Why would anyone not prefer vaporizing?

[luchiano]

Your right on the money Max. I know two people fighting cancer who prefer to vape at higher temperatures than what I do, still not hot enough to combust but hotter than me. They sacrifice the number of draws they get but they get more intense draws.

The difference in a notch or so is very signficant to each of them, they are not users of weed otherwise.

yesterday I also forgot to mention another method that would make everyone happy with the vaporizer experience including medical users and it's vaporizing your herb until it taste like popcorn and then taking a little bit and smoking it right after you vaporize.

What you are doing is giving your cells the active chemicals such as terpenoids, flavonoid , and thc in their whole form due to no combustion being done to them which decomposes them BUT there are also a little bit of the "heavier" cannabinoids left over such as cbd and cbc which vaporize at higher temperatures than thc. You also have some thc left over in the plant fibers due to the fibers absorbing oils very well.

When you burn the little plant matter you are releasing whatever is left over but more importantly you are getting most of the cbd which will enhance the high from the vaporizer due to cbd inhibiting thc metabolism which means a longer high.

Using a water filter will prevent a lot of the problems from smoking and also because you are using very little herb there isn't that much health concerns.

I want to stress that vaporizing BEFORE smoking is very important because you are allowing your cells to take in as much of the active chemicals as possible without any carcinogenic chemicals coming into the system which will active the immune system and take away from the high somewhat. You are actually enhancing your immune system because some of the terpenoids and flavonoids, actually enhance your immune system and when you do smoke your body doesn't have to work as hard to get rid of the carcinogenic compounds which means a better high.

You are also making the cell more fluid and allowing it to take in more chemicals which means a powerful high but this ultimately has to go along with your diet and how much hormones and neurotransmitters you have available to be released but it's still better than smoking everything at once because if you do that the cbd will actually prevent you from getting REAL high due to it inhibiting thc metabolism and when taking together prevents a certain amount from getting to the cell which is why smoking will only get you high to a point.

So to end my post let me say you want to take in as much vapor as you can, exhale through the nose slowly, and then smoke a little herb right after you vaporize to prolong the high and also to make it more profound. Peace.

 

[luchiano]

I forgot to mention that you want to use a beeline when burning the herb or even hash because it burns at a much lower temperature than lighters due to the beeswax.

This prevents much of the chemicals decomposing from high heat which lighters bring which means more of an effect.

beeline:
www.beelinehawaii.com

 

[Beezleb]

I know of people who kept weed in a humidor. The real difference was those who could afford one verses those who never really thought about it.

Hardly a realistic gage but I couldnt really tell the difference in humidor weed verses regular weed but I never gave it the old pepsi challenge. What I can say is I never smoked humidor weed and thought man, I got to do this.

For those who like to smoke/vape and are way into the flavor this probably more important to them than say someone like myself who is more concerned about just using the plant and dont have the luxury to be picky.

Those that I knew who used the humidor lived in Europe. One looked like a desk kind of thing and the other was a walk in high tech one, but he was also way into cigars too.

In some of the documentaries on growing weed had stated to use a humidor to make it smoother. So says Jorge Cervantes ultimate grow guide I believe it was but I never was one for having much of a good memory but im pretty sure I saw him talk about that.

Interesting discussion Luchiano

 

[luchiano]

I know of people who kept weed in a humidor. The real difference was those who could afford one verses those who never really thought about it.

Hardly a realistic gage but I couldnt really tell the difference in humidor weed verses regular weed but I never gave it the old pepsi challenge. What I can say is I never smoked humidor weed and thought man, I got to do this.

For those who like to smoke/vape and are way into the flavor this probably more important to them than say someone like myself who is more concerned about just using the plant and dont have the luxury to be picky.

Those that I knew who used the humidor lived in Europe. One looked like a desk kind of thing and the other was a walk in high tech one, but he was also way into cigars too.

In some of the documentaries on growing weed had stated to use a humidor to make it smoother. So says Jorge Cervantes ultimate grow guide I believe it was but I never was one for having much of a good memory but im pretty sure I saw him talk about that.

Interesting discussion Luchiano

Thank you Beezlab for your information to bring into the discussion.

Also, yes the humidor will make it smoother but it also "ferments" the herb as time goes on and breaks the chemicals down without much degradation due to low oxygen, heat, and light.

Humidors can be used with beads that make sure the humidity stays constant with no change which means no chance of mold and they use distilled water which means no worries of dangerous chemicals being inhaled.

When I first learned all this I figured cannabis users will love this but for the most part they want to stick with their glass jars due to fear of mold growth and also being told it won't work because tobacco is "different" from herb.

Anyway, try it out sometime. Peace.

