Silver420Surfer
Downward spiral
Just finished this weeks episode.
HOLY. SHIT.
HOLY. SHIT.
Where are the Game of Throne fans?
- Thread starter Nbajunkie
- Start date
Vicki
Herbal Alchemist
Just finished this weeks episode.
HOLY. SHIT.
I know, isn't it great!!!! I want to throw a party!!
arf777
No longer dogless
Only if you didn't READ THE BOOKS.
Why are people acting surprised? The book the Red Wedding is from has been out for YEARS. It's like being surprised by the end of Lord of the Rings.
But I sometimes feel like this [EDIT - the USA] has become an almost illiterate country.
Vicki
Herbal Alchemist
I'm not illiterate, and I have read and still do read a lot of books. I just never felt like reading these books. People could be like me, and that is why they are surprised.
arf777
No longer dogless
Why would you watch a tv show or movie from a best-selling book or series of books and not read the books? I have only done that once in my entire life (Catch-22) and as soon as I read the book I wished I hadn't seen the movie beforehand. But I am an obsessive reader.
Gonzo
Slightly Stoopid
Exactly Vicki. I read every day but have never read these books or Lord of the Rings. Just not my taste.
@arf777 For entertainment. I started watching GOT because I usually like HBO series. I actually did not even know about the books until after first watching the series. This Genre of books just isn't appealing to some people.
That is not a knock on that genre, just different things appeal to different people.
Vicki
Herbal Alchemist
Lots of reasons, i.e.-time constraints, being chronically ill, etc.
Because GRRM is a horrible writer but the acting and cinematography for GoT is worth watching.
I've been a voracious reader all my life and especially of SF and fantasy. There was a time when I was a kid that you could realistically read every SF&F novel published, and I did. There are probably a hundred fantasy writers that I would rank ahead of GRRM. Since I read his early novels, I knew better than to read GoT even after I got interested in the TV series.
There are about a billion books out there. I read quite a bit( although not so much the last few years.) I am also a published journalist for the last 7 years so I am far from illiterate. I stumbled onto GoT season 1 probably from a lead-in from another show. Never heard of the books at the time.
lwien
Well-Known Member
To add to the various reasons given above, for me, I have ADD and have a very hard time reading books. It's extremely hard for me to concentrate long enough to comprehend what it is that I am reading. Hell, I even have a tough time following all the story lines on the TV series.
Your comment of, "Why are people acting surprised? The book the Red Wedding is from has been out for YEARS. It's like being surprised by the end of Lord of the Rings.", is a rather myopic statement, eh, for it implies that someone is, hmmmm, how to say this.........substandard if they watch a film without reading the books. I may have ADD, but I certainly try to be as open to new ideas and as empathetic as I possibly can, for the simple truth is not everyone reads recreationally, and that surely doesn't make them, as you say.....part of an illiterate country.
And has been stated above, even for those that do read recreationally, why should one assume that just because they do, that they "should" read the books before they watch it in a movie or TV.
It's all kind of a..........if you don't do it the way I do it, you are either illiterate or..........wrong.
djonkoman
Well-Known Member
so speaking about the last episode, was I the only one that saw a plot/murder in it instead of an accident? the few reactions I've read/heard about it are all related to actual choking, but when I watched it I immediatly suspected a plot, by the tyrrels(don't know if that's how you write the name), assisted by the joker-guy, and possibly that younger-brother-of-family-that-wants-revenge-on-lannisters.
especially the remark by that lady tyrrel made me think something was going to happen, and selectively poisoning a target seems like the tyrrels' style(as opposed to openly killing everyone present with weapons, wich is clearly the lannisters' style)
(I think the pie was poisoned, not the wine as the former-queen thought)
It's not clear at all what killed him. I doubt the Tyrells did it, however, because they've just lost their grasp on the throne. They needed a son before they could safely remove Joffrey. Side point: something drastic has to happen, because I can't see them suddenly putting a character on the throne (Tommen) who's had maybe five lines in the entire series.
I don't think it was a poisoned pie because the pie was intended to be shared. That leaves either choking or poisoned wine. Assuming it was murder, I am pretty sure it wasn't Tyrion or Sansa even though both of them handled his wine cup. It was suspicious that Dontos showed up and got Sanasa out of there, so I'm going with the idea that he had something to do with it. I also suspect the new guy Oberyn. Honestly, WTF? Guy shows up and says he wants revenge on the Lannisters and everyone kind of smiles and nods.
Silver420Surfer
Downward spiral
What about Queen regent Cersi yelling at the old man who is on the council? I believe she threatened his life then told him to go to the kitchen to tell the workers to give the leftovers to the dogs. He is the one who has the nightshade and other "medicines". My guess is he had something to do with it. Plus he acts all old, but in the one episode when he was with a whore, he jumped up and stood tall and stretched, not acting at all like we usually see him. Sneaky old dude.
