Why aren't my edibles working??

[Sgt_Steeze]

Hi Everyone,


So I thought id jump on here to see if anyone has any input for me that might help me figure out why I'm wasting so much money making edibles that don't work.





I'm trying to make gummies using shatter. I'm making roughly 150 gummies using 2 grams of shatter, from what i've been told, these 10/11mg gummies should be potent enough for me to feel it when eating a few, but so far my best batch made me feel slightly high for maybe 20 minutes over an hour and a half after i had eaten about 20 gummies. I have also given the gummies to other people to try them and again, even after eaten handfuls of them, they aren't feeling the effects.





So far I have tried 3 batches:





Batch 1:


- Decarbed Shatter in oven at roughly 130c in a pyrex bowl until the bubbles stopped.


- Add coconut oil to pyrex bowl (this coconut oil was still a solid when added but the heat of the bowl melted it) and combined, then added this whole mixture to a double boiler and added lecithin, a few drops of watermelon flavouring, some agave, and stirred.


- Add the gelatine mixture which i had bloomed earlier. (this contained mango gelatine and unflavoured gelatine powder as well as some citric acid powder, agave, and water and had been left to bloom for 20 mins)


- Stir this whole mixture together in the double boiler for 10 minutes before pouring into molds


- Leave molds to harden for about 30 mins before moving to fridge and leaving over night.


- Remove gummies from molds and return to fridge to continue to harden.


- Eat gummies





Result: No Effect


Proposed issue from experienced friend: Didn't decarb shatter properly, bubbles I was watching were not the right kind of bubbles.





Batch 2:


Almost the same as batch 1 except I ended up leaving the shatter in the oven for 40 minutes as this time I was watching for the bigger bubbles to start to form.





Result: Some effect after eating large numbers of gummies.


Proposed issue from experienced friend: Decarbed for far too long, killed the thc.





Batch 3:


Another friend said I should get a small square container and angle it in the oven so that the shatter pools in the corner, I used that this time to decarb the THC and upon the advice from my experienced friend mentioned above, I ignored the bubbles all together and just put it in the oven at 140 for 15 minutes before adding the coconut oil etc.





Result: No effect


My proposed issue: The double boiler is getting too hot and killing the thc because I'm leaving it in there for 12 minutes whilst I mix everything else in.


My friend's proposed issue: I need to pre-melt the coconut oil so that it mixes properly with the liquid shatter.



Batch 4


Reduced the temperature and decarbed at 105c (220f) for roughly 35 minutes when the big bubbles stopped and the whole reaction seemed to slow down a lot.
Added the melted coconut oil (some of the shatter got stuck to the glass and I couldn't get it out but it most of it was added to the coconut oil
Added lecithin and mixed but didn't add it to the final mixture until the last minute before I removed the double boiler from the heat.

Still very minimal effects.


Any advice would be greatly appreciated here, I'm running out of money





Thanks

 

[Bologna]

Honestly, I dunno what to tell you cuz I've never tried making eddies with shatter before... But I do know that not all edibles are created equal for whatever the reasons and that I usually require quite a bit more than say 30mg to get where I want or expect to be... one reason, I assume, is that I'm already a somewhat heavy flower and concentrate consumer, which no doubt leads to high tolerance.... one other thing to consider, other than the amount you consume, is the way you consume... are you consuming these with lotsa fat, as that's always recommended, and I too have found it to make a big difference, as well as consuming on an empty stomach...

Incidentally, I think I read somewhere that THC is supposedly something like 7 times more potent when metabolized thru the liver compared to being delivered to the blood/brain thru the lungs....? Something like that.... Crazy.

 

[Sgt_Steeze]

Honestly, I dunno what to tell you cuz I've never tried making eddies with shatter before... But I do know that not all edibles are created equal for whatever the reasons and that I usually require quite a bit more than say 30mg to get where I want or expect to be... one reason, I assume, is that I'm already a somewhat heavy flower and concentrate consumer, which no doubt leads to high tolerance.... one other thing to consider, other than the amount you consume, is the way you consume... are you consuming these with lotsa fat, as that's always recommended, and I too have found it to make a big difference, as well as consuming on an empty stomach...

