What's the Real Reason The Feds Want to Keep Us Away from Education?

[VWFringe]

I keep hearing about taking in the larger picture, regarding policies being issued and followed

It seems incredible the Federal Government has been able to push policies down to the local level which pretty much go directly against the people living in those areas, or at least the ones who've chosen to smoke pot.

Any student caught on or off school grounds is pushed out of the educational system

Any college student, the same

People who go to jail for it aren't eligible for school loans for the rest of their life

So, am I reading this wrong? It really seems that over-all they want us to remain uneducated, so we can't make our demands heard. Is that about it?

ps: in case you think this is crazy, remember the presidential order Bush signed into law that states if any power on Earth seems as if they might become as powerful as the United States, it's our position that we will take pre-emptive action to avoid that coming to pass. It's the law now that we'll start dropping bombs just because they're getting too big for us to take on. How fucked up is that?

 

[Frederick McGuire]

IMO, this looks to me like one of those things that's better explained by incompetency than an evil master plan.

To me it looks like
"weed is a drug,
Drugs are bad, mmmkay?
We're gonna ban them, cuz they're bad, mmmkay?
Crap, people are still taking these bad drugs, just keep adding penalties, whatever you want, just make it bad for people if they do drugs. "

 

[VWFringe]

if it were only that easy we'd see the white's proportionately represented in the prisons, but we don't, so sorry, something else is going on.

And I believe it has to do with people of color and people with ADHD people being marginalized.

I believe the dominant narrative we are shown on television is pretty much what you've described, but I don't accept that as a reflection of the people's will, it's just advertising to cover up what's really going on.

Prove it for yourself, look at how the media reported Prop 19, then see that about half the voters approved it. Wide fuckin' gap between what the media says and what people really think, but we're taught to never question the independant and liberal media, who are neither. You can reverse engineer any story on the news to see the spin, just pick any story, then research it, and you'll either find controversy they were asked to apologize for, or some poor guy who acted out and did something we don't like and they want us to fry him (be more punitive than we already are).

 

[VWFringe]

Besides, if they're just punishing people for doing drugs, why remove them from the educational system and set up road-blocks for later in life? Why not just met out a suitable punishment and let that be it, instead of attaching it to road blocks later in life?

Here's how it looks to me:
Oh, you poor baby, you don't feel so well? here, pay us everything you make and our medicine will help.
Oh, you want to get your own medicine? No, No, No, bad boy, you go stand in the corner for six months, no one year, no two years, hell aren't you ever gonna settle down?
And now that you're finally out, you no longer are eligible for food stamps or school loans or anything really, didn't you understand that was gonna happen before you decided to follow your own body's needs instead of society's laws? (Laws created by the rich to supress the poor, or another way of saying that is our government protecting the business interests of big pharma and the conservatives)

They got the public schools to kick kids out for smoking pot way back in 1970 by creating the Safer Schools Program. Now every school in America is afraid of losing critical funding if they even allow one student who smokes pot to stay in school.

That's how it seems to me.

 

[Frederick McGuire]

Sorry, I'm in Australia, so a lot of my impressions of American media come from what I see on the Colbert report
I will fully agree that the media has its own interests, but I was mainly trying to express that IMO the government isn't trying to stop stoners being educated.

It's only tangentially related, but I recently watched the documentary Waiting For Superman.
The message I got from that movie was "the education system is FUCKED, but no one is trying to fuck it up, everyone is trying to help, and that isn't helpful."

It's different because I don't think that everyone is trying to help, but I don't think as nefarious as you presented in the op.

So I guess my view is that it's mostly a bunch of seperate bodies doing their best to stop people doing "drugs" and less a unified effort by everyone with power to oppress stoners.

Edit:
I posted that before the 2nd response

Besides, if they're just punishing people for doing drugs, why remove them from the educational system and set up road-blocks for later in life? Why not just met out a suitable punishment and let that be it, instead of attaching it to road blocks later in life?