Rizzalso
Well-Known Member
For anybody who wants to know how it actually happened:
http://imgur.com/gallery/2DtPH
Just know that there are no spoilers, because finding out who did it has no impact on the story. It already happened, this is just the explanation.
http://imgur.com/gallery/2DtPH
Just know that there are no spoilers, because finding out who did it has no impact on the story. It already happened, this is just the explanation.
Deadshort480
We're here to fuck shit up.
This has always been the way it was discussed about happening in the books.
First of all, I don't understand how finding out who did it has no impact on the story. That implies it was murder, which I have no trouble accepting, but then how could the identity of the murderer not matter?
So not being obsessive about spoilers, I had a look. If that is truly how it happened then GRRM is a much worse writer than I ever imagined. I'm beginning to think he wrote the Dexter finale.
arf777
No longer dogless
I agree Martin is not a master of fantasy by a long shot - I far prefer his old short SF, some of which is brilliant. And I have never recommended the books to anyone who wasn't into the TV show, and never would.
I am chronically ill and have ADHD. Not sure what either have to do with reading (unless one has an illness directly related to sight, concentration, reading comprehension, or holding a book, which I know from family members is a nightmare to live through). For the ADHD, I read a half dozen books at once, switch when the ADHD kicks in. Eyes are getting bad, so I sometimes let my Kindle read to me - built into a lot of ebooks - and own a lot of Audible.
And I certainly think the show is well made, mostly great casting and good cinematography. But so much truly genius fantasy has never been made into film or TV at all - Moorcock's Elric novels and most of Lord Dunsany come to mind - that I don't get why HBO did this one.
Even Dinklage, on the daily show, pointed out that anyone who is really into it could just read the books to see what happens next. And Stewart replied by asking what country he thought he was in.
And I work with many, many GoT TV fans who have told me (and the other reading geeks at work) they haven't read the books because they don't read for anything but work, PERIOD. No reading for entertainment for personal interest. That is what I meant by this country becoming more illiterate. And this is at a law firm, where everybody reads and writes for a living.
I retract this, because in fact this is the sort of thing they do all the time.
This proposed explanation of how Joffrey died is outrageously ridiculous so I want to know if it is speculation or is actually how it is written in the books. I'm putting the rest in spoiler tags because I don't want to upset anyone, so please put your answer in spoiler tags too.
First of all, someone will have to explain what motive Olyenna would have for murdering Joffrey. Since he never consumated his marriage, they can't even get Margaery pregnant and pretend she's carrying the heir, so the Tyrells lose their grasp on the throne. I don't care how horrible Olyenna thought Joffrey was, I don't see how she would think the timing was right to kill him before they could at least fake an heir.
Second, why would they use a jewel from the necklace Dontos gave Sansa as a way to introduce the poison? How would they know she would wear it? Where's the connection between Dontos and the Tyrells? (Not that that would bother GRRM.) Was it a magical gem that is not only poisonous but also disappears when it is dropped in wine? Did Olyenna just spot it, realize it was exactly such a magical gem, and decide on the spur of the moment to off Joffrey?
I find the whole thing ludicrous. I have to conclude that the "explanation" is just one big troll for the non-bookwalkers.
Second, why would they use a jewel from the necklace Dontos gave Sansa as a way to introduce the poison? How would they know she would wear it? Where's the connection between Dontos and the Tyrells? (Not that that would bother GRRM.) Was it a magical gem that is not only poisonous but also disappears when it is dropped in wine? Did Olyenna just spot it, realize it was exactly such a magical gem, and decide on the spur of the moment to off Joffrey?
I find the whole thing ludicrous. I have to conclude that the "explanation" is just one big troll for the non-bookwalkers.
Deadshort480
We're here to fuck shit up.
Hopefully, this will help a bit.
The way it actually happens and who does what is all conjecture from readers. There is a larger plot behind this one that is revealed later in the books, but it is never exactly stated who slipped Joffrey the poison. This larger plot includes a few different parties.
In the books Dantos forms a deeper relationship with Sansa. He uses this relationship to offer her a hair net of jewels that he makes her promise she will wear at Joffrey's wedding. This hair net was put into play by Olenna Tyrell. One of the jewels is actually a solidified form of a poison called The Strangler which dissolves instantly in liquids and kills just as rapidly.
The Tyrells know that Joffrey is a monster and also know that the Lannisters need them so with Joffrey the Terrible out of the way it is almost certain that they will marry Margory and a Tommen to keep the houses united. Tommen, being a young boy, would be much easier for the Tyrells to control.
In the books Dantos forms a deeper relationship with Sansa. He uses this relationship to offer her a hair net of jewels that he makes her promise she will wear at Joffrey's wedding. This hair net was put into play by Olenna Tyrell. One of the jewels is actually a solidified form of a poison called The Strangler which dissolves instantly in liquids and kills just as rapidly.
The Tyrells know that Joffrey is a monster and also know that the Lannisters need them so with Joffrey the Terrible out of the way it is almost certain that they will marry Margory and a Tommen to keep the houses united. Tommen, being a young boy, would be much easier for the Tyrells to control.