El Peligroso
Well-Known Member
got my balls busted for asking a question in another thread so I’m here to ask.
Which vapes have been verified to have a clean airpath from independent breakdowns (besides dynavap and Sb vapes)?
- Thread starter El Peligroso
- Start date
Abysmal Vapor
Supersniffer 2000 - robot fart detection device
Have you seen a S&B vaporizer disassembled ? I would never call that clean airpath with all the wires and plastic around. To me even dynavap has exposed o-rings near the vaporpath,lol. Also Stolz and Bickel has their facility certified for medical production ,but most of their devices dont have it. I think only their MEDIC versions do,but i doubt the build is that much different,just medical grade plastics and wires.On the other hand Vaponic has never been medically certified or vapocane or most of those glass vapes,but they have much cleaner airpath and vapopath than most.
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DaVapeGuy
Well-Known Member
Abysmal Vapor
Supersniffer 2000 - robot fart detection device
Well i dont consider silicone pure or any other synthetic rubber pure. For me pure path is composed of some metals ,various types of glass and ceramics ,because they have less potential to offgas something harmful.
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Right?? O-rings are great when they are outside the vapor pathway, but hot air over any silicone ruins the experience for me... Wood can be good but it is not a pure neutral substance like glass or metal (and not all metals are equal either nor ceramics) meanwhile I think a really good plastic like delrin can be perfectly fine in some instances... I think most any well designed stem-based vape can have one of the purest vapor pathways, you can even use paper tubes now! However purest air path can be a trickier thing when electronics are involved in any portable and many desktops... I think Alan's logs and Cloud Connoisseur Halo and Atlas are some of the top tier ultimate purity that is easier to verify (flowerpot etc too) plus I feel that way about Lamart Tetra and Tinymight2 and Firewood7/8 personally, oh and obviously Toad Nomad would be too!
Curious Gorilla
Sounds like something smells purple.
The wires and plastic are not the only problem. I very much doubt Storz and bickel had their vaunted medical test run on even a 3 year old machine that had had heavy use, let alone a 10 year old machine.
Aluminium breaks down over time and developes a white dusty compound on the surface. This is Aluminium oxide. You can see it on car engines.
Aluminium oxide does not cause the same health issues raw aluminium does for humans, as it is "considered" inert.
However, aluminium oxide is one of the hardest substances on earth, it is used as an industrial abrasive. Breathing these small abrasive particles over years could cause lesions on the lungs ( I know someone this has happened to).
Storz and Bickel are covered, 'cause they will claim it has a life span. Any goods made only need to function for 5 years for their designed purpous according to trading and industry standards.
Refering to the Volcano, it appears impossible to properly clean inside the little holes in the heater core, if you could, repeated cleaning over time can remove the oxide layer, and any acidic compound can react with aluminium over time. I do not own one so if i am wrong about this please let me know.
The most disgusting thing is that many uk cannabis clinics are actively pushing this devise as medicaly safe, when they have zero knowledge of material properties or safety.
It is unlikely to be an issue unless you were a very heavy frequent user on high dosages, but personaly i avoid aluminium in my airpath like the plague. I have enough other issues already.
Ceramics made of aluminium oxide do not form this surface powder in the same way. They are bonded at increadibly high temperatures.
As AbysmalVapor and others point out, any of the full glass path options are going to be clean, and there are injection head baller vapes made of glass, ceramic and titanium. I personly avoid stainless steel, and would consider brass unnecassary madness.
The coil is not really in the air path but If you are sensitive to nickel and worried about the metal of the coil itself go for a none plated version that is mild steel, it might rust a little but is non toxic. You could make mild steel terp pearls, it would be safe but it would taste like shit.
Coil and pid systems seem to be the heaviest hitters too, and despite the general consensus that they are elite and expensive, you can set yourself up for less than £200 pounds if you look around.
You wont have to climb the vape ladder if you go straight for a baller head, you will float to the top on a cloud of vapour.
Unless you are a heavy user or sensitive to specific materials, I think issues with micro particles from vapes are generaly unlikely.
There are many other sources.
Remember that the air we breath is whats going into our vapourisers, so vaping by a busy roadside is likely to give you more pollutants, (or is that breathing by a roadside?) than normal vape use. And microparticles are a favourite of the cosmetic industry of late.
