.waxliquidizer.com/

Doubt it’s something you’re going to use but I immediately thought of you. I am interested in what you and others think of this stuff. Everyone have good weekend!

 

[gunmetalshark]

Yeah I know that stuff, there are several brands like EJ Mix, Wax, etc. but im not into that, u basically mix ur rosin/shatter etx. with Peg200/400 in a 1:1 - 2:1 ratio meaning u take away at least 50% potency and add "chemicals" therefore..not what I like to do..im searching for a way to use 100% rosin or at least just 5% (canna derived) terpenes to get back a bit of flavor.

Still have a nearly full bottle of EJ Mix but I don't intend to use it anymore, have tried it but im not into that and with all the nowadays upcoming reports of health issues cuz of carts/pens I am double aware of what im putting into my body

 

[PPN]

Hi, I have this wax Liquidizer from a while and bottle is up of 90% full even if I use it sometime but never at the ratio @gunmetalshark mentionned... I just use a few drops per gram (5-6) to thin slightly the well filtered and purged bho I'm using for carts, I filled a Hermès3 0.5g cart with that mix (2 drops for 0.4g, it didn't filled the tank fully), the cart was already filled once with bho+terp and it still work very well.

 

[gunmetalshark]

So, tried mixing my rosin with terpenes but im not sold, after decarbing i cooled the rosin again to about 30°C
to not get all the terps i want to add evaporated the next moment...but at that temp the rosin got pretty solid..even after adding the terps (about 4-5 drops ((0.15ml)) the solution wouldnt get liquid enuf for putting into a syringe..also pured in some drops of flavorless terps...may have been a fail..anyway. Then i had to warm it to about 60°C to get in finally liquid enuf to pull into my syringe, filled up my carts and let em sit for a week now..taste is different and recognizable from the smell of the terps, not very prominent...overall the vapor is also harsher...that may also come from my flav. terps as i expirienced such harshness before..

I think i will stay without adding anything, in A/B i do like the rosin-only carts better bcs of the real hashy tast although the way i process all strains taste pretty the same , i rly wanna get a source turbo and extract at 30°C all the way...then just a short decarb to get it liquid enuf and activated may be better than 6-8h boiling at 90°C as im doing now i would think, could preserve a bit more taste..?

 

[gunmetalshark]

Back again after a longer brake...brake doesnt mean stand still but since we got a dog things changed
and i have way less time for my science than before but am waaaaay more active
My wife and i were at her relatives at last years christmans time / NY´s Eve and in return i got green light for buying a ExtractCraft Source Turbo.
...I have to say the best EQ i bought in a long time, think the best since my dabpress hehe

Í´m just enjoying my newest batch of carts right now and love them, a good friend of mine and myself come to the same conclusion that those are the best yet flavor wise, it is now really where i like it to be and there are even more improvements i can think of so the limit isnt touched yet :yum:
My Workflow as of now is pressing my weed 5 days after harvest, thats when humidity is where i want it to be and then dissolve the rosin in Alc (95%), after 24h in the freezer i filter it with a buchner funnel/slow papers first and syringe filter(s) afterwards (those are necassary if u want crystal clear product)
After that i let it do its thing in the source...keep it in the crucible to about 100ml and switch then to 150ml/50ml glass beakers.

...when condensing stops i put it on the stirring/heating plate and let it decarb at 127°C for about 20 min. thats pretty damn exactly when bubbles stop appearing...after that just pull up a syringe and into the carts, voila
I think further purging isnt needed cuz the alc should compl. evap during the decarb process and even if there would be small amounts left..those are also present in liquids u can buy...at least there is zero alc. taste or smell in the end product

I can def. think of lowering the heat at the pressing more or doing dry-sift QWET´s for even less heat exposure for a even tastier endproduct...decarbing seems to be the only process i cant rly avoid heat wise but its def. needed for getting the visco. into the right state for use in carts and it does make u huge difference if u can avoid most heat and just decarb versus letting the Eth. evap at much higher temp on the stiiring plate