Why I Gave up Cannabis

[MoltenTiger]

I just stumbled upon this, which made me think of this thread

Exposure of the CB1 receptor to any agonist, including Δ9THC, can cause the receptor to eventually be removed from the cell membrane. This results in less activation of the receptor from Δ9THC, less signalling within the cell, and tolerance to the drug.

It seems evident that an absolute lack of tolerance could mean greater efficacy of cannabinoids.
However it could also mean dosage thresholds shrink, and as we are still learning about how this medicine helps us, that could make it harder to properly treat ailment.
Furthermore, if we already have a working tolerance/consumption pattern, it could make appropriately dosing after tolerance adaption much more simple.
Finally, and this is more relevant to my own usage,

My only major thought is that its therapeutic effects via CB1 (antiepilepsy, some cognitive protection, anxiety reduction, etc.) are subject to tolerance if taken daily; if you increase the dose to retain those benefits after tolerance you have the transient memory issues each day which can't be a good thing.

Could still have a role for anxiety reduction every now and then without any major side effects (the diastolic blood pressure one being the only major concern) but not as a daily anxiety reducer.


Kurtis Frank

So there you have it. In light of this thread title, I will be attempting to drastically change my user habits. I am definitely not giving up, but cutting back.
I have set a challenge for my usage many a time, never very successfully.

Currently I think n' days on = n' days off would be ideal, but I find it difficult to be this sober. Or something. I tend to chop up every chance I get. Which is not a healthy lifestyle.

Anyways, check this:

https://examine.com/supplements/marijuana/

That link is a wealth of information, this plant is beyond fascinating

 

[syrupy]

Currently I think n' days on = n' days off would be ideal, but I find it difficult to be this sober. Or something. I tend to chop up every chance I get. Which is not a healthy lifestyle.

I haven't had a lot of luck with n' days on and off. either It feels like the body and mind get uncomfortable with toggling back and forth. So what does work for me is a hard reset by t-break (24 days now). It's easier being sober for weeks than it is for days. I'm relying on my body to tell me when to begin again.

 

[MoltenTiger]

I haven't had a lot of luck with n' days on and off. either It feels like the body and mind get uncomfortable with toggling back and forth. So what does work for me is a hard reset by t-break (24 days now). It's easier being sober for weeks than it is for days. I'm relying on my body to tell me when to begin again.

Interesting. My reasoning was that if I spent a few days on (not necessarily constant use, but once per day), a few days off would be beneficial, but going day on day off probably would get uncomfortable, and limits the benefit of the break too. In fact with consistent high intake I'm sure fluctuating tolerance would make sure of this. I'll have to experiment a bit.

Honestly though, compared to withdrawals from tobacco and cannabis, I really am not finding my current break from just cannabis that noticeable or difficult. I haven't really felt any nausea, cravings or had any mood changes (some slight irritability), but I have had more REM sleep (or so it seems, definitely having vivid dreams and remembering them after waking up).

More than likely, once I get more herb I'll probably go back to daily usage but try and limit dosage. I'll also definitely have more tolerance breaks. Going non-stop really reduces the overall effect, and ramps usage way up to counter this, costing extra money and probably having some negative effect on health.

A month or so off here and there (well, relying on your body to tell you) is probably the best method.

 

[CarolKing]

Why dont you slowly cut down gradually over several days. Then just use cannabis at night for a while. There might be some days you could stop using if your tolerance wasn't so high.

If your cannabinoid system is saturated you won't get a good clean high. Using cannabis from morning until bed time will do that. I get an extremely high tolerance if I use too many concentrates all the time. I use concentrates just a couple times a week, if that. I prefer flowers anyway.

The body and mind works better if you gradually change things around with cannabis. I like using several different strains that helps with my tolerance levels.

I use cannabis now for pain and have used recreationally for a long time over the years.

I don't like the title of this thread either.

 

[AcidWolf]

Why dont you slowly cut down gradually over several days. Then just use cannabis at night for a while. There might be some days you could stop using if your tolerance wasn't so high.

If your cannabinoid system is saturated you won't get a good clean high. Using cannabis from morning until bed time will do that. I get an extremely high tolerance if I use too many concentrates all the time. I use concentrates just a couple times a week, if that. I prefer flowers anyway.

The body and mind works better if you gradually change things around with cannabis. I like using several different strains that helps with my tolerance levels.

I agree everything @CarolKing said above. Also exercise helps with flushing your system and maintenance of tolerance. Getting a workout in first thing in the morning gives that morning sesh a more clean and energizing feeling. In the afternoon go for a bike ride or run and boost those brain chemicals like endorphins, serotonin, dopamine, etc. Exercise will also improve sleep which makes that bedtime sesh more effective. Exercise helps with tolerance and cannabis helps your muscles to relax and recover. Low physical activity combined with high cannabis usage/consumption over time will most likely lead to more frequent feelings of weakness, fatigue, and higher tolerance when compared to a lifestyle with a more balanced physical activity level. Of course diet and nutrition are just as important.

 

[MoltenTiger]

Slowly adjusting intake rather than abrupt change, and mindful amounts of exercise and nutrition are beneficial for good health for sure, but the intent of this thread I believe is to clarify if having tolerance is detrimental for health benefit by introduced cannabinoid interaction. Which, depending on particular medical reasoning is true.
It's probably not true that someone who has never used it has better efficacy of cannabis, in fact this is documented as uncertain.
Any use daily (at least once per day, not necessarily all day, one single use within 24 hours) is potentially bad for transient memory, anxiety and blood pressure. And probably a range of other things.
Tolerance mostly effects CB1 receptors, literally by removing them from cell membrane.
As a recreational user, the title of this thread is not really that bad a choice. However I enjoy the effect enough, so I personally choose not to give it up. (As I'm sure most here will agree).
I think it reduces stress, which I connatate with better health. But realistically speaking, frequent use is not good for the system no matter how much you counteract with food, exercise or sleep.
But, if you get other health benefits from it (epilepsy, Alzheimer's, pain relief), then the net result may still favour heavy usage, but this will be for the vast minority of users (given its recreational abundance).
And it's likely (in some cases) that infrequent use will offer the same benefit at less of a toll on the system.
It's very much a personal medicine, which is possibly why it's taking so long to become a globally legitimate one.

 

[CarolKing]

If you have a high tolerance level you won't get a medical buzz, that's been my experience. Some folks aren't bothered by a high tolerences. You can get a tokerence using for medical as well as recreational. Sometimes micro dosing works. Sometimes too much of a good thing doesn't work as intended. Different vaporizers help too in my case, I guess I'm confused as to the thread? Sorry if I'm astray.

The original question, I think the jury is still out. The Feds need to free up funds for more research. There have been many positive studies but there needs to be more. Rick Simpson says RSO cured his cancer. It may have.

People are using cannabis for MS, HIV, muscle spasms, eating disorders, seizures, plus many more illnesses the list its getting longer all the time. Now we are hearing PTSD, suicides, opioid addiction and Alzheimer's. It's probably more anecdotal that actual scientific results.

Exercise and eating right is so important. Plus it always makes me feel better. It's not always easy to follow through but when we do we do notice mentally as well as physically.

 

[KimDracula]

Good to know about this just in case. Hope things get better quickly, steama.

 

[Baron23]

I'm a huge supporter of medicinal cannabis; I've spoken with several people who have cured their terminal illness (in some cases in a matter of days) using nothing but potent cannabis extract - these people I've talked with shop at my small town dispensary.
In all of these cases the people who were able to cure their disease never previously used cannabis.
This has led my to form a (perhaps paranoid) theory that cannabis should be highly respected and only used in life or death situations.
I originally started using cannabis after an accident that left me with a brain hemorrhage and spinal damage; but after speaking with people who have successfully cured their terminal illness (having zero tolerance to CBD and THC), I ask myself the question: could it be that the healing effects of cannabis are most effective, if effective at all, when the patient/pupil has never before activated their receptors?
Chronic pain is a real life nightmare, but I'm still very healthy so I made the choice to use it if I ever need it.
Am I paranoid, or could there be some concrete substance to my theory?

Paranoid and way, way, way too much worrying.

 

[Krazy]

Did I say Cannabis erases memories?

If you need to ask....

 

[herbivore21]

I ask myself the question: could it be that the healing effects of cannabis are most effective, if effective at all, when the patient/pupil has never before activated their receptors?

I can actually answer this from the scholarly literature. I was reading a study reviewing research into various aspects of cannabis last week by former advisor to the UK government Dr. David Nutt (title escapes me right now). In that article, they highlighted that downregulation (reduction in the number of receptors) of CB1 receptors occurs with very frequent use of cannabis, but that this downregulation is fully reversed within 6 weeks of cessation, no matter how long term the user was. In other words, if you need to use CB1 agonist (ie: THC) containing cannabis as medicine and you are already a regular user, you may require more cannabis to get the medical effects you require. If you took a t-break for ~6 weeks, you'd expect your body to return to its baseline response.

 

[biohacker]

Doin' great no more problems to date! Mad love to the ganja!

Did you take the 90 day break? What has changed?

 

[Baron23]

I can actually answer this from the scholarly literature. I was reading a study reviewing research into various aspects of cannabis last week by former advisor to the UK government Dr. David Nutt (title escapes me right now). In that article, they highlighted that downregulation (reduction in the number of receptors) of CB1 receptors occurs with very frequent use of cannabis, but that this downregulation is fully reversed within 6 weeks of cessation, no matter how long term the user was. In other words, if you need to use CB1 agonist (ie: THC) containing cannabis as medicine and you are already a regular user, you may require more cannabis to get the medical effects you require. If you took a t-break for ~6 weeks, you'd expect your body to return to its baseline response.

I can't find it but I thought I saw a scholarly article that indicated full restoral of receptors in 4 weeks. But I'm splitting hairs here....a good t-break from time to time would be useful to many of us...well, me in particular. But to make it 4-6 weeks I would have to go on pharmas again. Not ready for that yet. I have take 3-4 day t-breaks but I don't think that's long enough to do anything significant but I may well be wrong on that. I only have my subjective experiences to guide me on that and that's not very valid IMO.

 

[herbivore21]

I can't find it but I thought I saw a scholarly article that indicated full restoral of receptors in 4 weeks. But I'm splitting hairs here..

That is true, and I have seen it characterized as 4-6 weeks too believe it or not. I always go with the longest period to be sure when I quote these figures. We have to understand that these are averages of large data samples (many different people) and YMMV individually.

But to make it 4-6 weeks I would have to go on pharmas again.

You and me both my friend! Thankfully, we don't need to do that. I find that if my tolerance is ever too high to not allow me to get the medical effects I need for a given symptom, then I can increase the dose slightly and get the relief I need. Otherwise, for me, short tolerance breaks seem to make a big difference quickly. Even a day or two can make quite the difference. There's a big gap between completely resetting a tolerance and lowering it to the point that you can medicate effectively

 

[Little Bill]

Did you take the 90 day break? What has changed?

90 day break did you say? @biohacker I am 74 and don't even buy green bananas.

 

[howie105]

I can't find it but I thought I saw a scholarly article that indicated full restoral of receptors in 4 weeks. But I'm splitting hairs here....a good t-break from time to time would be useful to many of us...well, me in particular. But to make it 4-6 weeks I would have to go on pharmas again. Not ready for that yet. I have take 3-4 day t-breaks but I don't think that's long enough to do anything significant but I may well be wrong on that. I only have my subjective experiences to guide me on that and that's not very valid IMO.

Hey Baron23. It would seem that "subjective experiences" are perfectly fine if the individual is happy with the consumption path they are on. Its hard to factor in all the individual variables (mental and physical) we all have going on.

 

[Baron23]

90 day break did you say? @biohacker I am 74 and don't even buy green bananas.

hehehehe.....bit behind you at 64 but I know what you mean. Funny.....but true. LOL

 

[psychonaut]

Not sure on the receptors, but if the thc test strips are any indication on receptors, I was still pissing hot 7 weeks later. I am a medical patient with moderate daily use. When I finally did get back on my meds, I wasn't blown away by the effects, but I was also taking half sized doses for the first two weeks. Compared to how it was after a 10 year break, it was a completely different experience. I am guessing my brain still recognized the effects. After not consuming for 10 years, it was very psychadelic and intense (WiFi OG).

 

[Baron23]

ut if the thc test strips are any indication on receptors, I was still pissing hot 7 weeks later.

Yes, but sadly they are not. THC metabolites are absorbed into body fat and released over time. Sometimes this can be 4 weeks and sometimes shorter or longer depending on body fat and metabolism and the amount/frequency of use.

I don't think this is the same mechanism or process that we are speaking of with regard to brain receptors but I am more than willing to be corrected on this.

Cheers

 

[biohacker]

What Baron23 said, I too don't think they are related. I'm in the same boat, still pissing hot after 5 weeks, and my wife is pissing clean, after 3-4 weeks but that second line isn't very dark.

I'm pretty sure i'm BLOWN AWAY with effects after 2 weeks off....but I think it takes a while for hormones to stabilize and melatonin to kick back to its normal function, as my sleep is finally kicking some serious ass, and resulting in a much greater quality of day for me. Still sweating like a bitch a night though, as my body tries to cleanse itself.

I'll have to go back to the start and read this thread.

I can't seem to find any banana's that AREN'T green! lol They turn yellow within a couple of days at home though. Everything is picked so unripe...just bought kiwi's from costco and they are rock hard!

 

[Robindean]

Something I need to touch on here. And I realize this is a old thread, and I do not think its worth making a new thread when this is techincally a active thread that just has not been dusted off.

When my wife says I vape to much, I tell her " but it can cure cancer!" .

She then says " but you don't have cancer".

I then say "exactly".

Now, I am actually thinking this is just because I was at this church and they mostly knew I was a medical user (didnt hide it)
But almost everyone at that place, was sick, diseased, had been or still battling or it had come back (Yes, I left this place)
Only one person there was a cannabis user other then me, and even she had cancer and it was coming back. Tbh I think there was
something fishy about this place, but on to another point.
My aunt's husband is a cannabis user, she hates him for it, makes it known she is against it. But I found out even he has it. Granted these are two people I know of who are users who had, or has it, or is getting it. Otherwise cannabis users I know of aren't cancer ridden, and those with are on cannabis because they have it.
Point is, then....does it really? Two people I know in real life dealing with this. I am also happy to just leave it at that and agree it cures cancer and helps those with it. If it helps those with it, then why isn't it curing it? I may need to re learn Rick Simpson, as I am a heavy user of RSO. (When permitted)