And with the new rubbish petrol, we get even more added zylene, toluene and our old favourite benzene.
FuckCombustion engines..... but i like my cars, and EV cars for everyone is an unachievable joke.
Mmmmmmmm high octane petrol yumyumyum. I loved my 22 year old 2.5 LITRE V6, best car i ever owned. A V6 engine is the car equivalent of a baller head vape.
cO2 feeds our favourite plant....
Aluminium breaks down over time and developes a white dusty compound on the surface. This is Aluminium oxide. You can see it on car engines.
Aluminium oxide does not cause the same health issues raw aluminium does for humans, as it is "considered" inert.
However, aluminium oxide is one of the hardest substances on earth, it is used as an industrial abrasive. Breathing these small abrasive particles over years could cause lesions on the lungs ( I know someone this has happened to).
Storz and Bickel are covered, 'cause they will claim it has a life span. Any goods made only need to function for 5 years for their designed purpous according to trading and industry standards.
Refering to the Volcano, it appears impossible to properly clean inside the little holes in the heater core, if you could, repeated cleaning over time can remove the oxide layer, and any acidic compound can react with aluminium over time. I do not own one so if i am wrong about this please let me know.
The most disgusting thing is that many uk cannabis clinics are actively pushing this devise as medicaly safe, when they have zero knowledge of material properties or safety.
It is unlikely to be an issue unless you were a very heavy frequent user on high dosages, but personaly i avoid aluminium in my airpath like the plague. I have enough other issues already.
Ceramics made of aluminium oxide do not form this surface powder in the same way. They are bonded at increadibly high temperatures.
As AbysmalVapor and others point out, any of the full glass path options are going to be clean, and there are injection head baller vapes made of glass, ceramic and titanium. I personly avoid stainless steel, and would consider brass unnecassary madness.
The coil is not really in the air path but If you are sensitive to nickel and worried about the metal of the coil itself go for a none plated version that is mild steel, it might rust a little but is non toxic. You could make mild steel terp pearls, it would be safe but it would taste like shit.
Coil and pid systems seem to be the heaviest hitters too, and despite the general consensus that they are elite and expensive, you can set yourself up for less than £200 pounds if you look around.
You wont have to climb the vape ladder if you go straight for a baller head, you will float to the top on a cloud of vapour.
Unless you are a heavy user or sensitive to specific materials, I think issues with micro particles from vapes are generaly unlikely.
There are many other sources.
Remember that the air we breath is whats going into our vapourisers, so vaping by a busy roadside is likely to give you more pollutants, (or is that breathing by a roadside?) than normal vape use. And microparticles are a favourite of the cosmetic industry of late.
And with the new rubbish petrol, we get even more added zylene, toluene and our old favourite benzene.
FuckCombustion engines..... but i like my cars, and EV cars for everyone is an unachievable joke.
Mmmmmmmm high octane petrol yumyumyum. I loved my 22 year old 2.5 LITRE V6, best car i ever owned. A V6 engine is the car equivalent of a baller head vape.
cO2 feeds our favourite plant....
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El Peligroso
Well-Known Member
That’s very helpful and I didn’t know about the Mighty’s 5 year limit for medical certification. But is it safe to assume you are getting a clean airpath for the first 5 years with the mighty as long as you treat it properly (cleaning only as directed etc etc), then after that the aluminum oxide particles will start to come into play?
what I’ve read from this thread so far is that there aren’t many non-glass, electronic portable vapes that have a clean airpath unless I want to invest into a FW8, Tetra p80, nomad/toad or tinymight 2. It would be nice to have something to use while in bed without getting up or using torches.
Wouldn’t certifying the facility mean the products are also certified? If not then that’s grounds for a lawsuit for false advertising at the risk of consumers health. I also read the mighty medic is the same as the mighty but has different electromagnetic shielding to not interfere with medical devices like pacemakers and it comes with extra accessories. But apparently after 5 years the medical label is no longer valid anyways.
On the other hand Vaponic has never been medically certified or vapocane or most of those glass vapes,but they have much cleaner airpath and vapopath than most.