Incidentally, I think I read somewhere that THC is supposedly something like 7 times more potent when metabolized thru the liver compared to being delivered to the blood/brain thru the lungs....? Something like that.... Crazy.

Yeah I've tried on a full stomach, empty stomach, given them to friends, tried multiple different ways of decarbing, adding things at different times, changing quantities of lecithin, adding and removing citric acid powder, etc etc. but nothing seems to be making these damn gummies stronger... by the time I actually figure it out i'm gonna need all the gummies at once just to calm me down again haha

 

[bulllee]

Yeah I've tried on a full stomach, empty stomach, given them to friends, tried multiple different ways of decarbing, adding things at different times, changing quantities of lecithin, adding and removing citric acid powder, etc etc. but nothing seems to be making these damn gummies stronger... by the time I actually figure it out i'm gonna need all the gummies at once just to calm me down again haha

Do you make any other type's of edibles , and do you have the same issues ? When decarbing I always set a timer for 25 minutes, and I check out the bubbles throughout the decarb . I normally decarb at 115 c for anywhere from 20 minutes to 50 minutes depending on types of concentrates. Some concentrates take longer to decarb. I have had mixed results with gummies, any other edibles , cookies, brownies , etc. I haven't had any issues with. I always use shatter for my tinctures using MCT oil and never had problems. Where do you get your concentrates ? If you can get some RSO ( Rick Simpson Oil ) at your dispensary it makes great edibles ! And the best thing is you don't need to decarb it at all , just add . Makes dosing a breeze, and you get a great full spectrum experience out of it .

 

[Cheebsy]

I'm suspicious of your decarb...

I decarb rosin (never tried this with shatter) in an oil bath rather than the oven. I use a small pyrex beaker and a glass rod to stir occasionally. At the start the bubbles are large and energetic, then you get smaller bubbles, it's only when the smaller bubbles slow down a lot that I consider the rosin decarbed but I use mine for sleep so you might not want to go is far.

By memory, so this might be inaccurate, the larger bubbles are mostly moisture, the smaller bubbles are the co2 being released in the decarb reaction.

 

[Sgt_Steeze]

Do you make any other type's of edibles , and do you have the same issues ? When decarbing I always set a timer for 25 minutes, and I check out the bubbles throughout the decarb . I normally decarb at 115 c for anywhere from 20 minutes to 50 minutes depending on types of concentrates. Some concentrates take longer to decarb. I have had mixed results with gummies, any other edibles , cookies, brownies , etc. I haven't had any issues with. I always use shatter for my tinctures using MCT oil and never had problems. Where do you get your concentrates ? If you can get some RSO ( Rick Simpson Oil ) at your dispensary it makes great edibles ! And the best thing is you don't need to decarb it at all , just add . Makes dosing a breeze, and you get a great full spectrum experience out of it .

Unfortunately I can't get RSO where I live, the Shatter I get is from someone I have known for a very long time and I know other people have bought it from them and had good results both using it in a rig and also in edibles. I can't help but feel that there is something wrong with the gummies that is preventing the THC from being released, but I'm no chemist.

 

[Sgt_Steeze]

I'm suspicious of your decarb...

I decarb rosin (never tried this with shatter) in an oil bath rather than the oven. I use a small pyrex beaker and a glass rod to stir occasionally. At the start the bubbles are large and energetic, then you get smaller bubbles, it's only when the smaller bubbles slow down a lot that I consider the rosin decarbed but I use mine for sleep so you might not want to go is far.

By memory, so this might be inaccurate, the larger bubbles are mostly moisture, the smaller bubbles are the co2 being released in the decarb reaction.

What do you mean by an oil bath?

