Weed messing with anesthesia??

[archangelz001]

…the only knock he had on weed was that it causes veins to contract and because of restricted blood flow the healing process and post-op pain MAY be extended to a small degree , luckily I had neither .

I’m a retired RN. Your doc is confused. Nicotine causes elevated BP by vasoconstriction. Cannabis does cause an elevated HR and lowered BP because it causes vasodilation.

 

[GoldenBud]

THC is fat soluble but blood has very small fat content, hence it will not cause veins to contract much, I think. If somebody vapes a lot maybe after years it worthes a shot to do a blood test and follow Liver and HDL LDL results to make sure everything is alright

But vaporizing is much safer to veins other than smoking

 

[archangelz001]

@GoldenBud I know you are well intentioned, and I don't know what your background is, but here is what really happens:

"ECS have been found to exert vasorelaxing effects in cardiovascular system which appears to be mediated by numerous pathways. Activation of CB1 receptors in mice have been shown to produce prolonged hypotension. THC can cause vasodilatation, independent of cannabinoid receptor activation, by activating transient receptor potential ankyrin type-1 (TRPA-1) channel. In addition, anandamide activates vanilloid VR1 receptors, (a known alternative target of anandamide) present on sensory nerves triggering the release of calcitonin gene-related peptide that binds to its receptors to cause vasodilatation (13). The CB-2 receptors are expressed in cardiomyocytes, coronary endothelial cells and smooth muscle cells." https://jtd.amegroups.com/article/v... vasodilatation, independent,(TRPA-1) channel.

And this is an interesting and simplified presentation on how THC affects the brain, and how it suppresses GABA so that Dopamine release is increased by the Dopamine neurons: https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/features/2018/thc/

 

[topographic]

A friend unfortunately has to have a surgery and mentioned they would have to stop with their edibles a month in advance so they could clear out their system because they were told it would mess with the anesthesia... Anyone else know anything about this?? Just curious since it was the first time I had heard of it before

In the last two years I've had three procedures that required general anesthesia. For each there was a "pre-anesthesiology" meeting where I was asked about weed and told to abstain for a few days before & after. I was asked if this would cause me trouble sleeping; I said no. (Thinking on it now, I wonder what would have happened if I'd said yes.) I followed instructions and had no problems during or after surgery.

Now all this was in a long-legal state where medical people are professionally & personally familiar with weed, patients have little reason to lie, and the weed itself is cleaner than most supermarket produce. It may be a different story elsewhere.

In any case your friend should listen to their doctor. Best of luck and quick recovery!

 

[RustyOldNail]

In any case your friend should listen to their doctor.

 

[GoldenBud]

@GoldenBud I know you are well intentioned, and I don't know what your background is, but here is what really happens:

"ECS have been found to exert vasorelaxing effects in cardiovascular system which appears to be mediated by numerous pathways. Activation of CB1 receptors in mice have been shown to produce prolonged hypotension. THC can cause vasodilatation, independent of cannabinoid receptor activation, by activating transient receptor potential ankyrin type-1 (TRPA-1) channel. In addition, anandamide activates vanilloid VR1 receptors, (a known alternative target of anandamide) present on sensory nerves triggering the release of calcitonin gene-related peptide that binds to its receptors to cause vasodilatation (13). The CB-2 receptors are expressed in cardiomyocytes, coronary endothelial cells and smooth muscle cells." https://jtd.amegroups.com/article/view/14437/html#:~:text=THC can cause vasodilatation, independent,(TRPA-1) channel.

And this is an interesting and simplified presentation on how THC affects the brain, and how it suppresses GABA so that Dopamine release is increased by the Dopamine neurons: https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/features/2018/thc/

Listen it's the first time I ever hear about a connection between THC to GABA.
I can tell you one thing: a Doctor from my country, in the field of Physiology , said that everything in "Mouse Party" is true. everything.