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Yeah to get the right all glass pathway on a budget, you have to compromise somewhere usually but if you email alan@toasty-top.com you can get very cheap setup with heat island for home use at least... Portables definitely tend to cost more when you want the high quality stuff
Curious Gorilla
Sounds like something smells purple.
@El Peligroso
Apologies, I did not clarify i was refering specificaly to the Volcano, I have no experience of the other S&B products.
I do not know if there is a specific official time limit on the medical certification, i suspect not. It is probably design specific as opposed to time limited. The safety of a material over time may not be taken into account, specialy if considered consumable/replaceable eg. seals or gaskits.
Certifying the facility would be time limited, and should require re-certification periodically.
The 5 year figure is an (UK and EU?)Trading and Industry Standard for goods, or was. It is generaly unknown and ignored, so peole can be sold extended warranties, and if your device breaks if the company does not wish to honour the five year rule you can take them to court at vast expense of money and time to your self. Which is why they can ignore it. Although if you speak to them, some companies may honour it.
From their website....."STORZ & BICKEL GmbH guarantees end customers (hereinafter referred to as “Customer”) in accordance with the following provisions that the product (MIGHTY+, CRAFTY+, VOLCANO HYBRID, VOLCANO CLASSIC, PLENTY) that has been delivered to the customer is free from defects in material, of manufacturing or construction faults within the time period of three (3) years (MIGHTY, CRAFTY = two (2) years) from the date of delivery (warranty period)." So yes, Storz and Bickel would like you to replace your device every 2 or 3 years.
From the volcano manual....
"In case of soiling, only clean the hous-
ing with a damp, soft cloth, if neces-
sary together with a cleaning agent
(soapy water). Please do not use any
hard or abrasive implements, such as
steel wool, metal brushes, needles, in-
apppropriate plastic sponges, etc., nor
any aggressive cleaning agents."
Nothing about needing to clean inside it or how to do it. Or does it get blown clean by the air pump? There is this tho..
"Do not open the Hot Air Gen-
erator! Without special tools
and specialized knowledge,
any attempt to open the device will
cause damage to it. Such an attempt
will invalidate the warranty claim." Because only storz and bickel can use screwdrivers....
Apologies, I did not clarify i was refering specificaly to the Volcano, I have no experience of the other S&B products.
I do not know if there is a specific official time limit on the medical certification, i suspect not. It is probably design specific as opposed to time limited. The safety of a material over time may not be taken into account, specialy if considered consumable/replaceable eg. seals or gaskits.
Certifying the facility would be time limited, and should require re-certification periodically.
The 5 year figure is an (UK and EU?)Trading and Industry Standard for goods, or was. It is generaly unknown and ignored, so peole can be sold extended warranties, and if your device breaks if the company does not wish to honour the five year rule you can take them to court at vast expense of money and time to your self. Which is why they can ignore it. Although if you speak to them, some companies may honour it.
From their website....."STORZ & BICKEL GmbH guarantees end customers (hereinafter referred to as “Customer”) in accordance with the following provisions that the product (MIGHTY+, CRAFTY+, VOLCANO HYBRID, VOLCANO CLASSIC, PLENTY) that has been delivered to the customer is free from defects in material, of manufacturing or construction faults within the time period of three (3) years (MIGHTY, CRAFTY = two (2) years) from the date of delivery (warranty period)." So yes, Storz and Bickel would like you to replace your device every 2 or 3 years.
From the volcano manual....
"In case of soiling, only clean the hous-
ing with a damp, soft cloth, if neces-
sary together with a cleaning agent
(soapy water). Please do not use any
hard or abrasive implements, such as
steel wool, metal brushes, needles, in-
apppropriate plastic sponges, etc., nor
any aggressive cleaning agents."
Nothing about needing to clean inside it or how to do it. Or does it get blown clean by the air pump? There is this tho..
"Do not open the Hot Air Gen-
erator! Without special tools
and specialized knowledge,
any attempt to open the device will
cause damage to it. Such an attempt
will invalidate the warranty claim." Because only storz and bickel can use screwdrivers....
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El Peligroso
Well-Known Member
Yeah this will be primarily used for someone who is confined to their bed. Glass is not really preferred bc it can break easily. I’m leaning towards a tiny might 2 w/ titanium stem. I was waiting for the AVLP rep to give a full rundown on the vapor path.
