Why would anyone not prefer vaporizing?
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djelimon
Well-Known Member
Answering the thread title
Some people are just old-fashioned. The coughing etc are part of the stone, and that's that.
I laid some vaping on this Zappa tribute band I met at a party one time, and they were convinced vaping works. "Never felt anything like that before" they said. Also impressed by the smaller amount of weed used.
BUT... they're still smoking. Because they know smoking.
Spiderman, quit trolling. The first of the studies you linked to said right in the headline:
"Decreased respiratory symptoms in cannabis users who vaporize"
Some people are just old-fashioned. The coughing etc are part of the stone, and that's that.
I laid some vaping on this Zappa tribute band I met at a party one time, and they were convinced vaping works. "Never felt anything like that before" they said. Also impressed by the smaller amount of weed used.
BUT... they're still smoking. Because they know smoking.
Spiderman, quit trolling. The first of the studies you linked to said right in the headline:
"Decreased respiratory symptoms in cannabis users who vaporize"
Wow, go to run a few errands and everyone is pissed off....guess an explanation wouldnt hurt.
As far as my age...good try, but nope.
And it may not have felt like ad nauseam to you, but it sure does to me. Maybe because it happened like this thread, trying to argue with 6 posters at once. Regardless....
As more than one of you noted (stickstones: "its an uphill battle") trying to convince the site titled "fuck combustion" to accept smoking is rather like standing in front of a firing squad. Iv made my points, ya'll have made yours, the cards are on the table. We can debate which is better all day, but in the end if the two both have their own inherent pros and cons, its easy to see exactly why some people prefer smoking (and why some prefer vaping).
For anyone who called me childish because I had no desire to spend my day arguing on the internet, when I had an apartment to clean and real work to get done...I've asked before for a PM system on this site so that discussions such as this can be taken there, but iirc its just not in the code right now. However, I do have an email address thats handily located just to the left of every post I make. Feel free to hit me there.
PS-i combust probably a gram a week, max.
"...the only way to get a full spectrum vapor inhalation is to extract and deliver rapidly from a small sample at a time..."
The reason I didnt enumerate the same arguments was because they are still there in the forums to read. Repeating something over and over just clogs the forums, and I have no desire to do that. He clearly has not read it, or had not when he posted at 2:40 today. That being said, its still there to find.stickstones said:
As far as my age...good try, but nope.
And it may not have felt like ad nauseam to you, but it sure does to me. Maybe because it happened like this thread, trying to argue with 6 posters at once. Regardless....
As more than one of you noted (stickstones: "its an uphill battle") trying to convince the site titled "fuck combustion" to accept smoking is rather like standing in front of a firing squad. Iv made my points, ya'll have made yours, the cards are on the table. We can debate which is better all day, but in the end if the two both have their own inherent pros and cons, its easy to see exactly why some people prefer smoking (and why some prefer vaping).
For anyone who called me childish because I had no desire to spend my day arguing on the internet, when I had an apartment to clean and real work to get done...I've asked before for a PM system on this site so that discussions such as this can be taken there, but iirc its just not in the code right now. However, I do have an email address thats handily located just to the left of every post I make. Feel free to hit me there.
PS-i combust probably a gram a week, max.
"...the only way to get a full spectrum vapor inhalation is to extract and deliver rapidly from a small sample at a time..."
Acolyte of Zinglon
Wizard-Ninja
really? this is the first time ive seen that and understood it in context.... is that what all that venturi effect jumble is about?
i think ill read over the vhw thread now, thre was a lot of good info i might be able to grasp it better reading it a second time
Well, you have to admit, this is some of the best discussion we've had in a while. Thanks, Spidey. 
Why would anyone not prefer vaporizing? Personal preference.
The higher temps of combustion do produce a different ratio of THC:CBD:CBN etc. And there's also the notion that one can feel their body's immune system reacting to the toxins in the smoke--which they may grow accustomed to. Eliminating those toxins is a big plus for me and personally I don't find the buzz from vaporizing to be lacking. That said, we all know that marijuana is one of the safest substances around, smoked or otherwise.
Why would anyone not prefer vaporizing? Personal preference.