Thanks

 

[Bologna]

Also, if you don't have access to RSO or it's a little too, shall we say "zesty" for your palate (), many dispensaries commonly sell what are usually labeled as "Darts". Often the dreaded "Distillate", but not always, as I've seen live resin ones available and they are almost always pre-decarbed... they are a very easy effective way to make your own edibles:

(this post was meant for anyone, @Sgt_Steeze, as I see you don't have access to dispensaries....)

 

[Cheebsy]

What do you mean by an oil bath?

Thanks

Just a saucepan with enough oil in it to go high enough up the beaker to heat all the concentrate but not so much that it makes the beaker float. Heat the oil to 110c to 120c, and keep it at around that temp, watch the beaker and stir towards the end of the process as bubbles start to slow down. Stirring will liven things up again.

Good luck and I hope this helps!

 

[Sgt_Steeze]

Thanks, I'll have to get some new equipment and try this, I don't have beakers or a suitable thermometer at the moment.

 

[invertedisdead]

It's because you're trying to emulsify an oil into a recipe which is basically all water.

I used to be very passionate about making gummies, ultimately I learned that gummies are a pretty poor candidate for edibles. Most likely you're not experiencing the desired effect because all of the active ingredients are probably in the other remaining gummies, and the ones you ate probably didn't have anything. This is a tricky emulsion to properly achieve at home to actually establish consistent dosing. It often gives the illusion of looking properly emulsified, but if you had the equipment to look at it more analytically you'd see that's rarely the case. Lecithin is an emuslfier, but it's not really a magic bullet either, especially in a recipe that is almost entirely an oil-in-water emulsion rather than a water-in-oil. It's also very possible your decarb was incomplete, but I would wager the inconsistent dosing being the main issue, as that's extremely common with homemade gummies.

I'd suggest beginners with limited equipment decarb around 300F in the oven in a sealed mason jar with the lid tightened and then backed off just enough (1/4 turn or so) to not induce too much pressure inside the container.

Remember the set temperature of the oven isn't really going to be the temperature inside your decarb vessel, especially when the heat has to transfer through insulating glass. Think about baking a chicken, at 350F it takes over an hour for that internal temperature to reach ~165F

For an oven decarb I also suggest putting a pan or skillet under the jar to sustain the heat from the bottom of the vessel, this will improve the conduction and assist in the decarb. Going along with @Cheebsy recommendations you could even do a water bath inside the oven like making souffle, this helps the heat transfer to the jar as well.

Ultimately I'd suggest trying capsules for a more consistent experience since its an entirely oil based emulsion.

 

[Sgt_Steeze]

It's because you're trying to emulsify an oil into a recipe which is basically all water.

I used to be very passionate about making gummies, ultimately I learned that gummies are a pretty poor candidate for edibles. Most likely you're not experiencing the desired effect because all of the active ingredients are probably in the other remaining gummies, and the ones you ate probably didn't have anything. This is a tricky emulsion to properly achieve at home to actually establish consistent dosing. It often gives the illusion of looking properly emulsified, but if you had the equipment to look at it more analytically you'd see that's rarely the case. Lecithin is an emuslfier, but it's not really a magic bullet either, especially in a recipe that is almost entirely an oil-in-water emulsion rather than a water-in-oil. It's also very possible your decarb was incomplete, but I would wager the inconsistent dosing being the main issue, as that's extremely common with homemade gummies.

I'd suggest beginners with limited equipment decarb around 300F in the oven in a sealed mason jar with the lid tightened and then backed off just enough (1/4 turn or so) to not induce too much pressure inside the container.

Remember the set temperature of the oven isn't really going to be the temperature inside your decarb vessel, especially when the heat has to transfer through insulating glass. Think about baking a chicken, at 350F it takes over an hour for that internal temperature to reach ~165F

For an oven decarb I also suggest putting a pan or skillet under the jar to sustain the heat from the bottom of the vessel, this will improve the conduction and assist in the decarb. Going along with @Cheebsy recommendations you could even do a water bath inside the oven like making souffle, this helps the heat transfer to the jar as well.