Mouse Party -

Mouse Party

learn.genetics.utah.edu

it works from Chrome or Firefox browsers, maybe both. I run it from Firefox..

and in "Mouse Party" they say THC is connected to Dopamine inhibitation only, not GABA.
Alcohol is connected to GABA somehow. not THC. you can move the Alcohol mouse into the chair, then Marijuana.

you know any Doctor of Physiology said the links you gave are true?
because it does interest me, but it's the first time I am hearing about it.
AFAIK , THC is just a molecule that looks almost exactly like Anandamide and replaces it. I was reading what you sent and it's interesting but it's the first time I'm seeing it so Idk if it's true....

I am a Chemical Engineer, not a Doctor of Physiology, but I can swear a Doctor of Physiology said that the "Mouse Party" is true, and it doesn't say anything about THC and GABA. Alcohol and GABA, yes.

 

[Ramahs]

All I can say is, if you have a surgery or something like that, you should just be honest with your anesthesiologist and doctor about your cannabis use. They know better than what ANY of us randos on the internets have to say.

 

[Knewt]

All I can say is, if you have a surgery or something like that, you should just be honest with your anesthesiologist and doctor about your cannabis use. They know better than what ANY of us randos on the internets have to say.

I live in a culture where where religious beliefs carry more weight than science. Most of the Dr’s that I see don’t even understand alcohol consumption, let alone medical cannabis use. Their base understanding is their religion bans it, it’s bad, period.

 

[archangelz001]

Mouse Party -

Mouse Party

learn.genetics.utah.edu

it works from Chrome or Firefox browsers, maybe both. I run it from Firefox..

and in "Mouse Party" they say THC is connected to Dopamine inhibitation only, not GABA.
Alcohol is connected to GABA somehow. not THC. you can move the Alcohol mouse into the chair, then Marijuana.

...

I am a Chemical Engineer, not a Doctor of Physiology, but I can swear a Doctor of Physiology said that the "Mouse Party" is true, and it doesn't say anything about THC and GABA. Alcohol and GABA, yes.

So your Mouse Party scenario says that "Before marijuana enters the system inhibitory neurotransmitters are active in the synapse. These neurotransmitters inhibit dopamine from being released." That inhibitory neurotransmitter is in fact GABA.

"Gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) is an amino acid that functions as the primary inhibitory neurotransmitter for the central nervous system (CNS). It functions to reduce neuronal excitability by inhibiting nerve transmission."https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK526124/#:~:text=Gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA),excitability by inhibiting nerve transmission.

From Mouse Party - THC acts just like Anandamide to "turn off inhibition and dopamine is allowed to squirt into the synapse". Moused Party is actually saying what I did, and have quoted resources for you. I think you were misunderstanding it.

for further study: https://supp.ai/i/gamma-aminobutyric-acid-tetrahydrocannabinol--thc-/C0016904-C0039663

 

[GoldenBud]

So your Mouse Party scenario says that "Before marijuana enters the system inhibitory neurotransmitters are active in the synapse. These neurotransmitters inhibit dopamine from being released." That inhibitory neurotransmitter is in fact GABA.

"Gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) is an amino acid that functions as the primary inhibitory neurotransmitter for the central nervous system (CNS). It functions to reduce neuronal excitability by inhibiting nerve transmission."https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK526124/#:~:text=Gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA),excitability by inhibiting nerve transmission.

From Mouse Party - THC acts just like Anandamide to "turn off inhibition and dopamine is allowed to squirt into the synapse". Moused Party is actually saying what I did, and have quoted resources for you. I think you were misunderstanding it.

for further study: https://supp.ai/i/gamma-aminobutyric-acid-tetrahydrocannabinol--thc-/C0016904-C0039663

understood. Anandamide/THC is like the opposite of GABA? GABA doesn't let the Dopamine being released INTO the Synapse, and Anandamide/THC let the Dopamine slide into the Synpase?

I am 103 days into my break and will try avoid reading now. I can do it next morning, I can't read anything in the evening.
I am talking about the Mouse Party. I understood the thing with inhibitory neurotransmitter = GABA from Mouse Party.

btw, so is it accepted, other than our subject, that anesthesia has nothing to do with cannabis? only maybe if it's super dose or something?
P.S
when somebody going through total anesthesia, isn't the Doctor tell him not to eat anything like 8 hours or 6 before it?
so he won't have to use the bathroom while surgery is going on? so you just can't be high from an Edible in the surgery.....