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
You don't have to get glass with a heat island, steel core, steel and paper stems...
El Peligroso
Well-Known Member
Interesting. How is the wait time for a heat island?
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Email him and ask, he usually has basic units in stock ready to send out...
El Peligroso
Well-Known Member
Is this similar to a dynavap where the end will be hot? I ask because the user will really not have much faculty wrt to dexterity and might burn themselves
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Not like a dynavap, but just like TM, the glass stem is going to be hot after a bowl has heat through it... Log Vapes do have a hot center core, but it is surrounded by a wood shield. If you use paper stems they won't get hot...
hinglemccringleberry
Well-Known Member
The rings on the DV tip are not exposed to the vapor traveling down the path. I guess a tiny portion of the fresh air is on the stems with an airport hole when you're drawing with the hole open, but the vapor itself is not.
The DV airpath is just as clean as the Vaponic, it's just titanium (or steel) instead of glass.
If we really want to nitpick we could say that all electric convection vapes and convection/conduction hybrid vapes are impure because the heaters are "made of materials that contain trace amounts of impurities when heated up and they go right down the vapor path into your lungs"...I'm not saying that's true, it's more of a conceptual argument.
But with a DV or Vaponic, or any pure conduction vape with an isolated airpath, that concept doesn't even exist.
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Curious Gorilla
Sounds like something smells purple.
What about something with a whip that could sit on a side table or tray?
staircase slight of hand
Well-Known Member
Could you provide any info on what these regulations you’re referring to? I’m not finding anything past or present that matches what you describe.
This part just sounds like a standard warranty period, rather than something to do with degrading product safety, and doesn’t suggest to me that the devices should be replaced at least every three years:
Abysmal Vapor
Supersniffer 2000 - robot fart detection device
Pure airpath vapes do exist.
I can continue with coil powered vapes and many other that have only Stainless/titanium and glass in the airpath.
Anyway there are plenty enough, someday the standard will be no wires in the airpath. Or at least make them bare and stainless steel like in the MUSA V1 concept.
And yes Dynavap has exposed o-ring . If you arent careful you can melt it and inhale the offgas,i imagine with 1200C torch is not impossible to happen. With vaponic,but you will be burning your fingers ,before the silicone thingie gets hot,also Vapocane concept doesnt have any silicone or else. Anyway i think i dropped enough examples, not really looking to get into arguements with other people,but i stand behind my claims ,haha. We can always agree to disagree on what makes you feel safe or not.
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Anyway there are plenty enough, someday the standard will be no wires in the airpath. Or at least make them bare and stainless steel like in the MUSA V1 concept.
And yes Dynavap has exposed o-ring . If you arent careful you can melt it and inhale the offgas,i imagine with 1200C torch is not impossible to happen. With vaponic,but you will be burning your fingers ,before the silicone thingie gets hot,also Vapocane concept doesnt have any silicone or else. Anyway i think i dropped enough examples, not really looking to get into arguements with other people,but i stand behind my claims ,haha. We can always agree to disagree on what makes you feel safe or not.
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El Peligroso
Well-Known Member
Ah I see. The loading/unloading will not be done by the user, so exposed hotspots during use is a concern.
Siebter
Less soul, more mind
Nope. You can easily test your idea by cleaning a used Dynavap; you will find reclaim for example in the condenser or the tip, but the o rings will be clean because they don't have any contact with vapor at all. The material of the o rings (forgot its name) is created for safe high temp usage too, they're not silicone or just some sort of rubber.
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
I don't think I really understand what you're saying at all, the loading and unloading is easy, you suck the herb into the basket screen of the stem like a straw, the same way you will then take your hit once you put that straw over the heating element... Unloading is also as easy as blowing it out, you can kill the bowl in one hit and then take another with small doses and no stirring... So I'm not sure exactly what you mean by exposed hot spots where how they will be a problem
hinglemccringleberry
Well-Known Member
You're kidding right? You'd have to point your torch directly at the top of the stem to make that happen, missing the heating zone (the cap) by a mile.
If you're not careful you can also slice your finger when cutting an apple on a cutting board.
Been running the same DV tip for 6 years now, used torches and IH's and the O-rings are still in new condition. They haven't even lost their shape.
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