Because that's not how things seem to work.
To the best of my understanding, the death penalty doesnt seem to be a deterrent from people committing murder, but some of the states over there still seem pretty gung-ho on executing people. (I'm just using this as an example - lets not turn this into a death panalty debate)

 

[Nycdeisel]

I do think they fear us. I mean they had more on Marc Emerys head then for some one who we knew as a terrorist. Theres just so much going on RIGHT NOW. I dig your political threads lately, Fringe

 

[Tweak]

From what I've seen on this topic, the policy has changed. They will take your financial aid if you are an active student who is caught. They take your assistance and then make you pay back all they have given you.

Either way, your fuckT. You have to pay for the crime twice, ridiculous.

 

[HuskerMath]

From what I've seen on this topic, the policy has changed. They will take your financial aid if you are an active student who is caught. They take your assistance and then make you pay back all they have given you.

Either way, your fuckT. You have to pay for the crime twice, ridiculous.

I can confirm that this is true (the first part, at least), but there's actually more to it than that.

If you are caught, yes, all of your aid will immediately be revoked - they will let you finish out the semester you are currently in, but you will not get another dispersement through FAFSA the next semester, and if you try to sign up again the next year, not only will you not get it, but they will actually charge you for wasting their time. Most people think that you have to start paying back immediately after this, but that is very false. Just like all the other loans before you were caught, you have six months AFTER you finish your degree before you have to start paying. Note that if you start a new degree, this is null, and you will have to pay six months after the end of that degree. In short, no, you're not being charged for the crime twice, not by a long shot. You DO NOT have to pay back grants, even if you were caught, and it's not like they revoke credits you earned through the loans they revoke. They simply won't give you any more money, loans or otherwise. Also note that this is a lifetime sentence - unless laws are changed, if you try to go back to school fifty years from now, you still can't get loans or grants. However, there is an appeal process, but I've never heard of anyone winning.

Source:
Employment at a university for several years as a TA. Every so often I have students come to me with this problem, and unfortunately, there is no solution. As Tweak said, you're pretty much screwed.

 

[Darth Vapor]

Yeah Im a student and if you get caught with anything, your loan disbursement ends, any subsidized loans become unsubsidized and the interest rates triples. Not to mention, the option to differ payments and interest until after graduation ends too. But thats if you're CONVICTED, which -if you're in law school like me, you know- is not the same as getting caught.

Idk, I tend to think that MJ is not the main cause for concern in the drug world anymore. I dont think the government fears "highly educated stoners", because any government official who truly believes that MJ is a dangerous substance would disagree with the assumption that a stoner could ever be 'highly educated.' In 2010 the Fed started buying student loans from Sallie/Freddie so to protect its economic interests, the government must ensure it is not loaning money to retarded potheads or 26 year-old-mdma-dealers-who-still-live-with-mom.

To answer the original question... the issue Fringe is talking about is called cross-sanctioning, a way that the Federal government coerces lower governments to follow its policies by refusing to fund its highways, education systems etc. (You may recognize the word sanctions, as in 'economic santions' that the Fed levied against Iran and N. Korea to prevent nuclear proliferation. Foreigners note - thats also how we treat EACH OTHER...) Just think: where does the fed get off deciding that ALL states should have a min drinking age of 21? In 1987, the Court ruled that anything-in this case underage drinking but in our case blowing down- could be related to 'General Welfare' which the constitution grants full authority to the Fed to protect. This gives it the right to extort states and localities to do its bidding. The only state that ignores such threats is Nevada, who can afford to deny federal funds through gambling revenue. Thats why drinking/gambling is 18 there, and whore-mongering is legal...

But I digress. This isnt a case of someone dropping the ball or a bunch of dudes scheming to control the world either- our system has evolved this way for over two hundred years. The federal government has had little power for most of our history and has been fighting desperately to empower itself via the Supreme Court, who is the only body capable of empowering it. Thats why I choose to become a lawyer, so I can use the judicial channel-the only one capable of creating change-to help reverse our ass-backwards policy.