 

[Ramahs]

I live in a culture where where religious beliefs carry more weight than science. Most of the Dr’s that I see don’t even understand alcohol consumption, let alone medical cannabis use. Their base understanding is their religion bans it, it’s bad, period.

My only thought if you have quack doctors like that all over, is expose them to the most liberal news media you have. I'd be sending emails and letters to every news source I could think of (both local and abroad), and they can start stories about how these doctors should have their licenses revoked because they are practicing theology, rather than medicine.

 

[vapviking]

My only thought if you have quack doctors like that all over, is expose them to the most liberal news media you have. I'd be sending emails and letters to every news source I could think of (both local and abroad), and they can start stories about how these doctors should have their licenses revoked because they are practicing theology, rather than medicine.

Generally, yes sunshine is the best antidote for ignorance.
But in a case like @Knewt is describing, the actions you describe are as likely to get you labeled a heretic and locked up, or worse. There may not even be any "liberal news media" to write to.

 

[Knewt]

My only thought if you have quack doctors like that all over, is expose them to the most liberal news media you have. I'd be sending emails and letters to every news source I could think of (both local and abroad), and they can start stories about how these doctors should have their licenses revoked because they are practicing theology, rather than medicine.

If I had to distance myself from someone because of the crazy shit they believe there would be very few people left in my world.

The MD that I got my cannabis card from is a practicing anesthesiologist. We talked about surgery, but nothing was ever specifically mentioned about cannabis and anesthesia though.

 

[Ramahs]

Generally, yes sunshine is the best antidote for ignorance.
But in a case like @Knewt is describing, the actions you describe are as likely to get you labeled a heretic and locked up, or worse. There may not even be any "liberal news media" to write to.

Yeah, if you live in a country that does not have much church/state separation, then you may not have many options. I have friends that live in countries where they could end up dead for simply admitting to their family or friends that they are not a god believer, or are LGBTQ+, much less what the authorities would do if they received that kind of info about them.

If I had to distance myself from someone because of the crazy shit they believe there would be very few people left in my world.

I can kinda understand. When I was about 21 I left the religion I grew up in, and at that point I left every friend I'd ever had (I left pretty much everyone I knew). It was kind of a rule there that you shouldn't even talk to your own family if they left the faith. If you saw them in public (your parents, your children, whatever), then you shouldn't even smile at them or look them in the eye, lest you are condoning their sin. At that point, I started over, and eventually found new family, and I realized that blood is DEFINITELY NOT thicker than water. Family is people who act like family, rather they are related by blood or not.

 

[Madtater]

so my pharmacist colleague got back to me. This is what he sent me:

Since I’m not well versed with marijuana/procedural literature I did some digging and ASRA actually published a guideline in January which has some helpful information I think. I attached the document, Question 2 in it is what I believe your focus was, but, just some takeaways below, hope it helps. If I missed the mark on the question let me know I can dig further!



· Overall no great data to state that you must stop smoking cannabis before a procedure…No clear guidance for non-smoked cannabis routes and what to do…Biggest thing they recommend is just making sure the providers/anesthesiologist is aware you use cannabis chronically

· They recommend a bare minimum of 2hr between cannabis smoking & an elective procedure as cardiovascular complications are highest during this time frame.

· They acknowledge there are variations in literature with no great answer; 1 group recommends stopping non-essential cannabis 72hr prior to procedures while a more conservative one recommends 10 days prior to procedure.

o There was also a recent group that doesn’t recommend stopping, but just reducing to <1.5 grams/day smoked cannabis, 300 mg/day CBd oil, or 20 mg/day of THC oil

· Chronic cannabis use has some data to show increased anesthesia requirements as well as increased post-op N/V & pain

· If deciding to stop smoking; some patients that use a lot of cannabis preop may develop a withdrawal syndrome which you might have to watch for

He also sent me a PDF on this topic from the ASRA that i have not had the time to read yet. If anyone would like it, please PM me your email address and i will send it to you.