Ultimately I'd suggest trying capsules for a more consistent experience since its an entirely oil based emulsion.

Thanks for the detailed response!
I know what you're saying about the the emulsion difficulties, however between my friends and I, we have now eaten 700 of these gummies, with a total of 8 grams of shatter in them and we haven't felt much more than a very slight high that lasted for a few minutes or a slight sustained high after smoking within an hour of ingesting. I feel like there MUST be some THC in all of those gummies somewhere, not sure if something is preventing it from being absorbed by the body.
I have made gummies before using alcoholic tincture but I really wanted to make something that was less expensive and more potent which is what I expected from using shatter.

I went out and bought a small beaker and a probe thermometer today to allow me to do an oil or water bath decarb tomorrow and I think I might use that to make some chocolate bars to see if that has any potency (as I know chocolate is great for making edibles), if that works then I know the decarb was succesful and that the gummy component is my issue.

Now to do loads of research on chocolate edibles and see what happens...
Wish me luck!

 

[cannasoor]

OK, this is a long shot, especially since you've tried them with friends (plural) to no better effect. But …

I had minimal luck with edibles and eventually read internet lore (so take with a lump of salt) that having my gall bladder removed may have made it very difficult for me to process edibles. It makes some "folklore sense", as gall bladder has to do with bile infusion, and bile is associated with oil/fat processing. (But still not real science by any means … unless someone who knows can point to some.)

However, it's unlikely your friends would have the same problem (unless they are your gall bladder removal support group ). So probably it's emulsification issues, like @invertedisdead said (I have no expertise in this area, either, though).

 

[Sgt_Steeze]

OK, this is a long shot, especially since you've tried them with friends (plural) to no better effect. But …

I had minimal luck with edibles and eventually read internet lore (so take with a lump of salt) that having my gall bladder removed may have made it very difficult for me to process edibles. It makes some "folklore sense", as gall bladder has to do with bile infusion, and bile is associated with oil/fat processing. (But still not real science by any means … unless someone who knows can point to some.)

However, it's unlikely your friends would have the same problem (unless they are your gall bladder removal support group ). So probably it's emulsification issues, like @invertedisdead said (I have no expertise in this area, either, though).

Haha yeah my first thought was that my tolerance was just too high now which is why i had so many other people try them, maybe 30 other people have tried them now with no or little effect...

 

[cannasoor]

… maybe 30 other people have tried them now with no or little effect...

Yeah, that's a pretty big gall bladder support group .

[geez, I don't think I even know 30 people … ]

 

[invertedisdead]

I went out and bought a small beaker and a probe thermometer today to allow me to do an oil or water bath decarb tomorrow and I think I might use that to make some chocolate bars to see if that has any potency (as I know chocolate is great for making edibles), if that works then I know the decarb was succesful and that the gummy component is my issue.

That's a good approach!

Are you using soy or sunflower lecithin? Liquid or powder?

 

[Sgt_Steeze]

That's a good approach!

Are you using soy or sunflower lecithin? Liquid or powder?

I'm a problem solver at heart!

I'm currently using powdered sunflower lecithin as my initial research said that was a good idea...

Part of me thinks that although the lecithin is supposed to help absorb the thc into the body, maybe it's bonding to the water in the gelatine because i'm mixing them too soon? I have no idea on the chemistry behind it though.

 

[bhasma]

I rarely make edibles, and decarboxylation should be more efficient, but I'm not sure that it's necessary for an effect. I have taken strong bhang that was never heated and been left tripping. And I've swallowed capsules of hash oil that left me on the floor.

 

[bhasma]

The effects of simple (unheated) bhang are highly variable, and I had thought that potency was related to the quality of the weed, but it could be due to the natural decarboxylation that occurs with ageing. And if the hash oil was separated by distillation, then it will have been heated in the process.