What causes harsh hits?

[Green420]

I'm using a goo roo small inline with a dynavap, and I occasionally get hits from it that burn my throat. There's also a difference between burning it and harsh hits, they're not necessarily the same thing. I don't know why this happens, considering it passes through water before reaching my throat. Why does it happen?

 

[kellya86]

I'm using a goo roo small inline with a dynavap, and I occasionally get hits from it that burn my throat. There's also a difference between burning it and harsh hits, they're not necessarily the same thing. I don't know why this happens, considering it passes through water before reaching my throat. Why does it happen?

Maybe the way you pack it ?? Sometimes maybe there is a void in the chamber of herb.. i find a looser pack to be harsher in dv..

Or maybe sometimes when you put the vape down some reclaim inside runs down toward oven and cools there, then next time you hit it, you get that bit of reclaim.. ??

Thats all i got...

 

[AlphaDeltaF1]

For me harsh hits from the dyna over extracted. If not the whole bowl maybe a spot of nearly carbonized flower (not combusted however). Could also have to do with the moisture content of your material?

second or third hit is usually more harsh for me. But I also extract all my Dyna bowls in one heat cycle these days…

 

[Farid]

Assuming the material is the same, imo the variable with the biggest impact is how you inhale. Inhaling direct to your lungs, with the vapor making extended contact with your airways will be harsher than quickly clearing a bong, or doing mouth to lung hits.

Some would say that how you heat has a bigger impact, but my experience says otherwise. Even combusting is less harsh than vaping if I smoke mouth to lung, but vape with a long direct to lung hit.

 

[Shit Snacks]

I'm using a goo roo small inline with a dynavap, and I occasionally get hits from it that burn my throat. There's also a difference between burning it and harsh hits, they're not necessarily the same thing. I don't know why this happens, considering it passes through water before reaching my throat. Why does it happen?

My dude, water is not magic, I think when I suggested you that small inline, it was because you wanted a piece with minimal filtration and high flavor? The more of that you get, the less smoothness you're going to get, usually you are achieving cool smoothness by having extra pathway, extra cooling, not necessarily the amount of water or anything like that... Of course there are factors like the vape, the temperature settings, how you inhale, your herbs, how you processed them and loaded them... But it's extremely easy to get harsh hits through water with anything, pretty much with any water piece, so it seems like maybe you need to adjust your expectations??

 

[Green420]

My dude, water is not magic, I think when I suggested you that small inline, it was because you wanted a piece with minimal filtration and high flavor? The more of that you get, the less smoothness you're going to get, usually you are achieving cool smoothness by having extra pathway, extra cooling, not necessarily the amount of water or anything like that... Of course there are factors like the vape, the temperature settings, how you inhale, your herbs, how you processed them and loaded them... But it's extremely easy to get harsh hits through water with anything, pretty much with any water piece, so it seems like maybe you need to adjust your expectations??

One of the criteria I set out for was reduced harshness, and I think I said flavor was a factor, in that I didn't want vapor completely stripped of any flavor. I like the three pieces I have, they are clearly filtering the vapor through the water, leaving resin that may have otherwise been caked in my lungs on the side of the chamber.

I guess I didn't know what to expect, having only minimal experience with vaporizers before setting out to try some. Now that I know what they are like, I can see that there's benefits and drawbacks to some designs. My expectations are certainly lowered in terms of the criteria of harshness reduction for smaller pieces, but having tried a bigger piece like the mega globe mk2 I'm convinced at this point that size matters when it comes to cooling, but takes heavier lung capacity to fill up. So it's a trade off.

 

[Shit Snacks]

One of the criteria I set out for was reduced harshness, and I think I said flavor was a factor, in that I didn't want vapor completely stripped of any flavor. I like the three pieces I have, they are clearly filtering the vapor through the water, leaving resin that may have otherwise been caked in my lungs on the side of the chamber.

I guess I didn't know what to expect, having only minimal experience with vaporizers before setting out to try some. Now that I know what they are like, I can see that there's benefits and drawbacks to some designs. My expectations are certainly lowered in terms of the criteria of harshness reduction for smaller pieces, but having tried a bigger piece like the mega globe mk2 I'm convinced at this point that size matters when it comes to cooling, but takes heavier lung capacity to fill up. So it's a trade off.