 

[djonkoman]

sounds fucked up, really glad we don't have that here, or else I would be kicked out of highschool in the 3rd or 4th year(I wasn't secretive at all about smoking, and some of my teachers also knew)

 

[CHEI]

the federal government has politicans with interests in big pharma. They'd much rather you be taking one of their synthetic drugs rather than your herbal medicinal cannabis. I'd say the feds aren't afraid but rather they'd prefer it if you were locked in one of their psychiatric institutions. In these places the FORCE you to take pills. These are the same pills they encourage you to take for an undisclosed amount of time afterwards.

 

[weedemon]

i think the government is afraid of educated opposition in general not just stoners.

i feel the system is (or at least was when i went though public school) designed to deter creative thinking in several ways.

1. schoolyard bullying of nerd, geeks, dorks, etc... it isn`t cool to be smart and you pay a price for displaying it.

2. the system itself didn`t teach me how to think for myself (and i still fall into conditioned types of thinking today after being aware of it! it`s hard to break) the system instead taught me how to memorize the facts and regurgitate them. now knowing facts are good things. no argument there. but who decided what facts are true? history is remembered by the victors and facts are set as they recall them...

i bet you can think of more too.

 

[crawdad]

the control freaks of this world likely don't fear informed people, they just don't want you being loud about it....or else.

 

[jackmormon]

Less knowledge = more obedience

 

[Venomous]

I was watching nancy grace last night I think and it was brought up, the avg student who graduates college, owes a minimum of $25k In student loans and avg is roughly $75k. Then this dweeb goes on about how everything under a chap 11or 13 bk is protected BUT student loans.

The amount of outstanding student loans is over a trillion dollars and is a record. The price of education has skyrocketed in the last 10 yrs and Those with masters degrees aren't even breaking the $75k/yr barrier. There seems to be something seriously wrong here.

 

[CHEI]

There seems to be something seriously wrong here

Becoming successful in this country (USA) has become a paradox I feel (maybe its just me). The population in this country in has tripled since 1980. Also we began diplomatic relations with (communist) china in 1979. Yet we still don't trade with Cuba. Why? Because there is too much $ in it for the rich. Most people aren't geniuses and need a basic ways to make a living but no there only option is to work for these rich stock/share holders and corporate execs selling these products from third world countries. It's causing ecological and economical instability.

In this article it says last year we owed china $300 Billion. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-trade-deficit-hits-52-133525474.html

Edit - Add

Until we put more money into green and domestic businesses we won't see the increase in quality of life and in happiness amongst the general population that is so greatly needed. Obama doesn't seem to be doing much about it. I watched the last state of the union and little was said about expanding such businesses.

In california luckily quality produce/food is available but at higher costs than they should be. I do see prices going up on many items. Of course a highly processed/industrialized and much unhealthier alternative is most likely available at a fraction of the cost.

 

[Venomous]

China holds roughly 8% of the us's debt... That isn't good. Middle eastern countries hold a little bit more. Look at apple corp, they refuse to pay taxes and hold all of their 100 billion dollar profits offshore. Yet Obama praises them... Am I the only one who finds this extremely disturbing? Our whole system is fucked and it needs to change. Education is being compromised and is always the first to be cut during budget balancing. I'm not sure how much you read up On politics, but there was a good named Tom DeLay. This guy wanted to dismantle every board in th gov... Whether it was the board of education, dept of energy, etc. wasn't until he became house majority leader did his views change.. Only because of the money being filtered through is pockets.

Here in CA we have an education crisis on our hands... They continue to cut education left and right, yet give illegal aliens a dream act with free college.. Umm, wtf?

 

[Qbit]

Becoming successful in this country (USA) has become a paradox I feel (maybe its just me). The population in this country in has tripled since 1980.

The US population has grown in that time, but it certainly hasn't tripled:

1980 US Census = 226,545,805

Census.gov US population clock = 313,249,056

 

[GatorJC]

I'm inclined to believe that the government fears educated people in general, not just stoners...

 

[weedemon]

i feel like i read that somewhere...