The higher temps of combustion do produce a different ratio of THC:CBD:CBN etc. And there's also the notion that one can feel their body's immune system reacting to the toxins in the smoke--which they may grow accustomed to. Eliminating those toxins is a big plus for me and personally I don't find the buzz from vaporizing to be lacking. That said, we all know that marijuana is one of the safest substances around, smoked or otherwise.
stickstones
Vapor concierge
I read that in one of the links you posted and don't get it. What would the 'extract' be and how rapid of a delivery is needed? I would love to know if any of us are vaping in this manner. I'm all for trying to get the full buzz!Spiderman said:
Hennessy1414
Terrorist
Is there a difference between vaporizing full melt hash oil and smoking it? i mean if you smoke it and there is no ash left over...whats the diff.?
granted you use a hakko soldering iron or some sort of heat other than a lighter
granted you use a hakko soldering iron or some sort of heat other than a lighter
CapnVape
Well-Known Member
"All of the vaporized and combusted samples were also assayed forSpiderman said:
CBD and CBN. The amount of CBD delivered was unexpectedly somewhat
higher for both the vaporized and combusted samples."
Dude......... seriously did you even read the study you referenced. The quote above is from that study. It seems that they did indeed find CBD in BOTH the vaped and combusted samples.
Keep in mind, they used NIDA weed for this study which has only trace amounts of CBD yet they still were able to detect it in the vapor. That's why they were suprised to find so much CBD in the vapor and smoke samples.
I don't mean to kick a dead horse here( or beat up on Spiderman), but I don't like the idea of med-users(or anybody else) being turned off from vaping because of mis-information.
http://www.fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?id=50
Extract and rapid delivery system? Sounds like oil on a ti pad to me.
"Full melt hash oil" is a misnomer. Actually, unless its oil made specifically from hash, its not hash oil. And if its not "full melt" then its not oil.....or its oil thats got a lot of plant in it. Theoretically, you could vaporize oil with a hakko, but every time iv tried it runs through the screen on me. And if you ever make contact, chances are you're burning instead of vaping.
And the difference between smoking oil and vaping it? Combustion.
edit: just cause you decided to call me out once more....
Read the table on page 7 of the pdf, p 13 of the document, entitled Table 1.
It shows the percentage of the different cannabinoid's carried through....combusted CBD = .15%, vaped cbd = .091%. And once again, its not about one chemical (or two, etc).
Extract and rapid delivery system? Sounds like oil on a ti pad to me.
"Full melt hash oil" is a misnomer. Actually, unless its oil made specifically from hash, its not hash oil. And if its not "full melt" then its not oil.....or its oil thats got a lot of plant in it. Theoretically, you could vaporize oil with a hakko, but every time iv tried it runs through the screen on me. And if you ever make contact, chances are you're burning instead of vaping.
And the difference between smoking oil and vaping it? Combustion.
edit: just cause you decided to call me out once more....
Read the table on page 7 of the pdf, p 13 of the document, entitled Table 1.
It shows the percentage of the different cannabinoid's carried through....combusted CBD = .15%, vaped cbd = .091%. And once again, its not about one chemical (or two, etc).
Hennessy1414
Terrorist
well if you smoke it and there's no residue left over afterward...isnt that just quickly vaporizing it thenSpiderman said:
luchiano
Well-Known Member
I understand where spiderman is coming from BUT I think what needs to be remembered is smoking and vaporizing are to different things somewhat and require different treatments to feel the best effects.
When you vaporize you should first train your lungs to be able to take in a lot of air as well as hold it in and exhale slowly without feeling any discomfort. Using a powerlung(www.powerlung.com)) will help with this. Also peppermint will inhibit the need to want air when you are doing a long slow hit. You can take it around 10-30 minutes before you vape if you don't want the taste to effect whatver you are vaping.
Second, you want to cure your cannabis in a tobacco humidor with a temperature of approximately 70F daily. This helps breakdown the chemicals that vaporize at higher temperatures than thc so they will vaporize at lower temperatures which means you will get a thicker and full spectrum vapor as well as a nice moist hit that will make you taste the vapor more and feel good on the lungs.
Last, you want to grind your herb into a fine dust so most of the chemicals will get vaporized and not reabsorbed by the plant fibers. This is especially the case with the oils because plant fibers suck up oils and hold them quite well. The secret to preventing clogging is to use a little of some slightly grounded herb on your screen before you put the powder in to prevent the dust from getting in your mouth and when you do put the powder in the bowl only use enough that you can breathe in because if you don't the bowl will become clogged easily due to the oils and the fibers lumping together.
You want to grind your herb first before you put it into the tobacco humidor because once the herb becomes moist it's hard to grind it into a powder.
These methods also make smoking herb better but I think vaporizing is better because you are concentrating the vapor whereas smoking you are taking in burnt plant fibers, some minerals, and carcinogenic compounds.
When you vaporize you should first train your lungs to be able to take in a lot of air as well as hold it in and exhale slowly without feeling any discomfort. Using a powerlung(www.powerlung.com)) will help with this. Also peppermint will inhibit the need to want air when you are doing a long slow hit. You can take it around 10-30 minutes before you vape if you don't want the taste to effect whatver you are vaping.
Second, you want to cure your cannabis in a tobacco humidor with a temperature of approximately 70F daily. This helps breakdown the chemicals that vaporize at higher temperatures than thc so they will vaporize at lower temperatures which means you will get a thicker and full spectrum vapor as well as a nice moist hit that will make you taste the vapor more and feel good on the lungs.
Last, you want to grind your herb into a fine dust so most of the chemicals will get vaporized and not reabsorbed by the plant fibers. This is especially the case with the oils because plant fibers suck up oils and hold them quite well. The secret to preventing clogging is to use a little of some slightly grounded herb on your screen before you put the powder in to prevent the dust from getting in your mouth and when you do put the powder in the bowl only use enough that you can breathe in because if you don't the bowl will become clogged easily due to the oils and the fibers lumping together.
You want to grind your herb first before you put it into the tobacco humidor because once the herb becomes moist it's hard to grind it into a powder.
These methods also make smoking herb better but I think vaporizing is better because you are concentrating the vapor whereas smoking you are taking in burnt plant fibers, some minerals, and carcinogenic compounds.
luchiano
Well-Known Member
This isn't true if you want a concentrated vapor and has the full spectrum. The goal is to go slow but not inhaling the vapor, you want to hold it in your mouth.Spiderman said:
What this does is combine the vapors that are first vaporized which have most of the taste and the vapors which are more psychoactive.
You then want to release the vapor through the nose not the mouth because the nose is where most of the taste is sensed. You will also feel the hit faster this way being that the nerves of the nose are located at the base of the brain.
Hennessy1414
Terrorist
or a mason jarluchiano said:
i think we already went over that part http://www.fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?id=358
luchiano
Well-Known Member
No you want a tobacco humidor, preferably one that is plastic and doesn't impart taste into your herb, because you want to keep your herb spread out and not on top of each other because if you put them on top of each other in a pile it will take longer for the process to work and it won't be evenly done.Hennessy1414 said:or a mason jarluchiano said:
Hennessy1414
Terrorist
you might find different opinions around here and with me...whatever floats yer boatluchiano said:
CapnVape
Well-Known Member
What does this even mean? You agree with me? I'm confused.Spiderman said:
You originally state earlier in this thread " Turns out that vaporizers deliver a hit that manages to mostly grab the THC out of sample, without vaporizing the other various cannabinoids (CBD, CBN, etc) while smoking carried them all evenly. "
And now you're pointing out to me that CBD is present in vapor(in a slightly lower concentration) as if that's what you've been saying all along.
In my previous post, I was correcting what you had said earlier about there being NO other cannabinoids than THC. I was not saying that you will get the same amount of CBD smoking and vaping. In fact I have always believed that I was giving up a bit of CBD's when vaping(the study seems to confirm this).
I guess it just pisses me off that you keep changing your argument rather than suck it up like a man(or lady) and admitting you were wrong. Okay.......deep breath. Vaping is not for everybody, I wouldn't argue otherwise.
lets all get along now
you see the part where it says the word "mostly?"
Right on.
And so i will now finish by saying once again, and truly meaning it this time....im done in this thread. My points speak for themselves, at this point its mostly CapnVape trying to argue semantics.
CapnVape: You want me to admit that I was wrong? I'm not sure where I was wrong....I have provided citations for the claims I have made, whereas you have hinted at name-calling, and highlighted sections of my posts/out of context sections of the studies posted. But if it makes you feel better.....sure thing man, you win.
To the dude who said we should grind it to fine powder, then store it in humidors, and said that the full spectrum extract inhaled in a rapid dose was wrong...well, even a good chunk of FC disagrees with you...
Right on.
And so i will now finish by saying once again, and truly meaning it this time....im done in this thread. My points speak for themselves, at this point its mostly CapnVape trying to argue semantics.
CapnVape: You want me to admit that I was wrong? I'm not sure where I was wrong....I have provided citations for the claims I have made, whereas you have hinted at name-calling, and highlighted sections of my posts/out of context sections of the studies posted. But if it makes you feel better.....sure thing man, you win.
To the dude who said we should grind it to fine powder, then store it in humidors, and said that the full spectrum extract inhaled in a rapid dose was wrong...well, even a good chunk of FC disagrees with you...
Hennessy1414
Terrorist
yeah that gave me aSpiderman said:
chuckle as well...hey man dont let people contradicting you get in your head like that...the meaning goes beyond what were talking about...whatever it is were actually trying to prove....opinions!!?!?!?! well thats the thing..their just opinions
vaporizing FTW
brandonjacobs
Well-Known Member
Okay I just got back and read most of the posts on this thread and here are some of my thoughts.
Regardless of any studies or research that may state there is only a minimal difference in health concerns between the 2 methods, I have realized in my own experiences that vaporizing is hands down better for me than smoking was.
I used to smoke every day with either a bong, blunt, or bowl (only about a .5 gram at most) and I would cough up phlem throughout the day. Nothing crazy but it was there you know.
And I definately agree with the guy who mentioned the nasty black shit on you see on the stem to a bong. I always would look at it and say "Man that crap in in my lungs right now and it's accumulating the more that I smoke."
After vaporizing I did not have this problem with coughing or anything. So while Spiderman may say that's not factual or isn't sufficient evidence....isn't that enough? Isn't it enough that I no longer cough up shit anymore? Who needs to research anything further?
Not to mention the convenience that comes along with vaporizers such as being able to use it indoors, with no real odor, or coughing is really paying dividends. That's my opinion on vaporizing and yea I'm sure once in a while I'll be offered a bong hit or a joint but I know I won't be inhaling smoke regularly. I appreciate everyones input on this thread thanks guys.
Regardless of any studies or research that may state there is only a minimal difference in health concerns between the 2 methods, I have realized in my own experiences that vaporizing is hands down better for me than smoking was.
I used to smoke every day with either a bong, blunt, or bowl (only about a .5 gram at most) and I would cough up phlem throughout the day. Nothing crazy but it was there you know.
And I definately agree with the guy who mentioned the nasty black shit on you see on the stem to a bong. I always would look at it and say "Man that crap in in my lungs right now and it's accumulating the more that I smoke."
After vaporizing I did not have this problem with coughing or anything. So while Spiderman may say that's not factual or isn't sufficient evidence....isn't that enough? Isn't it enough that I no longer cough up shit anymore? Who needs to research anything further?
Not to mention the convenience that comes along with vaporizers such as being able to use it indoors, with no real odor, or coughing is really paying dividends. That's my opinion on vaporizing and yea I'm sure once in a while I'll be offered a bong hit or a joint but I know I won't be inhaling smoke regularly. I appreciate everyones input on this thread thanks guys.
max
Out to lunch
That's my feeling. My chronic cough is gone. My lung capacity is increased (I can run again). I can vape all night instead of trying to take a few hits off my pipe. I've also seen other people with lung issues say they're much more able to ingest via vapor. You can debate the scientific health differences between smoke and vapor until the end of time, but if you have sensitive or damaged lungs vapor is the way to go.
This reminds me of my honeymoon out in Jamaica. After years of vaping and just having the occasional blunt, I just couldn't smoke enough to get the head change that I wanted to. I would literally have to get a 20 oz soda and sit outside and try and smoke for 30 minutes. Every toke, I would have to drink some soda to cool the burning. The jamaicans would absolutely flip if they saw a vaporizer, I described it to many of the locals and they had no idea what I was talking about. Maybe I'll bring one the next time I'm out there, HIGHLY recommended! Respect!
vaporcloud
lurking kiwi
For every study there is another trying to debunk it anyway.
The proof is in the lifestyle changes brought on by vaporizing. If (via vapor) we are missing out on a 'full' spectrum high then I'm happy to bypass whatever we are missing for the health benefits - proven or otherwise.
On other forums I visit Spidermans oroginal post would have been termed a rark. i.e a post (or series of posts) intended to spark a reaction. I don't know of that was Spidys intention and it has been an interesting thread none the less ... but please ... on this forum there are people who are very passionate about vapping to the point where vaporising has been a life changing experience for many.
I occassionally smoke and don't enjoy the taste or the heat. Perhaps if I had a really expensive bong with all the diffusers and ice catchers and shit I could cool down the smoke enough to give me the same benefits I get from vapping. But then those pieces can cost more than a good entry level vap like a DBV, Warez or PD. I know what I would be reaching for!
The proof is in the lifestyle changes brought on by vaporizing. If (via vapor) we are missing out on a 'full' spectrum high then I'm happy to bypass whatever we are missing for the health benefits - proven or otherwise.
On other forums I visit Spidermans oroginal post would have been termed a rark. i.e a post (or series of posts) intended to spark a reaction. I don't know of that was Spidys intention and it has been an interesting thread none the less ... but please ... on this forum there are people who are very passionate about vapping to the point where vaporising has been a life changing experience for many.
I occassionally smoke and don't enjoy the taste or the heat. Perhaps if I had a really expensive bong with all the diffusers and ice catchers and shit I could cool down the smoke enough to give me the same benefits I get from vapping. But then those pieces can cost more than a good entry level vap like a DBV, Warez or PD. I know what I would be reaching for!
max
Out to lunch
From looking at the boiling points of cannabinoids, the only one likely to be excluded by vaporizing would be quercetin (actually a flavonol)-
Boiling point: 250*C / 482 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antioxidant, Antimutagenic, Antiviral, Antineoplastic
Others that would need a higher vaping temp than some would normally use-
a-terpineol (Terpenoid essential oil)
Boiling point: 217-218*C / 422.6-424.4 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Sedative, Antibiotic, AChE inhibitor, Antioxidant, Antimalarial
pulegone (Terpenoid essential oil)
Boiling point: 224*C / 435.2 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Memory booster?, AChE inhibitor, Sedative, Antipyretic
tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV)
Boiling point: < 220*C / <428 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Analgesic, Euphoriant
cannabichromene (CBC)
Boiling point: 220*C / 428 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antiinflammatory, Antibiotic, Antifungal
So, some medical users would be missing out with lower temp vapor, but boosting the temp should pretty much cover the bases without combustion.
Boiling point: 250*C / 482 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antioxidant, Antimutagenic, Antiviral, Antineoplastic
Others that would need a higher vaping temp than some would normally use-
a-terpineol (Terpenoid essential oil)
Boiling point: 217-218*C / 422.6-424.4 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Sedative, Antibiotic, AChE inhibitor, Antioxidant, Antimalarial
pulegone (Terpenoid essential oil)
Boiling point: 224*C / 435.2 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Memory booster?, AChE inhibitor, Sedative, Antipyretic
tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV)
Boiling point: < 220*C / <428 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Analgesic, Euphoriant
cannabichromene (CBC)
Boiling point: 220*C / 428 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antiinflammatory, Antibiotic, Antifungal
So, some medical users would be missing out with lower temp vapor, but boosting the temp should pretty much cover the bases without combustion.
Beezleb
Well-Known Member
Your right on the money Max. I know two people fighting cancer who prefer to vape at higher temperatures than what I do, still not hot enough to combust but hotter than me. They sacrifice the number of draws they get but they get more intense draws.
The difference in a notch or so is very signficant to each of them, they are not users of weed otherwise.
The difference in a notch or so is very signficant to each of them, they are not users of weed otherwise.
luchiano
Well-Known Member
I looked at the humidor thread and I didn't find anyone who did what I explained and I didn't find anyone who used a humidor for weed so how can you say most of FC doesn't agree with me just because of one post from someone who THOUGHT weed wouldn't be good for a tobacco humidor.Hennessy1414 said:yeah that gave me aSpiderman said:
hey man dont let people contradicting you get in your head like that...the meaning goes beyond what were talking about...whatever it is were actually trying to prove....opinions!!?!?!?! well thats the thing..their just opinions
vaporizing FTW
If you do a good thorough search on google you will find others who say the same thing I say except they are putting whole buds in and there are also very little of them.
But if this is what you want to believe keep doing it, I just wanted to show you a way that will make you vaporizing experience much better than it is now.
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