Yeah the size of the piece is also a factor with the type of vape you are using, but it's not just volume, it's pathway, so you don't need to have to fill a giant orb, but you want a nice long path, with right angle bends ideally, which is part of why I like to use s-shape dropdown adapters as they also keep things cleaner they make vapes cooler! I'd also suggest looking into the Swiss hole or fab egg style design, those can be even more effective than spikes, lot of obstruction and extra surface area for the vapor, on top of being able to put a little water in the bottom (or of course use them dry too) Finally there are modular pieces, so you can add extra mouthpiece, spiked with a hook or whatever, long whip for extra path, and even freezable glycerin filled and other type of icy cooling options for reducing harshness

 

[GoldenBud]

I'm using a goo roo small inline with a dynavap, and I occasionally get hits from it that burn my throat. There's also a difference between burning it and harsh hits, they're not necessarily the same thing. I don't know why this happens, considering it passes through water before reaching my throat. Why does it happen?

it's a lot of vapor, high temp, organic material, and our throat is not built for that... use less material and lower temp...

 

[BabyFacedFinster]

I'm using a goo roo small inline with a dynavap, and I occasionally get hits from it that burn my throat. There's also a difference between burning it and harsh hits, they're not necessarily the same thing. I don't know why this happens, considering it passes through water before reaching my throat. Why does it happen?

I have taken a break with my Dynavap stuff for a similar reason. I was having a lot of throat irritation from my DV's too, but it was also a flavor profile that I got tired of.

Regardless of torch or IH, every hit from a DV gave me this slightly roasty/caramel flavor which was quite enjoyable at first. After 1-2 hits the taste would then change to a more full roast flavor. Those flavors would often mask the other terp flavors and I got tired of it.

I have been a concentrate user for some time now, but I'll hit some flower every now and then. These days I'll reach for my enano or a Fury 2 and get a less harsh and better flavor hit than I usually get from a vapcap. YMMV

 

[Green420]

I have taken a break with my Dynavap stuff for a similar reason. I was having a lot of throat irritation from my DV's too, but it was also a flavor profile that I got tired of.

Regardless of torch or IH, every hit from a DV gave me this slightly roasty/caramel flavor which was quite enjoyable at first. After 1-2 hits the taste would then change to a more full roast flavor. Those flavors would often mask the other terp flavors and I got tired of it.

I have been a concentrate user for some time now, but I'll hit some flower every now and then. These days I'll reach for my enano or a Fury 2 and get a less harsh and better flavor hit than I usually get from a vapcap. YMMV

I just wish there was a non-electric vaporizer which had better air flow, less harsh a hit, better temperature control, and easy compatibility with all my glass pieces. I had a davinci IQ for a while, but it crapped out long ago when the stem stopped closing all the way and just falls open. My dynavap is still going strong after several years. The dynavap, in a lot of ways, is a simple and marvelously intuitive piece of engineering which lasts a really long time, and is very portable. In other ways it's total garbage which burns your weed like 5% of the time, and gives really harsh hits. Sometimes you can't tell how many times it's clicked, and doesn't stop itself from being over heated causing smoke to billow out, and has bad air flow.

I still have the dynavap because I don't want to have get another vape and just throw it out after a few years when the battery dies, or the points of mechanical failure pronounce themselves like the Davinci IQ.

 

[Shit Snacks]

I just wish there was a non-electric vaporizer which had better air flow, less harsh a hit, better temperature control, and easy compatibility with all my glass pieces. I had a davinci IQ for a while, but it crapped out long ago when the stem stopped closing all the way and just falls open. My dynavap is still going strong after several years. The dynavap, in a lot of ways, is a simple and marvelously intuitive piece of engineering which lasts a really long time, and is very portable. In other ways it's total garbage which burns your weed like 5% of the time, gives really harsh hits, sometimes you can't tell how many times it's clicked, and doesn't stop itself from being over heated causing smoke to billow out, and has bad air flow.

I still have the dynavap because I don't want to have get another vape and just throw it out after a few years when the battery dies, or the points of mechanical failure pronounce themselves like the Davinci IQ.