 

[Tea Party]

The government needs to quit funding college education completely. There are way to many young people going to college for no other reason other than their commie high school teachers tell them they will make $80k a year after they graduate. Many of these students don't even get a worthwhile degree and end up with a mountain of debt.

This will never happen though because democrats love universities and continue to funnel money to them in the form of unlimited loans. The universities know this and can just continually raise their prices because they know the kids will easily get the funding.

If the government would quit sloshing tax payer dollars around the price would drop like a fucking rock as less people would go and the schools would have to lower prices.

Banks should issue student loans. Those that apply for the loans should be judged on gpa & the degree they plan on getting.

Even in the midst of the recession my university was spending money in a spoiled bitch fashion. tearing down brick dorms to build new one out of particle board.

There are plenty of careers out there that do not require college education. I believe students should work for a few years then go get more education.

 

[WatTyler]

no other reason other than their commie high school teachers tell them they will make $80k a year after they graduate.

Well they're great 'commie' teachers that encourage their pupils to hunt such high salaries. A real commitment to an ideology! I think actually the 'commie' teacher would advocate working in the fields and factories.

I blame greed and capitalism and a desire for self betterment of the individual. It works productively, but not perfectly and a surplus of skills is one of the unintended consequences.

You can't tell me there are too many people being educated (although I could agree they're not always being educated in the most relevant or useful fields, and maybe too many for given vacancies in the current economy- but that's a different issue). Once upon a time it was a real personal advantage to be able to read. Many would've made the same arguments about it's redundancy in certain walks of life..... but as a larger society and economy we've benefited immensely from making these skills universal. There also the aspect of increasing the pool from which to draw talent. I think the same applies to access to higher education. As there's more than ever to learn, the trend is for education to take longer... before we left school at 14, now it's more like 18. Soon it will likely be 20's, and that's not a bad thing IMO and should be encouraged. It means as a society we're becoming more knowledgeable, which does in turn make it harder for a government to hoodwink it's citizens.

I suppose it all depends how far your horizons extend and whether you're looking for immediate economic benefits to the individual, or to wider progress, both social and economic. It's also far better to have a surplus of knowledge and skill in a country than a lack of it IMO. surplus= potential.

But we have a very different popular view here on this side of the Atlantic, or the UK at least; I think access to education is seen as more of a right for anyone with the ability. Students in Scotland still get their university education completely for free (the way it should be), although in England students can now be charged up to £9000 pa, which is getting comparable with the US system I think- except the government regulates the maximum that the universities can charge to domestic students, and offers loans to all. Still, it's not been a popular move. I'd prioritise higher education over nuclear submarine capacities my gov't disagrees

 

[CHEI]

All you have to do is look around society to see what its doing to us. The feds just want us to keep quiet and keep going to work and to buy things that are the most mass produced leaving higher quality product available for the wealthy. The problem is the cost of goods/education is rising and people are noticing. The Occupy movement that took place recently shows how the state of things REALLY are.

 

[Tycho's nose]

I'm not so sure the government's really playing that nefarious of a role here. The old ladies and gents that tend to make these decisions probably still have a hell of a bias towards marijuana and hallucinogens.
These items in reality are illegal drugs so i guess the idea is that if your taking drugs you probably don't care about your education, which is obviously B.S. but it's nearly impossible for some of these old folks to change there views mainly from there own bias or the stand points of there supporters.

 

[Venomous]

A Prime example of how old generations think, let's look at AA for example. They won't promote through any social networking or Internet. Infact these old people are trying to get AA to even ban any kind of media exposure. I went to a meeting to discuss this with the people that they will hurt AA in the future. Generations today use social networking and it's just a matter of time before AA will be left to its own demise. There's nothing wrong with opening new doors. However these old people are very shrewd and think their anonymity will be compromised. Its funny, you can walk into any meeting and see their faces and sit down without question. Where's the anonymity? A real cose friend of mine is A recovery alcoholic and has tried to expand their reach to the younger generation. Talk about roadblock city. Marijuana acceptance seems to run this same course.