What happened to relativity?
- Thread starter Calvin
- Start date
mistergyro
Well-Known Member
nice link
t-dub
Vapor Sloth
It could be a game changer that's for sure. Einstein, I believe, was correct in his thought that our speed through 3 dimensional space when added to our speed through time does always equal the speed of light or C. They are using neutrinos for this test. Now the photon is not supposed to have mass but the neutrino has an estimated mass of no more than one-billionth of the mass of a hydrogen atom. I wonder if the difference lies in there somewhere?
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Frederick McGuire
Aggressively Loungey
I was listening to the SGU podcast about this not too long ago, and I doubt we are seeing events that don't fall within relativity.
I don't want to just parrot back everything they say, but there are a few points I think are pretty important.
There was a supernova that they measured the light and neutrinos emitted, and the difference in their arrival time was a few hours.
If the neutrinos were traveling at a speed faster than light, the difference in arrival time would have been closer to 3 years, not a few hours.
They used GPS to sync their clocks.
There is so much messed up relatavistic crap going on with satellites that there could easily be a miscalculation in there somewhere
There hasn't been an external replication of the results.
So it may be an equipment issue, or something along those lines.
If you want to check out the podcast, it's:
The Skeptics' Guide to the Universe
Ep #332 starting at 20 mins.
&
Ep #327 starting at 10 mins.
I don't want to just parrot back everything they say, but there are a few points I think are pretty important.
There was a supernova that they measured the light and neutrinos emitted, and the difference in their arrival time was a few hours.
If the neutrinos were traveling at a speed faster than light, the difference in arrival time would have been closer to 3 years, not a few hours.
They used GPS to sync their clocks.
There is so much messed up relatavistic crap going on with satellites that there could easily be a miscalculation in there somewhere
There hasn't been an external replication of the results.
So it may be an equipment issue, or something along those lines.
If you want to check out the podcast, it's:
The Skeptics' Guide to the Universe
Ep #332 starting at 20 mins.
&
Ep #327 starting at 10 mins.
t-dub
Vapor Sloth
Oh I agree Fred, GPS satellites have all kinds of special, and general, relativity going on. If they want to nail this one down they are going to have to lay a lot of fiber-optic cable. On the supernova thing, we are assuming that the photons and neutrinos left at the same time and for the neutrinos to arrive early at all, even a little bit, is a bit of a problem I think. Even if we end up increasing the speed limit of the universe a little, it will be interesting see to what ramifications it might have. Neutrinos help make up "Dark Matter" and may comprise up to 20% of the matter in the known universe. And with science, all you need is that little foot in the door, and then you can exploit it.
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Frederick McGuire
Aggressively Loungey
Sorry if I was a bit unclear with the supernova thing,
The light arrived first, then the neutrinos a few hours later.
They were generated at the same time; the actual supernova event.
The neutrinos arriving a few hours after the photons lines up with neutrinos having a speed that is very close to, but not exactly the speed of light.
If the neutrinos were moving at the speeds determined from the experiment in the op, then they would have been detected here years before the photons.
The light arrived first, then the neutrinos a few hours later.
They were generated at the same time; the actual supernova event.
The neutrinos arriving a few hours after the photons lines up with neutrinos having a speed that is very close to, but not exactly the speed of light.
If the neutrinos were moving at the speeds determined from the experiment in the op, then they would have been detected here years before the photons.
t-dub
Vapor Sloth
True. It also makes sense to me that a neutrino would be slower since it has some mass to slow it down. However, the artificial pulse beams of neutrinos they are making/firing at CERN might be demonstrating a previously unobserved phenomena. It will be interesting to see if they find the Higgs Boson and confirm the standard model. Looks like they "think" they might be close.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/dec/13/scientists-higgs-boson-god-particle?newsfeed=true
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/dec/13/scientists-higgs-boson-god-particle?newsfeed=true
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