Sorry I forgot what other electric vaporizers you had experience with? Temp control is always a tricky thing to find perfectly with a powerful pure vape as is the mass produce industrial design style and versatile full compatibility... There are actually a lot of different options for non-electric now that would work well through water however most of them do not have actual temp control, you will have to sense things?

 

[Green420]

Sorry I forgot what other electric vaporizers you had experience with?

Just the dynavap, davinci IQ, and the Vapium Summit.

I also have a new dyna cap I could be using, it just doesn't give much vapor because it doesn't get as hot as my old one. Probably the one I'll want to stick with.

 

[Shit Snacks]

Just the dynavap, davinci IQ, and the Vapium Summit.

I also have a new dyna cap I could be using, it just doesn't give much vapor because it doesn't get as hot as my old one. Probably the one I'll want to stick with.

Think you need to grab some better vapes... Check the ask FC section, for more requests of vape suggestions, you should be able to get further than what you have tried (IQ is session conduction, I have the 2 and it's okay but not something I would have recommended and the Summit is also old session conduction if I recall correctly nothing special or interesting to me) vapcap is extremely limiting and I am not a fan personally, I have the OG glass version as a novelty, but I sold the OG Omni and titanium tip as I never had much luck with them and I don't think it is a top tier experience for vapor quality at all in my experience. I don't want to go over with the suggestions but there's a whole wide world of options that will be more enjoyable for you (with or without temp control if you go electronic) and I think there are better options to the vap cap now for no temp control non-electronic vaping (though I myself am not such a fan of that style anymore personally)

 

[Siebter]

The problem with the Dynavap is the relatively crude heating method with many parameters affecting the results, which thus often are erratic. Experienced users will intuitively learn how to avoid most problems, but especially when you want to maximize the output, it's still a bit of a ride on the dragon. Even induction heaters only help to a certain extend, though temperature controlled IHs allow much more consistency by reducing the number of affecting parameters, especially overshooting temps and uneven heating. Unfortunately they are very rare, plus they are electronic, which apparently is not your cup of tea.

I love my Dynavaps, but they're not an ideal device for flavor chasers when being used with a torch. You kinda have to be okay with a roasty flavor profile, even when not combusting at all. I think the best solution for you would be a Sticky Brick, because while the SB needs some practice to master it as well, it's much easier to get a consistent result compared to a DV.

 

[GoldenBud]

also, because you heat the DV before inhaling, i think some free radicals are being formed. and it will irritate the body more than 100% convection devices

 

[Siebter]

@GoldenBud – With all due respect, where do you get your sometimes a bit confusing info from? :-) Now I'm not an expert when it comes to the formation of free radicals, but from the little I know they are created due to heat (among other things like radiation), not by a certain heating method. And when we talk about „irritation“, those would be very long term and rather represented by things like ageing processes, oxidative stress or cell mutations leading to cancer, not so much by harsh hits. *If* that would play a role here, which I doubt. Just saying, okay?

 

[GoldenBud]

what you think happens in the 20s of heating? the bowl temperature is not 25c anymore.... it's hot, heat makes organic materials to release free radicals. even temperature of 70C will cause it

with 100% convection the hot air surprises the bowl, it doesn't have the 15-30 seconds of heating and bowl temp isn't raised up before you inhale

more time of heating = more free radicals

but you know the real answer, right? somebody needs to take a bowl after the heating, to a HPLC device, and see how much free radicals are formed. I'm sure it has more free radicals than 100% convection device.

 

[Siebter]

Again, I seriously have no idea about free radicals, just some basics. But it doesn't seem plausible that they are an issue when it comes to the topic at hand, which is „harsh hits and their reason for it“. I'm pretty sure they don't tickle our throat or stuff. :-)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but for now I think this is a derail from the original topic.

 

[GoldenBud]

I studied about free radicals in the subject of polymers...and the THC/Teprenes are also big organic molecules.... that's why you have less potent flavour with the DV too.. it's being cooked, A BIT, while you heat it... free radicals are being formed... dunno the amount, but I'm 99% sure that's what irritate the throat comparing to 100% hot air devices

the hottest part of the torch is like at temp of 1000C... it's a lot... I'm sure there are free radicals while heating... also with IH.... and the throat doesn't like it too much... that's why i prefer Ti tip... less heating until the draw...