**EDIT** i am scanning the PDF currently, and one thing that jumped out to me is it states that people who partake in cannabis have a higher incidence of copd exacerbation and pneumonia (assuming this is from anesthesia intubation).**

Also, i would like to take a second and say this. While i am a medical professional, I AM NOT A DOCTOR. Do NOT take this as gospel. This is the internet after all, and 99% of the information on it is bullshit. Anyone who has serious questions about this should speak with their medical provider to ask those questions. DO NOT MAKE ANY MEDICAL DECISION WITHOUT SPEAKING TO YOUR MEDICAL PROVIDER.

Again, if anyone would like that PDF, PM me.

 

[Zagala]

Have had several colon procedures and each time i was advised ‘No Cannabis for 48 hours’ before!

 

[GoldenBud]

Have had several colon procedures and each time i was advised ‘No Cannabis for 48 hours’ before!

wow on wow. I dunno about you buddy, but when I vaped every day like 1gr+ a day, 24hours without weed and I had so much stress and headaches, maybe they say that so people won't do edibles or something stronger than "usual" smoking/vaporizing?
I couldn't fall a sleep naturally when I was without weed for 24 hours+

 

[Zagala]

It was hard and there will be another 48 hours mandatory break in August. I am in good health overall but not young anymore so I comply.

 

[Zagala]

Relevant article

Cannabis and Anesthesia | Wikileaf

Cannabis can affect anesthesia, consumers may want to discuss their consumption with healthcare practitioners when considering a procedure.

www.wikileaf.com

 

[archangelz001]

Michelle Sexton, Naturopatic Doctor, herbalist, healer, mom on Instagram: "When I first started my position in the Department of Anesthesiology at UCSD in 2017, I remember asking a room full of anesthesiologists and pain specialists whether cannabis

50 likes, 7 comments - dr.michellesextonJanuary 17, 2023 on : "When I first started my position in the Department of Anesthesiology at UCSD in 2017, I remember asking a room full of anesthesiologists ..."

www.instagram.com

 

[Haveth]

A friend unfortunately has to have a surgery and mentioned they would have to stop with their edibles a month in advance so they could clear out their system because they were told it would mess with the anesthesia... Anyone else know anything about this?? Just curious since it was the first time I had heard of it before

Yes, I do believe it does and there have been recent, factual research to prove it. I believe one study recently was in a popular journal of medicine. It is true anesthesia affects everyone differently, but generally the research has shown a larger amount of anesthesia is required for regular, constant cannabis consumers. The key words are obviously regular and constant. I would have to go back to the actual research to explain why but I do believe it is true.

 

[olivianewtonjohn]

A friend unfortunately has to have a surgery and mentioned they would have to stop with their edibles a month in advance so they could clear out their system because they were told it would mess with the anesthesia... Anyone else know anything about this?? Just curious since it was the first time I had heard of it before

Anesthesiologists consider the patient (cardiovascular issues?, lung?, etc) and the surgery (colonoscopy?, spine surgery?, heart?, etc); blend the considerations together to make a plan to safely take care of their patient. As you can imagine there is a large range of considerations depending on the surgery and patient. This information is not in the post, that being said 30 days seems like a long time and I would suggest your friend ask the anesthesiologist the reason behind this recommendation - thats what they are there for after all. Typical MJ+anesthesia concerns (not all apply to the case outlined above), higher anesthesia requirement, lung complications, increased pain, and increased risk of heart attack

I know that I've read articles that have said that it is important to discuss cannabis use with your anesthesiologist if you are going under for surgery. The stuff I read claimed that cannabis users could require enough of a significantly higher dose that neglecting to disclose cannabis use could, in worst-case-scenario, cause you to get a low enough dose that you could wake up during surgery.

I have no idea how accurate the articles I read were, or the validity of the studies they were referring to...as I never looked into it enough further to have any idea if the claims showed any validity or not.

Is anyone else aware of any studies that support this conclusion?

Yes it is possible under specific scenarios. Luckily, awareness during surgery is extremely rare. Regardless this is one of many reasons to be honest with your anesthesia team.

 

[olivianewtonjohn]

Relevant video that came out today (similar to what I said above but with more depth, also had a 72hr cessation recommendation):