 

[Spiderman]

vaporizing your herb until it taste like popcorn and then taking a little bit and smoking it right after you vaporize.

[emerges from the shadows]
Please don't.....i just gagged a little....

And yes, iv done it....

As for humidors...herb and tobacco are cured to drastically different standards. IIRC, tobacco leaves should be cured for 4-6 years before being smoked. The flavor comes primarily from the leaf itself, and allowing it to break down this slowly preserves subtle and unique elements of the flavor, while making it rather smooth.
Herb should be properly dried, and then cured for anywhere from 1-6 months ideally. In fact, Iv smoked 5 year old herb that was very well preserved (airtight, no light, cool) and it really was nowhere near as good as the same herb, cured 6 months. Also, the flavor and other actives which come from herb are primarily from the resin glands.

I can see why it makes sense to cure in a humidor, and even why it might produce good results. But proper drying/curing techniques can create the same smooth sweet smoke that the humidor strives to acheive, in a shorter and more cost effective time frame.

 

[stickstones]

luchiano...I have a humidor (a little box one my friend gave me for cigars) that I don't use. I'm interested in trying what you say, but it goes against everything I have been raised on!

The risk to mold is real, yes? I know people who have lost entire boxes of Cubans for not taking proper care of their humidors.

 

[luchiano]

luchiano...I have a humidor (a little box one my friend gave me for cigars) that I don't use. I'm interested in trying what you say, but it goes against everything I have been raised on!

The risk to mold is real, yes? I know people who have lost entire boxes of Cubans for not taking proper care of their humidors.

The risk is real but only if you go past a certain humidity level. Keeping it around 60%-70% will prevent mold.

Using a humidipak will keep this balance for up to 6 months even your not around.

http://www.humidipak.com/

 

[luchiano]

vaporizing your herb until it taste like popcorn and then taking a little bit and smoking it right after you vaporize.

[emerges from the shadows]
Please don't.....i just gagged a little....

And yes, iv done it....

As for humidors...herb and tobacco are cured to drastically different standards. IIRC, tobacco leaves should be cured for 4-6 years before being smoked. The flavor comes primarily from the leaf itself, and allowing it to break down this slowly preserves subtle and unique elements of the flavor, while making it rather smooth.
Herb should be properly dried, and then cured for anywhere from 1-6 months ideally. In fact, Iv smoked 5 year old herb that was very well preserved (airtight, no light, cool) and it really was nowhere near as good as the same herb, cured 6 months. Also, the flavor and other actives which come from herb are primarily from the resin glands.

I can see why it makes sense to cure in a humidor, and even why it might produce good results. But proper drying/curing techniques can create the same smooth sweet smoke that the humidor strives to acheive, in a shorter and more cost effective time frame.

Maybe you did try the smoking after vaporizing method but this is the internet and who knows if people are telling the truth but others have tried it and said it does work but hey maybe it didn't work for you.

As far as smoking 5 year old herb and it not being better than 6 months cured herb, you are actually proving my case for me. Of course 6 months of cured herb would be better than 5 years old herb that has been preserved because one has more moisture than the other and moisture speeds up the process.

Take that same herb and put it in a humidor that has humidipak at 70% humidity and see the results in 3 months and you will see a major difference.

If you use the fine grind method I mentioned use a 65% rh humidty humidipak and you will see a big difference.

 

[luchiano]

Here's an article on humidors and cannabis:

http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/2776.html

Store your stash
by Pete Brady. Posted on Wednesday, March 5 2003 08:00:00 AM

* CC41
* Advice
* MARIJUANA LIFESTYLE

The Stash Boxx provides the ultimate in safe storage of your kind buds.

Whenever I see somebody take bud for which they just paid $400 an ounce, and put it in a plastic bag, I wince.
Like tobacco, fruit and other natural products, marijuana cannot retain its most sought after characteristics if it is handled roughly or stored improperly. Heat, light, and humidity affect the freshness, smokeability, and potency of marijuana.

Jon Stashman is a Northern California woodworker, designer and entrepreneur who wants to solve your pot storage problems with his series of "Stash Boxx" containers that provide watertight, airtight compartments ideal for marijuana.

"The most common form of stash deterioration results from dehydration," Stashman explains. "Freshly manicured stash needs adequate moisture content. Moisture allows stash to retain its shape, malleability, and fresh flavor. If you look at newly-manicured stash and compare it to stash that is six months old, especially if the stash has been stored in a paper bag, you will see the difference. Fresh hydrated stash looks good and smokes smooth, but improperly stored stash dries out and falls apart."

Stash Boxx containers minimize dehydration and other problems. They are made of unbreakable glass-reinforced "ABS" plastic. Unlike other plastic, ABS cannot absorb outside odors and does not give off its own odor. Other plastics, like the polyurethane used in food storage containers, impart a chemical odor to herb, and smoking such herb might introduce harmful by-products into your lungs.

Stashman says Stash Boxx products are so resistant to external air and water that they have been tested at depths of 100 feet and show no sign of rupture or leakage.

"We equip them with a neoprene O-ring which creates an air-tight, water-tight environment," Stashman explains. "Because Stash Boxx is air-tight, it is also absolutely odor-proof. The smaller boxes are lined with a closed cell foam that provides shock resistance should the box be dropped. Our larger boxes are lined with "pluck-and-pull" foam. This foam is pre-formed into cubes that can be pulled out to form interior storage space in any shape you can imagine. Customers use Stash Boxxes to store breakable smoking accessories or sensitive items such as scales and electronic equipment."

Some tokers believe that storing cannabis in mason jars or plastic bags in the freezer is the ideal way to preserve freshness and potency, but Stashman says that "unless you're very careful to remove all the air from the freezer bag, sub-zero temperatures will greatly accelerate the drying process and could damage sensitive plant tissue."

If your stash has become dry and crumbly, Stashman says, Stash Boxx sells two sizes of humidifiers and a distilled water/propylene glycol solution that preserves correct humidity while also preventing mold growth. Storage mold is a vicious intruder that can destroy treasured stash virtually overnight.

And in case you're worried about using propylene glycol, Stashman says it's used extensively and safely in the tobacco and wine industries to prevent mold growth.

"It is absolutely non-toxic and odorless. It does not impart foreign flavors into tobacco, wine, or stash," he explains. "A few drops of our glycol/distilled water solution will perfectly preserve your stash."

Stash Boxx design and materials are the result of Stashman's experience in the cigar and pipe tobacco industries. He says that most other marijuana storage systems, especially those that are made of wood, are objectively inferior to Stash Boxx.

"Wood allows moisture to escape from your stash thereby contributing to the drying process," he says. "Also, wood expands and contracts radially and tangentially. This loosens glued joints and will eventually cause the box to destabilize. Also, some wood and wood glues impart undesirable odors into your stash."

So if you are wondering why your precious marijuana does not look, smoke or stone as well as it did when you first bought it, analyze your storage methods. Are you exposing your herb to extremes of heat or cold? Are you storing your herb with too little or too much humidity? Do you have your weed in a container that seals tight and is impervious to water or air?

I tried Stash Boxx; it improved the quality and durability of my medicine. Check out the Stash Boxx product line and you will be on your way to preserving your kindest herb.

 

[Acolyte of Zinglon]

i dont see the advantage of that over storing it in a sealed glass container (like most fcers do i believe)
controlled humidity can be achieved through other means than humidors, i usually adjust the humidity of the herb i buy and then dry it out with a low heat source (a coffee mug warmer, i put my smaller nug container on top of it for a couple hours and its all dry) as i use it, since vaporizers work best with dry herb

uv light is really what you need to consider with storage, a dark cool place inside a sealed glass vessel is ideal, you could even toss a couple silica gel packets in there to help against oxidation

 

[partially veiled]

Silica gel is a serious desiccant...could be bad news re: herb if not used properly. Not saying it's a bad idea, just saying be careful...I wouldn't do it, personally. Just because I know how well desicants work...I wouldn't want to return home to a tiny, shriveled, remnant of a nuglet!

This is a great thread...I don't have much to add to it, but this is a great thread... I agree most whole heartedly with a viewpoint that I believe was best asserted here by VC:

For every study there is another trying to debunk it anyway.

The proof is in the lifestyle changes brought on by vaporizing. If (via vapor) we are missing out on a 'full' spectrum high then I'm happy to bypass whatever we are missing for the health benefits - proven or otherwise.

Right on brother. I've been using Cannabis for more than half of my life and I can honestly say that vapor has helped to change not just the amount I use, but the totality of my habits around it...and this has reflected directly back into my lifestyle and quality of life. Vapor has helped me to become much more active: to pursue activities I was already doing at much higher intensities, and to use new found energy (in my honest opinion this is due, at least in some part, to the lack of burden on my body from inhaling smoke--especially the disappearance of gnarly green, black and brown mucus from my lungs, throat, mouth and nose) to pursue totally new physical conquests.

I am not saying that vaporizing Cannabis helped me to get healthier, but I will attest that the LACK of smoke in my body has helped my body to relieve that particular mucus response and allowed some room to repair itself. In my experience since switching to vapor, the few times I have smoked have elicited a much more clear rejection response from my body. I can taste with more clarity and intensity the tars, the harshness and acridness of the smoke, presumably because my lungs aren't as accustomed to/coated in those "various substances" (I am too stoned to even pretend I want to be scientific about this, so take that ), and I can really feel the intensity of the heat of that same smoke. My bodies mucus response is simply much more noticeable.

I do not respond like that to vapor. My throat can get dry and irritated if I vape too much or for too long, but that's always remedied by water and sometimes tea (but I just happen to drink a lot of tea, because I loves it). Slight dryness or dehydration at worst. Smoke always seems to illicit an immediate mucus response in my body, and the heat with smoke creates a very different type of irritation...a scratchy irritation that often doesn't totally alleviate with water or hydration. These are obviously just MY observations, not scientific facts...but I'm pretty fuckin' convinced. I also don't really care if I'm missing some percentage of something by vaporizing instead of smoking...I remember what smoking feels like, I know what vaporizing feels like...it really does not feel like a compromise to me...and with the "health benefits" that I have perceived in my own life, lifestyle and quality of health...it's no challenge for me.

That being said...I agree with sticks when he says:

I have often wondered if vaporizing has the potential to cause harm in ways that smoking can't. For example, are we inhaling substances that get destroyed during smoking that could be harmful to us because they don't get destroyed in the vaporization process? Are we, by vaporizing, not inhaling some of the good quality of cannabis that get released when combusting? Bottom line, as people have pointed out here before, there just isn't enough data or enough freedom to do studies to get to the bottom of it right now. That leaves me having to believe my lungs first and foremost. I just hope we don't all discover 20 years from now that vaporizing as a technology did unintended harm, such as auto exhaust, etc.

It's a very valid concern and the real crime is that it is obviously very hard for this sort of thing to be studied in a rigorous, medical/health conscious, scientific fashion. It's simply not something that's of concern to the scientific establishment. I do hope that we're not being exposed to something potentially hazardous, whether related to the act of vaporizing itself or to the vaporizers we're using, I just hope something is not lurking there to be discovered... The VHW does seem pretty appealing in this regard, if I understand how it works. You only draw over heated glass, isn't that correct? If it's a vapor path that only moves through heated glass, going into a bowl that's glass and a bong/pipe that's glass, that at least intuitively feels pretty "clean". I'm not saying other vaporizers aren't clean, but I'll admit that sometimes sucking air over a glowing rod of ceramic does give me the heebie-jeebies. Regardless, until there is more information about this stuff I am going to side with my body and say that, for me at least (though it seems many here share these feelings), the benefits I feel in my life and my habits directly, and vastly, outweigh any perceived compromise. Even something as simple as the fact that my clothes, books, blankets, carpets...etc...don't constantly smell like smoke anymore...I just don't see how it's a compromise...anyway...

BTW, sticks, I'm glad to see you showing your teeth some in this thread. I was starting to wonder if you were like, the most laid back guy on the planet or what. Either way, you're good people. Haha, this is a really great thread indeed...


Edit: Right, I forgot. Spiderman, it doesn't seem fair to accuse CapnVape of "arguing semantics". There is a huge difference between saying that vaporizers release NONE of a certain component or SOME of that same component. Semantics, in the sense that you seem to be using this word, is basically all we have here. Language is more or less your only medium on a forum, so guard your words wisely.

 

[stonemonkey55]

I'm not saying other vaporizers aren't clean, but I'll admit that sometimes sucking air over a glowing rod of ceramic does give me the heebie-jeebies.

PV - good to see you back on the forum! You hit the nail on the head my friend. The more I thought about vaporizing and the more I got educated, I began to question more and more what exactly is safe and what isn't. The general consensus is that the ceramic heating element is not off gassing anything at the temp that we are turning it up to but we have no idea if anything else is happening. I'm over 90% sure (in my mind) that the they are perfectly safe but there is an added piece of confidence I have when vaping with the VHW. At the end of the day, unless we are using a cheapo chinese box vaporizer where the electronics is right next to the vapor path ready to off gas some lead or mercury, I can say with full confidence that vaporizing is a much better alternative to smoking.

Toke on!

 

[Progress]

Reply to original ?

My :
Maybe the stimulating effect of the toxins (amonia, benzine, cyanide, etc ?) in smoke (which causes the initial, brief head-rush you don't get from vapor) is a factor OR the oxygen cut-off that makes people think that smoking tobacco (a stimulant) is relaxing and helps one cope with stress rather than exacerbating it (stimulants can increase perceptions of stress) is a factor

Edit: Also the less visible exhale of vaporizing is likely a factor (I know that, when I feel like I took a really big dump and only see a little pebble in the bottom of the bowl, I feel disappointed even if I got everything out--good analogy? )

Sorry so short...gotta get bak 2 work (that's what I get for taking holiday)