"
Correct me if I'm wrong, but for now I think this is a derail from the original topic.
"
the throat doesn't like free radicals....

you've said it yourself, the DV bring less flavour comparing to a convection device. but it's not just that, some free radicals form while the flavour is converting to something else... the flavour is not disappearing, it's being converted to something else (in low amount comparing to the whole content)

 

[Siebter]

But free radicals are very small items, they're not like tar or smoke particles or whatever, they're molecules or even mere atoms. With a twist. They can harm us, but on a totally different level and with a very different timeline than what is discussed here. I also did not say a DV will create *less* flavor, but a different flavor. Also note that the part that is in direct contact with the flame is not the part we inhale from, plus induction heating creates much lower top temperatures (relative to the vapor output). Unless you have some kind of evidence at hand that relates to the topic @Green420 is asking about, I suggest to end this discussion here, just because it is heavily offtopic.

 

[GoldenBud]

But free radicals are very small items, they're not like tar or smoke particles or whatever, they're molecules or even mere atoms. With a twist. They can harm us, but on a totally different level and with a very different timeline than what is discussed here. I also did not say a DV will create *less* flavor, but a different flavor. Also note that the part that is in direct contact with the flame is not the part we inhale from, plus induction heating creates much lower top temperatures (relative to the vapor output). Unless you have some kind of evidence at hand that relates to the topic @Green420 is asking about, I suggest to end this discussion here, just because it is heavily offtopic.

free radicals want to react fast, they react with our throat... small molecules for sure, but very reactive.... that's the problem with them.... while you heat the DV 20 seconds or more, you will get some amount of free radicals, not 1 atom as you know ofc, but we need HPLC device ASAP to see how much. something not good for us happening in the 20s of heating.... for our throat, body, it's very reactive

we're talking about extracting 100mg of material (max) , in a temperature that is not even close to combustion temp, and still our throat burn from DV (mine too)
everything here is small while we're talking 100mg dose of weed. the free radicals are small for sure. but depends how much of them exist....


you didn't answer my question tho; what do you think is happening during the ~20 seconds of heating?

 

[Planck]

I find some terps very harsh, not sure which ones though.
Properly cured weed properly stored for a year or more is super smooth and the effects are excellent.

Have you considered a ball vape. In my experience they are a huge step up from anything else in flavor smoothness and effect. I find them very versatile covering a range from smack you to the moon too sipping 0.05 grams.

No batteries, no reason the head wouldn't last a lifetime. The coils and power supplies that are industry stand items if a coil or power supply fails. That seems pretty rare too.

 

[Ramahs]

To the OP's question...It depends, wildly.
"Harsh hits" is like spice level in foods. It depends on the person.
A harsh hit to one person may be a perfectly comfortable hit for another, and not necessarily for the same reason.

 

[howie105]

If I am trying to smooth out a hit, I look at three possibilities approaches the bud, hardware or me. Bud that is not well cured is often harsh, and some strains just have more bite, etc. Next there is the hardware; obviously some vapes just hit hotter and/or harder than others, and some folks have spent the time, money and effort to add and maintain the desired amount of cooling and filtration enhancements that compliment their vapes function. On the other end of the continuum is the minimalist approach with just the vape, a stem (most times) and the user. Being a lazy guy (less cleaning) and having cut my smoking teeth on cigarettes joints and pipes, this is my preference. The bud, vape and supporting hardware are all controlled and judged by the user who can be the factor contributing the most variables. If I can produce repeatable baseline results, then selecting changes in bud, hardware and technique are easier to manage. Sadly, if I am not careful, I tend to make a bunch of changes all at once, which makes it harder to sort out the good, bad and irrelevant choices. Going slowly and noting the changes can add up to the best hits in many cases.

 

[GoldenBud]

@Green420 please show us a photo of your buds. maybe you've got a "dry" weed from Oils, because it seems like THC is also an antioxidant. maybe your weed has more water than usual or just dry from THC hence the chlorophyll makes you cough (the ratio between chlorophyll:THC/terpz)

Neuroprotective antioxidants from marijuana - PubMed

Cannabidiol and other cannabinoids were examined as neuroprotectants in rat cortical neuron cultures exposed to toxic levels of the neurotransmitter, glutamate. The psychotropic cannabinoid receptor agonist delta 9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and cannabidiol, (a non-psychoactive constituent of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov